Hot Rod, contacting power lines with a ladder (ground or ladder truck) = REAL BAD DAY. Basically be careful when operating around power lines. One of my early memories about !-35 and Covel was when they were doing the building of the interchange, a large dump truck ran into some power lines with the bed in the up (dump) position. The driver jumped free of the truck and was ok but the truck had the lines and poles pulled down at a 45 degree angle. Lots of fire works going on from the power lines. The power was eventually shut off and the truck backed away. Should have seen the power lines snap back like an over stretched rubber band.

Looks like the funds for this from TIF #2 have been approved. From the summary (http://www.okc.gov/councilnotes/2015/cn010615.html) of today's council meeting:


Steelyard area receives $4M in TIF funds

The Steelyard residential development in Deep Deuce will receive more than $4 million in infrastructure development and other improvements after the Council voted Tuesday to allocate tax increment finance district (TIF) funds for the project. TIF No. 2, a TIF district in the downtown and Bricktown area, generated the $4 million in funding. TIF districts allow the City to spend a portion of property tax revenue on improvement projects in and nearby the TIF district. The Steelyard will have 250 residential units, a 355-space parking garage and at least 17,655 square feet of mixed use space. Of the TIF funds to be allocated, $1 million will be in the form of a low-interest loan to be repaid over 10 years.

In theory the discussion of this is in council meeting video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzcIFGidn8Y), but I haven't tracked down the exact timestamp yet.

Any chance of that rail line behind the Steelyard to be reconnected to the main N/S line if the Tulsa connection ever happens?

Any chance of that rail line behind the Steelyard to be reconnected to the main N/S line if the Tulsa connection ever happens?

That's up to Union Pacific Railroad, which still owns the bridge that connects these lines. That's why if you've seen commuter rail renderings, there is a proposed bridge that curves to the south toward the Santa Fe Station.

The site map at the top of this thread has a site designated for future hotel. Now that there will be two separate hotels in the development, are they altering the design of the apartments or will it have the two hotels side by side?

The site map at the top of this thread has a site designated for future hotel. Now that there will be two separate hotels in the development, are they altering the design of the apartments or will it have the two hotels side by side?

The hotel developer is still purchasing the same parcel as outlined.

Pretty sure the plan is to put the hotels side-by-side with structured parking to the north.

There had been talk about "dual-flag" ala the nearby Hilton Garden Inn and Homewood Suites, but I believe in this case the hotels will be physically separate.

The hotel developer is still purchasing the same parcel as outlined.

Pretty sure the plan is to put the hotels side-by-side with structured parking to the north.

There had been talk about "dual-flag" ala the nearby Hilton Garden Inn and Homewood Suites, but I believe in this case the hotels will be physically separate.

Which is good, both can have louges and possibly restaurants, supplying amenities to the adjacent apartments. It's a win.

This project will be the coolest location in the entire state of Oklahoma when finished. A complete game changer to the day and night scene. It will create more excitement, energy and sense of place than any entire district. I can't wait until its finished.

But, but......they tore down old buildings!

But, but......they tore down old buildings!

If you can't tell the different between buildings with architecture that can't/won't ever be built again versus ordinary metal warehouses then I don't think anyone can help you.

He's trying to sarcastically make the point that preservationists are ridiculous sentimental building huggers, obstructionists who hold up progress by clinging to old buildings regardless of value. And yet, he is unintentionally proving that this is NOT the case by pointing out demolitions that weren't protested by anyone. Oops.

Yep, that was a fail on Mugs part. Not only was the removal not protested, but it was championed by the urbanist (both old and new). Now if the Steelyard proposal had been a suburban design or wall of parking garages along Sheridan then protests would have been loud, not because of what was removed, but because of what was proposed.

You know, maybe that is the root of the problem in the CBD. The people supporting Hines and Devon can't fathom the idea that people think their architects suck so they have to invent some reason why people don't like their proposal.

Free access now

Bricktown in Oklahoma City will get two hotels with 300 total rooms | News OK (http://newsok.com/bricktown-in-oklahoma-city-will-get-two-hotels-with-300-total-rooms/article/5385584)

January 15 2015

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2/12/2015

Not much is going on. Still primary working on the street.

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Wow. This is looking really impressive.

Denver-esque. Just add transit.

Wow. This is looking really impressive.

Denver-esque. Just add transit.

