Seems like naming a street after a sports legend that is by a stadium is appropriate in a state that is crazy about sports.....

My biggest problem with street naming is changing the name every few blocks. I don't like streets that have one name for part of them, and another a little ways away. If we name a street after someone, it should be the entire street, IMO.

There go the Reagan and Bush airports. I guess the Kennedy Center is gone too. And anything named after Martin Luther King that doesn't directly relate to civil rights is out.

That would be correct - let their achievements stand the test of time first.

My biggest problem with street naming is changing the name every few blocks. I don't like streets that have one name for part of them, and another a little ways away. If we name a street after someone, it should be the entire street, IMO.

Yep. The only time a street should change names is at a jurisdictional boundary.

OK. I admit I was off-base (no pun intended). Now, could someone please either remind me or chomp on me about who Russel M. Perry was? It's been a while since I read my copy of OKC Second Time Around, or studied my baseball cards...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_M._Perry

OK. I admit I was off-base (no pun intended). Now, could someone please either remind me or chomp on me about who Russel M. Perry was? It's been a while since I read my copy of OKC Second Time Around, or studied my baseball cards...

Russel M. Perry Is STILL around. He owns Perry Publishing and Broadcasting over on 23rd, which includes several radio stations and The Black Chronicle newspaper.

item of the council docket to allow staff to move forward with the developer in negotiations

My biggest problem with street naming is changing the name every few blocks. I don't like streets that have one name for part of them, and another a little ways away. If we name a street after someone, it should be the entire street, IMO.

Agree 10000% Betts. It drives me crazy at times when I try to give directions!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6945620313_0d0ae23cc8_b.jpg

Who knows?, maybe this is just another separate hotel project that has been leaked, Bricktown would seem to be pretty well saturated/at market capacity with hotels if this is separate from Brooks' proposal and they both came to pass.

I don't think Candlewood is still a viable proposal, but it might be lingering. I know that their proposed hotel was hideous chain architecture, but it falls outside the boundaries of BUDC not that they would make any difference.

I know that their proposed hotel was hideous chain architecture, but it falls outside the boundaries of BUDC not that they would make any difference.

They made a difference with Garden Inn/Homewood Suites.

How so? I thought Pitman was proposing brick all along.

It went from this:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/1343354/medium.jpg

To this:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6163/unled1vw.png

I really like that. Curious, why would you not want it brick all the way up? Wouldn't that look better?

That would be ideal if it were all brick, yes. My point was just showing Spartan that BUDC pressured Mr. Pittman to go from the first picture to the latter ones (sorry that I couldn't find a smaller pic of the new design).

I was always under the impression that the first rendering was just a bad rendering or never really a serious design. Pitman did an exploratory phase to deliberately work with BUDC on the design standards - totally different from McD's and Chris Johnson threatening litigation and refusing to budge and being generally crappy community partners.

I was always under the impression that the first rendering was just a bad rendering or never really a serious design. Pitman did an exploratory phase to deliberately work with BUDC on the design standards - totally different from McD's and Chris Johnson threatening litigation and refusing to budge and being generally crappy community partners.

You know, you're right. I totally forgot about that, sorry. The before and after just always stuck out to me and I remember thinking how much I liked the finished product.

And you're right, BUDC is certainly not consistent in how and to whom they apply standards and some results have been underwhelming. But they do get things right sometimes...

Back to the thread subject, I hope we see some renderings on this by the end of the year. Perhaps after construction has started on the Edge?

You know, you're right. I totally forgot about that, sorry. The before and after just always stuck out to me and I remember thinking how much I liked the finished product.

And you're right, BUDC is certainly not consistent in how and to whom they apply standards and some results have been underwhelming. But they do get things right sometimes...

Hey, kudos for trying to defend BUDC. They deserve somebody to stick up for them because I know they mean well, however they need urbanist pressure IMO or else all they will have then is anti-urbanist pressure, which we know will consistently rear its ugly head. Commissioners have to respond to public pressure in some way, even if they just acknowledge it - so as much as I dislike vilifying people who mean well, if I were serving on the BUDC I myself would want all the pressure I could muster to give myself a counter-base to acknowledge against bad developers.

