Doesn't that beg the question, are the convention group visitors shopping at Bass Pro with the intent purpose of doing so or because that is one of the view retail options within the convention center area? Or is it just a happy coincidence, they are shopping there only because it is there? That is why I thought the perfect place for the Outlet Mall would have been in lower Bricktown or even as a southern anchor of Core to Shore...a variety of retail all in one location. As successful as the Outlet Mall has been, why did OKC offer incentives for them to build near the burbs?

Or to get back to the subject of the thread, why not offer incentives for the outlet mall developers to take over Crossroads Mall...the most needful area of I-240 that needs retail revitalization??

I believe that is the case nowadays and BP depends on BT bringing them business rather than it being the other way around. Maybe when Bricktown didn't have as many draws and Bass Pro didn't build stores all over the place and lower their uniqueness did they actually draw in more people than other attractions in Bricktown.

I have never seen a car get towed from the Bass Pro parking lot. They don't really put any effort at preventing people parking there.

Just a thought...if one could turn back time and Bass Pro (very SUB-urban?) located to an established suburban area like crossroads, and something as popular as The Warren followed, how would the area look today? It seems like a better place for Bass Pro or Cabelas or something, if you had those as 'anchors' and could remove all of the run-down strip malls facing I-35 traffic, the mall would be visable again and something would survive. The area will never compete with the Penn Square area for the same type of retail, but would be a great Redneck Mecca, maybe J.R.'s could resurface in the food court... Moore has re-sprawled with horribly unplanned developments stacked on top of each other - that you can barely get to without waiting on 5 stop lights once you exit the poorly planned off-ramps, 240 should have moore potetial than Moore.

Questor..... didn't mean to repeat your thought on Bass Pro, I just now went back and more clearly read your post.

Just a thought...if one could turn back time and Bass Pro (very SUB-urban?) located to an established suburban area like crossroads, and something as popular as The Warren followed, how would the area look today? It seems like a better place for Bass Pro or Cabelas or something, if you had those as 'anchors' and could remove all of the run-down strip malls facing I-35 traffic, the mall would be visable again and something would survive. The area will never compete with the Penn Square area for the same type of retail, but would be a great Redneck Mecca, maybe J.R.'s could resurface in the food court... Moore has re-sprawled with horribly unplanned developments stacked on top of each other - that you can barely get to without waiting on 5 stop lights once you exit the poorly planned off-ramps, 240 should have moore potetial than Moore.

It likely would have taken more money to get Bass Pro to go in near Crossroads, while I don't think what we game them was worth it, what we gave them was still about 10 million less than the average incentive package they have gotten over the last ten years to build a store. It being downtown was probably why it got as much money from the city as it did, near Quail Springs Mall would probably be the only other place I would would expect them to prefer and have space to build easily.

It likely would have taken more money to get Bass Pro to go in near Crossroads, while I don't think what we game them was worth it, what we gave them was still about 10 million less than the average incentive package they have gotten over the last ten years to build a store. It being downtown was probably why it got as much money from the city as it did, near Quail Springs Mall would probably be the only other place I would would expect them to prefer and have space to build easily.

During negotiations with Bass Pro, they were given a list of 5 locations. They were intent on building in Bricktown, they wouldn't even consider the other 4 locations.

Just a thought...if one could turn back time and Bass Pro (very SUB-urban?) located to an established suburban area like crossroads, and something as popular as The Warren followed, how would the area look today? It seems like a better place for Bass Pro or Cabelas or something, if you had those as 'anchors' and could remove all of the run-down strip malls facing I-35 traffic, the mall would be visable again and something would survive. The area will never compete with the Penn Square area for the same type of retail, but would be a great Redneck Mecca, maybe J.R.'s could resurface in the food court... Moore has re-sprawled with horribly unplanned developments stacked on top of each other - that you can barely get to without waiting on 5 stop lights once you exit the poorly planned off-ramps, 240 should have moore potetial than Moore.

I don't really see what makes I-240 that much different than I-35 other than having less traffic because the area is dead compared to 19th St. If the sprawl actually developed along I-240 it would be just as bad I-35.

The problem is that it is difficult to equally distribute the wealth across a city based on suburban sprawl. There are two types of wealthy people. Those who like to build a new house way out Suburbs on untouched land and those who like to buy places deep in the urban core. Neither wants to move into the middle layer of that suburban sprawl. The large retailers simply follow the money, bad planning or not.