It's funny you say that, cause I believe this is going to be the one development in okc that creates so much place that it will scream Oklahoma City. I think its that big of a deal that it won't even be able to be compared to anywhere else.

It's funny you say that, cause I believe this is going to be the one development in okc that creates so much place that it will scream Oklahoma City. I think its that big of a deal that it won't even be able to be compared to anywhere else.

Hopefully you are correct. If for no other reason than it gets tiring that every time there's a development in OKC someone has to post how it reminds them of another city.

3/18/2015

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OKC Council approves $4M in TIF funds for Steelyard | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2015/03/31/council-approves-4m-in-tif-funds-for-steelyard-real-estate/)

First Look at Bricktown's Steelyard Hotels | News OK (http://newsok.com/first-look-at-bricktowns-steelyard-hotels/article/5408149)

I have to say I'm excited. I know there will always be complaints on any design or layout but its hard to complain with two nice hotels being included in what is my favorite downtown development right now. I didn't see a date mentioned but I would hope work would start by the summer. I'm also very interested to see what restaurant they are going to get here. My only hope is it not a steakhouse and instead something the district needs. This may be a little off topic but I love to watch cooking shows and see big time chefs that run hotel restaurants and have made a name for themselves. Something like that would be great here. Some great cuisine that helps show OKC has diverse food options.

Both AC and Hyatt Place are very nice brands and since this group did such a nice job with the Holiday Inn Express (both owners and architects) you can bet these hotels will be very nice.

I suppose the plan is to park the cars in the nearby surface lot and then use valet, which is fantastic. More room for buildings and less for cars; and using spaces that already exist.

PF Chang's would be a good addition to the area if they go for a moderate price range.

Man the Steelyard Hotels are going to be sharp! Sadly it makes the sorry proposal that is Spring Hill Suites stick out more though. Can't wait until this is done, as well as the Brownstones in Deep Deuce done, this will really tie Deep Deuce in with Bricktown just about completely.

Man the Steelyard Hotels are going to be sharp! Sadly it makes the sorry proposal that is Spring Hill Suites stick out more though. Can't wait until this is done, as well as the Brownstones in Deep Deuce done, this will really tie Deep Deuce in with Bricktown just about completely.

You mean The Hill. The Brownstones are between Walnut and Oklahoma.


It's funny you say that, cause I believe this is going to be the one development in okc that creates so much place that it will scream Oklahoma City. I think its that big of a deal that it won't even be able to be compared to anywhere else.


Hopefully you are correct. If for no other reason than it gets tiring that every time there's a development in OKC someone has to post how it reminds them of another city.

I don't disagree, and I hope that these posts ring true in a few years. Not to get my hopes up, but I am cautiously optimistic that this development will complete some of the urban revitalization that we have been expecting in Bricktown. Ironically, once this is built-out, the attention really turns back to the west end of Bricktown and the Canal where things started and then faltered.

All that said, I hate to say Denver-esque when we want urban development to form the unique image of OKC. However as OKC slowly evolves into an urban animal, people are going to realize that Denver and OKC aren't all that different... similar territorial architectural/design heritage (although ours is rapidly being erased unlike Denver), similar topography and flora (although Denver has mountains in the distance), and similar "vibe" when you mix in eco/green/sustainable/active ingredients like bikeshare, rail transit, trails, etc.

They aren't putting a1 story building at the corner of Sheridan and Joe Carter are they?

I think so, but it might be a nice relief in the monolithic compilation of mid-rises in that area. In the corner above the restaurant and in between the two mid-rises, I'd like to see some cool placemaking elements like signage, public art, or even an Echelman sculpture like in Phoenix.

http://greatfoodfunplaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1969193_10153850027855788_663656547_n.jpg

Or the Bricktown Association could hang a massive brick above the restaurant (or at least a half-brick veneer), since it is Brick Town.

Or something like P&L's use of reliefs in massing to install placemaking elements.
http://onelightkc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1.-Daytime-Polished-Edge.jpg
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You mean The Hill. The Brownstones are between Walnut and Oklahoma.





I don't disagree, and I hope that these posts ring true in a few years. Not to get my hopes up, but I am cautiously optimistic that this development will complete some of the urban revitalization that we have been expecting in Bricktown. Ironically, once this is built-out, the attention really turns back to the west end of Bricktown and the Canal where things started and then faltered.