I don't think they face anti-urbanist pressure as much as ignorance of urbanist issues, coupled with a strong pro-capitalistic impulse. I don't think anyone is working to suburbanize downtown, but rather lack urbanistic experience so they do what they know. We need some strong urban style developers to come in and do some major development to accompany the more progressive small organic developers who are trying, but lack real muscle.

Regarding the top two floors not being brick, I think an architect - and I am certainly NOT one - might tell you that capping the top two floors with a contrasting material like what is shown in the hotel renderings is done to make the building appear lighter and less foreboding. Of course the preference should be to do this with cast stone rather than EIFS.

If you brick all the way to the top of an otherwise architecturally unremarkable mid-rise building you end up with Stuyvesant Town (NYC). It's not terrible, but it looks awfully plain (and heavy). By the way, calling the hotel "architecturally unremarkable" is not meant to be a dis; it's just a nice building that doesn't - and doesn't need to - strive to go far beyond the historic utilitarian brick warehouse architecture that surrounds it.

Stuyvesant Town:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WtjDr4yZ82g/TNKSvgBKWqI/AAAAAAAAAUY/B9E3tmNVPsg/s1600/360124027_d809415eeb.jpg

And for the record, that last post was NOT an endorsement of EIFS use; just an endorsement of the use of contrast materials on upper floors where warranted.

It went from this:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/1343354/medium.jpg

To this:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6163/unled1vw.png

the amount of brick stayed almost 100% the same .. it was just the test case the i guess .. it is "RED" brick town ...

I don't think they face anti-urbanist pressure as much as ignorance of urbanist issues, coupled with a strong pro-capitalistic impulse. I don't think anyone is working to suburbanize downtown, but rather lack urbanistic experience so they do what they know. We need some strong urban style developers to come in and do some major development to accompany the more progressive small organic developers who are trying, but lack real muscle.

I think you hit it right on the head Rover and I wish that the local developers would take OKCtalk comments under advisement when designing developments in the urban core. Lower Bricktown, Toby Keith's hotel, and the Oklahoma Independent Petroleum Association come to mind.

Huge news on this project... Today, the current property owner filed an application with the Bricktown Design Review Committee to demolish a bunch of buildings.

However, I'm having trouble matching the addresses on the application to those shown on the County Assessor's site.

The applications says: "demolition of all buildings at 411, 421, 500, and 505 E Sheridan Ave". Below, see all the Meinders-owned properties in yellow and blue are the actual legal addresses, all on E. Sheridan.

My guess is the plan is to raze everything on the north side of Sheridan and then everything at 500 E. Sheridan. I didn't realize how much property he owned in this area and that OCURA holds a big chunk as well.

I'm still not clear on which properties would be part of the proposed development. I would assume everything in yellow north of Sheridan.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/steelyard.jpg

I hope the 420 Sheridan building does not get demolished.

Huge news on this project... Today, the current property owner filed an application with the Bricktown Design Review Committee to demolish a bunch of buildings.

However, I'm having trouble matching the addresses on the application to those shown on the County Assessor's site.

The applications says: "demolition of all buildings at 411, 421, 500, and 505 E Sheridan Ave". Below, see all the Meinders-owned properties in yellow and blue are the actual legal addresses, all on E. Sheridan.

My guess is the plan is to raze everything on the north side of Sheridan and then everything at 500 E. Sheridan. I didn't realize how much property he owned in this area and that OCURA holds a big chunk as well.

I'm still not clear on which properties would be part of the proposed development. I would assume everything in yellow north of Sheridan.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/steelyard.jpg

Have we seen any conceptual designs or anything yet? I'd like to have some sort of false hope or something to cling to.

They have not yet submitted any type of project plan to the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

They've been working on a grant to help subsidize the apartments and I would say this move is a very good sign of things going forward.

Meinders bought all these properties in 2004 and hasn't done anything until now. Going through the great expense of demolishing all these empty buildings tells me he thinks something is going to happen here.

Does Meinders still own all these properties? Was the grant they were applying for going to help Gary Brooks purchase these properties or just help fund the development of something?

They have not yet submitted any type of project plan to the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

They've been working on a grant to help subsidize the apartments and I would say this move is a very good sign of things going forward.