I can almost guarantee you that the "locusts" will spread somewhere along I-44 between 89th and 149th streets leaving I-240 double screwed. Just watch and see. I give it less than 5 years. Well, their already planning on developing the airport area. Not sure what kind of businesses their hoping to attract there.

During negotiations with Bass Pro, they were given a list of 5 locations. They were intent on building in Bricktown, they wouldn't even consider the other 4 locations.

What were the other 4 locations?

An update:

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-interstate-240-area-needs-new-identity-panel-says/article/3665876

This thread...oh this thread!

The main problem with I240 is the apartments. If they could raze the ones between Western and Penn (south side of 240), and all the garbage at May (north and south sides), the area would stand a chance. All of these apartments have high levels of violent crime. The first set I mentioned are owned by a Pakistani dude from Cali that bought them up during the real estate bubble because he thought they were so cheap, by Cali standards. He has no interest in the area, and it would take someone with big dough and an even bigger vision to do something about these eyesores.

I'm not sure why Hump is on this committee. I guess he gives the committee name recognition. He's more well-known for attaching himself to the City teet, than coming up with solutions that don't necessarily benefit him. Gosh, I hope I haven't started another thread tangent! The subject is I240, and I have have my doubts about the insight this committee (or whatever they call it) could provide.

This thread...oh this thread!

The main problem with I240 is the apartments. If they could raze the ones between Western and Penn (south side of 240), and all the garbage at May (north and south sides), the area would stand a chance. All of these apartments have high levels of violent crime. The first set I mentioned are owned by a Pakistani dude from Cali that bought them up during the real estate bubble because he thought they were so cheap, by Cali standards. He has no interest in the area, and it would take someone with big dough and an even bigger vision to do something about these eyesores.

I'm not sure why Hump is on this committee. I guess he gives the committee name recognition. He's more well-known for attaching himself to the City teet, than coming up with solutions that don't necessarily benefit him. Gosh, I hope I haven't started another thread tangent! The subject is I240, and I have have my doubts about the insight this committee (or whatever they call it) could provide.

Razing the apartments would just shifts the problem elsewhere in the city.

Razing the apartments would just shifts the problem elsewhere in the city.

Yeah, the last thing we want is Southside to prosper. Every city has to have a ghetto it might as well be South OKC.

Save the good developments for places like Bricktown, Penn Square and Memorial where they whitewash over things like gang shootings, robbery, kidnapping and sexual assault that all happen in public in broad daylight.

They could start by mowing on each side of I-240. It has never been maintained well...always looks awful.

I use to work at 104th and Western but lived in MWC, every day, without fail, on my way home, there was always a wreck on 240 just before the I35 interchange. That stretch of highway is dangerous.

Disclaimer: I don't know what my post has to do with this thread, just adding it in.

I can't speak on all the apartments and townhomes along that stretch of 240, but when I worked in south OKC a while back, one of our new hires lived in a place along there. It looked nicer than the others from the highway and frontage road, and even up close from the outside. However, it was truly a terrible place, structurally and mechanically. He hated it, but he stayed because he felt the rent was cheap (wasn't for what what he endured in my opinion) and having cheap to him rent made it easier to cover the nut on the way too much car for his pay grade that he drove.

I drove on I 240 numerous times and the road surface was very smooth, and there are lots of buisness along the highway, can somebody explain exactly WHY odot wants to waste money on this project instead repairing portions of i-44 by Penn Square mall. Its much busier than I-240 and the roads are in serious need of repair. That part of OKC needs the revitalization because it just looks too ghetto, in my opinion.

I drove on I 240 numerous times and the road surface was very smooth, and there are lots of buisness along the highway, can somebody explain exactly WHY odot wants to waste money on this project instead repairing portions of i-44 by Penn Square mall. Its much busier than I-240 and the roads are in serious need of repair. That part of OKC needs the revitalization because it just looks too ghetto, in my opinion.

Your perceptions of i44 near Penn being busier than i240 do not seem to be supported by ODOT's statistics (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/aadtcnt/map.aspx?map=Oklahoma%20%20County). It would not surprise me that i44 would feel busier due to the way it merges with Lake Hefner Parkway, left side exits near Penn and i235 cloverleafs made it prone to slowing down even before construction on i44/i235 juncture was underway.

