My guess is OG&E will build on Stage center, while Devon does on the Preftakes block and labels it a "multitenant" building so they can house their growing workforce and others who need class A space downtown.

That leaves the MLP and continental left to build in the meat future. Also, Steve tweeted me yesterday that, with the downtown housing boom, and occupancy rates very low, there are several contractors looking to build mid and high rise residential downtown, as well.

There could be a construction boom in the works for downtown in the next 5-10 years!

I really think we could see someone redoing FNC as well. I know it would work best as a hotel, but I could see Continental coming in, gutting it and redoing it for their own office space. If they did just FNC, they could get a brand new building for under $100 or so.

As everything fills in and up around it, a complete redo for FNC becomes more realistic.

It's still a gorgeous, unique property with an incredible location and unlimited potential. And at least the lights are still on, which will make it much easier to renovate than something like the Skirvin or even Dowell Center. Once a building completely closes, it seems infinitely harder to get it back on track.

With the complete redevelopment of eastern downtown (all the SandRidge work, Carnegie Centre, etc.), it looking like western downtown is getting ready to explode, and even the lowly Century Center set for a complete makeover, that really leaves First National as the last big piece of the puzzle. At some point that property just becomes too valuable for something *not* to happen there.

I think over the next few years (and probably even well after that), the number of residential building constructed will vastly out number the office buildings constructed. Downtown OKC is going to change and residential development will be the primary driver. It might not change the skyline as much but it will definitely thicken the urban fabric.

I think you're right about this. I'm visiting Austin in September and my family member who lives there says the number of high-rise residential projects there is just staggering. We are not the same city but we're witnessing an explosion in residential development that is historic by our own city's standards. That said, mid-rise and high-rise development for housing hasn't yet occurred, but with the trajectory of everything we're seeing, should start happening soon.

As someone who has been a fan of an improved downtown and inner-city for 20-plus years, it is refreshing to see our city leaders look to other models besides Dallas. For the longest time, it seemed everything discussed was some "little brother of Big D" idea. Now it's nice to see us looking at places like Austin, Portland, Charlotte and other cities for inspiration and ideas.

I think everyone here appreciates Steve. It just becomes frustrating when he teases "big announcement" and then his chat talks about trying Waffle House for the first time. That doesn't have anything to do with not revealing sources, or maintaining his professional ethics, that's just a tease at a time when this board is already really antsy. I speak to journalists about some of my cases, and I can definitely appreciate the value of "on the record" vs "off the record". And I can say that the next time I get screwed over by a reporter for the Oklahoman will be the first time. My experiences with them have always been pleasant.

But he's totally been in tease mode lately.

As far as the towers go, something is going on at the Preftakes block, unless you think Nick Preftakes is in the business of buying up expensive properties, kicking out paying tenants, and holding empty buildings. I dunno, maybe he's going to sit on the top floor of the Hotel Black and pee in mason jars or something. Something is also going on right across the street at Stage Center. And the city very hurriedly began construction of a parking garage on Main. Perhaps they want it complete to provide parking for all the new construction workers, given that Devon's old construction parking lot is now going to be a school.

All this points to a big development soon. I don't know what is going to happen. My only inside source is I used to represent a homeless guy who sleeps at the bus station. He says the CIA is involved somehow. Apart from that, I don't know. Perhaps there's a spec office tower that will be built on the Preftakes block that will have Devon as an anchor tenant.

Exactly. Some of the "ususal suspects" trying to keep themselves pertinent.

I am not sure who you think needs PR to stay "pertinent". The usual suspects ARE pertinent.

Pete, is your source saying we should finally hear something this month regarding the Stage Center site as well?

Thanks for posting that, Pete. I've kept my mouth shut on this because Steve is a longtime friend of mine, and anything I might say would surely be partisan. But I've become really dismayed how this forum seems to have become a daily referendum on Steve and his work.

Most of the negative posts I see come from people who obviously didn't go to J-school and have no idea how journalism actually works. I often see posts from folks who can't/won't differentiate between (opinion-based) columns, blog posts and hard news. He does an excellent job of staying true to each format.

