Yeah so it's almost June.

Why oh why did I open this thread...

Well it's still more promising than the AICM thread

Why oh why did I open this thread...

This

This

Because it's just this - ( speculation, news and ideas)

Because it's just this - ( speculation, news and ideas)

I know, I know. I'm not the only one that's guilty of opening this thread, but it's like the title of this thread should be "Beware of Impending Derail..." lol.

I know, I know. I'm not the only one that's guilty of opening this thread, but it's like the title of this thread should be "Beware of Impending Derail..." lol.

Or "Go ahead, get your hopes up"

Or "Go ahead, get your hopes up"

Haha

Not exactly "Mystery Tower" related, but in yesterday's chat Steve said to expect more mid-rise residential towers in the next few years.

Did anyone ask how many stories mid-rise is in the eyes of Oklahoma developers planners and architects?

Did anyone ask how many stories mid-rise is in the eyes of Oklahoma developers planners and architects?

I don't know what Oklahoma developers, planners, and architects would say, but Steve said under 20 stories.

Did anyone ask how many stories mid-rise is in the eyes of Oklahoma developers planners and architects?

In most places, >4 to about 12-15 is considered mid-rise. But, it isn't an absolute. >4 shouldn't be stick built, so is another category, but the top end is subjective and often a matter of local perspective. To me, in OKC, 20 would be a high rise.

I was thinking 25+, but yeah, I think if they're developed closer to the core then taller is better...if away from the core, infill is better.

I am not worried.

I am not worried.

Me either.....Towers are getting ready to shoot up like daisies

He said they would be 20 and under.

He said they would be 20 and under.

A bunch of 20 stories and under and 5 biguns will do for now...:D

Yeah, a bunch of 15-20 story buildings on the edges of the C2S park will go a hell of a long way to improving the appearance of our downtown. Add to that the new MLP tower on the Stage Center site at 800-900 feet tall (Steve mentioned that one of them would be "transformational" to the city skyline), a 500 foot tall OG&E tower on Hudson and Robert S Kerr, a residential high rise and a convention hotel high rise, and we'll be in business.

Yeah, a bunch of 15-20 story buildings on the edges of the C2S park will go a hell of a long way to improving the appearance of our downtown. Add to that the new MLP tower on the Stage Center site at 800-900 feet tall (Steve mentioned that one of them would be "transformational" to the city skyline), a 500 foot tall OG&E tower on Hudson and Robert S Kerr, a residential high rise and a convention hotel high rise, and we'll be in business.

Sounds great. The question is.... "when?"

Sounds great. The question is.... "when?"

Tomorrow....three years from now.

Do we win a prize for announcing the correct business and its location?

Do we win a prize for announcing the correct business and its location?

You will win the prize for announcing the date of the announcement........!

Do we win a prize for announcing the correct business and its location?

Yes. Sid will buy you a drink at Skinny Slim's... if you buy him one first.

The Mystery tower will not be a second Devon tower, so we can scratch that one off the rumor list.

No second Devon Tower, company says in internal memo | News OK (http://newsok.com/no-second-devon-tower-company-says-in-internal-memo/article/3841827)

The Mystery tower will not be a second Devon tower, so we can scratch that one off the rumor list.

No second Devon Tower, company says in internal memo | News OK (http://newsok.com/no-second-devon-tower-company-says-in-internal-memo/article/3841827)

See post #11375 by Pete at 11:04am yesterday:

Devon Energy Center (Devon Tower) - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Devon+Energy+Center+Devon+Tower&highlight=devon&page=228)

I'm very sure that article came directly from reading this site.

That's completely fine -- Brianna and Steve and I stay in close contact and there is great mutual benefit -- but it also should be said this happens fairly often without any credit to OKCTalk.

I'm very sure that article came directly from reading this site.

That's completely fine -- Brianna and Steve and I stay in close contact and there is great mutual benefit -- but it also should be said this happens fairly often without any credit to OKCTalk.

