Oh, for something like this in OKC...

I suppose it's one advantage of having been an old industrial town: lots of abandoned rail right-of-way and warehouses right in the middle of the city.

Milwaukee has some similar projects and it's one of the reasons I love that town so much.

http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/imjpNfYuz11H/info/Minneapolis-%20Midtown%20Greenway:%20Good%20for%20Biz,%20Good% 20for%20Bikes./

Minneapolis is always battling Portland for "most bike friendly" city and it's a big part of the reason both end up on all the best places to live lists.

Comparing old industrial cities and those bound and shaped by navigable water to plains cities like OKC is a bit unfair but there is still lots we can learn from them.

I didn't mean you were comparing, Sid.

Just that we often point to such places as inspiration (as I did with this post) without recognizing the incredible differences in the urban fabric.

Lol, did they hire a lot of extras to do those video shots??

Most definitely a different culture than here.

We have a loooooooooooooooong way to go!

Lol, did they hire a lot of extras to do those video shots??

Most definitely a different culture than here.

We have a loooooooooooooooong way to go!

I spent a few days in Minneapolis a while back and there were people walking and biking everywhere. Lots of neat downtown housing options, and great, inexpensive public transportation if you want to go farther than a bike ride.

Very cool concept . . . But did you notice, in the video, how many of the bicyclists were riding on the wrong side of the centerline and drifiting over onto the jogging/skating lane? And what about that infant in the baby trailer who wasn't wearing a helmet? =)

sidburgess,
I was in Amsterdam and they have high rise parking lots for bikes. When you cross the street, you can be run over by a bike, a streetcar, or a car/truck. Walking on the sidewalk, there is a painted bike lane and they have the right of way over pedestrians. But, I enjoyed it anyway.
C. T.

I am in Delft (Netherlands) right now and I have to say, I have never seen so many bikes running up and down the road. Here, a car is actually a rare thing in the city center! In heaven... =)

Pete,
Very nice, quite a change since I was there a few years ago. They are the perfect place for biking, lots of homes near downtown, the city probably encourages it due to limited parking. They do have work to do though, they should check out Amsterdam where there are strict laws but if the biker stays in the bike lanes, he/she rules. And as I mentioned earlier, bike parking facilities everywhere. I wish Minneapolis wasn't so cold, it's really a nice city.
C. T.

Guys, I have lived in Amsterdam for 18 years. Bikes are indeed a way of life here. There is actually a discussion about 'bike pollution' as they park literally anywhere, sometimes blocking the entrances to buildings etc.; underground bike parking garages are becoming matter of fact, and the biggest controversy just now; should the police actually give fines to the thousands of bikes that race through red lights indiscriminately? NO-ONE wears helmets (except paranoid ex-pats) and chasing tourist down who are walking on the bike paths with a loud bell is the national sport. Despite all of this, I would not have it any other way.

Growing up in OKC, I had no idea that something like this even existed; 'bikes belonged on sidewalks' or so I thought. Here, old ladies yell at you if you ride your bike on the sidewalk and not the street.

As much as I would love to think that OKC will become a bike city, I think it will not happen it my lifetime unless gasoline becomes USD 9.- per gallon..... as it is here!

It's really not fair to compare any U.S. city to any European one as they have been developed so completely different. In fact, American towns really are unique to anywhere, even similar places like Canada and Australia. Unique in they were all developed with the car first and foremost in mind.

I don't even think $10 gas would change much. Heck, it's almost $5 already and I don't see hardly any change in driving habits. People complain, maybe drive a bit less for a while, then go back to exactly what they are doing. There are still way, way more huge SUV's on the road than hybrids.

The sell in the U.S. will primarily be fun and exercise. Even here in L.A. where there are thousands and thousands of cyclists (and I know a good many of them) almost nobody uses their bike for transportation and I don't see that changing.

Even here in L.A. where there are thousands and thousands of cyclists (and I know a good many of them) almost nobody uses their bike for transportation and I don't see that changing.

I stated riding my bike for exercise and to spend time with the kids, but it didn't take me long to put two and two together. Why was I driving my car to the library and then an hour later riding my bike for exercise? So I made a lifestyle change and started riding my bike as transportation and stopped the 'exercise'. My exercise now is the result of simply living. I see people driving to the gym - I don't get it.

