I know I am often on here yammering on about casement windows and how important it is to preserve/restore them in commercial structures when they are updated for adaptive re-use, but this is a perfect example. These places would have nowhere near the character had those windows not been retained but instead replaced with "modern" aluminum-framed windows with larger glazing. Not to mention that those windows are operable in the middle, which will allow for ventilation and better control over the climate in the room without necessarily running the HVAC system at all times.

Ive never thought that new windows take any historical value from old buildings. In fact I like seeing an old brick structure with new windows, it gives it an updated but still historical look. And its especially a good idea when the old ones are terribly inefficient.

On another note, is The Guardian adjacent to the building that used to house Pat's 10th Street Tavern? Loved rolling up to the bar in there for a cheap pitcher back in the day.

Yeah, Pat's is now The Packard, also renovated inside out by MidtownR.

I don't know that I've ever really considered it before, but I would absolutely LOVE to see what the Midtown Renaissance Group and Brian Fitzsimmons could accomplish if they got their hands on several buildings in Bricktown. That could be something really special.

Agree wholeheartedly. We need their vision and thoughtful care to be put to use throughout our inner city. I don't really know any of the people very well, but I'm extremely impressed by what they are doing. If we could clone them as developers / architect our city would be dynamite.

Edit: the post I was referencing was changed or deleted.

Tragically, many others share your opinion.

Who are you referencing? And why is it tragic?

I haven't heard anything about them leasing either of the retail/restaurant spaces on the ground floor of this building.

Also, no building permits to build out that space.

I haven't heard anything about them leasing either of the retail/restaurant spaces on the ground floor of this building.

Also, no building permits to build out that space.

I've heard they are looking at some sort of a cafe. The cafe would also utilize the alleyway as an outdoor patio.

Who are you referencing? And why is it tragic?
I'm referencing people who take on rehabilitation of a historic structure and who think it is a good idea or even the only option to remove historic windows (in this instance casement windows, which were fortunately NOT removed) and replace them with modern ones. In the case of the Guardian they painstakingly re-glazed the historic casements, and the payoff was obviously immense. The character is far better than it would have been with single-light aluminum windows. If someone disagrees with that I would say with all due respect that they don't fully appreciate old buildings.

By the way, when replacing with fully-sealed, fixed windows the energy efficiency trade-off is that if you cannot use cross-ventilation for climate control during nice weather but are instead forced to use your HVAC system in all conditions. So the energy efficiency of new windows is overstated. Besides, there is modern glazing - even gas-filled double- and triple-glazed panes - that can go into the historic frames and replace the old glass. When the frames have been re-worked and everything is well-sealed, it rivals the modern windows for energy-efficiency. I believe that is what transpired in this case.

I say tragic, because once the historic windows are removed, it would be cost-prohibitive to come back again and replace them with casements. It is a forever decision, and one that is taken lightly by too many people - most who do not have HP experience - when rehabilitating old buildings.

Who are you referencing? And why is it tragic?
Oh, I see now why you asked the question. The post I was referencing was either deleted or changed. I should have quoted it. The poster said that they personally had no problem with ripping out casements and replacing them with modern single-light windows in aluminum frames.

Here's an example of a similar building where the casements were torn out and the dark-tinted modern windows stare out at you blankly:

3050

I haven't heard anything about them leasing either of the retail/restaurant spaces on the ground floor of this building.

Also, no building permits to build out that space.
The ground floor space is massive. It would take a couple of pretty sizeable restaurants or stores to fill them.

If you look at the floorplans in the article above, most of the ground floor is for residential; the only retail/restaurant space is the part that faces Robinson.

Here's an example of a similar building where the casements were torn out and the dark-tinted modern windows stare out at you blankly:

3050

How dare you question Rick Dowell :rolleyes:

If you look at the floorplans in the article above, most of the ground floor is for residential; the only retail/restaurant space is the part that faces Robinson.
Gotcha.

I toured these last Friday with a young lady who works for me. The windows in that first picture are amazing, however there is a serious privacy issue with that unit as it is on the ground floor of the southwest corner. If you remember, that is where the outside mall space is going. My coworker signed a lease and is supposed to move in by January 15th. I believe she is getting the one in the last picture with the loft.