We (non-journalist users of this board) have the luxury of being able to pass rumor and conjecture here for entertainment's sake and without consequence. Those who are anonymous can even pass falsehoods, with the only risk being the loss of credibility of their anonymous profiles on this board. Steve and other journalists play by a different set of rules. On the record vs. off the record must be respected. Editors must be placated. Facts must be nailed down and sourced.

I personally know of many stories (even a few blockbuster ones) that Steve had basically nailed but could not report because those directly involved remained tight-lipped. Sometimes he can get them nailed anyway thanks to inadvertent public statements by the players, or through open-records requests, but not always. He religiously honors his promises to keep off-the-record conversations and leads exactly that, even though it can be personally frustrating for him. This his how powerful sources are developed; through trust. Steve has powerful sources, largely because they know that they can trust him with off-the-record information. He might not be able to report what they tell him, but he can use it to chase the story and get it nailed elsewhere. He is a master at putting fragments together and figuring out the whole story.

Pete is absolutely correct when laying out how mind-numbing the professional reporting of news stories can be; and they can often take months if not years to come together. Many of us seem to think that major stories (and developments) happen roughly overnight. It often could not be further from the truth. Perhaps scandals reveal themselves suddenly, but large (and real) developments usually do not. For instance, I know for a fact that Steve was on the trail of the Devon Tower story for a couple of years, and had the basic facts nailed months in advance of the official announcement.

Thanks to my friendship with him, I knew many of the facts that he COULD repeat (because he trusted ME not to repeat them), but much as this thread is frustrating to many, there were a large number of things he could NOT tell me, because he had learned them in confidence. I wanted to know more, but he wouldn't/couldn't tell me. End of story. If he would have REPORTED prematurely, he would have burned sources (and placed them at-risk professionally), lost an opportunity to closely cover the construction with Devon's cooperation, and even perhaps might have jeopardized the project itself. That is weighty responsibility.

That's the way he works. If he were in a position where he had everything nailed and could professionally report the mystery tower story without violating journalistic ethics, he would do it. When he can, he will. None of us on this board, besides the other true journalists who occasionally post here, are bound by those types of restrictions, except as set by our own consciences.

I am well aware of the details of Steve's job and limitations therein... But, even given that he's still being a LITTLE BIT of a drama queen. But, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the legitimate work that he does.

But, even given that he's still being a LITTLE BIT of a drama queen.This seems like a good place to inject a personal anecdote: One of the required courses in OU's J-School when I was there in the early 50s was "Ethics of Journalism" and it was taught by Henry H. Herbert, who founded the journalism school back in 1913 or so. The cornerstone of his teaching method was to have a weekly true-or-false quiz on material covered earlier in the week, with the class grading each others' papers, and every question open to challenge. If any student could convince a majority of the class that Mr. Herbert's answer was wrong, then the "correct" answer would be reversed. As he explained, "ethics" wasn't well enough defined to be teachable, so he was teaching us how to evaluate situations and effectively how to think for ourselves. BTW, it was one of the two most important classes in my four years at OU, so far as I'm concerned 61 years after graduation. The other was Walter S. Cambell's course in professional writing, which has guided my career ever since.

Anyway, at one quiz during the last couple of weeks in the semester, it seemed to me that each and every question was so ambiguous as to have no single correct answer. After about a dozen of them, I asked him, "Are you trying to trick us this week?"

And his reply (delivered in his usual dry tone of voice) was, "Mr. Kyle, after teaching this class for almost 40 years, one DOES become a bit bored at times..."

I imagine the same feeling occurs to Steve occasionally!

I am well aware of the details of Steve's job and limitations therein... But, even given that he's still being a LITTLE BIT of a drama queen. But, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the legitimate work that he does.

Yes, and it should also be said that this site is a great outlet and alternative to the traditional journalists and local power brokers that for too long held too much power and frequently abused it.

I think a certain amount of criticism towards the local media is healthy, which is why we have never censored it or much of anything here. Still, it's best for everyone if things remain respectful.

In fact, I've made this point privately a few times: This site and other new media outlets have a great deal of power as long as things don't get so carried away that all the leverage and ability to influence gets discredited by extreme hyperbole.


For their own part, traditional journalists also have to adjust to the new realities of two-way public communication. They may not like to be criticized or challenged -- especially those that spent a good deal of time in the era of the one-directional, loud microphone with heavily censored feedback -- but things have changed forever and there is also a backlog of frustration that is still pouring forth.

