I-35 between Norman and OKC can indeed be a freaking parking lot twice a day ... for about 20-25 minutes in the am and in the pm.

No big. One needs to simply slightly adjust departure times. Then it's just like buttah: smooth, not necessarily good for you, but certainly won't kill you.
Bumping the lanes up hasn't changed this. Adding another pair of lane won't either. Figuring out making I-35 easier is like figuring out downtown parking. You can't put 3X cars in X space, but you can shift over slightly and there's room for all, and then some.

More like from 4.30-6.30 in afternoon. It is indeed rush hours. That is pretty much the norm for all the freeways in the afternoon.Trust me,I drive them everyday.I can tell a huge difference in the amount of traffic now than it was 10 years ago. Not even close.

But Edmond's layout dumps all traffic on a few streets. Edmond always seems more congested to me than Oklahoma City. And if a street in okc get a little backed up, you can just use the grid. In Edmond when it gets congested, you're just screwed.

I don't know, to me, NW OKC seems far more congested than Edmond ever does. Edmond is more congested than the core of OKC is though.

How about we look at it from a different perspective. Maybe the solution to traffic congestion between Norman/Moore and OKC doesn't lie in adding more transportation infrastructure, but having mid/high paying jobs in Norman or Moore. The reality is, there aren't that many decent paying jobs in Moore or Norman, that is why so many people commute to Oklahoma City, because that is where their jobs are located, hence increased traffic. If Norman and Moore would get some big time employers, many people would not have to commute to OKC. Outside of the University of Oklahoma and Norman Regional Health System, Norman really doesn't have adequate mid/high paying jobs. If you are a college student and need a job at restaurant or retail store, you have it made. But if you are graduate and want a decent job with decent pay, OKC is the only choice. Moreover, Moore virtually has no high paying jobs or big time employers, its a shame. That PETCO deal that Norman lost would have brought 500 high paying jobs to the area, would have made a good start. Looking at it from this perspective, it would be lucrative to have the new GE Research Center in Norman or Moore. You can make this case from people commuting from Edmond to OKC, etc. Downtown Oklahoma City does not need to get every big employer, it would be nice for Norman, Moore, or Edmond to land a big energy company that would build an office complex, with 1,000+ jobs, it would work wonders for that city, and boost retail and other developments.

That's a 20 mile commute during rush hour traffic. Why would anyone expect this to be fun or traffic free?
Because Oklahoma City.

How about we look at it from a different perspective. Maybe the solution to traffic congestion between Norman/Moore and OKC doesn't lie in adding more transportation infrastructure, but having mid/high paying jobs in Norman or Moore. The reality is, there aren't that many decent paying jobs in Moore or Norman, that is why so many people commute to Oklahoma City, because that is where their jobs are located, hence increased traffic. If Norman and Moore would get some big time employers, many people would not have to commute to OKC. Outside of the University of Oklahoma and Norman Regional Health System, Norman really doesn't have adequate mid/high paying jobs. If you are a college student and need a job at restaurant or retail store, you have it made. But if you are graduate and want a decent job with decent pay, OKC is the only choice. Moreover, Moore virtually has no high paying jobs or big time employers, its a shame. That PETCO deal that Norman lost would have brought 500 high paying jobs to the area, would have made a good start. Looking at it from this perspective, it would be lucrative to have the new GE Research Center in Norman or Moore. You can make this case from people commuting from Edmond to OKC, etc. Downtown Oklahoma City does not need to get every big employer, it would be nice for Norman, Moore, or Edmond to land a big energy company that would build an office complex, with 1,000+ jobs, it would work wonders for that city, and boost retail and other developments.

The problem with your reasoning above is that it is granular. Okc is not generally competing to get large employers with Moore, Edmond, or Norman. It's competing with Dallas, Kansas City, Indianapolis, little rock, and Denver.

So creating infrastructure to support a central location for jobs is important. Also economies if scale take effect when attracting certain kinds of jobs. Look at Austin and its growing computer/High tech boom. These jobs spread to the suburbs eventually, but having a core with high skilled jobs is most important and better for attracting talent.

So getting people to jobs is secondary to bringing in the jobs for the reasons above. Creating jobs in okc will trickle down. Until then we need a rail transit system that will balance the growth and stop widening the highways.

Back to the tower! Maybe we will hear something this week?

