You guys are ridiculous, one mention of Tulsa and every body goes berserk. READ MY POST! Did I say I think the Thunder will relocate to Tulsa??????...NO! I stand by every word in my comment. Now, for everybody who know e v e r y t h I n g about the NBA....have at it.

"I think he will try to relocate the Thunder to Tulsa." I repeat my question. Is this a joke? Precisely how would he try to relocate the Thunder to Tulsa? It has nothing to do with some overreaction to the word "Tulsa". I would have asked the same thing if you stated he would try to relocate the Thunder to Wichita or Kansas City. Many of us have learned A LOT about the NBA over the past 10 years. Looks at what has happened with Chris Hansen in Seattle. Relocating a team to any city is incredibly difficult. When the majority of Thunder owners live in Oklahoma City, it is difficult to think they would be excited about a move. The NBA would be decidedly unexcited about the move. There are five major investors, one of whom is now Kaiser and three minor investors. I may even be wrong about this because Peter Scaramucci may have increased his ownership share - the group is not very forthcoming about information like that. It's hard to act unilaterally to move the team. Kaiser likely holds a 15% share and so I suspect any vote to do so in the ownership group would go against him. Clay Bennett is on the NBA relocation committee, so I suspect he would be able to influence the committee to vote against a move as well, even in some pipe dream scenario where Kaiser convinced a majority of the other owners to vote with him to move the team. It is basically a ridiculous idea.

Kaiser is bldg a new Tulsa skyscraper? He already has a 2/3 WTC replica there.

What does an old, old wooden ship from the Civil War have to do with the mystery tower?

"I gave that a 'like'"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/bdcwire-static-content/uploads/2013/12/ron-burgundy-2.jpg

I've now heard that Hines (the construction manager that handled the entire Devon project) will be managing the construction of the proposed BOK Main/Hudson tower.

I'm also hearing it will be about 800,000 square feet. For perspective, Oklahoma Tower is about 570,000 and Chase a little less than that.

Also, even if all the buildings on Main between Hudson and the City-owned Main Place were demolished (which seems to be the most likely scenairo), the building footprint and floor size would be somewhat limited.

So, I believe we are looking at a 30 to 40 story building although, obviously, all of this is still pretty fluid.

You heard it here 1st. Great work once again Pete!

I'd guess closer to 40 than 30, with that much square footage.

It'd be pretty cool to have this site and the SC site going up simultaneously.

I've now heard that Hines (the construction manager that handled the entire Devon project) will be managing the construction of the proposed BOK Main/Hudson tower.

I'm also hearing it will be about 800,000 square feet. For perspective, Oklahoma Tower is about 570,000 and Chase a little less than that.

Also, even if all the buildings on Main between Hudson and the City-owned Main Place were demolished (which seems to be the most likely scenairo), the building footprint and floor size would be somewhat limited.

So, I believe we are looking at a 30 to 40 story building although, obviously, all of this is still pretty fluid.

They must be pretty far into this if Pickard Chilton and Hines are already lined up.....

And I'm still hearing that Pickard Chilton will be the architect.

So, this is basically the main players for the Devon Energy Center project teaming up once again.


I fully realize that this could end in disappointment but for now I'm going to fantasize about another world-class P/C tower on that site, which could bring almost the perfect balance to the skyline in terms of height, placement and design.

I guess it is just a coincidence that the Stage Center is days away from being demolished as you are sharing this information. It seems like the Stage Center should be the ones that are further along in the process not the Main St/Hudson developers.

I've now heard that Hines (the construction manager that handled the entire Devon project) will be managing the construction of the proposed BOK Main/Hudson tower.

I'm also hearing it will be about 800,000 square feet. For perspective, Oklahoma Tower is about 570,000 and Chase a little less than that.

Also, even if all the buildings on Main between Hudson and the City-owned Main Place were demolished (which seems to be the most likely scenairo), the building footprint and floor size would be somewhat limited.

So, I believe we are looking at a 30 to 40 story building although, obviously, all of this is still pretty fluid.

Pete, are you hearing where a parking garage would be built? I know Preftakes said he never intended to tear down the Union Bus Station, but that area seems like the likely place for it.

Note: After I typed that, I realized this would be built across the street from the new parking garage. Still curious.

I don't believe the Bus Station will be demolished in any scenario, nor will the old Hotel Black (1 North Hudson) or Main Place.