Just a thought...if one could turn back time and Bass Pro (very SUB-urban?) located to an established suburban area like crossroads, and something as popular as The Warren followed, how would the area look today? It seems like a better place for Bass Pro or Cabelas or something, if you had those as 'anchors' and could remove all of the run-down strip malls facing I-35 traffic, the mall would be visable again and something would survive. The area will never compete with the Penn Square area for the same type of retail, but would be a great Redneck Mecca, maybe J.R.'s could resurface in the food court... Moore has re-sprawled with horribly unplanned developments stacked on top of each other - that you can barely get to without waiting on 5 stop lights once you exit the poorly planned off-ramps, 240 should have moore potetial than Moore.

Bass Pro is an anchor tenant at the Discover Mills Mall in Lawrenceville, GA (suburba of Atlanta). It is a former outlet mall turned entertainment complex.

Your perceptions of i44 near Penn being busier than i240 do not seem to be supported by ODOT's statistics (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/aadtcnt/map.aspx?map=Oklahoma%20%20County). It would not surprise me that i44 would feel busier due to the way it merges with Lake Hefner Parkway, left side exits near Penn and i235 cloverleafs made it prone to slowing down even before construction on i44/i235 juncture was underway.

And there is also the matter that ODOT is not invoved in this project so SoonerBoy can rest a little easier since it doesn't involve the roadway at all.

I was driving in this area earlier this week and I noticed something I had been meaning to comment on... an old car dealership with its signage removed at I-240 and I-35 (just east of). There were tons of either OHP or OCPD cruisers and trucks parked in the lot, so it appeared to be some sort of government storage. The place didn't look so great, and in the past it has looked absolutely awful, overgrown with weeds. Who is utilizing this space?

Your perceptions of i44 near Penn being busier than i240 do not seem to be supported by ODOT's statistics (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/aadtcnt/map.aspx?map=Oklahoma%20%20County). It would not surprise me that i44 would feel busier due to the way it merges with Lake Hefner Parkway, left side exits near Penn and i235 cloverleafs made it prone to slowing down even before construction on i44/i235 juncture was underway.

That map is really interesting. It looks like the busiest highways in the city are I-40 and everything south of it. It's kind of amazing that so much focus is placed on everything north of 40.

I was driving in this area earlier this week and I noticed something I had been meaning to comment on... an old car dealership with its signage removed at I-240 and I-35 (just east of). There were tons of either OHP or OCPD cruisers and trucks parked in the lot, so it appeared to be some sort of government storage. The place didn't look so great, and in the past it has looked absolutely awful, overgrown with weeds. Who is utilizing this space?
If it is the one I am thinking of, it was a relatively new dealership that moved again "around the corner" on I-35 (Southwest Ford that used to be located off 59th & Penn...where the Wal-Mart Market is now?)???

I was driving in this area earlier this week and I noticed something I had been meaning to comment on... an old car dealership with its signage removed at I-240 and I-35 (just east of). There were tons of either OHP or OCPD cruisers and trucks parked in the lot, so it appeared to be some sort of government storage. The place didn't look so great, and in the past it has looked absolutely awful, overgrown with weeds. Who is utilizing this space?

Im guessing thats exactly what it is: State of Oklahoma storage. Or maybe somewhere OHP officers can take naps? LOL The state bought the right of way for the interchange back when they thought it would be under construction by now. The new dealership is on 89th and I-35, I think? Somewhere in that area anyway.

They also bulldozed the apartments and homes on the otherside of I-240. So they bulldozed peoples homes, but left the car dealership because of a project delayed over 10 years. Go figure.

Can we get somebody to mow along I-240? I don't understand why this highway rarely seems to get mowed?

Larry and jn1780, I think you're right, it's a dealership that moved down the way and it looks like huge numbers of state vehicles parked there now. I just happened to notice it because it seems like maybe they need to mow and weed eat the place more often.

It was Bob Moore Ford until they moved to 89th and I-35. The state bought it because a flyover ramp or on ramp for I-35 South is going to go right through there when they re-build the interchange. The project is not slated to begin until 2018. In the meantime they are acquiring land and relocating utilities.