How about we look at it from a different perspective. Maybe the solution to traffic congestion between Norman/Moore and OKC doesn't lie in adding more transportation infrastructure, but having mid/high paying jobs in Norman or Moore. The reality is, there aren't that many decent paying jobs in Moore or Norman, that is why so many people commute to Oklahoma City, because that is where their jobs are located, hence increased traffic. If Norman and Moore would get some big time employers, many people would not have to commute to OKC. Outside of the University of Oklahoma and Norman Regional Health System, Norman really doesn't have adequate mid/high paying jobs. If you are a college student and need a job at restaurant or retail store, you have it made. But if you are graduate and want a decent job with decent pay, OKC is the only choice. Moreover, Moore virtually has no high paying jobs or big time employers, its a shame.....

This reasoning is ridiculous. I mean, what are we even doing here passing these tax initiatives, investing all this money and time in DT if people are too lazy to even come? There aren't that many jobs in Moore because Moore is a suburb. It functions very well as a suburb, cheap housing and decent schools. Norman is a college town that just so happened to grow into a suburb thanks to I-35. I love Norman, but if it weren't for OU Norman would be just your typical run down Oklahoma county seat town, not all that different from El Reno or Chickasha.

Even when downtown was a dump it still had a pretty good percentage of the area's jobs, if for nothing else, it was centrally located so people in Edmond, Norman, Moore, Yukon, MWC, etc. all had equal access. White collar employment is what has made nearly everything DT possible. No jobs=no Devon Tower, no booming culinary scene, no housing, and certainly no "mystery tower."

Moore is not the only place in the United States that has seen its commute times increase. I think a lot of it is the bottleneck at 35 and 240, which is slated for reconstruction whenever ODOT scrapes together the cash to do it. In the mean time, one will need to put on their big boy/girl pants and make a decision about where to live and if its worth it to do the drive. People everywhere have to do this.

Uh yeah, the job density that OKC has is a strength. And why would a corporate office move to Moore over OKC? I mean i can understand but disagre with Memorial, but Moore?


Charlotte has ONE nice interchange, where I-77 intersects with I-485 with a 4-level stack. The rest are cloverleaf interchanges much like I-44/I-235.

Have you seen the construction there?

More like from 4.30-6.30 in afternoon. It is indeed rush hours. That is pretty much the norm for all the freeways in the afternoon.Trust me,I drive them everyday.I can tell a huge difference in the amount of traffic now than it was 10 years ago. Not even close.

That's crazy. It was terrible for me in 1993, so I gave up on Norman and moved to OKC. Never regretted the move. Having that much of my life back, formerly spent commuting, was worth its weight in gold.

Back to the tower! Maybe we will hear something this week?

I heard from some people on-line that a tower announcement is eminent. Just hang in there a bit longer. :)

I don't know, to me, NW OKC seems far more congested than Edmond ever does. Edmond is more congested than the core of OKC is though.

This is true, but I kind of view the two as the same. I will avoid memorial in n okc and broadway in Edmond as much as I can. Both were developed with similar planning strategies that resulted in sprawling corridors of disjointed strip malls and chain restaurants separated by large amounts of parking most of which is navigated by large thoroughfares connected only by streets whose distance from each is measured in half miles instead of blocks. The result is traffic congestion much greater on a daily basis than the core grid of Oklahoma City.

How about we look at it from a different perspective. Maybe the solution to traffic congestion between Norman/Moore and OKC doesn't lie in adding more transportation infrastructure, but having mid/high paying jobs in Norman or Moore. The reality is, there aren't that many decent paying jobs in Moore or Norman, that is why so many people commute to Oklahoma City, because that is where their jobs are located, hence increased traffic. If Norman and Moore would get some big time employers, many people would not have to commute to OKC. Outside of the University of Oklahoma and Norman Regional Health System, Norman really doesn't have adequate mid/high paying jobs. If you are a college student and need a job at restaurant or retail store, you have it made. But if you are graduate and want a decent job with decent pay, OKC is the only choice. Moreover, Moore virtually has no high paying jobs or big time employers, its a shame. That PETCO deal that Norman lost would have brought 500 high paying jobs to the area, would have made a good start. Looking at it from this perspective, it would be lucrative to have the new GE Research Center in Norman or Moore. You can make this case from people commuting from Edmond to OKC, etc. Downtown Oklahoma City does not need to get every big employer, it would be nice for Norman, Moore, or Edmond to land a big energy company that would build an office complex, with 1,000+ jobs, it would work wonders for that city, and boost retail and other developments.

I disagree 100% with this sentiment. If these people want to work here, they need to buck up and move to OKC or sit in traffic. The solution to improving this is not to "take jobs away from OKC and add more to Norman and Moore." I'm a Norman native, and I hope it continues to improve, but the relative economic health of OKC is the driver for the entire region.

