Also, just want to point out that in so many other threads people constantly lament about the fact that OKC has no solidly upscale neighborhoods, that new development is often a mis-mash and that old neighborhoods are pocketed with very nice and very bad properties, and that this is what keeps the Whole Foods of the world at bay. Others words, not mine, in fact many of yours. Well, all I can say is we've done it to ourselves again....

At this point I just hope that this development now proceeds. If it falls through, thanks to the city council rezoning the area as multifamily, any crappy development can now go in here without much discussion at all.

Great posting Quststor….!

It appears there is so much factional infighting with city leaders that it sometimes prevents them from doing what’s in the best long range interest of the city’s residents.

The loss of future sales tax revenue from probably the wealthiest part of Norman is going to hurt the city in the long run
AND THAT HURTS EVERBODY.
Regardless of who they are, its pretty sad when people are so short sighted.

From what I have seen, Norman builds streets faster and way higher quality than okc does.

Basically, if you are complaining about traffic in this area, you don't know what traffic is, or you just need to learn a new route.


Basically you should spend some time in some of the newer Dallas suburbs such as Frisco TX and you would see a much higher quality of thought put into how to plan a city’s infrastructure.

We do far too little long range planning in Norman and when we do the city comes back and changes it on a whim and sometimes against the wishes of many.

Thanks. The reality is that I don't think Norman is any good at understanding, planning, or performing urban development nor suburban development. It's just bad across the board right now. This city has room, and a need, for both types of development. They both need each other to survive... the urban areas create amenities that make this city vibrant, and frankly the suburbs provide the funding to make that possible. We shouldn't settle for sub-par in either category. Looking at a city like Frisco, I think, is an example of how suburb development should be. I think it's success is a foregone conclusion when you consider the number of trips friends, family, etc. have made from as far away as Norman, and how even a few are considering a move to Texas as a result. I'm sure you have many examples too.

I think there's an obvious mindset, at least on this board, that the suburbs should just be cast to the wind, but you know planning doesn't mean just thinking about the areas that interest you/the planners. It means considering everything in the big picture and ensuring that your city is one big functioning system. I don't think we have that kind of mindset here.

frankly the suburbs provide the funding to make that possible.

This is extremely untrue... from the public perspective urban areas pay for themselves and suburban sprawl is a net drain on public resources. A single family home development built in the middle of nowhere with newly extended infrastructure. The infrastructure serves fewer dwelling units per acre than it does in central Norman. Suburban development does not "pay for" anything in the long range, it drains public funds that could be used for improvement of existing infrastructure.

This is extremely untrue... from the public perspective urban areas pay for themselves and suburban sprawl is a net drain on public resources. A single family home development built in the middle of nowhere with newly extended infrastructure. The infrastructure serves fewer dwelling units per acre than it does in central Norman. Suburban development does not "pay for" anything in the long range, it drains public funds that could be used for improvement of existing infrastructure.

It is true when the incomes are significantly higher as they are in west Norman than they are in the older more urban areas of Norman.

In Norman’s case Quststor has it 100% right. There needs to be much better planning, better balance, higher standards and smart decision makers.

I am always reminded of this whenever I travel to the DFW area and see how they have been building their metro streets and highways for the past few decades. They simply often build it bigger, better and proactively from the very start with very long range goals in mind.

Most quality jobs relocate in areas that have a high quality of life…. Some of these things include higher end affordable homes, schools, above decent shopping with good streets and highways.

I guess it depends on what you want. An urban college town or an upscale, high income suburb.

When I see whining from people because they decided to build an expensive home on the outer fringes of town, while there are still large open areas close to the core of the city and services, then I say too bad. You made your bed by deciding to contribute to sprawl and move out in what was just an open grass field. Now would Norman Regional be part to blame in this? Hard to say since portions of Moore are also being served by them, so they need to be near a halfway point.

There is plenty of open land still along SW 36th that can be developed. Hey, those areas would be 10 minutes or less from a lot of retail venues.

I guess it depends on what you want. An urban college town or an upscale, high income suburb.

When I see whining from people because they decided to build an expensive home on the outer fringes of town, while there are still large open areas close to the core of the city and services, then I say too bad. You made your bed by deciding to contribute to sprawl and move out in what was just an open grass field. Now would Norman Regional be part to blame in this? Hard to say since portions of Moore are also being served by them, so they need to be near a halfway point.

There is plenty of open land still along SW 36th that can be developed. Hey, those areas would be 10 minutes or less from a lot of retail venues.

You and countless other act like sprawl is the worst thing that could ever happen…. It’s not and not by a very large amount.

The lack of prosperity and lack of quality is a far bigger problem to quality community development…..
With enough prosperity urban sprawl pretty much (over time) takes care of its self.
This is not to say that we shouldn’t better control sprawl when it’s practical.

Assisted living centers are become a necessary part of our life its need of modern world. To help old people its a beautiful idea, Norman is going to right way, we should support the project. Old people are needy to such projects..,

Any Comments?

Work on the 36th and Tecumseh apartment complex may be starting up as in the last week or so a construction trailer showed up in the field.

Do they say the developer is? Sooner Traditions? Someone else?