Meinders bought all these properties in 2004 and hasn't done anything until now. Going through the great expense of demolishing all these empty buildings tells me he thinks something is going to happen here.

Good deal, its about time, these buildings are one the biggest eyesores in Bricktown, second only to the Rock Island Plow Building...

Does Meinders still own all these properties? Was the grant they were applying for going to help Gary Brooks purchase these properties or just help fund the development of something?

He owns everything shaded in yellow in that aerial.

The grant was for federal funds as part of the Neighborhood Stabilization program. The money is to be used towards making at least some of the apartments more affordable. In order to get the money, they have to build the apartments, not just buy the land.

Only a portion have to be at $700/mo though which is my guess that they're considering "affordable" which I'd agree with actually.

I am excited to see this project go forward. Just to follow this, we first had an announcement this winter, then the City had an official council action to pursue using the Neighborhood Stabilization program (is that tied to the Empowerment Zone funds?), now we have demolition permits.. I'd say we're on track for renderings in a few months, maybe this summer.

He owns everything shaded in yellow in that aerial.

The grant was for federal funds as part of the Neighborhood Stabilization program. The money is to be used towards making at least some of the apartments more affordable. In order to get the money, they have to build the apartments, not just buy the land.
Just a note but the money is in the cities control. So they are not applying to the feds

Would it be likely they build mid-rise apartments? Something like the "W" in Dallas... or is it for sure going to be a 2-3 story complex?

So far we understand it will be multi-structure, with the tallest structure peaking at 8 stories. I think in terms of massing, I'd compare it to the dead Overholser Green proposal. Hardly Victory, but still significant height, especially for Bricktown.

Here's the original report:


The application filed by Bricktown Apartments LLC., a partnership between developer Gary Brooks and Andy Burnett, proposes a four-story complex along the north side of Sheridan Avenue between Joe Carter Avenue and Lincoln Boulevard on the former site of Stewart Metal.

If the deal is successful, it also will include a 160-room, eight-story hotel at the corner of Joe Carter and Sheridan Avenues and structured parking.


Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-will-consider-4.5-million-federal-grant-for-workforce-housing-in-east-bricktown/article/3653798#ixzz1xIUYOaRi

I hope the 420 Sheridan building does not get demolished.

I wouldn't worry about that. My understanding is that there are no plans for demolishing 420 at this time.

This is great! Happy to see these eyesore buildings come down.

My question is who owns the railroad, and will it be removed?

This is great! Happy to see these eyesore buildings come down.

My question is who owns the railroad, and will it be removed?

Union Pacific owns the tracks and it is doubtful that they will be removed. That corridor is our future connection toe NE side, Del City, Midwest City, and Tinker Air Force Base for commuter rail to Santa-Fe Station.

Union Pacific owns the tracks and it is doubtful that they will be removed. That corridor is our future connection toe NE side, Del City, Midwest City, and Tinker Air Force Base for commuter rail to Santa-Fe Station.

Also, the way those tracks come online with the BNSF mainline, it seems to me that future commuter sets running on this line will have a front AND back engine/operator because of the way the tracks are aligned (there's nowhere to turn the danged thing around).

We're planning a southbound ramp.

We're planning a southbound ramp.

Hope you post graphics on here when those become available. 8 years?

Application before the Bricktown Design Review for their next meeting of 7/11 details exactly which buildings they are planning to demolish and has received the approval of their staff.

Buildings to be demo'd are show in yellow, blue are others owned by the present owner (Robert Meinders) and green are OCURA properties:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/steelyard2.jpg

Pete,

Are there any renderings out there? If not, will they need to present renderings to the board before they get approved to demolish those buildings? If there are some on this thread, i apologize as I have not located them.

Pete,

Are there any renderings out there? If not, will they need to present renderings to the board before they get approved to demolish those buildings? If there are some on this thread, i apologize as I have not located them.

Renderings are not required for demolition. In fact, legal counsel for the City always insists that the review boards cannot consider future development when reviewing demolition, because the City cannot hold the applicant to their word that the new project will be constructed.

Not saying I agree with that... but that's the way it's done currently.