There are a lot of folks who want to live in a bedroom community for various reasons. Fine. I support them. But we need to quit bending over for them. They're going to have to sit in a bit of traffic due to their decision. We cannot cater to them.

I heard from some people on-line that a tower announcement is eminent. Just hang in there a bit longer. :)

I'm sure the announcement will be eminent in some way. I just hope it's imminent -- like real soon!
:wink:

Uh yeah, the job density that OKC has is a strength. And why would a corporate office move to Moore over OKC? I mean i can understand but disagre with Memorial, but Moore?



Have you seen the construction there?

I left about a year ago. Maybe they have started rebuilding interchanges since I left.

I heard from some people on-line that a tower announcement is eminent. Just hang in there a bit longer. :)

And what kind of time frame do your sources expect? 24 hours? 48? 72? 73? 74? 75? Be specific. :wink:

I'm sure the announcement will be eminent in some way. I just hope it's imminent -- like real soon!
:wink:

Good one. That is what I meant. I'm told an announcement is so close I can taste it, but I have must have partaken in the cursed Aztec gold with the Black Pearl crew because I don't taste anything. :)

Personally I would rather talk about freeways and spreading jobs across 1,000 sq miles to reduce traffic congestion.

...... I'm told an announcement is so close I can taste it, but I have must have partaken in the cursed Aztec gold with the Black Pearl crew because I don't taste anything. :).

I've been tasting it for quite awhile now myself, and I have to say... the flavor is getting a bit rancid. :(

What? There is a new office tower coming? Wow, I forgot all about it. :fighting4

With OKC's current infrastructure, what would be the guess as to how many people we could hold and still function reasonably? Obviously where the extra population is placed would make a difference but assuming the most strategic. Would going from 600k to about 1M and the metro from 1.3M to 2.5M+ be a realistic guess?


That is probably about right. I would say OKC's current infrastructure could support about 3 million people. Downtown is going to get denser but there is still a lot of suburban infill that can be done. I do think existing freeways will need to be widened though to support that many people. In an OKC with 3 million people, I wouldn't even want to think of what I-35 and I-44 will look like. I think I-35 could already stand to be widened to at least 4 lanes going each direction between Norman and downtown. Plan for the future and make it 5 lanes going each direction with one HOV lane.

I really hope we don't see 3 million people here in my lifetime. Traffic and crime are bad enough as it is with what we have now. 3 million people...GROSS!

I would love 3 million people, doesn't 3 million come with more towers????? ;)

That's crazy. It was terrible for me in 1993, so I gave up on Norman and moved to OKC. Never regretted the move. Having that much of my life back, formerly spent commuting, was worth its weight in gold.
You could have been posting for me, except my move was in '92.

You could have been posting for me, except my move was in '92.

People complaining about traffic here are nuts. It takes what, 40 minutes in the heart of rush hour to get from DT OKC to Norman? That's hardly a parking lot. Have you ever driven in the Bay Area? Dallas? Houston? That same distances takes HOURS. And rush hour starts before 3PM and lasts well after 7 in those places.

Heck even Austin is terrible now. Now that's a city that outgrew it's infrastructure 10 years ago and is still catching up.

People complaining about traffic here are nuts. It takes what, 40 minutes in the heart of rush hour to get from DT OKC to Norman? That's hardly a parking lot. Have you ever driven in the Bay Area? Dallas? Houston? That same distances takes HOURS. And rush hour starts before 3PM and lasts well after 7 in those places.

Heck even Austin is terrible now. Now that's a city that outgrew it's infrastructure 10 years ago and is still catching up.

True, but I don't want to spend 80 minutes of every day sitting in traffic, capisce? That's why I chose to ditch commuting. If I were to live in the other cities you mentioned, I would try to live as close to my employer, or good, reliable public transit, or I simply wouldn't live in those cities at all.

This is true, but I kind of view the two as the same. I will avoid memorial in n okc and broadway in Edmond as much as I can. Both were developed with similar planning strategies that resulted in sprawling corridors of disjointed strip malls and chain restaurants separated by large amounts of parking most of which is navigated by large thoroughfares connected only by streets whose distance from each is measured in half miles instead of blocks. The result is traffic congestion much greater on a daily basis than the core grid of Oklahoma City.

This

Why can't these developers get together and come up with a cohesive, people friendly layout? One that's aesthetically pleasing, makes sense and is easy to navigate whether it be by car, foot or otherwise.

