The expense of moving the sewer line, from everything I'm seeing and hearing, makes this sort of arrangement the only way to make anything significant (other than a sea of surface parking) possible on this property.

I was thinking over breakfast at all of the amazing development that's starting to sweep across downtown, and I had a profound idea, I think: Why don't this development and Chris Johnson do a land swap?

I was thinking over breakfast at all of the amazing development that's starting to sweep across downtown, and I had a profound idea, I think: Why don't this development and Chris Johnson do a land swap?

Ha. Perfect!!

Negotiations to proceed for $4.5 million grant for Bricktown housing (http://newsok.com/negotiations-to-proceed-for-4.5-million-grant-for-bricktown-housing/article/3655249#ixzz1oOcbgZ5j)

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com
Published: March 7, 2012

An Oklahoma City Council committee unanimously agreed Tuesday to allow city planners to begin negotiating an agreement for $4.5 million in federal Neighborhood Stabilization Program funds to be used in building a 249-unit apartment complex in east Bricktown.

The key thing to take away from that article is that rents would start at $568 according to the terms of the grant.

Ran into Bob Meinders last night at the Thunder game and we talked at length about this development during halftime. He was very excited about the project, tempered with understandable caution. I don't imagine he'd want all of the details blurted out on a message board, but Steve's reporting appears to be on point, as usual.

I wonder if news of this development will slow down momentum of sales at the Hill. I also wonder why the Hill people didn't see this coming and get this land from Meinders early on, as it is the largest unpaved & undeveloped lot in Bricktown.

I don't know of too many cities that worry about having affordable downtown housing. Again, the risk is what is done to make it affordable. Do we give them a pass on making the structure entirely brick, despite it being in Bricktown? Or, do they cut corners elsewhere? Do we end up with a shoddy apartment complex that even those who want affordable housing won't want to live in 10 years from now? Does our 4.5 million in tax monies allow them to build affordable housing that doesn't look or act affordable? Or, do they still build poor quality housing despite the subsidy and pocket the profits? It's tricky to oversee to make sure that doesn't happen. Again, I like to see new projects downtown, but I want them to stand the test of time, and sometimes that doesn't go along with the affordable concept. What's affordable in Manhattan, downtown Chicago or San Francisco? When I was a young adult, my affordable near downtown housing in Denver was an aged townhouse that had fallen into disrepair, in a neighborhood that was barely gentrified. I didn't think it was my birthright to have the local taxpayers subsidize a new building with all the amenities.

Betts, I've asked Brooks and Burnett about this. They are aware their project will be subject to the same Bricktown Urban Design standards that governed the Hampton Inn, McDonald's and other projects that were forced to up their brick facade use. They say their facade will be mostly brick.
I think there is also a lot of misunderstanding about what this grand will and won't do...

I wonder if news of this development will slow down momentum of sales at the Hill. I also wonder why the Hill people didn't see this coming and get this land from Meinders early on, as it is the largest unpaved & undeveloped lot in Bricktown.

It actually should help because it will provide future buyers for people currently living at The Hill and will hopefully attract more 'basic needs' suppliers to the area. One of the great things about urban living in an area with multiple levels of housing is that people can live their entire life in the same neighborhood as the life situation and economic levels change. A student might live in the East Brciktown Complex today, move to The Level after graduation, then get married and buy a unit at The Hill. All the while they can eat in the same restraunts and even sit at the same seat. In 30 years they can watch their kids sit in the same booth with their family. They might even get to know the owner and service staff by name.

Could they reserve the most affordable prices for ACM@UCO students? It would be cool if a couple floors were student housing.

I wonder if news of this development will slow down momentum of sales at the Hill. I also wonder why the Hill people didn't see this coming and get this land from Meinders early on, as it is the largest unpaved & undeveloped lot in Bricktown.

I think that the people buying at the Hill would have the same concerns I have. Is this going to be a high quality development, or will it, sooner rather than later, be an ugly run-down property? That would affect their property values somewhat, although anyone living in an urban area has to accept the fact that you don't get the uniformity of neighbors that you would expect in the suburbs. After all, they've got the Broadway Extension as one of their neighbors, and I have Ruedy's Garage, something that would never be tolerated by a suburban dweller in homes of those prices. That still wouldn't make me excited about a badly built development. However, Steve has allayed many of my concerns. Thanks!

If the implication is that people would rather rent than buy, and people will choose to live in the new development rather than buying at the Hill, I think you're probably looking at two different populations

Could they reserve the most affordable prices for ACM@UCO students? It would be cool if a couple floors were student housing.

I suppose they could if there was someone to guarantee income on the units. From the operator perspective, unemployed or part-time employed students are not stronger tenants than the steadily employed service professionals or hotel housekeepers or entry level DT clerks.

I think the project will turn out fine. With financial help securing the land, and with facade being mostly brick, more than likely they will cut corners on the inside. With the Edge @ Midtown being mostly brick, it very well could be like The Edge @ Midtown, but with cheaper fixtures and amenities.