Reporters for the Oklahoman will be paying for the sins of their predecessors for quite some time, but that comes with the territory and the paycheck.

Pete, is your source saying we should finally hear something this month regarding the Stage Center site as well?

All I've heard is that the soil tests are complete and it seems all the other preliminary arrangements (easements, etc.) have been resolved as much as they can be at this point.

So, I think they've made all the progress they can until this becomes public and things can move forward in a formal, open manner, such as the various necessary approval processes.


I really do think this is just like the Devon Tower posturing, where they had a ton of meetings behind the scenes but they didn't actually buy the land/garage and jump through any of the other hoops until they had their press conference.

Every time i hear soil test come up I think of some old guy in overalls coming out and grabbing some dirt and saying "Yep, this is definitely soil".

Yes, and it should also be said that this site is a great outlet and alternative to the traditional journalists and local power brokers that for too long held too much power and frequently abused it.

I think a certain amount of criticism towards the local media is healthy, which is why we have never censored it or much of anything here. Still, it's best for everyone if things remain respectful.

In fact, I've made this point privately a few times: This site and other new media outlets have a great deal of power as long as things don't get so carried away that all the leverage and ability to influence gets discredited by extreme hyperbole.


For their own part, traditional journalists also have to adjust to the new realities of two-way public communication. They may not like to be criticized or challenged -- especially those that spent a good deal of time in the era of the one-directional, loud microphone with heavily censored feedback -- but things have changed forever and there is also a backlog of frustration that is still pouring forth.

Reporters for the Oklahoman will be paying for the sins of their predecessors for quite some time, but that comes with the territory and the paycheck.

Great points. My instinct is to defend this site most of the time. There may be some occasional flashes of personal animus here, but for the most part the discussions, even when somewhat controversial, remain civil and respectful. So there have been some moments where I've spoken out to defend this site from what I perceived to be patronizing nonsense. The last thing I would ever want to do is undermine OKCTalk's credibility. But let's keep in mind that this is a message forum where people are encouraged to share ideas and opinions, we're not always going to agree, we don't have all the answers (although we may have solid inside information), and some people are always going to blanch a little when they are questioned or challenged. While striving to keep things from being personal in nature, some people just react to things very personally.

To add: as good of a job as many local journalists do, and as hard as they work, that doesn't place them in a special category beyond reproach. Unlike traditional media, a message forum is a true marketplace of ideas, where anyone can join the discourse provided they don't abuse the privilege. So if we do question a particular journalist, or another poster, or a stakeholder or leader in the community, we should strive to do so in a respectful manner. This is something I'm committing to working on myself.

This seems like a good place to inject a personal anecdote: One of the required courses in OU's J-School when I was there in the early 50s was "Ethics of Journalism" and it was taught by Henry H. Herbert, who founded the journalism school back in 1913 or so. The cornerstone of his teaching method was to have a weekly true-or-false quiz on material covered earlier in the week, with the class grading each others' papers, and every question open to challenge. If any student could convince a majority of the class that Mr. Herbert's answer was wrong, then the "correct" answer would be reversed. As he explained, "ethics" wasn't well enough defined to be teachable, so he was teaching us how to evaluate situations and effectively how to think for ourselves. BTW, it was one of the two most important classes in my four years at OU, so far as I'm concerned 61 years after graduation. The other was Walter S. Cambell's course in professional writing, which has guided my career ever since.

Anyway, at one quiz during the last couple of weeks in the semester, it seemed to me that each and every question was so ambiguous as to have no single correct answer. After about a dozen of them, I asked him, "Are you trying to trick us this week?"

And his reply (delivered in his usual dry tone of voice) was, "Mr. Kyle, after teaching this class for almost 40 years, one DOES become a bit bored at times..."

I imagine the same feeling occurs to Steve occasionally!

It's like you and I took the exact same classes at OU... maybe just a year or two apart, though. lol

I, of all people, would never condemn a good ole funnin. It's practically all I do anymore. BUT, when you decide to stop posting on a message board then go out of your way to take snipes at said message board, then it comes off a little more as "childish tantrum" than "oh, look at that prankster." But, as I said before... I DO appreciate the legitimate work Steve does. I just wish he'd spend more time here on the board telling people like me to "f*** off" rather than run away and scream at me as he reaches the horizon.