It's really not fair to compare any U.S. city to any European one as they have been developed so completely different. In fact, American towns really are unique to anywhere, even similar places like Canada and Australia. Unique in they were all developed with the car first and foremost in mind.

I don't even think $10 gas would change much. Heck, it's almost $5 already and I don't see hardly any change in driving habits. People complain, maybe drive a bit less for a while, then go back to exactly what they are doing. There are still way, way more huge SUV's on the road than hybrids.

The sell in the U.S. will primarily be fun and exercise. Even here in L.A. where there are thousands and thousands of cyclists (and I know a good many of them) almost nobody uses their bike for transportation and I don't see that changing.

The typical counter to your statement is "Build it, and they will come". Portland and MP/STP have demonstrated that if you lay in the infrastructure, people will use it and commute on it. It takes a bit more than throwing some bike lanes down, but that's the starting point for getting more people to commute by bike/walking. You can't get bike paths everywhere, but we can certainly do a better job than we are now.

Oh, for something like this in OKC...

I suppose it's one advantage of having been an old industrial town: lots of abandoned rail right-of-way and warehouses right in the middle of the city.

Milwaukee has some similar projects and it's one of the reasons I love that town so much.

Minneapolis' Midtown Greenway: Good... with subtitles | Amara (http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/imjpNfYuz11H/info/Minneapolis-%20Midtown%20Greenway:%20Good%20for%20Biz,%20Good% 20for%20Bikes./)WOW!!!!! What an awesome bike network. How cool it would be to have something like that in OKC.

WOW!!!! Great job OKC! I had no clue all that was going on. I do wonder though, if they're ever going to do something like the Midtown Greenway though. Maybe an expansive trail(bike and pedestrian trial separated) from lake Hefner, to the Oklahoma River, over to the adventure district and the Zoo, Cowboy museum and along I-44 to Penn Square and to the lake. As time goes, it could be expanded to Bricktown and the Capital and those areas. Also it would be really nice to see a pedestrian and bike bridge like Austin or Omaha over the River. It could tie into the "future" Velodrome, if that ever happens(which I REALLY hope does).

BTW, what ever happened to the mountain bike course that was supposedly going around the Oklahoma River? Was that set n stone or just a proposition?

Here's a nice video about the Indianapolis Cultural Trail:

The Indianapolis Cultural Trail: The Next-Gen in U.S. Protected Bike Lanes on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/68037407)


Not Minneapolis, but it's a similar idea (and the city name does end in "apolis" :) )


http://dl.dropbox.com/s/wfneix3p8f4znd0/itrail_1.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/jokx9lp9zz7cauy/itrail_2.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/a2wqov0wb4sfwg2/itrail_3.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/dr5mdpt8ygrlyzl/itrail_4.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/1t5ltz4heqznf0y/itrail_5.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/dwqgb5txoj1lgk8/itrail_6.jpg

I've always thought deleting a lane of Classen Boulevard each way would create a great opportunity for something like this.

I agree. Though with the wide median, I've often wondered if a large bike road down the very middle of Classen wouldn't also be a good solution. Something that could be lined with trees on each sides and provide nice shade and protection from traffic.

We could do both. We could do one north of 16th where there is a median and one south of 16th where this isn't one.

I need to streemix it later =)

Project #1 for MAPS 4!

You guys are spot on about Classen. Reno also needs to be added to the mix, so riders can go from Uptown to Film Row, Downtown, Bricktown, the Boathouse District, and the River. At that point, we'd be in serious business if we ever wanted to organize a proper ciclovia.

I have to admit that I'm kind of surprised. I didn't expect Minneapolis to be such a big bike city. A place like Portland I would expect because the climate is pretty moderate most of the year, but it gets pretty cold and snowy in Minnesota. They must keep those Greenways pretty clear during the winter!

I've always thought deleting a lane of Classen Boulevard each way would create a great opportunity for something like this.Classen is a nice road and fine the way it is. I hope it doesn't ever happen. Keep in mind, I would like to see a greenbelt type setup here, but not on Classen.

Classen is a nice road and fine the way it is. I hope it doesn't ever happen. Keep in mind, I would like to see a greenbelt type setup here, but not on Classen.

Why not? With the new developments in SoSA and NW Midtown...and the continued progress of Uptown and the Plaza District. It is the perfect vein for bicycle traffic to tie all that together.