The fate of the old Auto Hotel is less clear but I would expect it to stay.

So, the Auto Hotel could serve as parking but even with that and the new Main Street Garage to the north, they will still need more for a building that size.

I believe the land east of the Bus Station and the old Lunch Box building will see some sort of parking structure with perhaps more offices or residential as well.

Pete! Well done again sir! Would it be possible for you or one of our great contributors to make a shaded diagram of the block with potential footprints of the hopefully new tower?!

I guess it is just a coincidence that the Stage Center is days away from being demolished as you are sharing this information. It seems like the Stage Center should be the ones that are further along in the process not the Main St/Hudson developers.

I think Stage Center Tower is pretty far along.

You would think that before they start to lay waste to the Stage Center they would reveal more info about their plans, like the architect and perhaps even new renderings. So, that may be coming sooner rather than later.

And remember, for anything to happen at Main/Hudson they would have to file for multiple demolition permits and there is going to be another big outcry over that, so that process could take a while and we are not even to that point yet.

An interesting scenario is the economic impact created by two large overlapping construction projects. This could be greater than when the Devon tower was built. If they happen concurrently at least.

^

Plus the convention center, which will be going at the same time and in the same general area.

Maybe the CC hotel, too.

And while the entire Stage Center project will come in around $100 million, 21c just down the road will be $50 million just for the hotel, with other projects likely to happen around it.

Lets do the math. Oklahoma Tower is 570,000 sq ft. At 32 floors, that means the square footage per floor is apx 18,000.

At 800,000 sq ft, that means if the floor plate is close to the Oklahoma Tower, then were looking at 44 floors..

44 floors by 17 feet average floor height (Devon averages 17 feet) - has it at 748 feet tall.

And remember, for anything to happen at Main/Hudson they would have to file for multiple demolition permits and there is going to be another big outcry over that, so that process could take a while and we are not even to that point yet.

Do you think there will be that big of a fight over those buildings? Especially if a 40-story tower is going in their place?

Do you think there will be that big of a fight over those buildings? Especially if a 40-story tower is going in their place?

Maybe this is the real reason they are closing One North Hudson in August. I believe the construction offices were in that building when Devon was built. But due to the proximity, they just might not want anyone in it ?

I'll say it again: It wouldn't be that difficult to retain and restore the historic facades while constructing a tower behind. Here in Seattle, I know of several recent buildings constructed behind old facades.

I'll say it again: It wouldn't be that difficult to retain and restore the historic facades while constructing a tower behind. Here in Seattle, I know of several recent buildings constructed behind old facades.

Do you think that is a battle worth fighting?

I'll say it again: It wouldn't be that difficult to retain and restore the historic facades while constructing a tower behind. Here in Seattle, I know of several recent buildings constructed behind old facades.

This is what I'd like to see done as well, but doubt we see that in this instance.

I'll say it again: It wouldn't be that difficult to retain and restore the historic facades while constructing a tower behind. Here in Seattle, I know of several recent buildings constructed behind old facades.
Has Pickard Chilton ever been involved in this type of development, saving historic facades?

Do you think that is a battle worth fighting?
In OKC, no.

An interesting scenario is the economic impact created by two large overlapping construction projects. This could be greater than when the Devon tower was built. If they happen concurrently at least.
Maybe that is why OG&E has yet to release any new renderings because they'll want to release real renderings vs. conceptual at nearly the same time as Main/Hudson as to attempt to defuse public perception of an energy company spending more than $100,000,000 for new digs.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5

I've now heard that Hines (the construction manager that handled the entire Devon project) will be managing the construction of the proposed BOK Main/Hudson tower.

I'm also hearing it will be about 800,000 square feet. For perspective, Oklahoma Tower is about 570,000 and Chase a little less than that.

Also, even if all the buildings on Main between Hudson and the City-owned Main Place were demolished (which seems to be the most likely scenairo), the building footprint and floor size would be somewhat limited.

So, I believe we are looking at a 30 to 40 story building although, obviously, all of this is still pretty fluid.

Devon Energy Center is 1.5 m sf right?

I'll say it again: It wouldn't be that difficult to retain and restore the historic facades while constructing a tower behind. Here in Seattle, I know of several recent buildings constructed behind old facades.

By "not that difficult" to do you mean very easy. It would elevate any project to truly world class status, to incorporate the beautiful storefront remnants of OKC's Main Street.