I say next two weeks. I have seen hype, and now i have seen this.

My money is on an August 1st announcement: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/HOU/0x0x673719/e7d58aff-8175-438f-b3ba-0abf5f4922da/CNP_News_2013_7_1_General.pdf

So another month :Smiley122

Steve, if you break the story on new tower this month, I will buy you lunch at Richey's Grill (PHF). I met you there before, and I don't know if you tried their Norwegian Turkey Melts, but let's just say they are the best thing ever created! :hungry:

Steve, if you break the story on the new tower this month, I will buy you anything you want from Cuppies and Joe. I have see you there several times but never wanted to impose on your time playing checkers with your children and I don't know if you have tried their frozen hot chocolate, but let's just say it is the best thing ever created! :donatello

G. Walker, you must be as excited right now as a new father eagerly awaits his first born. (It is exciting I agree)

Steve, if you break the story on new tower this month, I will buy you lunch at Richey's Grill (PHF). I met you there before, and I don't know if you tried their Norwegian Turkey Melts, but let's just say they are the best thing ever created! :hungry:

Get their pork tenderloin. It's not on the menu, you just have to ask for it. They don't always have it, but it's excellent.

Ok folks... all these tidbits and appetizers are great. And I've appreciated them. But enough soup and crackers... bring on the main course!
:hungry:

(translation: I want my tower announcement already!)

I want my tower announcement NOW! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!!

http://healthpages.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/baby-crying-287x300.jpg

Will it help if I promise to hold my breath until my face turns blue unless I get some announcement?

:)

Guys, Midfirst Bank is planning on selling their headquarters to CHK. Midfirst owns several subsidiaries with headquarters in other states. Presidential Financial in Atlanta is one example. Meritax in Dallas is another. They're going to build a new tower in downtown OKC to consolidate all business here. Just FYI from one of my business friends (who will remain nameless) who is on the BOD at Midfirst.

Just dangling that carrot.Was this the tower you brought back??? ;)

Also, from what I've heard from another friend in the business world, OGE is indeed looking to possibly build a tower in downtown to consolidate operations...namely OG&E and Enogex, among others.

Continental is entertaining the option of building a new tower but that's in their over 5 years out plan. No concrete plans in the next 5 years.

Guys, Midfirst Bank is planning on selling their headquarters to CHK. Midfirst owns several subsidiaries with headquarters in other states. Presidential Financial in Atlanta is one example. They're going to build a new tower in downtown OKC to consolidate all business here. Just FYI from one of my business friends (who will remain nameless) who is on the BOD at Midfirst.

I think that was true at one time but I can't believe Chesapeake would be buying the MidFirst properties while they are selling other buildings.

They are almost doubling the amount of space on their campus just with the buildings they are opening this year, and at the same time, selling off assets and business units.


I really wish it were true about MidFirst but I think the situation has changed and if anything, they may be buying *from* Chesapeake for their own expansion plans.

Guys, Midfirst Bank is planning on selling their headquarters to CHK. Midfirst owns several subsidiaries with headquarters in other states. Presidential Financial in Atlanta is one example. Meritax in Dallas is another. They're going to build a new tower in downtown OKC to consolidate all business here. Just FYI from one of my business friends (who will remain nameless) who is on the BOD at Midfirst.

I thought this was shot down, also, CHK is downsizing and not interested in MidFirst HQ location anymore, as someone else has confirmed.

American Fidelity had considered downtown but OPUBCO gave them a pretty good deal with plenty if room to expand.,

We have a really good source inside of MidFirst who alerted me about them taking a run at the OPUBCO properties, which is how I knew about American Fidelity actually outbidding them, long before it broke in the press.

And that source told me that MidFirst is not moving now because 1) Chesapeake is no longer in a position to buy their existing properties and 2) Chesapeake may actually sell them the Grand Park buildings.


I would LOVE it if MidFirst built downtown but I really don't think that is going to happen. I think that ship has sailed, just like it did for American Fidelity.

Hope I'm proven wrong!

I thought this was shot down, also, CHK is downsizing and not interested in MidFirst HQ location anymore, as someone else has confirmed.