Just a reminder - only a small percentage of the units will be 'affordable'. I don't think there will be 'cheaper' anything. The guidelines I have seen suggest that no more than 10% of any development should be dedicated to 'affordable' housing- which in this case would be in the 20 unit range. One of the goals of urban development is to avoid the concentration of people based on income levels. That is what suburbia is for and what New Urbanism is trying to correct.

Negotiations to proceed for $4.5 million grant for Bricktown housing (http://newsok.com/negotiations-to-proceed-for-4.5-million-grant-for-bricktown-housing/article/3655249#ixzz1oOcbgZ5j)

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com
Published: March 7, 2012

An Oklahoma City Council committee unanimously agreed Tuesday to allow city planners to begin negotiating an agreement for $4.5 million in federal Neighborhood Stabilization Program funds to be used in building a 249-unit apartment complex in east Bricktown.

thanks for the correction just the facts ..

this is on the City council Neighborhood conservation committee http://okc.gov/council/council_library/neighborhood_conservation/agenda.pdf

action summary is page 3 and the recap of this project is on pages 37-40

this is a 249 unit project with 38 of the units NSP3 (Neighborhood stabilization program phase three) with 8k sqft of retail

total project cost is projected at 34.6 mil (not including the hotel) pretty much the same cost as the Edge at Midtown

the property is under contract and the developer would have to close by sept 2012

the city hopes that this deal will close by july ..

what am i missing here Steve .. the only action i see is a is a 2-0 vote to defer to the next meeting??



That was the Feb 28 vote.

That was the Feb 28 vote.

thanks ... reading is maybe a little important

If my calculations are correct, this would be on the most expensive recent housing developments downtown U/C:

Bricktown East Apartments ($35 million)
Bricktown East Hotel (?)
Hilton/Garden Inn ($32 million)
The Edge @ Midtown ($31 million)
Level Urban Apartments ($24 million)
Aloft @ Deep Deuce ($18 million)
Maywood Apartments ($18 million) ????

this is pretty amazing, if all of these come to fruition...

edge at midtown is up to 34mil ..

Carnegie Centre is already underway and total project cost will be about $15 million.

Carnegie Centre is already underway and total project cost will be about $15 million.

Underway with construction? Not that I have seen.

Soon if not already... Big building permit was issued a couple of weeks ago.

Might be hard for me to see considering it is a lot of interior work.

Carnegie Centre is already underway and total project cost will be about $15 million.

Carnegie Center?

Carnegie CenTRE -- the old English spelling makes it extra classy!

It's the old downtown library.

Carnegie Center?

the old downtown library building .. across from the brantif building

Have there been any renderings of this proposal anywhere? Probably jumping the gun a bit with the question though...

I think the article said there would be a proposal in the summer.

Just a reminder - only a small percentage of the units will be 'affordable'. I don't think there will be 'cheaper' anything. The guidelines I have seen suggest that no more than 10% of any development should be dedicated to 'affordable' housing- which in this case would be in the 20 unit range. One of the goals of urban development is to avoid the concentration of people based on income levels. That is what suburbia is for and what New Urbanism is trying to correct.

Dead on.

Carnegie CenTRE -- the old English spelling makes it extra classy!

It's the old downtown library.


the old downtown library building .. across from the brantif building

Gotcha. Thanks ;-)

just over 15% will be below market rate .....

This is a very exciting project and it almost seems like this is going under the radar. Reminds me of when Pete made a comment on Okctalk about Okc turning the corner.

Has Okc really gotten to a point that an announcement of a project this size is expected and doesn't generate much excitement?

If this project goes as planned Bricktown could have 4 new hotels under construction simultaneously. WOW!

This is a very exciting project and it almost seems like this is going under the radar. Reminds me of when Pete made a comment on Okctalk about Okc turning the corner.

Has Okc really gotten to a point that an announcement of a project this size is expected and doesn't generate much excitement?

If this project goes as planned Bricktown could have 4 new hotels under construction simultaneously. WOW!

We're just all cautiously optimistic as so many things have fallen through in the past. When renderings come out, there will be much more buzz.

We're just all cautiously optimistic as so many things have fallen through in the past. When renderings come out, there will be much more buzz.

That project on the corner of the canal had renderings and it fizzled away. Cautiously optimistic for sure...

That project on the corner of the canal had renderings and it fizzled away. Cautiously optimistic for sure...

True, I'm not saying that with renderings comes more assuredness that it will happen, just that it will generate more conversation.

....Meanwhile the Mystery Tower thread is buzzing at full speed.

....Meanwhile the Mystery Tower thread is buzzing at full speed.

The Mystery Tower thread has more flame wars than it does actual speculation, that's why it has been buzzing the past few days. LOL

The article mentioned it would be 4 stories. I hope this project, if built, has an eye toward density. The sheet metal buildings are a terrible eyesore, and this is undoubtedly a huge improvement if built well. But this is excellent property. I had always hoped for a West Village type development here - perhaps 4 stories of apartments on top of a retail level, and perhaps a level or two of office for a combined 6 stores.