OHP is using it as a facility to put new cars in service and take old ones out of service. They usually do this at a ODOT yard located just NE of the FT Smith Junction. The dealership was being vandalized pretty frequently until they started parking OHP cars over there. OHP likely moved this operation over to the old dealership because of the space at the old dealership.

I had asked about the Ford dealership months ago. They're using it for a staging/storage area until it's demolished for the new interchange.

They are also mowing the 240 area as we speak.

I do wish the I-240 area would get a good cleaning up starting with bulldozing Crossroads mall & all the apartments west all the way to May Ave.

An update.

Oklahoma City to study interest in unified Interstate 240 redevelopment plan | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-to-study-interest-in-unified-interstate-240-redevelopment-plan/article/3719624)

Step 1 - repave the whole length of the service road!!!!!!!!!

An update on this effort.

Promoters of Oklahoma City's I-240 area look to Fort Worth, Texas, for an example | News OK (http://newsok.com/promoters-of-oklahoma-citys-i-240-area-look-to-fort-worth-texas-for-an-example/article/3763894)

An update on this effort.

Promoters of Oklahoma City's I-240 area look to Fort Worth, Texas, for an example | News OK (http://newsok.com/promoters-of-oklahoma-citys-i-240-area-look-to-fort-worth-texas-for-an-example/article/3763894)

It's good to see some pro-activeness considering the I-240 corridor. It has declined but its not so far gone it can't be easily revitalized. I think getting rid of the run-down, outdated apartment complexes along I-240 will go a long ways. It would be cool if it could become something similar to how Memorial Rd/Kilpatrick Turnpike is on the north side. That corridor is adjacent to the fast growing SW OKC (West Moore) area so there is a lot of potential. The problem is directly north of I-240 are some of the worst neighborhoods in OKC.

So, what I'm curious about, and I've emailed them several times regarding this question and each time they respond, my question is never directly answered. What is the scale of this "project"? I'll try and come up with a rendering soon of what I think it should be (and don't hate if I overkill this), but are we talking completely reconstructing this highway and it's service roads?

It would be better if they lowered the highway slightly below grade and obviously reconstruct it in cement and widen it to 8 lanes(this wouldn't be too important, they could just keep it six lanes, but it doesn't hurt to plan ahead) and widen the service roads to 3 lanes in each direction. Add nice landscaping and internally illuminated signs and if they really wanted to plan ahead, put in HOV lanes. I know this would be very costly and right now, OKC has higher priorities, but I just hope they don't halfass this if they are considering a complete rebuild of the highway. . . IF

The highway seems to be in good shape, it's just freakin ugly and very narrow shoulders. The service roads are in horrible condition (arguably some of the worst in the country) and very small merging time (although better than some highways around here). Well, whatever happens, I hope they are innovative and don't halfass anything.

8 highway lanes and 6 service lanes?

I hope not. 14 lanes is not the answer....

And I think this is more about the corridor than the road itself. Beautification projects, landscaping, encouraging better developments, etc.

8 highway lanes and 6 service lanes?

I hope not. 14 lanes is not the answer....Well, traffic would flow more smoothly, but however you want it done, you can spend a ton of money rebuilding it 6 highway lanes and 2 service lanes. When I said 6 service, I probably should've specified what's already there. So, really you would only have 2 service lanes through and at the intersection, 2 left turn lanes, texas u turn, dedicated right lane, new 8 ft. sidewalks, 10ft. crosswalk sections, 2 through lanes, so not 6 service lanes, I over stated that.

Regarding the highway, 8 lanes wouldn't hurt to plan ahead, but I don't see them doing that. Really, the traffic flows real smooth on this stretch of highway and I just think it doesn't hurt to plan ahead. You're right about 14 lanes, I don't ever see this highway needing that in the long-term future. Also, incorporating wider sidewalks to allow for biking as bike lanes obviously wouldn't work. But, I would like to see the city do this on all the new streets it builds. Do I think this will happen, no.

Beautification projects, landscaping, encouraging better developments, etc.Yes and I think this would be great. I also think, as been mentioned above, the service roads need to be repaved. I this highway has quite a bit more life in it before it needs to be rebuilt. Like I said, I think OKC has much higher priories than spending a couple hundred mill. on this right now. lol :)

The problem is directly north of I-240 are some of the worst neighborhoods in OKC.