This IS a battle worth fighting, if only anyone cared to. Preservation Oklahoma ought to be meeting w Devon NOW to proactively guide the plans.

Devon Energy Center is 1.5 m sf right?

Just the tower (not the rotunda, garden wing, etc.) is 1.42 million SF over 49 floors, so 29,000 SF per floor. All in, it's a total of 1.9 million. The parking structure is almost another million square feet.

That's a large average floorplate which likely could not be accommodated at Main & Hudson.

20,000 SF per floor is more likely for this spot (in my estimation), which would yield 40 floors.

Pete, do you have any idea who's looking at the Bank of America lot then if this is BOK/Devon and OG&E is Stage Center?

My guess would be Continental Resources.

My guess would be Continental Resources.

Or possibly Enable.

So is there a third mystery tower beyond Stage Center Tower and Main/Hudson?

So is there a third mystery tower beyond Stage Center Tower and Main/Hudson?

No, probably not. There was just some drilling that took place on this lot that led to a little speculation and I was just curious about what Pete might have heard about it. Relax, young'n.

Potentially.

Having 3 towers built at the same time along Hudson would make a big impression upon people. Add the convention center and a possible hotel and that's a lot of construction downtown.

My guess would be Continental Resources.


Or possibly Enable.

Selfishly, I'd like to see Enable build something on the BofA lot and then Continental build on either the NW or SW corner lots of 4th and Broadway. Then, with those parcels knocked out, I'd love to see something like Dallas' Museum Tower built on the SE corner of 4th and Broadway. Now that would be awesome.

Pete, do you have any idea who's looking at the Bank of America lot then if this is BOK/Devon and OG&E is Stage Center?

I haven't heard anything about that site in a while.

There were soil samples taken a few months ago (as was posted by someone else here) but then things seemed to go quiet. Or I should say, I personally haven't heard anything new.

Selfishly, I'd like to see Enable build something on the BofA lot and then Continental build on either the NW or SW corner lots of 4th and Broadway. Then, with those parcels knocked out, I'd love to see something like Dallas' Museum Tower built on the SE corner of 4th and Broadway. Now that would be awesome.

My fantasy is that CLR would build just South of the SC site. This gives them courtside to the MBG.

I believe the Hamm divorce is due to wrap up this summer and it seems most the big legal questions have been answered (like Harold keeping almost all his Continental stock).

So, with that dust about to settle, perhaps CLR will get serious about a new HQ.

They are really pushing Crowe Dunlevy out the door... They already have filled the building permits to rework the four floors they current occupy for their own use. If it takes at least 2 and closer to 3 years to bring a new building on line, they are going to be overflowing into buildings all over downtown by then.

Ironically, this was exactly the situation with Devon before they built their complex. CLR is likely to land in some of the Class B space Devon vacated.

Assuming Stage Center Tower and the Main/Hudson site, there are three other prime tower spots that leap to mind:

1. As Bellaboo mentioned, the area directly south of Stage Center
2. NW corner of Hudson and RS Kerr (old B of A drive-thru and surrounding parcels)
3. 4th & Broadway triangle, currently owned by SandRidge and certainly attainable

My fantasy is that CLR would build just South of the SC site. This gives them courtside to the MBG.

That would also be very nice.

Having towers all around the Myriad gardens would be awesome, and what I think will happen someday. I still wish the convention center was not going to be at the south end but maybe it could be a plus if the design is good ie lots of glass fronting the park.

^

And we get a nice, tall convention center hotel.

Then, we can get busy redeveloping the Cox Center block and really surround the park with quality development.

In OKC, no.I disagree.

Having towers all around the Myriad gardens would be awesome, and what I think will happen someday. I still wish the convention center was not going to be at the south end but maybe it could be a plus if the design is good ie lots of glass fronting the park.

IIRC, one of the reasons (excuses?) given for the Stage Center Tower being shorter than we anticipated was that they didn't want a large tower preventing the sunlight from reaching the plant life in the Myriad Gardens.

Does the sun shine from the East in OKC? If not, then I don't think the height of the tower makes a difference.

IIRC, one of the reasons (excuses?) given for the Stage Center Tower being shorter than we anticipated was that they didn't want a large tower preventing the sunlight from reaching the plant life in the Myriad Gardens.

If someone said that then they were full of crap.