Why not? With the new developments in SoSA and NW Midtown...and the continued progress of Uptown and the Plaza District. It is the perfect vein for bicycle traffic to tie all that together.I just don't think Classen should be downgraded from 6 lanes to 4 lanes. If anything, Classen needs to be redesigned keeping its six lanes and adding wide sidewalks on each side with a possible bike trail on the medians where possible that would connect to a bigger OKC bike trail that I would like to see. I would love to see a Minneapolis style Greenway here, that is something cool and amazing to me. The Cultural trail, I'm sorry, I just don't think there is anything special about it.

I just don't think Classen should be downgraded from 6 lanes to 4 lanes. If anything, Classen needs to be redesigned keeping its six lanes and adding wide sidewalks on each side with a possible bike trail on the medians where possible that would connect to a bigger OKC bike trail that I would like to see. I would love to see a Minneapolis style Greenway here, that is something cool and amazing to me. The Cultural trail, I'm sorry, I just don't think there is anything special about it.
Plupan, how often do you drive on Classen? It rarely has enough traffic to justify six lanes.

Plupan, how often do you drive on Classen? It rarely has enough traffic to justify six lanes.That's why traffic flows so smoothly on it.

That's why traffic flows so smoothly on it.

Nope, it's why traffic would still move smoothly with less lanes. If your house was in the middle of a housing addition on a six lane street and traffic moved smoothly would you think that was the reason?

Nope, it's why traffic would still move smoothly with less lanes. If your house was in the middle of a housing addition on a six lane street and traffic moved smoothly would you think that was the reason?No, but it still nice to have 6 lane arterial streets. Not sure what all the hate about them is on this board. Again, I think Classen is fine for the most part. Just needs sidewalks.

No, but it still nice to have 6 lane arterial streets. Not sure what all the hate about them is on this board. Again, I think Classen is fine for the most part. Just needs sidewalks.

It's only nice to have six lane arterial streets if they are needed and on Classen that is not the case. That isn't hate, it's just common sense.

Classen traffic would flow just as smooth with 4 lanes as it would with 6... Hardly ever see much traffic. I know 2 lane streets which carry more traffic....

Why do you constantly put words in people's mouths and "hate" on this board? Also, why do you hate OKC so much? (See what I did there?) Enough with the cheap shots from you about "this board".It's called reality, Sid. Whether you admit it or not, there are several here and mainly on pro-urban online forum boards with hatred for 6 lane streets, huge bias against suburbs, nice highways and favor mass transit over anything else. I'm not "hating" on this board or taking cheap shots either, if you think that, then I don't know what to tell you. Why you would even bring that up, I have no clue.

I'm also not putting words in peoples mouth either. I could find a bunch of posts where people speak out against 6 lane streets and say there is no need for them. Find one post where I've said I hate OKC. You could find about 10+ where I say I love OKC. I am sticking by my original statement.

It's only nice to have six lane arterial streets if they are needed and on Classen that is not the case. That isn't hate, it's just common sense.ljbab, I'm not saying you in particular hate them, there are others, that was a general reference. As far as Classen goes, it just seems to me that it is always nice to have the excess capacity, but I don't live in this area, so it will just be up to the community there I suppose.

ljbab, I'm not saying you in particular hate them, there are others, that was a general reference. As far as Classen goes, it just seems to me that it is always nice to have the excess capacity, but I don't live in this area, so it will just be up to the community there I suppose.

"Excess capacity" = Wasted economic opportunity

6 lane arterials are only nice if you never plan to experience them below 40 mph.

ljbab, I'm not saying you in particular hate them, there are others, that was a general reference. As far as Classen goes, it just seems to me that it is always nice to have the excess capacity, but I don't live in this area, so it will just be up to the community there I suppose.

By that way of reasoning wouldn't it be nice to have a ten lane street in front of your house to have the excess capacity? That is a well established urban street and the amount of traffic there is not going to increase by any significant amount so if that land area could be put to better use, why not?

I like the thought of turning the center median of Classen, north of 23rd into a cycling path. The average width of it is 30 feet which would easily accommodate a bike path and landscaping, whether it be shrubs or trees. The intersections can have crosswalks for both pedestrians as standard with cycling paths inside of these for sharrows branching off onto the east/west streets. South of 23rd (I don't know the numbers on Classen, but I could see the cycling path either staying in the center or moved to the outer lanes with Classen reduced to a four lane artery. I've never seen Classen, west of the metro one bit busy. Then, you could put the bike traffic on the outsides of NW 5th St., and integrate it into the existing bike lanes of Project 180 as it goes by the Downtown Transit Center toward Harvey, which has also been envisioned as a Greenbelt Cycling Path of sorts.