It says 4 stories plus structured parking (which will probably face the train tracks) and an 8 story hotel at the corner. 4 stories will make a very nice street wall and an 8 story building on the corner will make a very good landmark (especially with a 10 story hotel on the other corner. The intersection of Sheridan and Joe Carter is going to come alive.

Might even be worth looking at a new name for Joe Carter, or having a very persuasive public discourse about why that is a good street name...

Might even be worth looking at a new name for Joe Carter, or having a very persuasive public discourse about why that is a good street name...

I'm not sure why you would think that the street name might be open for discussion. Joe Carter is a native of OKC who was named to 5 baseball allstar teams. Having his name on a street near the ballpark is appropriate. Why would anyone want to change the name?

Yeah. I'm also confused. Joe Carter, who was a great player with one of the biggest homeruns in baseball history, is a very appropriate person to have this street named after:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwxuquJ3xxE

I'm not sure why you would think that the street name might be open for discussion. Joe Carter is a native of OKC who was named to 5 baseball allstar teams. Having his name on a street near the ballpark is appropriate. Why would anyone want to change the name?

Obviously he's not a sports fanatic, LOL. I'm not even a baseball fan myself, but I'm well aware of Joe Carter.

I grew up playing baseball with Joe and not only is he a fantastic athlete, he's one of the nicest, most humble people you'll ever meet.

I can't believe anybody would want to remove his name from a city street.

How about renaming it Spartan Avenue? ;-)

Might even be worth looking at a new name for Joe Carter, or having a very persuasive public discourse about why that is a good street name...

Horrible idea. Joe Carter is a legend. Great baseball player. Being a Canadian, you should know that.

Might even be worth looking at a new name for Joe Carter, or having a very persuasive public discourse about why that is a good street name...

http://i2.listal.com/image/3170265/600full-poster.jpg

Great. So we've got alleys named after civil rights legends and a hometown band that made it huge, and we have what could potentially become an important frontage for a baseball star that only people who collect baseball cards remember.

Great. So we've got alleys named after civil rights legends and a hometown band that made it huge, and we have what could potentially become an important frontage for a baseball star that only people who collect baseball cards remember.

I would question whether more people know the Flaming Lips than Joe Carter. I'm only 27, so it isn't an age thing for me.

So is this a street named after someone who is middle-aged right now? Correct me if I'm wrong, and not that I wish any baseball figures to be dead or anything horrible like that, but this almost seems even worse than some tacky naming ploys enacted by certain ag colleges...

Regardless of what an amazing baseball player that non-baseball folks have never heard of before, I just hate to see the city miss up on an opportunity to create an intersection with Oklahoma City Boulevard and Oklahoma City Avenue...

Yeah, let's just go ahead and change the names of Robinson, Classen & EK Gaylord. Those happen to be famous Oklahoma Citians too, just cause Carter's not in a box 6 feet deep doesn't mean he can't have a street named after him.

Great. So we've got alleys named after civil rights legends and a hometown band that made it huge, and we have what could potentially become an important frontage for a baseball star that only people who collect baseball cards remember.

Spartan, there are clearly days when you post from your angry chair and today seems to be one of them.

Spartan, there are clearly days when you post from your angry chair and today seems to be one of them.

This. I usually understand Spartan's points even if I don't agree. I think he's having a bad day. There are plenty of other streets that could be named after other people anyway. It's great that Joe Carter is recognized by his hometown.

Actually, I think the Flaming Lips PREFER a thoroughfare named after them be an alley! They are kind of quirky like that.......

So is this a street named after someone who is middle-aged right now? Correct me if I'm wrong, and not that I wish any baseball figures to be dead or anything horrible like that, but this almost seems even worse than some tacky naming ploys enacted by certain ag colleges...

Dude, you lost this point. Don't keep pressing. You are out on the end of the limb and sawing.

I think a road named "Sparta" would be cool. Just saying...

Hey, how about those new apartments eh? That is going to be some sweet action. Any word on whether or not any school is going to try to put dibs on any of the units for student housing? Does the federal money prohibit those kinds of deals?

Would this road have nothing but curves and deadends.

Dude, you lost this point. Don't keep pressing. You are out on the end of the limb and sawing.

+1

I'm not sure where Spartan was going with this part of the discussion but I am not in favor of naming any public object after anyone who hasn't been dead 50 years. I prefer names related to origin, function, location, or sequence. Of course, you might could make the arguement that 'Joe Carter' is location related - after all it is right next to a baseball stadium and he was a baseball player.

I'm not sure where Spartan was going with this part of the discussion but I am not in favor of naming any public object after anyone who hasn't been dead 50 years. I prefer names related to origin, function, location, or sequence. Of course, you might could make the arguement that 'Joe Carter' is location related - after all it is right next to a baseball stadium and he was a baseball player.

There go the Reagan and Bush airports. I guess the Kennedy Center is gone too. And anything named after Martin Luther King that doesn't directly relate to civil rights is out.