All that said, I hate to say Denver-esque when we want urban development to form the unique image of OKC. However as OKC slowly evolves into an urban animal, people are going to realize that Denver and OKC aren't all that different... similar territorial architectural/design heritage (although ours is rapidly being erased unlike Denver), similar topography and flora (although Denver has mountains in the distance), and similar "vibe" when you mix in eco/green/sustainable/active ingredients like bikeshare, rail transit, trails, etc.


You mean The Hill. The Brownstones are between Walnut and Oklahoma.





I don't disagree, and I hope that these posts ring true in a few years. Not to get my hopes up, but I am cautiously optimistic that this development will complete some of the urban revitalization that we have been expecting in Bricktown. Ironically, once this is built-out, the attention really turns back to the west end of Bricktown and the Canal where things started and then faltered.

All that said, I hate to say Denver-esque when we want urban development to form the unique image of OKC. However as OKC slowly evolves into an urban animal, people are going to realize that Denver and OKC aren't all that different... similar territorial architectural/design heritage (although ours is rapidly being erased unlike Denver), similar topography and flora (although Denver has mountains in the distance), and similar "vibe" when you mix in eco/green/sustainable/active ingredients like bikeshare, rail transit, trails, etc.

Steelyard does remind me of many projects in Denver. Although there are probably 25-30 projects in Denver of this scale either recently completed or under construction, Steelyard would certainly be one of the better ones if in Denver, it would fit in nicely in the River North area.

I could see OKC following a similar path to Denver. I would say Denver has about a 15 year head start but the Denver of the very late '90s isn't all that much different than OKC today. I'm not sure OKC will ever be an attractive place for the type of migration that Denver has(because of said mountains) but I see no reason why OKC can't have a similar vibe on a smaller scale.

I've said many times that Denver is the closest corollary to OKC, in terms of following their example.

That's because it's terrain is very similar: No navigable water, pretty flat (in the city itself), energy business, etc.

As much as we all love Portland or Austin, they are really nothing like OKC. Denver is very much like OKC in so many ways and is a far, far better model than Dallas, which is also similar but nothing to aspire to.

Charlotte also has similarities.

They had a disastrous urban renewal debacle there and there wasn't much history left. OKC actually has more historic building stock left than Charlotte does. In the 1980s, much of downtown was surface parking or grass lots. They had a small skyline and then after the Bank of America towers was built in the mid '90s, a building boom began over the next 20 years. No navigable water there either and the city itself is pretty flat. There are mountains and the beach but they are both hours away. The city built the bustling, vibrant core it currently has all but from scratch. They did everything OKC is currently doing, they are just 25 years down the road.

I don't want Charlotte, and Pete is right that Dallas is nothing to aspire to, while Portland may not be realistic. I now understand why some on here resent hearing OKC compared to other cities. We all see different things in other cities. That said, Denver is both very similar and something we can aspire to.

Or even Salt Lake City, which is an NBA town that got our light rail system.

I don't want Charlotte, and Pete is right that Dallas is nothing to aspire to, while Portland may not be realistic. I now understand why some on here resent hearing OKC compared to other cities. We all see different things in other cities. That said, Denver is both very similar and something we can aspire to.

Or even Salt Lake City, which is an NBA town that got our light rail system.

Hopefully Denver without the ridiculously high real estate prices at present. :-)

I have a friend who moved to Denver a month ago from Charlotte who says there is no comparison between the vibrancy of the two cities. At least according to him, Charlotte is a 9-5 downtown.

I think once OKC starts building some for-sale product downtown the city should take off.

My neighbor is originally from Denver. He told he visited OKC recently, so naturally, I asked him his impressions. He said he was pleasantly surprised and commented that it reminded him of Denver in many ways. He particularly liked Bricktown.

I live in Denver and my parents live in OKC. Pre-Coors Field Denver was very similar to present idea OKC with a few more buildings. Along with Coors Field, the Convention Center and a few other projects that brought residential closer to the CBD really changed the trajectory of downtown.

I think also, no offense to any particular ahem poster(s), but people on here are tired of hearing about cities that start with 'C.' Charlotte, Cleveland, you know... lol. The only C-places we should be discussing here are The City, as Gary England (or my family) would say.


Hopefully Denver without the ridiculously high real estate prices at present. :-)

I have a friend who moved to Denver a month ago from Charlotte who says there is no comparison between the vibrancy of the two cities. At least according to him, Charlotte is a 9-5 downtown.

I think once OKC starts building some for-sale product downtown the city should take off.