And directly south of Memorial and the turnpike are some the worst neighborhoods/apartments in OKC. Your comparison doesn't wash. Many people are not particularly enamored of some of the developments along the Kilpatrick.

And directly south of Memorial and the turnpike are some the worst neighborhoods/apartments in OKC. Your comparison doesn't wash. Many people are not particular enamored of some of the developments along the Kilpatrick.

Very true . . . very true . . .
But this is about I-240 . . . how about . . . A New Home For Stage Center!!! (no?)

Very true . . . very true . . .
But this is about I-240 . . . how about . . . A New Home For Stage Center!!! (no?)

Lovely idea, but no.

lol

And directly south of Memorial and the turnpike are some the worst neighborhoods/apartments in OKC. Your comparison doesn't wash. Many people are not particularly enamored of some of the developments along the Kilpatrick.

122nd and Penn is a blight on what otherwise is a great area. Outside of those apartments, that part of town is pretty good. It's my opinion they should just bulldoze them and eradicate the problem before it spreads to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Question for you. What don't you like about the development along Kilpatrick?

122nd and Penn is a blight on what otherwise is a great area. Outside of those apartments, that part of town is pretty good. It's my opinion they should just bulldoze them and eradicate the problem before it spreads to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Question for you. What don't you like about the development along Kilpatrick?


You are obviously not that familiar with the area. You might want to try looking around the area along Britton Road and near Western. The apartments along I240 and other areas to the north have nothing on that area. Some of the development along the Kilpatrick is nice surburban development and some of it is typical throwaway development which you can find anywhere. I think many are hoping for something better and more urban along the I240 corridor.

It's good to see some pro-activeness considering the I-240 corridor. It has declined but its not so far gone it can't be easily revitalized. I think getting rid of the run-down, outdated apartment complexes along I-240 will go a long ways. It would be cool if it could become something similar to how Memorial Rd/Kilpatrick Turnpike is on the north side. That corridor is adjacent to the fast growing SW OKC (West Moore) area so there is a lot of potential. The problem is directly north of I-240 are some of the worst neighborhoods in OKC.

74th to 59th is still somewhat hanging in there which could be bolstered by a revitalization of 240

I'll have to diagree with bchris on the neighborhood statements. The area north of 240 is NOT the worst in OKC. I can rattle off a large number of areas that are far worse, and if you drive around, you'll see how wrong you are. It does, however, get more rough once you get up to 44th. But the same can be true of any area....a few miles in any direction is a big difference. A few miles from Gallardia gets you 122nd and Penn.....some of the worst statistical gang-land in OKC.

The problem is directly north of I-240 are some of the worst neighborhoods in OKC.


I think this paints waaaay too broad a brush for I-240. Incorrectly conveys this notion that the entire stretch is some sort of desperate, crime-ridden area, which simply isn't true. I drive that corridor every day.

Are there some less than four-star apartment complexes in that area? Absolutely. I would say that the worst of them are "clotted" in a strangely gnarled street arrangement that starts where SW 74th and the I-240 service road splits west of Penn, and then goes west to May. In that area, too, is a nasty old motel that gets mentioned in the news way too often. And the north side of I-240 in that same area around May hosts an empty former Albertson's location, in front of which there's a sign indicating a desire to subdivide/rework a la Palagio on SW 104th and Penn, and there's an apartment complex immediately north of there that is maybe marginally better than the one along SW 74th.

But tracing the area immediately north of I-240 between May and Penn reveals the Walnut Creek golf course and country club, including the pending construction of a new clubhouse, and then a decent but not thriving shopping center that includes Hobby Lobby, Big Lots, Conn's, and Olive Garden. I think Hobby Lobby has done a lot to perk up that center, actually. On the south side of I-240 east of Penn is the old Southern Hills Shopping Center that is approaching full occupancy, with a Starbucks in an outparcel, an electronics resale place (CDR), a fabric store, a PetsMart, and a Mazzios, with one of the other outparcels being remodeled and given an exterior facelift.

Keep going east, and you'll find decent retail names like McDonald's, Office Depot, Staples, and Lowe's in fairly short order. Is it perfect? Of course not, hence the ideas being circulated to revitalize it. But to cast this notion that its "some of the worst in OKC" is simply unfair and inaccurate. South OKC has to work hard enough to overcome the predispositions many hold for it without perpetuating inaccuracies like this.