I'm referencing people who take on rehabilitation of a historic structure and who think it is a good idea or even the only option to remove historic windows (in this instance casement windows, which were fortunately NOT removed) and replace them with modern ones. In the case of the Guardian they painstakingly re-glazed the historic casements, and the payoff was obviously immense. The character is far better than it would have been with single-light aluminum windows. If someone disagrees with that I would say with all due respect that they don't fully appreciate old buildings.

By the way, when replacing with fully-sealed, fixed windows the energy efficiency trade-off is that if you cannot use cross-ventilation for climate control during nice weather but are instead forced to use your HVAC system in all conditions. So the energy efficiency of new windows is overstated. Besides, there is modern glazing - even gas-filled double- and triple-glazed panes - that can go into the historic frames and replace the old glass. When the frames have been re-worked and everything is well-sealed, it rivals the modern windows for energy-efficiency. I believe that is what transpired in this case.

I say tragic, because once the historic windows are removed, it would be cost-prohibitive to come back again and replace them with casements. It is a forever decision, and one that is taken lightly by too many people - most who do not have HP experience - when rehabilitating old buildings.
I like historic buildings and fully appreciate them but windows IMO isn't as big as deal. If a developer wants to go through some process that brings them to a decent level in effeciency, great. However, I don't get upset if old windows are replaced. And you can put in new windows that can have an opening for cross ventilating, even though I think you overestimate the amount of people that would actually take advantage of it and open them.

I toured these last Friday with a young lady who works for me. The windows in that first picture are amazing, however there is a serious privacy issue with that unit as it is on the ground floor of the southwest corner. If you remember, that is where the outside mall space is going.

That is the 2nd floor SW Apartment. Not the ground floor. Underneath it is to be the restaurant. So much more private.

Also, the windows are unbelievably double-paned! I couldn't believe it! I think they might by Lexan as well with argon gas. There not going to be ideally efficient as there will be energy transfer through the exposed metal frames, but the individual window panes seem very well done.

I got to walk through it and talk to Chris Fleming about it yesterday afternoon.

Oh, I see now why you asked the question. The post I was referencing was either deleted or changed. I should have quoted it. The poster said that they personally had no problem with ripping out casements and replacing them with modern single-light windows in aluminum frames.

Ah, gotcha. Well, if it's any consolation, I agree with pretty much everything you said and support your case. Now to convince everyone else...

That is the 2nd floor SW Apartment.

I meant SE. Lol

I meant SE. Lol

Drunk?

You can find some good info on why retaining historic windows is important in historic buildings, and why the oft-stated "green" or "energy efficiency" claims associated with replacement windows (or more accurately, with the replacement OF windows) are mostly myth by visiting this link (http://www.preservationnation.org/information-center/sustainable-communities/weatherization/windows/?gclid=CISVmMj5l7QCFS-RPAodwSMAzg) and this link (http://www.preservationnation.org/information-center/sustainable-communities/weatherization/windows/windows-faq.html#replacement-hype).

Ground floor store front windows were going in today.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1398_zps21b183e1.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1395_zps1dc76ed6.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1396_zpsf5a19396.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1397_zpsf7333b73.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1394_zpsb18d4444.jpghttp://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/Midtown/IMG_1393_zpsb17663c3.jpg


I really love that garage door.

From the MidtownR Facebook page:


We still have a few units available at The Guardian Lofts, slated to open January 15, 2013. Prices range from $1000-1500/mo. Call today to schedule your appointment!

Photos from Urban Pioneer:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardian10.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardian11.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardian12.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardian13.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardian14.jpg

That is looking very nice. I love the view of the church across the street.

That's a remarkable setting

Wow, the one with the church view...

RIGHT?! Are these even in OKC? The surroundings seem so incredibly urban and foreign to me from that unit. LOVE IT, WANT IT!

Wow, the one with the church view...

Thought I was in Rome when I saw that.

Got to tour the building today with UP. They are doing a very nice job with this renovation. The corner units feel larger than they are and the lofts are very well done.