:ot:


Can we start another highway thread?

Or an urban vs suburban thread?

Or a thread about attracting new businesses to Norman.

Oh wait, we've got those threads already....

No... This^

Nowhere in the thread title does it state that this should be a debate/speculation on urban vs. suburban issues, or highway design. For the love of god, please take the conversion somewhere else. I wish half the threads here would stop disintegrating into that discussion.

Message board.

Just spoke to the wife of a long term Enogex HQ employee and he hasn't told her anything yet....He was told back in April that they'd have some merger news around the first week of July.

:ot:


Can we start another highway thread?

Or an urban vs suburban thread?

Or a thread about attracting new businesses to Norman.

Oh wait, we've got those threads already....

Sorry, I open like 8 threads at once, close them as I finish reading. So the conversation tends to drift sometimes.

Back on topic:

I think a 40 minute commute from Norman to this MYSTERY TOWER is not bad at all. That becomes part of your analysis when you choose where to live. Live closer and pay more or live farther away, drive more, and pay less. If you continue to widen highways then you just encourage people to live farther away from their jobs at the MYSTERY TOWER.

Seriously though, we've basically hit a dead period. We could be down to a few days before an announcement. I expect to either log in here and see 20+ pages have been added to this thread overnight, or to see a big press release first.

Seriously though, we've basically hit a dead period. We could be down to a few days before an announcement. I expect to either log in here and see 20+ pages have been added to this thread overnight, or to see a big press release first.

That could very well happen. I mean, I'll probably contribute about 10 pages alone that consist of me shouting WOOHOO!!! along with photos of rainbows sprouting and unicorns prancing.

That could very well happen. I mean, I'll probably contribute about 10 pages alone that consist of me shouting WOOHOO!!! along with photos of rainbows sprouting and unicorns prancing.

one, you forgot the glitter.
two, perhaps this might be of use to you ... Find Me A Hobby. 101 Hobby Ideas. (http://www.findmeahobby.com/)


I keed, I keed

Charlotte has ONE nice interchange, where I-77 intersects with I-485 with a 4-level stack. The rest are cloverleaf interchanges much like I-44/I-235.

Interesting, I have driven a 20-30 times through Charlotte between Atlanta and Raleigh on I-85 - the few times on I-77 were much less busy. Hitting Charlotte at the wrong time means sitting still - or moving slowly for at least an hour. A couple of times I took the loop - which only goes about 90% around - and it was nearly empty, maybe timing. In this respect it reminded me of Jacksonville Fl, the loop is large and under-used. I've driven coast to coast on I-10, I-40, I-20, and north to south on I-95, I-85, I-35, and I-25. Few sections of interstate in the US (and yes, I have driven others - just not their entire length) are as busy as I-85 is from Raleigh NC to Atlanta GA. The center of this is I-85 in Charlotte where I-77 adds to the the Northeast (Bosh-Wash) traffic going to the Southern mega-cities of Atlanta, Houston, Dallas. Only Washington to New York and I - 95 in Miami are as busy over-all. There are sections in all areas that are just as busy for a while - like OKC at rush hour, but few sustain the traffic. Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston are busy all the time. But these are huge metros. The Raleigh/Durham metro is now larger, but not as centralized as Charlotte, and therefore are more like OKC - rush hour busy. OKC roads are generally better than Charlotte, but are also more extensive and harder to up-keep.

one, you forgot the glitter.
two, perhaps this might be of use to you ... Find Me A Hobby. 101 Hobby Ideas. (http://www.findmeahobby.com/)


I keed, I keed

Wow. It's like you're William Shatner, and I'm a Trekkie at a convention. The slap, the sting! :wink:

That's ok. I do have a life. Which right now consists mostly of waiting for a tower announcement (well, plus all that unimportant real world stuff too).
:)

My commute will seem much shorter and be Much More enjoyable if i can look up and see Tower Cranes working on a new Tower for the next several years . Hows that? On topic & off at same time! I hope for an announcement soon, I have driven everybody i know away with questions.

An announcement will not be an end, it will be a new beginning!

Waiting for it to break ground, obsessively watching the new tower cam (oh yes, there will be one), dissecting every aspect of it's design and construction...

And of course, there will be others, and probably soon!


Still hope to hear something official on Tower #1 by the end of the month.

I know I look like a Pete fanboy by liking the post, but hey, it captures the spirit of the thread.

I know I look like a Pete fanboy by liking the post, but hey, it captures the spirit of the thread.

Is that the spirit if commuting times or the mystery tower?