I think this paints waaaay too broad a brush for I-240. Incorrectly conveys this notion that the entire stretch is some sort of desperate, crime-ridden area, which simply isn't true. I drive that corridor every day.

Are there some less than four-star apartment complexes in that area? Absolutely. I would say that the worst of them are "clotted" in a strangely gnarled street arrangement that starts where SW 74th and the I-240 service road splits west of Penn, and then goes west to May. In that area, too, is a nasty old motel that gets mentioned in the news way too often. And the north side of I-240 in that same area around May hosts an empty former Albertson's location, in front of which there's a sign indicating a desire to subdivide/rework a la Palagio on SW 104th and Penn, and there's an apartment complex immediately north of there that is maybe marginally better than the one along SW 74th.

But tracing the area immediately north of I-240 between May and Penn reveals the Walnut Creek golf course and country club, including the pending construction of a new clubhouse, and then a decent but not thriving shopping center that includes Hobby Lobby, Big Lots, Conn's, and Olive Garden. I think Hobby Lobby has done a lot to perk up that center, actually. On the south side of I-240 east of Penn is the old Southern Hills Shopping Center that is approaching full occupancy, with a Starbucks in an outparcel, an electronics resale place (CDR), a fabric store, a PetsMart, and a Mazzios, with one of the other outparcels being remodeled and given an exterior facelift.

Keep going east, and you'll find decent retail names like McDonald's, Office Depot, Staples, and Lowe's in fairly short order. Is it perfect? Of course not, hence the ideas being circulated to revitalize it. But to cast this notion that its "some of the worst in OKC" is simply unfair and inaccurate. South OKC has to work hard enough to overcome the predispositions many hold for it without perpetuating inaccuracies like this.

I agree 100%. Southwest OKC is becoming to developed with nice new homes, and letting this area go would just continue to drive these shoppers elsewhere.

OKC is the type of place where you can't make sweeping generalizations about an entire side of town. There are some very nice areas north of 240.

SoonerDave, did you you mean Willow Creek? I agree with you though that is a very nice neighborhood. I actually got lost one day and found that place. I would live there in a heartbeat, although I'm a sucker for mid-century architecture. In fact, I would say the vast majority of the area south of 44th is tidy working to middle class neighborhoods. Sure there's plenty of decaying commercial strips and ratty apartment complexes, but that's how OKC rolls unfortunately.

Heck, even my parents old stomping grounds of Wildewood in the terrible, crime filled northeast side is actually made up of very nice, owner occupied homes and large, oak filled lots.

In any event, I'm glad to see that 240 is getting its act together. Just cleaning up some of the apartments would do wonders for that corridor.

Repave the frontage roads though, PLEASE!

OKC is the type of place where you can't make sweeping generalizations about an entire side of town. There are some very nice areas north of 240.

SoonerDave, did you you mean Willow Creek? I agree with you though that is a very nice neighborhood. I actually got lost one day and found that place. I would live there in a heartbeat, although I'm a sucker for mid-century architecture. In fact, I would say the vast majority of the area south of 44th is tidy working to middle class neighborhoods. Sure there's plenty of decaying commercial strips and ratty apartment complexes, but that's how OKC rolls unfortunately.

Heck, even my parents old stomping grounds of Wildewood in the terrible, crime filled northeast side is actually made up of very nice, owner occupied homes and large, oak filled lots.

In any event, I'm glad to see that 240 is getting its act together. Just cleaning up some of the apartments would do wonders for that corridor.

Yes, but many years ago it was "Walnut Creek" and the name stuck in my head.

I really think part of the "revitalization" of that area is going to have to take the routing of SW 74th at May Avenue into consideration. That is part of what has created that "island" of nasty hotels/gas station/really bad apts. Not quite sure how you fix that part of it, but I think it needs to be a big part of the update. If that nasty motel, the chronically defunct former Sinclair gas station in that "island," and even that first block of apts to the east could magically go away it sure would be a bonus, but I don't know how that can happen. I wonder what kind of occupancy rate those apts immediately east of Motel Nasty (Cambridge Inn, I think, or at least it was at one point??) are experiencing?