If someone said that then they were full of crap.
Yeah, I didn't buy it, either. I knew that excuse wouldn't hold up in the light of day (see what I did there?)

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

If someone said that then they were full of crap.

Very true. That has been discussed and debunked here several times in the past.

In OKC, no.

Yeah, futile exercises get old.

I love the thought of 2-4 more towers in the near future. Can someone with the knowledge and skills to give us a glimpse of what all this may look like, please do so. It would be great to see what the downtown area would look like with the OGE Tower, the 32-40 story mystery tower on Hudson street, the Bricktown Tower/Towers, Convention Hotel, and perhaps the other mystery tower on 4th and RS Kerr Street. Please let us all see what our skyline would look like from various views! I can hardly wait for all this to happen. Could you also do any new hotels/construction in Bricktown as well that I didn't mention?

I love the thought of 2-4 more towers in the near future. Can someone with the knowledge and skills to give us a glimpse of what all this may look like, please do so. It would be great to see what the downtown area would look like with the OGE Tower, the 32-40 story mystery tower on Hudson street, the Bricktown Tower/Towers, Convention Hotel, and perhaps the other mystery tower on 4th and RS Kerr Street. Please let us all see what our skyline would look like from various views! I can hardly wait for all this to happen. Could you also do any new hotels/construction in Bricktown as well that I didn't mention?

That was done a while ago by one of our posters let me see if I can dig them up, as I was just thinking about this as well.

I love the thought of 2-4 more towers in the near future. Can someone with the knowledge and skills to give us a glimpse of what all this may look like, please do so. It would be great to see what the downtown area would look like with the OGE Tower, the 32-40 story mystery tower on Hudson street, the Bricktown Tower/Towers, Convention Hotel, and perhaps the other mystery tower on 4th and RS Kerr Street. Please let us all see what our skyline would look like from various views! I can hardly wait for all this to happen. Could you also do any new hotels/construction in Bricktown as well that I didn't mention?

Don't forget about a tower on the site of the current convention center. Would love that NW/C to be a tower, wrapped with or on top of a parking garage and the street grid restored.

So thus far, this is where we stand in terms of mystery towers. Correct me if I am wrong.

Certain: Stage Center Tower
Likely: Hudson/Main
Possible: Convention Hotel, BoA Site
Not Likely: Bricktown Towers
Pure Speculation: Cox center site tower

So thus far, this is where we stand in terms of mystery towers. Correct me if I am wrong.

Certain: Stage Center Tower
Likely: Hudson/Main
Possible: Convention Hotel, BoA Site
Not Likely: Bricktown Towers
Pure Speculation: Cox center site tower


I'd put it this way:

Certain: Stage Center (16-18 stories)
Likely: Main & Hudson (30 to 45 stories)
Likely: Convention Hotel (20 to 30 stories)
Possible: Hudson & Dean A McGee
Possible: 4th & EK Gaylord
Long shot: Bricktown Towers

What about the BOA site?

Also is a mid-high rise still possible for hotel on the Steelyard?

What about the BOA site?

Also is a mid-high rise still possible for hotel on the Steelyard?

The BofA site is Hudson & McGee.

Best we could hope for at the Steelyard would be about 10-12 stories.

The BofA site is Hudson & McGee.

Best we could hope for at the Steelyard would be about 10-12 stories.Gotcha...

These were the drawings done by KayneMo last year. I've sent him a message to see if he could update them.

What you see here is pretty much what we are talking about, without Bricktown Towers or the BofA site. Also, the Sears Tower looking thing is actually Stage Center Tower before we all got our hopes crushed.

So, shows CC Hotel, 4th & EKG and Main & Hudson sites plus the out-of-proportion Stage Center:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/skylinedraw1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/skylinedraw2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/skylinedraw3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/skylinedraw4.jpg

As per Pete's request, here are updated images!
http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-real-estate-topics/8237d1403222988-mystery-tower-speculation-news-ideas-post-here-okc-view-1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-real-estate-topics/8238d1403222990-mystery-tower-speculation-news-ideas-post-here-okc-view-2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-real-estate-topics/8239d1403222991-mystery-tower-speculation-news-ideas-post-here-okc-view-3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/general-real-estate-topics/8240d1403222992-mystery-tower-speculation-news-ideas-post-here-okc-view-4.jpg

^

You're the man!

Thanks as always.

I really want the pointed tower to give the skyline some character.