And in any event, personal attacks are unwarranted and childish. We're all excited and just trying to bring and piece together whatever information we have.

Patrick, thanks for your insight.

Anyways, to get us back to topic (and to leave this thread on good terms), here are some of the proposals I know are in the works for a tower downtown:

1. OGE Corp (Enogex, OGE, CenterPoint, etc.) - complete within the next 2

2. Midfirst (still a possibility)

3. Residential tower - a good possibility in the next 5 years

4. Continental - a good possibility in the next 5 years.

5. Devon - completion in 10 years

6. Sandridge - not happening

I'm not sure it takes any inside knowledge to compile that list. I live a 1000 miles away and don't personally know a single person involved in any capacity of City government, or the OKC Chamber, or even a scout leader of a local boy scout troop - and even I could come up with that list. :)

Clearly there are pieces in motion. Patrick has a very good source with OG&E and his basing his predictions off of what he has been told by that source. This does not mean that Pete Delaney has solid information on what companies other than OG&E are doing. We don't have enough information to accurately gauge Mr. Delaney's sources re: outside companies.

We could have an announcement next week about a Midfirst Bank tower on the Stage Center site. Or an Enogex/OG&E MLP on the Stage Center site. Apparently there have been 3 companies bidding on that piece of land, and my guess is that all 3 want to build something tall there. Exactly what will take place is unknown. Even if Patrick had rock-solid information at the end of May, we don't know that that information is still accurate.

i'm just really curious who the other 2 bidders have been for that site. because i would like for all 3 to build somewhere downtown...

Patrick, I understand you are a Psychiatrist. That should come in handy on this board. Lot's of potential clients here.

I was told by a good source -- the one that said the Stage Center site will be sold to a local company -- that it is NOT MidFirst. Also, another source who knew all about MF taking a run at the OPUBCO properties long before it was public does not believe they are the company, either.

When I asked my source specifically if the SC site was being sold to OG&E, he said "I can't say".

It's somewhat telling that in the past he has completely shot down ideas like MidFirst, so not coming outright and saying "No, it's got OG&E" furthers my belief it IS them.

If the information is right that this announcement is about a local company consolidating to the SC site, then it almost has to be OG&E.

Doesn't mean there aren't other companies that are also looking or that Engox/CenterPoint won't be part of the mix. However, I do strongly believe that the E/C merger will be housed in a separate building from whatever OG&E decides to do.

I also believe Devon will eventually move their own MLP spin-off out of their tower, as there are lots of reasons to create some degree of separation between these entities.


I still think it will be OG&E announcing late next week they are acquiring the Stage Center site and building a tower of approximately 40 stories. I think it's too soon to make an announcement about Enogex/CenterPoint but I DO believe they will be located in OKC. I also believe Devon will eventually build on the Preftakes block but in the more immediate term One N Hudson will be converted to housing (or a hotel) and perhaps some other smaller projects.


BTW, I kind of hope I'm wrong about OG&E and that we get a surprise company stepping up. But I don't think that's going to happen.

i'm just really curious who the other 2 bidders have been for that site. because i would like for all 3 to build somewhere downtown...

I believe Continental was initially interested.

And I don't believe there was any sort of bid... More of an expression of possible interest.

I'm also not sure there were any others that got very far in the process. You can imagine they received inquiries from all types.

I was told by a good source -- the one that said the Stage Center site will be sold to a local company -- that it is NOT MidFirst. Also, another source who knew all about MF taking a run at the OPUBCO properties long before it was public does not believe they are the company, either.

My source for all things MF also is very adamant that they do not think the Stage Center will be them. I spoke with them for a bit yesterday, and they are still saying that they are not aware of any immediate plans to consolidate offices after the bid on OPUBCO and the Chesapeake money river drying up.

Just throwing out wild ideas since that is allowed here. How possible is it that OG&E and Centerpoint/Enogex to build twin towers on the Stage Center site? People have said in the past that there is plenty of room for two towers on SC. Now THAT would be iconic! Again, I know nothing and am not suggesting that this is even a possibility. Just think it would be really cool!

Yeah, I think Pete is correct. From what I've heard, the new tower would house CenterPoint and Enogex (with Enogex giving up space that they lease at Leadership Square), and OG&E would remain in their current building. The SC site would include one 35-40 floor tower and a parking garage, similar to what you have a tthe Devon complex, possibly with a conference center.

You don't think they're beyond the bidding stage in the planning process?

From my experience that stage can go right up until groundbreaking on the facility. In this case, the enormity of the physical plant may weather down some of the late risk, but until a deal is announced I don't know if Oklahoma has made an ED deal or not.