And, yes, bombermwc, they need to repave the frontage roads! :)

An update from the Mayor's Development Roundtable:

Oklahoma City planners see future retail tied to neighborhoods | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-planners-see-future-retail-tied-to-neighborhoods/article/3815268)

I think 240's ramps need to be reworked.

May full service
Penn Enter Only East/West Bound (Too Many Close calls from both off ramps)
Western full service
Close Walker (Too Many close calls especially on the on/off in front of David Stanley)
Santa Fe Full Service
Close Shields (The ramps are too dangerous from all directions)

Repave/widen the service roads running each direction between Shields and May. Post new signage showing how to access the streets like the new stretch of I-40.

They need to put the off ramps one street away from the actual arterial. For example, going west on I-240 you'd get off just after Western Ave. to get off on Penn. This would put traffic on the service road sooner and keep away last second lane changes to access the strip malls from being dangerous. The on ramps would be one mile down. To get on westbound from Western the actual on ramp would be right before the Penn bridge.

They need to put the off ramps one street away from the actual arterial. For example, going west on I-240 you'd get off just after Western Ave. to get off on Penn. This would put traffic on the service road sooner and keep away last second lane changes to access the strip malls from being dangerous. The on ramps would be one mile down. To get on westbound from Western the actual on ramp would be right before the Penn bridge.That would do wonders, but wouldn't they have to make the highway below grade for this to work efficiently, none the less, I'd still be for it and actually prefer this particular stretch to be below grade.

That would do wonders, but wouldn't they have to make the highway below grade for this to work efficiently, none the less, I'd still be for it and actually prefer this particular stretch to be below grade.

No? You're just moving the ramps. Instead of the on ramp being right after the intersection, it would be a street down right before the next intersection. Off ramps, instead of dumping traffic right into the intersections, would dump traffic just after the intersection.

No? You're just moving the ramps. Instead of the on ramp being right after the intersection, it would be a street down right before the next intersection. Off ramps, instead of dumping traffic right into the intersections, would dump traffic just after the intersection.Ah, I see ok. Makes sense now. :)

Ah, I see ok. Makes sense now. :)

Here's an example of what I mean, these are common in Austin.

http://gyazo.com/8c0fb8d07926400755d9b311ea722968.png

And then closer up view of that mile:

http://gyazo.com/53c446789e82cd816612cf59066eab6f.png
http://gyazo.com/8349bfca5083fdbbdde847553455e750.png

I doubt they even have considered using these in Oklahoma, to me they make sense.

Yes, the North Dallas Tollway is like that. It is an excellent highway and a good example of what a great highway system is. The highway is 6 lanes and has a six lane service road (one way 3 lanes each direction) and I know you didn't like that idea, but the ramps flow right onto the service roads and there is an exit every other road(sometimes the same) and same for entry. It is very nice. Hopefully they will build a nice interchange for the I-35/240 junction as well.

Er.... I think that Envision 240 is more of a land use planning process than a road rehabilitation project. If you have road surface-related concerns, you should take that up with ODOT.

This process isn't so much concerned with repaving the feeder roads so that it is a nicer, smoother 50 mph ride for you NOW, as it is with making sure that this area is competitive enough to weather changes in lifestyle and economic trends. This is looking much further into the future and looking much more broadly at ways to redevelop land.

Er.... I think that Envision 240 is more of a land use planning process than a road rehabilitation project. If you have road surface-related concerns, you should take that up with ODOT.

This process isn't so much concerned with repaving the feeder roads so that it is a nicer, smoother 50 mph ride for you NOW, as it is with making sure that this area is competitive enough to weather changes in lifestyle and economic trends. This is looking much further into the future and looking much more broadly at ways to redevelop land.

Yes I agree with this, the only thing I have seen mentioned regarding the actual transit infrastructure from the leaders of this project have been beautification efforts along the 240 corridor.

Yes I agree with this, the only thing I have seen mentioned regarding the actual transit infrastructure from the leaders of this project have been beautification efforts along the 240 corridor.

Which also aren't going to make it easier for you (generally speaking) to blaze past strip malls at 50 mph. So if that's "the life" in a decade or so you'll need to go to Moore.

I am beginning to believe Envision 240 may actually be the kind of progressive vision to reposition this important corridor to sustain success for decades to come and ward off the urban blight process that is beginning to circle around.

Let's talk about that, the real issues.