So, Sid, where are some spots in DT for a tower to go? Stage Center, Preftakes block, Cox Convention Center (when it is redeveloped). Where else?

::yes, this is to get us back on topic::

Is that the spirit if commuting times or the mystery tower?

Catch the mist
Catch the myth
Catch the mystery
Catch the drift

:rock_guit

So, Sid, where are some spots in DT for a tower to go? Stage Center, Preftakes block, Cox Convention Center (when it is redeveloped). Where else?

::yes, this is to get us back on topic::

I still really want to see something come out of the 4th and EKG property. That spot is begging for a 30-35 story tower.

So, Sid, where are some spots in DT for a tower to go? Stage Center, Preftakes block, Cox Convention Center (when it is redeveloped). Where else?

All of the above. Plus any of the numerous surface parking lots in downtown -- for example, along Hudson.

(No, I'm not Sid -- pardon my protruding :wink:)

Sorry, I open like 8 threads at once, close them as I finish reading. So the conversation tends to drift sometimes.

Back on topic:

I think a 40 minute commute from Norman to this MYSTERY TOWER is not bad at all. That becomes part of your analysis when you choose where to live. Live closer and pay more or live farther away, drive more, and pay less. If you continue to widen highways then you just encourage people to live farther away from their jobs at the MYSTERY TOWER.

Seriously though, we've basically hit a dead period. We could be down to a few days before an announcement. I expect to either log in here and see 20+ pages have been added to this thread overnight, or to see a big press release first.


WOW, JUST, WOW!:treadmill

Catch the mist
Catch the myth
Catch the mystery
Catch the drift

:rock_guit

don't Rush to judge...lol.

keeping up with this thread is a part time job. Idea: once the tower is actually announced, let's make it a sticky? (That way, users won't have to check it daily to see updates on non-mystery-tower-related-ramblings)

keeping up with this thread is a part time job. Idea: once the tower is actually announced, let's make it a sticky? (That way, users won't have to check it daily to see updates on non-mystery-tower-related-ramblings)

I imagine there will be a new thread for the tower and this thread will continue with speculation about the next one.

We have talked about a mystery tower so much, and even speculated about speculation for so long, it's not even exciting anymore for me, I am burned out on it.

It's like when I was a kid and it's now 2 days before Christmas. I've speculated on my presents so much that there's little to do but wait now. I'm still excited, but there's only so much I can wonder what is in the boxes.

keeping up with this thread is a part time job. Idea: once the tower is actually announced, let's make it a sticky? (That way, users won't have to check it daily to see updates on non-mystery-tower-related-ramblings)

I'm assuming that once it's announced, the name of the thread will change since it will no longer be a mystery and we will have a name to put to it.

I'm assuming that once it's announced, the name of the thread will change since it will no longer be a mystery and we will have a name to put to it.

I imagine this thread will stay the same, waiting on the next Mystery tower announcement.....that said, the new building announced will get its own thread.

We are now speculating on the thread the speculative tower will be discussed in once announced?

Lord have mercy

Is this what Inception feels like?

I imagine this thread will stay the same, waiting on the next Mystery tower announcement.....that said, the new building announced will get its own thread.

You have discovered the magic of the Mystery Tower thread. It will never die because there will all be a mystery tower, and no matter how long it takes, everyone speculating in the mystery tower thread will be proven right. I don't know what OKCTalk will look like in 100 years but I do know that this thread will be alive and well. :)

We were thinking the same thing.

This is a Mystery Tower Thread in a Mystery Tower in a Mystery Tower Thread...

I believe this is appropriate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOYGCbNxpk

4084

So anyone yet got an idea for how we celebrate getting to over 200 pages of absolutely nothing? :P

I don't know, but I highly doubt we will get an announcement this month. This reminds of the beginning March, where "sources" were saying we would have an announcement by the end of March, and we had a countown and everything, but nothing. 5 months later and we are still waiting, so how resourceful are these so called "sources"?

None of us would be qualified to become a jedi cause none of us have the patience...

Dark Side, baby. Faster, easier, more seductive. I'm all about that.

I don't know, but I highly doubt we will get an announcement this month. This reminds of the beginning March, where "sources" were saying we would have an announcement by the end of March, and we had a countown and everything, but nothing. 5 months later and we are still waiting, so how resourceful are these so called "sources"?

Multi million dollar real estate deals don't work on your schedule.

None of us would be qualified to become a jedi cause none of us have the patience...

:fighting4

None of us would be qualified to become a jedi cause none of us have the patience...

I take offense to that remark! :)