You're probably right about the buyer for their property. I hadn't heard anything about that lately. But MF would like to consolidate operations so a move from their current property is on the horizon for certain.

CHK is selling a lot of their properties around town that have nothing to do with their general operations, and is likely getting out of the real estate business altogether (after all, they are an ENERGY company), but they'll continue expansion (albeit at a slower rate) of their main campus, as they sell off other properties.

Yeah, but MF hasn't made their move yet. AF has.

Also, from what I've heard from another friend in the business world, OGE is indeed looking to possibly build a tower in downtown to consolidate operations...namely OG&E and Enogex, among others.

Continental is entertaining the option of building a new tower but that's in their over 5 years out plan. No concrete plans in the next 5 years.

You may want to go back and read the previous 20 pages of this thread......OG&E, Enogex and CenterPoint Energy are all over it.

From all of my sources, I think whoever mentioned OGE corp for the SC site is on the money. From what I've heard, Pete Delaney and co. have made an offer already for the SC site.

You may want to go back and read the previous 20 pages of this thread......OG&E, Enogex and CenterPoint Energy are all over it.

Yeah, read my previous post. Delaney and company already put up a bid on the SC site. I know for certain they were one of the 3 finalists bidding for the SC site. Keep in mind that's only for that site though. We have 2-3 companies looking at towers downtown right now.

Look for a 30-40 floor OGE corp tower to share the property with a 6 level parking garage.

hopefully 40 floor!

Welcome back Patrick!!

hopefully 40 floor!

Welcome back Patrick!!

Hey Hot Rod! Good to see you! We helped start OKC Talk back in 2004! Hope all is well in Seattle. I've read some but haven't posted much in a long time, because my medical practice consumes most of my time now.

Patrick, you're kinda scaring me... but in a very good way. :)

You seem quite confident of your sources. Let me ask you this about MF: do you have the slightest inkling of a timeline for when they want to build their tower, and do you have any idea about a possible location?

Patrick, you're kinda scaring me... but in a very good way. :)

You seem quite confident of your sources. Let me ask you this about MF: do you have the slightest inkling of a timeline for when they want to build their tower, and do you have any idea about a possible location?

You know, my sources are just that. So take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't go to Vegas on MF, because I think they could easily stay where they're at for 5+ more years, but I'd say that OGE is better than 50-50. Lets just say that the space that Enogex is leasing is not cheap, and it would streamline operations to move OG&E, Enogex, and CenterPoint into one place. Lets just say that OGE is more than just an electricity utility these days. My source is a business friend who happens to be OGE's accounting VP. I'll leave it at that.

enogex and centerpoint will be housed in a new tower.

/thread

I hope that the new tower will be architecturally stunning and not some generic, boxed tower. Everyone seems to be getting really excited about a changing skyline for OKC!

enogex and centerpoint will be housed in a new tower.

/thread

The only hurdle that must be cleared for this is that it will probably involve multi-state bidding (probably against Texas) with incentive packages.

The only hurdle that must be cleared for this is that it will probably involve multi-state bidding (probably against Texas) with incentive packages.

You don't think they're beyond the bidding stage in the planning process?

I hope that the new tower will be architecturally stunning and not some generic, boxed tower. Everyone seems to be getting really excited about a changing skyline for OKC!

A box would be fine if done right. I do hope it isn't a bland glass structure like so many being built these days. I definitely wouldn't complain if it was, but it would be nice to increase variety in the skyline.

A box would be fine if done right. I do hope it isn't a bland glass structure like so many being built these days. I definitely wouldn't complain if it was, but it would be nice to increase variety in the skyline.

I hope it has some windows.I would go crazy being way up there without being able to look outside.

I hope it has some windows.I would go crazy being way up there without being able to look outside.

Of course. I don't see many skyscrapers being designed without windows today like they were in the 1970s i.e. the AT&T building.

I am hoping it turns out to be something like this.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Wachoviahq.jpg

I have nothing against that building, but I hope that our new tower(s) is (are) more iconic than that. Something people can see the shape of and identify that shape with Oklahoma City. It doesn't have to be a radical design, but, in my opinion, that tower is a just a tad on the generic side (though much better than a glass box).