Not that I noticed while driving by, but it's kind of out in the middle of the field so I may just have missed the details. I'll try to get a better look.

I snapped this picture on my way by a few minutes ago:

http://i.imgur.com/fCi9geMl.jpg

No clue on how to tell the developer from this. Here is the full size (http://i.imgur.com/fCi9geM.jpg) if it helps.

That's not near as many apartments as the naysayers were fearing. Shorter building too. :)

That's not near as many apartments as the naysayers were fearing. Shorter building too. :)

And it was the naysayers who caused a lot of that^

And it was the naysayers who caused a lot of that^

Those "naysayers" make my skin crawl. I live at Tenkiller but own proprty near this location so I have followed this development closely. It's really sad when I hear people that live near this area refer to potential apartment renters as "those people". Sad and disgusting.

I'm pretty sure post 76 was a good joke. Not all of Norman "nay-sayers" live in that area. We aren't really all that bad - it is just the "newspaper" editor who likes to imply that anything said other than pro-pro-pro-development is just a bunch of nattering old people who should die now and give up their teetering old bungalows and cottages for apartment buildings and Greek Houses. Not going to happen. The editor likes to call us naysayers and crunchy green people and NIMBY-types, but he is not a fair judge of what happens here by any stretch of the imagination.

We are not the naysayers who say "those people." We are the naysayers who argue with the city and the chamber about water rates and zoning changes and "cat-proof fences."

Those "naysayers" make my skin crawl. I live at Tenkiller but own proprty near this location so I have followed this development closely. It's really sad when I hear people that live near this area refer to potential apartment renters as "those people". Sad and disgusting.

But what's really sad and disgusting is when people complain about intolerant people when in fact their own words make them look even more intolerant and hypocritical.

The fact is that this project is a lot more palatable for most existing property owners than it was before and for many, a reasonable compromise was found that would not have happened without the input from the so called naysayers.

The construction fence went up today.

Mr. T, it was indeed.

Looks like there's a name.

http://i.imgur.com/CVlAhyd.jpg?1

I've started to collect my pictures of this site into an Imgur album (also, I apparently take terrible pictures, so you get what you pay for):

Windsor Apartments - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/S4L5c)

Techumseh Road??

Dem naysayers, they be chums.
:)

LOL, I didn't even notice the misspelling on the sign.

Well, as you get closer to Tecumseh, it's lower tech.

Moore-Norman Vo-Tech, not far from Techcumseh Road.

"Franklin, my dear, I don't give a damn."

We're getting some earth moving on this site now, as well as the office complex site a bit to the west along Tecumseh.

A solid year into this project, and it turns out to be kind of huge. I'm a big fan of the stretch of the complex that sits right up against the road.

10652

10653

10654

10655

Amusingly enough I didn't take or make this panorama, Google automatically (and unexpectedly) stitched it together for me after I took the previous four.

10656

Although I live near and drive by the site each day, I almost forgot about the debate regarding the construction of the apartments. I'm neither for or against the development of the apartments, but I am thoroughly disgusted with the City of Norman (both planning staff and elected officials) for their disregard for the citizens.

According to KFOR (see post #35 for link) a "giant protest" of 840 nearby homeowners signed a petition to prevent the development. This is a significant percentage of the homeowners who are most affected by the development. The City of Norman, as has been their history, simply ignores the will of the people in favor of the development community. It doesn't seem to matter what the local property owners want as long as the developers are kept happy.

I think it's very important to remember the City did not approve a building permit for a development currently allowable: The City approved a CHANGE to the zoning and land use guidelines specifically PREVENTING this type of development from occurring. These ordinances were in effect when the home owners purchased their property and they should have a reasonable expectation of stability. At very least, the home owners should have a reasonable expectation of their collective voices being heard when a change was requested.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but not only are the apartments three stories but they are setting on top of a three or four foot high foundation. They're huge... By far the tallest buildings in this part of NW Norman.

Yes the city completely ignored its citizens and has since disallowed apartments in other parts of the city for being too big which aren't even close to the size of this complex. One has to wonder what the city's motivations were and are.

Most of the councillors who voted for it are now gone from the council. The elections in the years following were brutal for several of them. There's still one guy on the council who voted for it.

Not much has changed with the city planning commission, and the lawyer who represented this property continues to represent many other projects in front of the commission.

Ehh, I live closer to this complex than possibly anyone else on the board, and I don't mind either their size or their existence in the slightest. If the people who live in the immediate area that don't like what is being built want to live in an area where they can have more influence on their surroundings, *random set of cookie-cutter suburbs* is not that place, especially when said set of suburbs was built out in the middle of empty fields which are close enough to town that more development was eventually going to follow in relative short order.

Earlier this year these apartments were clipped by the May tornado or winds that took out a portion of the nearby Sonic. The building farthest south facing 36th street was visibly leaning to one side afterwards. There was a lot of chatter around town with locals wondering what would happen to the building. Anyway, after setting unchanged for several months one day construction restarted on the building and now it's almost finished. Anyone have any idea what that was all about?

New name and apparently ownership... Now known as Anatole at Norman.

The Anatole at Norman Apartments (http://www.anatoleatnorman.com)