Meinders is taking it upon himself to demolish buildings. He is paying for the demolition, not Brooks. I am sure Meinders and Brooks have some sort of agreement, that involves Meinders demolishing the buildings, knowing Brooks will be purchasing the land from him. With that being said, the BDRC does not need to see renderings to approve demolition. We probably won't see renderings until it comes time for Brooks to acquire the OCURA portion of the land, because they will want to see renderings before they make a transaction, just like with the Edge @ Midtown.

I wouldn't be surprised if the apartment portion of the development is just the Edge @ Midtown lite, lol...

that makes since, thanks walker.

Drove by the site today on my lunch break, it looks a lot bigger in person, it has a lot of potential, let's hope Brooks does it right. Moreover, the buildings directly south across the street will be demolished also, but it will not be part of this residential development. But those lots are pretty big also, and could hold another mixed-use development.

*I also saw some people with shovels at the proposed Brooks site, looks like they were regular people, not construction workers, but it seems they were shoveling up glass?

Is this development actually going to happen?

Is this development actually going to happen?

Well nothing is a sure thing thing until the lights come on and people move in....

With that said, the project is not dead...

Depends on if they get the necessary public financing to move the extensive storm water drainage network underneath the complex.

How likely is that to happen? Weren't they waiting on a federal grant or something like that?

Well nothing is a sure thing thing until the lights come on and people move in....

With that said, the project is not dead...

Who ever said it was dead? They haven't even come up with renderings. Relax people. What we have here is a development that you all found out about way too early - this is why Lackmeyer, other respectable sources, et al., don't mouth out more often about potential upcoming development projects. These things are very complicated and take time, and this particular project has a lot of federal processes attached to it, with Brooks has quality experience with. In fact Brooks is the only one downtown with this much HUD experience.

Who ever said it was dead? They haven't even come up with renderings. Relax people. What we have here is a development that you all found out about way too early - this is why Lackmeyer, other respectable sources, et al., don't mouth out more often about potential upcoming development projects. These things are very complicated and take time, and this particular project has a lot of federal processes attached to it, with Brooks has quality experience with. In fact Brooks is the only one downtown with this much HUD experience.

Spartan, re-read what I said. I said it was not dead. That's not to say that I mean it's not alive either. It's too soon to call it "alive" for the purposes of this forum (I.E. dirt about to turn, excitement building). My comment was a direct reply to the statement of is this actually going to happen. "It's not dead..." (implying it's moving forward but too soon to call it a sure deal)

Spartan, that's a touch arrogant to say that it's something we found out about way too soon. This board is very good at learning of projects in their infancy and we can talk about how legitimate the prospects are. Perhaps, rather than ragging on people for having a conversation about exciting possibilities, you could share what some of the federal processes are and why it might take so long. I understand that posters can be impatient, but to interpret that as anything but excitement for what might be in the pipeline isn't necessary.

Spartan, re-read what I said. I said it was not dead. That's not to say that I mean it's not alive either. It's too soon to call it "alive" for the purposes of this forum (I.E. dirt about to turn, excitement building). My comment was a direct reply to the statement of is this actually going to happen. "It's not dead..." (implying it's moving forward but too soon to call it a sure deal)

Sorry, my post wasn't directed at you. Just this general notion that we're not allowed to have any confidence in new development in Bricktown. People need to relax, Pitman's new hotel will break ground, this is moving forward too, more stuff is coming soon in the general area... all is well that ends well lol

http://newsok.com/stewart-metal-fabricators-buildings-coming-down/multimedia/video/1730884719001

http://newsok.com/stewart-metal-fabricators-buildings-coming-down/multimedia/video/1730884719001

That's one demolition I don't object to.

That's one demolition I don't object to. Agreed! This will definite clean up the east side of Bricktown. Hope this development does happen and that it will be a great, quality one for Bricktown!

http://newsok.com/stewart-metal-fabricators-buildings-coming-down/multimedia/video/1730884719001

Do we know the timeline for demolition (sorry if it's in that video--the video isn't playing for me for some reason)?

The only reference to a timeline that I heard was that they're waiting on all the necessary permits, a process which will probably take anywhere from 2 - 4 months, depending on what happens.