I'll be happy with most anything, but I would prefer something that is visually distinctive from Devon. If Devon is going to build another tower in the next ten years or so, I'd bet the style would be similar to that of their existing tower. Not that I'd complain about another shiny blue mirror, but we want variety in our skyline to give it a more timeless appearance. At some point people will look at shiny blue mirror towers like we look at big boxes. If you are picking women for a harem you don't necessarily want all blondes.

I think even a 50% bigger version of the Chase Tower on the Stage Center block would contrast against Devon nicely. My preference would be for a limestone exterior, but I'm not sure if anyone is doing that anymore.

I'll be happy with most anything, but I would prefer something that is visually distinctive from Devon. If Devon is going to build another tower in the next ten years or so, I'd bet the style would be similar to that of their existing tower. Not that I'd complain about another shiny blue mirror, but we want variety in our skyline to give it a more timeless appearance. At some point people will look at shiny blue mirror towers like we look at big boxes. If you are picking women for a harem you don't necessarily want all blondes.

I think even a 50% bigger version of the Chase Tower on the Stage Center block would contrast against Devon nicely. My preference would be for a limestone exterior, but I'm not sure if anyone is doing that anymore.

I can't think of a building to be copied that I'd prefer less than Chase Tower, but I do agree some diversity would be nice.

I really like the BOA tower in Charlotte.

I have nothing against that building, but I hope that our new tower(s) is (are) more iconic than that. Something people can see the shape of and identify that shape with Oklahoma City. It doesn't have to be a radical design, but, in my opinion, that tower is a just a tad on the generic side (though much better than a glass box).

I get what you are saying. I think the Devon Tower is our iconic tower. It would be cool if the building is somewhat unique but not truely radical. Something like 700 Louisiana in Houston. It's not their tallest tower but its their most iconic. Houston is instantly recognizable by it.

I can't think of a building to be copied that I'd prefer less than Chase Tower, but I do agree some diversity would be nice.

I really like the BOA tower in Charlotte.

I agree. I am not a huge fan of the 70s box style towers like the Chase tower. Nothing against it, just architecture from that period of time was less than stellar.

I'd say our most iconic building is in the hands of someone who doesn't live here or care about the building or city.

I can't think of a building to be copied that I'd prefer less than Chase Tower

The AT&T building with no windows? :)

I really dislike (what I think of as) the 90s towers that went up in Charlotte and other cities. Ugly, ugly buildings. I'd rather have a big old 70s box.


I'd say our most iconic building is in the hands of someone who doesn't live here or care about the building or city.

Perhaps our best loved, but most people think of First National as a much smaller copy of the ESB.

I've now heard from two good sources that an announcement is coming very soon, probably next week and possibly as early as Monday.

I'm partial because it's where I'm from, but I love the Transco/Williams Tower in Houston (always loved the searchlight at the top as a kid)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/WiliamsTowerFromStreet.jpg

I've now heard from two good sources that an announcement is coming very soon, probably next week and possibly as early as Monday.

I heard this morning that it could be next wednesday, but this was one of those, i overheard someone who overheard someone who knows someone... I'm just throwing it out because i heard it, not because i believe there is any weight to it.

The AT&T building with no windows? :)

I really dislike (what I think of as) the 90s towers that went up in Charlotte and other cities. Ugly, ugly buildings. I'd rather have a big old 70s box.



Perhaps our best loved, but most people think of First National as a much smaller copy of the ESB.

Well, I do dislike that AT&T building, but I find the Chase Tower to be equally depressing. I'll have to look around and see what else might be a good model.

I like Chase Tower.

Looks small now, but I like it. Building architecture is like a tree's growth rings. You can see when and how fast downtown was growing. In the future our 20 year building gap will be fairly visible when Devon and the next few mystery towers get constructed. You'll see the tree went into hibernation in the 80's and then came back to life in the late 00's.

Let me clarify my previous post: I am hearing from more than one source that an announcement regarding the Stage Center site and proposed tower will likely happen next week.

Probably not Monday; more likely the second half of the week.

Thanks for the info Pete. If I had to guess, the announcement will only concern the purchase and demolition and will not reveal the design plans for the new tower.

I said I was using my vacation time as the over/under. I leave on the 27th and I predicted over.