This was posted today on Steve's chat:



Can anyone confirm this closure?

This whole block is prime for redevelopment:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/bofadrivein.jpg

I have a weird vibe that this is where OG+E wants to be. It's near where they are now.

^

Yes, that would make sense but I have the feeling the Stage Center site became too good to pass up.

Yeah, I think Pete is correct. From what I've heard, the new tower would house CenterPoint and Enogex (with Enogex giving up space that they lease at Leadership Square), and OG&E would remain in their current building. The SC site would include one 35-40 floor tower and a parking garage, similar to what you have a tthe Devon complex, possibly with a conference center.

No, OG+E is not staying in their old tower. I have always refrained from justifying myself on here to any degree, and while I'm away doing planning work in Ohio these days, I'll mention for your benefit that I was one of the earliest informants to both Pete and Steve about OG+E. This corporation does not have a future in its existing office facility.

Yeah, I think Pete is correct. From what I've heard, the new tower would house CenterPoint and Enogex (with Enogex giving up space that they lease at Leadership Square), and OG&E would remain in their current building. The SC site would include one 35-40 floor tower and a parking garage, similar to what you have a tthe Devon complex, possibly with a conference center.

That's not what Pete said. Pete thinks the new tower will be solely for OG&E, and there will be a separate tower for the MLP.

That's not what Pete said. Pete thinks the new tower will be solely for OG&E, and there will be a separate tower for the MLP.

Sorry, I read it wrong. I guess we differ on that. From everything I've heard the new tower proposed by OGE Corp would house the Enogex/CenterPoint partnership (with the CenterPoint HQ remaining in Houston). But, I'm less certain on that. Regardless, I think our consensus is that some subsidiary of the OGE Energy Corp (whether that be the Enogex/CenterPoint partnership or OG&E) will be involved with this project.

^

Yes, that would make sense but I have the feeling the Stage Center site became too good to pass up.

I agree. I know OGE Energy Corp looked at the north OKC MOA site, but I'm guessing that the SC site, for it's location, was too good of an opportunity.

Sorry, I read it wrong. I guess we differ on that. From everything I've heard the new tower proposed by OGE Corp would house the Enogex/CenterPoint partnership (with the CenterPoint HQ remaining in Houston). But, I'm less certain on that. Regardless, I think our consensus is that some subsidiary of the OGE Energy Corp (whether that be the Enogex/CenterPoint partnership or OG&E) will be involved with this project.

Can someone explain the difference between a merger and a master limited partnership and how that would influence whether they retain existing HQ facilities or form new facilities.

My first inclination is to deadpan that these corps are merging and won't be both in OKC and Houston...

OG&E only owns 28% of the new Enogex/CenterPoint entity and that will be further diluted with the initial public offering.

I believe the main issue is keeping an arms-length relationship with this new company since there will be so many other investors.

This will not be an OG&E company in any way. OG&E is merely an investor, and not even the largest one.



Also, I believe there are regulatory issues regarding the degree of involvement by the company that spun off the assets. This pertains more to Devon and Chesapeake but I still found it interesting:


Many energy companies have been drawn to MLPs as a way to create tax efficiencies. By placing pipelines, gathering and storage assets into an MLP, the sponsoring firms help avoid taxes and receive back generous distribution payments. Individual investors benefit from the security type’s high tax-advantaged yields. This powerful combo has been a win-win for both issuing firms as well as retail investors. And given the benefits, new MLP spinoffs and issuances have surged.

Just throwing out wild ideas since that is allowed here. How possible is it that OG&E and Centerpoint/Enogex to build twin towers on the Stage Center site? People have said in the past that there is plenty of room for two towers on SC. Now THAT would be iconic! Again, I know nothing and am not suggesting that this is even a possibility. Just think it would be really cool!

Hey, that kinda looks like Devon on the right!

4157

No, OG+E is not staying in their old tower. I have always refrained from justifying myself on here to any degree, and while I'm away doing planning work in Ohio these days, I'll mention for your benefit that I was one of the earliest informants to both Pete and Steve about OG+E. This corporation does not have a future in its existing office facility.

The utility OG&E is growing but not like an energy corp. They don't need more space. Meanwhile, other OGE corp subsidiaries, like Enogex and the Enogex-CenterPoint MLP are growing operations. All 3 divisions of OGE Corp could move into a new tower, but its looking like they're going to keep the utility in their existing building and move the energy company and MLP into the new tower. Would make more sense though for all 3 to move to a new tower and I hope this occurs.

Can someone explain the difference between a merger and a master limited partnership and how that would influence whether they retain existing HQ facilities or form new facilities.