From a week ago; tenants should be moving in within a week or two:




http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/47629_10151397098331789_506556888_n.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/184569_10151397099071789_1547597502_n.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1230_10151397099186789_1415153279_n.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/312444_10151397099356789_1059237271_n.jpg


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/400093_10151397099496789_1790441464_n.jpg

This is looking veryyyy cool, I can start to picture this alley all lit up!

pretty freakin sweet, anyone know how much the Guardian Lofts are going for?

There are a couple different sizes of the lofted style, I went and saw a few. They were 1400-1500, depending on size. Don't know about the studios. They were outstanding, just didn't fit my needs.

I saw the Alley the other day and it looks like something from another city like NYC or somewhere outside the US, words or pics don't truly depict this scene.

just FYI tenants started moving in this week .. and i have been told that they are very close to leasing the retail/restaurant space

I'm moving out of the 1212 property into the guardian this week. I'm sad and happy because our corner unit facing walker was legit but my fiance is really excited and Jana offered it this week only. So when we move in I'll post some furnished pictures. We are in one of the 1400 a month units, its around 1100 square feet I believe.

Wow, the one with the church view...

Thanks! It's a ridiculously incredible living space. I'll take new pics when all of the furniture is in. Also probably have people over but would like to get settled first.

Apparently they are "close" to signing a deal for the restaurant downstairs. They are finishing the curbs and sidewalks out front now. Also installing the lights down the alley.

PLEASE take more photos. The interiors are so interesting...




Does anyone else think 3 million was cheap considering all the changes to interior and exterior? This seems like a very efficient investment.

Some new photos from the MidtownR Facebook page:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/487359_10151515651251789_281641348_n.jpg


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/549385_10151515651591789_703197118_n.jpg


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/421958_10151515651681789_1142193777_n.jpg

Nice! Love the space.

Now, I'd probably decorate a bit differently. For example, the two orange chairs -- I'm assuming they're chairs, although they look more like the rubber ends of two giant toilet plungers -- would not be my personal choice.
:wink:

But that's a really great space to work with.

Pete, are you sure those pictures are not from the Guardian building next door?

Holy crap. That is my kind of living space! How's the price?

More photos from the MidtownR website:




http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch8.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch9.jpg

I can't be the only one who loves to see the old historic blended with the new contemporary. If only there were more buildings like these.

Absolutely love this project... Another huge win for MidtownR and Fitzsimmons Architecture.

It looks like most the units have a large bureau and kitchen island / buffet on casters to allow for different configurations. Really, really cool idea.

This looks great.



I can't be the only one who loves to see the old historic blended with the new contemporary.

It's awesome, huh? And who woulda thought it could be done in Oklahoma City? :wink:



If only there were more buildings like these.

Unfortunately, it seems we usually go in the other direction.

To be fair, the Midtown Renaissance people have cranked out over a dozen of these projects with many more on the way.

Losing old buildings is frustrating but it happens everywhere... Fortunately for OKC, there are now plenty of great restoration projects as well.

To be fair, the Midtown Renaissance people have cranked out over a dozen of these projects with many more on the way.

No doubt. They have gone against the common wisdom that usually guides our development and to good results.


Losing old buildings is frustrating but it happens everywhere...

True, but Oklahoma City is very disjointed because of it, more so than most places. We've often lost buildings and gotten nothing in return, leaving scars along the way, yet we still do it. IMO, the interesting part of what the Midtown Renaissance group has been doing is that they are doing it in an area with no lack of undeveloped land. We're often told by real estate leaders and city officials that restoration efforts are not feasible in Oklahoma City. Yet, Midtown is meeting demand with restoration despite there being ample opportunity in the area for brand new development.

That place is sweeeeet! Makes me feel wonderful about going home to my little house that is within walking distance of nothing notable except a skunk infested field and has old carpet and shoddy drywall and a weed garden and creaking floors.

I know it is very fashionable to keep bashing OKC for lack of preservation (and we do deserve criticism), however we need to appreciate what is being done, which is impressive. I had a visitor in town a month ago who is a public official in Riverside County, California. At lunch he told me how impressed he was in what was happening downtown and impressed we had been able to keep so many old buildings.