The second challenge you point out can only be solved by embracing the first challenge you point out. A funny thing about how housing work is that it is the most expensive purchase any of us will ever make in our lives, and it is for most of us, the biggest investment we make in our life.

We need appreciation. Instead we have depreciation because, despite what a powerful force for good that the market can be, we choose to be governed by powerful forces that intentionally keep cities retrograde. What this means is that we have this gutter-craze, or race to the bottom, or whatever you'd call it, where we aspire to have a housing market that is systemically hemorrhaging value to the point that you are financially screwed if you DON'T move every 5 years.

People wrongly think that low housing costs are attractive. No successful city has been held back by high costs, while a ton of unsuccessful cities have been held back by low costs. People also wrongly think that housing appreciation causes displacement (gentrification), whereas in reality the only thing that prevents displacement is home ownership (which creates value for people who own their home). We have all of these structural mechanisms that erode values and hold people back.

In the Rust Belt, where the primary market issue is sprawl coupled with low growth, growth boundaries are potentially a great solution. In Portland and Minneapolis, growth boundaries did lead to a spike in home values leading to affordability issues. For the rest of us, i.e., 90% of America, that would be a good problem to have. It's a lot harder to create value where there is none.

I think also, no offense to any particular ahem poster(s), but people on here are tired of hearing about cities that start with 'C.' Charlotte, Cleveland, you know... lol. The only C-places we should be discussing here are The City, as Gary England (or my family) would say.



The second challenge you point out can only be solved by embracing the first challenge you point out. A funny thing about how housing work is that it is the most expensive purchase any of us will ever make in our lives, and it is for most of us, the biggest investment we make in our life.

We need appreciation. Instead we have depreciation because, despite what a powerful force for good that the market can be, we choose to be governed by powerful forces that intentionally keep cities retrograde. What this means is that we have this gutter-craze, or race to the bottom, or whatever you'd call it, where we aspire to have a housing market that is systemically hemorrhaging value to the point that you are financially screwed if you DON'T move every 5 years.

People wrongly think that low housing costs are attractive. No successful city has been held back by high costs, while a ton of unsuccessful cities have been held back by low costs. People also wrongly think that housing appreciation causes displacement (gentrification), whereas in reality the only thing that prevents displacement is home ownership (which creates value for people who own their home). We have all of these structural mechanisms that erode values and hold people back.

In the Rust Belt, where the primary market issue is sprawl coupled with low growth, growth boundaries are potentially a great solution. In Portland and Minneapolis, growth boundaries did lead to a spike in home values leading to affordability issues. For the rest of us, i.e., 90% of America, that would be a good problem to have. It's a lot harder to create value where there is none.

Fair points and for the most part I agree, but unless you are in San Fran, DC, NYC, I don't think having median home prices at over 5 times the median family income is a sustainable model for creating a thriving, diverse city. The median home price in Denver is $289 sq/ft right now, downtown is closer to $475 sq/ft.

Fair points and for the most part I agree, but unless you are in San Fran, DC, NYC, I don't think having median home prices at over 5 times the median family income is a sustainable model for creating a thriving, diverse city. The median home price in Denver is $289 sq/ft right now, downtown is closer to $475 sq/ft.

That's amazing. Thanks for the data. Denver's housing stock is also pretty similar to ours ("historic" homes are mostly 20s/30s Bungalows, newer homes are often ranch with Western influences whether it be CA contemporary or mountain lodge), at least until recently (they have condos en masse, whereas it's still a niche here mostly held back by archaic HOA laws).

If Guthrie had developed into Oklahoma's major city, the similarities between the two metros would have been much more, provided of course Guthrie hadn't brought in I.M. Pei to set the civic priorities for the next 50 years...

That's amazing. Thanks for the data. Denver's housing stock is also pretty similar to ours ("historic" homes are mostly 20s/30s Bungalows, newer homes are often ranch with Western influences whether it be CA contemporary or mountain lodge), at least until recently (they have condos en masse, whereas it's still a niche here mostly held back by archaic HOA laws).

If Guthrie had developed into Oklahoma's major city, the similarities between the two metros would have been much more, provided of course Guthrie hadn't brought in I.M. Pei to set the civic priorities for the next 50 years...

The older neighborhoods of Denver and OKC are extremely similar.