My first inclination is to deadpan that these corps are merging and won't be both in OKC and Houston...

CenterPoint and OGE corp (subsidiaries being OG&E utility and Enogex) will remain independent companies but they'll put resources like pipelines into a partnership for tax benefits. The partnership is a separate entity run by both corporations that has its own set of shareholders, but functions like a "partnership" for tax benefits.

CenterPoint will remain in Houston and retain its 47 story HQ there. OGE energy Corp will remain in OKC. It looks like the MLP may take up space in a new tower on the SC site, either joining with Enogex or OG&E utility or both.

Pete Delaney. Sorry, I edited it because I didn't want toi divulge too much private information about him or me.

That's ironic because just two posts earlier you detailed PD's Tower strategy. I wonder what PD would think if he knew you were telling everyone on a message board that is read by a lot of well connected people many of his company's moves. Especially since he's been able to keep them secret for so long.

That is why I'm a little leery of your sources as others are. That and that I know you are way off on what you originally said about MidFirst

That's ironic because just two posts earlier you detailed PD's Tower strategy. I wonder what PD would think if he knew you telling everyone on a message board that is read by a lot of well connected people many of his company's moves. Especially since he's been able to keep them secret for so long.

That is why I'm a little leery of your sources as others are. That and that I know you are way off on what you originally said about MidFirst

Look, if you don't want to believe what I say, then that's fine....go about your business. But in the meantime you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a "let's attack Patrick's credibility and sources" thread. This is exactly why local professionals like myself often times avoid message and forum boards. Forget I even shared any information here. I hang out with these guys and play golf with them on a regular basis. But I'll just keep the information to myself.

To what does the acronym "MLP" refer?

To what does the acronym "MLP" refer?

Master Limited Partnership

The utility OG&E is growing but not like an energy corp. They don't need more space. Meanwhile, other OGE corp subsidiaries, like Enogex and the Enogex-CenterPoint MLP are growing operations. All 3 divisions of OGE Corp could move into a new tower, but its looking like they're going to keep the utility in their existing building and move the energy company and MLP into the new tower. Would make more sense though for all 3 to move to a new tower and I hope this occurs.

The main point that's missing here is that OG+E's current facilities are vast, substandard, and scattered.

Master Limited Partnership

Master Limited Partnership


Master Limited Partnership

Thank you.

One or more people are going to look ridiculous in about 5 days.... or not.

One or more people are going to look ridiculous in about 5 days.... or not.

This is the most bankable thing that has been said in a long time in this thread lol

One or more people are going to look ridiculous in about 5 days.... or not.

Friendships with "sources" will end. lol

Pretty sure endogex will cease to exist once the mlp forms

Pretty sure endogex will cease to exist once the mlp forms

That's what I'm thinking

I have a friend who works at Enogex and i have been asking about news/rumor on the new tower and he said no. This past wed he texted me that he's hearing rumor in the office about a tower.

Look, if you don't want to believe what I say, then that's fine....go about your business. But in the meantime you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a "let's attack Patrick's credibility and sources" thread. This is exactly why local professionals like myself often times avoid message and forum boards. Forget I even shared any information here. I hang out with these guys and play golf with them on a regular basis. But I'll just keep the information to myself.

Just ignore him if he bothers you. Got to have a little skin to be on here because there are some who will turn rude and even call names the moment you post an opinion. You just have to accept that some people are like that. The rest of us enjoy the chat for what it is.

Yeah, Patrick don't think we (including myself) don't appreciate your educated conjecture. We definitely welcome as much informed perspective on here as possible, and your perspective is definitely informed. Some people just don't think you have Pete Delaney on speed dial.

Myself, I certainly don't have any inside executive-level sources for these things anymore. Sometimes I wish I still knew the inside scoop on everything, but I've come to realize that just increases the fun that I get from watching OKC grow by leaps and bounds. Especially when you consider that the OKC I grew up with was one where we accepted the frozen-in-time skyline as an absolute we would always be living with, while all the cities around us including Tulsa and Little Rock were building new scrapers.

Look, if you don't want to believe what I say, then that's fine....go about your business. But in the meantime you've hijacked this thread and turned it into a "let's attack Patrick's credibility and sources" thread. This is exactly why local professionals like myself often times avoid message and forum boards. Forget I even shared any information here. I hang out with these guys and play golf with them on a regular basis. But I'll just keep the information to myself.

This is a message board and you have every right to share your "information", just as I have the right to dispute the credibility of it. I have no idea if your OG&E sources are good, but I do know that your information about MidFirst building a tower downtown is incorrect, and you, yourself backpedalled from it when you were called on it on page 201 of this thread.