By that way of reasoning wouldn't it be nice to have a ten lane street in front of your house to have the excess capacity? That is a well established urban street and the amount of traffic there is not going to increase by any significant amount so if that land area could be put to better use, why not?That is taking it a little far doncha think? ;)

Either way, I think it is very unlikely we will ever see Classen narrowed from 6 to 4, but who knows. Again, I don't live in this area and it is up to its citizens to decide what they want for it.

Classen is a nice road and fine the way it is. I hope it doesn't ever happen. Keep in mind, I would like to see a greenbelt type setup here, but not on Classen.

If the idea here is to make OKC into a minor league version of The Cities, then, it's real important to always end every statement with 'then'.
Doncha know.

On the other hand, it might be less of a culture shock to say "donchyall no". then.

It's known as The Minnesota Nice Standard (and even works within the context of Urpan Dewelobmint).

And here's my elementary overlay...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5526/10702589705_7bcd0fb526_c.jpg
Take it away Cuatrodemayo!

Additional rendering:
Take NW 25th and turn it into a "sharrow" and use it to connect this with the envisioned Harvey Bicycle Pathway.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/10702849406_86aba04675_b.jpg

So . . . Why is it that you are thinkin' that then?

No, but it still nice to have 6 lane arterial streets. Not sure what all the hate about them is on this board. Again, I think Classen is fine for the most part. Just needs sidewalks.

It has not needed six lanes in many years, for a time it was the main north/south access route from downtown to the north and northwest but that function shifted to the interstates decades ago. Now, it pretty much just functions like the average mile line grid streets do, it does not have enough more flow to justify the higher maintenance the extra lanes requires and as others mentioned the space those extra lanes take probably have better uses for the city.

North of 23rd, I'd prefer to take up the 2 inside lanes and the outside edge of the median instead of plowing through the middle. Over the last few years, there has been significant work to beautify the median between 23rd and NW Expressway. I'd hate to tear that out. There are also some really nice trees along there.

Part of my reasoning for utilizing the inner lanes is to avoid the ridiculous amount of dangerous curb cuts along that street.

Something like this via Streetmix (http://streetmix.net/)

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/CuatrodeMayo/classen-boulevard-proposed_zps3601cd64.png

I agree. Some of that was projects I was a part of with OKC Beautiful. However, I thought that a bike lane could meander enough to avoid the trees. Go around the important and expensive stuff perhaps.


In the Asian District this meander would have to be pretty dramatic. Lots of stuff in there; pagodas, hard-scaping, nice landscaping, sprinkler systems, vegetation that is just now of the age where it is really thriving. It would be a shame to pave over all of that. I like the inside lane concept.

Classen traffic would flow just as smooth with 4 lanes as it would with 6... Hardly ever see much traffic. I know 2 lane streets which carry more traffic....

Which 2-lane streets are those? According to ACOG, Classen has an ADT of 28,000 near 39th Street.

In the Asian District this meander would have to be pretty dramatic. Lots of stuff in there; pagodas, hard-scaping, nice landscaping, sprinkler systems, vegetation that is just now of the age where it is really thriving. It would be a shame to pave over all of that. I like the inside lane concept.

That's why I took it east on 25th, to avoid a majority of the landscaping in the Asian District. I do like the bike lanes on the outsides of the median and having lights separating pedestrians from vehicles is a good thing.

That's why I took it east on 25th, to avoid a majority of the landscaping in the Asian District.

This would only avoid 2 of the 7 blocks worth of landscaping.

This would only avoid 2 of the 7 blocks worth of landscaping.

I know. There's this thing called Google Maps. It's a really cool invention...

There's something similar going on in Atlanta called the Atlanta BeltLine. The BeltLine could honesty be its own thread cause it's rather large & ambitious, but I'll just post the link to its website to save creating a huge thread on a city that most Oklahoma Citians could probably care less about….

Atlanta BeltLine // Connecting Atlanta's rich history to a vibrant future. (http://beltline.org)

There's a thread on SkyscraperPage Forum that covers the progress quite extensively, although there hasn't been many updates since September.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149779