Sometimes we are so critical we fail to look at things in total and fully appreciate the preservation mode that IS going on. It is good to occassionally look at it through unbiased eyes of people without agendas or dogmatic rigidity. OKC is turning into a COOL city which does respect what short history it has (if you don't count the Native American center fiasco).

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/guardianmarch4.jpg

What a view!

I know it is very fashionable to keep bashing OKC for lack of preservation (and we do deserve criticism), however we need to appreciate what is being done, which is impressive. I had a visitor in town a month ago who is a public official in Riverside County, California. At lunch he told me how impressed he was in what was happening downtown and impressed we had been able to keep so many old buildings.

Sometimes we are so critical we fail to look at things in total and fully appreciate the preservation mode that IS going on. It is good to occassionally look at it through unbiased eyes of people without agendas or dogmatic rigidity. OKC is turning into a COOL city which does respect what short history it has (if you don't count the Native American center fiasco).

Agree 100%.

I could list dozens of fantastic renovation projects just off the top of my head and there are tons more planned.

Bricktown, Midtown and Auto Alley have a high concentration of great renovations... So many in fact, I think a lot of them get overlooked.

We need a bunch more infill but much more is on the way and soon.

Sometimes we are so critical we fail to look at things in total and fully appreciate the preservation mode that IS going on. It is good to occassionally look at it through unbiased eyes of people without agendas or dogmatic rigidity.

No doubt. A large majority of bricktown proper is renovations and reuse developments. That's its whole identity and a big part of the newer developments often just ignore it or, at best, manage to squeeze out a nod to the original aesthetic. The varying successes of Automobile Alley, MidTown, the Paseo, 16th St., and even Western Ave to a degree can be credited more to renovation and preservation efforts than any demo and redevelopment project. And these are the things that give Oklahoma City its identity and create points of interests that the city can be proud of and show off. Yet, such projects are still tagged as infeasible, when there are plenty of examples of the premium cost of these projects being wholly justified. So, really, it seems, more often than not, the perspective of those favoring preservation, often seen as a vain agenda guided by a rigid and idealistic dogma that ignores economic reality, is in reality guided by a much broader, more long term, and comprehensive economic outlook than those who are apathetic (sometimes even enthusiastic) towards demolition of existing structures.

So, basically, those that are most adamant about preservation efforts are the very ones who fully appreciate what those efforts have and can accomplish for the city. It's not hard to travel country and recognize that the economically and socially vibrant areas of American cities are often the areas that have managed to preserve and repurpose their existing structures, while maintaining a relative standard of quality for new developments that may arise. Yet, while it has improved some, there are still many important players who do not recognize the inherent economic and social benefits of preservation and even some who resent it altogether.

I don't see it happening, but wouldn't it be great if the Midtown Renaissance group got involved in Bricktown and was able to renovate some of the buildings there? Those would be some dynamite properties!

I think the MidtownR people want to concentrate on building up the Midtown area, as the more they do, the more it benefits the investment they've already made.

They still have some big projects on the books, like the Osler, the two buildings at 10th & Broadway, The Marion, the adjacent parking garage, the Mayfair Apartments and they still own a bunch of undeveloped land along 10th; just bought more, too.

I hope they partner with St. Anthony to help develop the big chunks of property the hospital already owns.

And with the streetcar on the way, Midtown will only see a bigger boom. If I was them, I'd keep investing right in that area... It's getting very, very close to critical mass and then values are going to start going way up.

They are putting up the suspended lights over the patio now. I'll try to take some pictures and send them over Pete.

And yes, each unit gets at least one rolling wardrobe (if not two) and a large rolling kitchen island. They actually built them on site, along with all the other woodwork, in their wood shop downstairs.

Just heard that The Garage (http://www.eatatthegarage.com/) (Hal Smith burger concept) will be leasing space at the Guardian.

I believe it will take the southern spot along Robinson and will open onto the cool new plaza / patio:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/1532d1337029771-guardian-guardian4.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/1533d1337029771-guardian-guardian5.jpg

It's done pretty well in Norman. If think it would do well here too.