I thought this was shot down, also, CHK is downsizing and not interested in MidFirst HQ location anymore, as someone else has confirmed.


probably right about the buyer for their property.

Pete also disputed your information:

We have a really good source inside of MidFirst who alerted me about them taking a run at the OPUBCO properties, which is how I knew about American Fidelity actually outbidding them, long before it broke in the press.

And that source told me that MidFirst is not moving now because 1) Chesapeake is no longer in a position to buy their existing properties and 2) Chesapeake may actually sell them the Grand Park buildings.

If you don't like being called on the carpet, then this is not the place for you. I feel like it is my duty when I see something I know to be wrong to point it out to the board. And, although I don't speak for the rest of the board, since I know your information about MF was wrong, I'm going to take the rest of your information with a grain of salt.

Think about what all has changed even in five years. Will 2013 be 2008 again?

Doug Dawgz Blog: Devon Tower (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2008/08/devon-tower.html)

Guess this is the week ? I'll take Thursday as 'the' Day....

Guess this is the week ? I'll take Thursday as 'the' Day....

How 'bout Wednesday? :)

Really, if it's any time this week, I'll be thrilled. The sooner the better.

I'm hearing the announcement will be made Friday.

Press release will go out that day, interviews with the media are being scheduled.

Awesome! Okay, now we have to predict what it will look like.

Bold prediction: I expect half this board to complain about the design.

i'm hearing the announcement will be made friday.

Press release will go out that day, interviews with the media are being scheduled.

wow!!!

YEEHAW!!!!!

http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/1176/07/1176_1310389089.jpg

I'm hearing the announcement will be made Friday.

Press release will go out that day, interviews with the media are being scheduled.

Do you know if renderings will be shown Friday if Friday is indeed the day?

I'm hearing the announcement will be made Friday.

Press release will go out that day, interviews with the media are being scheduled.

Very exciting!

Do you know if renderings will be shown Friday if Friday is indeed the day?

Not to answer for Pete, but as others have said in this thread, it would not be a good idea for a company to announce that they're buying a piece of iconic architecture and razing it without providing a rendering of what will be replacing the iconic architecture. I doubt we'd know until Wednesday at the earliest if there will be full plans, but this seems obvious.

Everyone knows a tower is going up, we just don't "know" who the company is.

Do you know if renderings will be shown Friday if Friday is indeed the day?

Surely they would. That would be mighty strange to announce a new tower and then not show a single rendering.

Awesome! Okay, now we have to predict what it will look like.

Obviously there will be glass, but I don't think there will be as much as the Devon tower. I predict a much taller, less glass version of Building 1 (The modern one under construction) on the CHK campus.

Not sure about renderings but would be surprised if that wasn't part of what was in the press release -- at least a conceptual drawing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/3700336897_a58e142f9d.jpg?v=0

How about something like this?

Surely they would. That would be mighty strange to announce a new tower and then not show a single rendering.

Devon kinda did it when they announced they would build a new tower, but at that point didn't specify a location or have any real estate locked up.

How do we get a copy of that PR? ;)

Steve....

Now we need to start the height, floors, square feet guessing game. I will start: 37 floors (split the difference between 35 and 40 prediction), 550 feet tall, 550,000 square feet.

I'm sure as soon as the press release hits the wire we'll get wind of it.

I've heard all the way along the tower will be about 40 stories and have retail/restaurants on the first one or two floors. I don't think anything has changed.

Should be an interesting live chat this Friday... If the press release it before 10am.

I have a friend who is in the office furniture business and has said that his company has not seen the plans but was given the opportunity to bid early for the project based on requirments submitted by mystery companies design and development staff. His company is large in Oklahoma and did/does work for the Devon tower. He could not tell me who because of confidentiality reasons. He said is estimates put the tower at 40 to 40+ floors based on what they require in reference to what his company installed in the Devon tower.

Devon kinda did it when they announced they would build a new tower, but at that point didn't specify a location or have any real estate locked up.

I think this is a different scenario, though. Since the site is already known and involves a potentially controversial demolition, they can't be as vague. I would think that some basic info about height, number of floors, parking, etc. would have to be included along with at least some basic sketches of the proposed tower.

I hope there will be at least conceptual drawings but wouldn't be shocked if that didn't happen.

This has all come together pretty quickly and they might not be that far along in the process. The Devon parallel is a good one... Made a big announcement long before the big, public reveal of the tower model. Before that, we didn't see a thing.

This is a little different situation because of the angst over Stage Center, though. If I was them, I'd at least have a pretty picture to point to when trying to get past the demolition issue.