Denver had its own bout of "urban renewal" in the 60s where over 27 square blocks of historic downtown building stock were razed in favor of parking lots. Ironically, I.M. Pei designed the 16th Street Mall in Denver, which is the #1 tourist attraction in the city (though most locals can't stand it).

Hopefully Denver without the ridiculously high real estate prices at present. :-)

I have a friend who moved to Denver a month ago from Charlotte who says there is no comparison between the vibrancy of the two cities. At least according to him, Charlotte is a 9-5 downtown.

I think once OKC starts building some for-sale product downtown the city should take off.

Interesting. When I first moved out to Charlotte I was blown away by its vibrancy and level of street activity. I have heard other people from larger cities say that it is underwhelming however. Charlotte was my first experience as an adult in a major city where I actually paid attention to things like urbanity and street life so that might warp my perception a bit.

I guess it really depends on perspective. Denver may completely blow away Charlotte's street life and consistency. Downtown Charlotte does have its off nights where it is kind of quiet. In terms of perspective, compared to OKC, downtown Dallas seems bustling but even it's quiet compared to Minneapolis. Likewise, Minneapolis is quiet compared to San Francisco or NYC.

As for sale housing, I think OKC is over a decade past-due for a major announcement. Hopefully soon developers will have enough confidence in the market to build condos.

Condos are outmoded. High end apartments are what developers do in 2015.

Just for clarification, when you guys say build condos or for sale apartments (really no difference IMO), are you talking about en masse? Because urban OKC has a few thousand, and I happen to own one. I'm assuming you mean on larger scale?

There are at least a half dozen for-sale projects coming to the core in the next 6 months or so.

All of the small to medium size.

And all about $250-$275 per square foot.

You can see the old brick drainage pipe.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03666_zpsfg64gmqy.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03666_zpsfg64gmqy.jpg.html)

^^^

That is a cool picture.

How the heck do you build a brick drainage pipe? Does it start with a temporary form like you do with an arch?

That would be my guess. However it's done, that was the state of the art for a couple of thousand years. If you looked some existing sewers in Paris or Rome, they look exactly like that. It's only been within the past 50-75 that reinforced concrete became the norm.

They probably used the same engineering as the Romans when they built large unsupported arches: Forms to hold up the arch until the final keystone (#1 below; the stone/brick at the very top) is set into place, then the weight of the arches actually converge on that one point and hold everything up.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Arch_illustration.svg/330px-Arch_illustration.svg.png

I asked this once but don't recall the answer if there was one, is this an old creek that was piped and covered?

There are at least a half dozen for-sale projects coming to the core in the next 6 months or so.

All of the small to medium size.

And all about $250-$275 per square foot.

Pete - which projects are you referring to here if you don't mind listing them? Thanks.

Pete - which projects are you referring to here if you don't mind listing them? Thanks.

Can't say just yet.

Lots of infill projects in the works.

Can't say just yet.

Lots of infill projects in the works.

Gotcha. We'll stay tuned!:D

I asked this once but don't recall the answer if there was one, is this an old creek that was piped and covered?

Probably not, the original streams in the area meandered all over the place, that pipe & reinforcement were pretty strait for a good distance. They already had decent techniques to dig ditches by the time OKC was founded

Probably not, the original streams in the area meandered all over the place, that pipe & reinforcement were pretty strait for a good distance. They already had decent techniques to dig ditches by the time OKC was founded

That is what I am wondering though, did they take a meandering creek, place it in a pipe, and bury it when this area started being settled. Wish there were some old maps of the river and stream network in OKC prior to development.

That is what I am wondering though, did they take a meandering creek, place it in a pipe, and bury it when this area started being settled. Wish there were some old maps of the river and stream network in OKC prior to development.

Doug has an old map with the original river course on his blog (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/okcstreemaps/1911planningmap.jpg

I probably just need to find an old topographical map. Many of the streams around OKC were piped and buried. I would like to see them be daylighted when new construction takes place (too late for this development). If I recall correctly, I think I once counted 17 tributaries to the North Canadian River in OKC where this was done.

How close is this project to (a) going vertical and (b) reopening Sheridan? Will the sidewalks be built with a Project 180 model?

^

Not Project 180 design but similar. Whole street in that area will be completely re-worked.

They are just now starting on the Steelyard. Everything to date has been utilities and street.

This is going to take a while.

The intersection at Sheridan and Joe Carter is wrapping up (from https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH0Bo3rUMAAQDiK.jpg

Photo © 2015 UrbanizedOkie