I wondered about that. I've noticed that articles pop up a couple hours after I read it on OKCTalk. It seems a little hypocritical for a journalist not to cite their source. Then again, maybe OKCTalk was never the source and it was just a coincidence.

I don't expect them to cite us as a source every time they pick up on something here then go get / confirm information. Or, for that matter, when I write or call them and share something.

But it would be nice to show us the same courtesy I've always shown them: To advocate for their work, promote them whenever possible, express great respect and to give credit where credit is due.

Steve does that here to some extent but not in his articles, which have a much broader audience. At the same time, he's taken some pretty big swipes at OKCTalk in his chats and blog, and I'm not referring to just the latest incident that has been discussed and led to his at least temporary hiatus from posting here.

Ironic, given his chats are about 90% driven by OKCTalk regulars. And no doubt there is a lot of overlap with his blog visitors as well.


BTW, there is no way to know if this particular article was instigated by me posting the Devon internal memo, but I'd bet it was.

And even if it wasn't, I'm speaking in broader terms here because there are many times where I have provided direct information.

Pete, you have to remember that they are probably constrained by company policy. Back when I was one of the handful of staff writers for the Oklahoman, that policy was (to quote my city editor, the late Chan Guffey) "It isn't news until we print it" and by extension, that meant absolutely no citation of other media as sources... Dunno if it's still the same today, almost 60 years later, but I'd not be amazed to learn that it is.

At some point -- and it may be soon -- I want to start an entire separate conversation on this topic.

There is much to be said and discussed on the broader subject of traditional vs. new media and the important roles they both play.


As I've stated emphatically many, many times: I'm a huge advocate for the Oklahoman and traditional reporting.

But what we do here is very valuable as well and I probably need to do a better job of taking credit for the site and our entire on-line community.

Well, to be fair the source was the Devon Intranet which is available to all Devon employees. I would find it hard to believe she and Steve dont have at least one or two sources thats keeps them informed of what goes on in the company. At least whats going on openly.

Not to say they havent looked on here for leads before.

Well, to be fair the source was the Devon Intranet which is available to all Devon employees. I would find it hard to believe she and Steve dont have at least one or two sources thats keeps them informed of what goes on in the company. At least whats going on openly.

Not to say they havent looked on here for leads before.

There is a big difference between getting confirmation once something is posted here versus an insider sending them something at the outset. I don't think the latter happens very often, if at all. They do have the ability to call official spokespeople for Devon and the like and they will almost always respond. But that's only after the cat is out of the bag.

And there was a recent incident where I posted an internal communication and was contacted by an Oklahoman reporter asking me to help verify the source. So clearly, this site was the source for the primary information and they asked ME for a contact to confirm. I never reveal sources, which is why so many share with me and the site. In the end, the Oklahoman either found another source to confirm or felt confident enough in the information to go with the story.


But again, I'm not talking just about this story or even a few of them. There have been many times where I have sent them direct information and they have never once mentioned OKCTalk in any of their mainstream articles.

That's fine and dandy, but I did want to point out that this site does deserve credit, even if we are never mentioned by reporters.

Keep in mind that one of the greatest benefits of this site is we have hundreds / thousands of people on the inside and/or that know things first hand, and they can either post anonymously or forward something to me.

No exaggeration, I have received hundreds of messages from those that don't want to post something directly, even with an anonymous screen name. I can assure you these people are not contacting the Oklahoman.


Also, it's not that difficult to tell when someone really knows what they are talking about. We've been out front on lots of stories and haven't been wrong yet.

It's true we don't have to get multiple confirmations or run the same risks as traditional media, but that's part of the beauty of OKCTalk and why it's such a great compliment to the Oklahoman.

At some point -- and it may be soon -- I want to start an entire separate conversation on this topic.

There is much to be said and discussed on the broader subject of traditional vs. new media and the important roles they both play.


As I've stated emphatically many, many times: I'm a huge advocate for the Oklahoman and traditional reporting.

But what we do here is very valuable as well and I probably need to do a better job of taking credit for the site and our entire on-line community.

I agree--start asserting credit. I get as much of, if not more of, my news about these developments from OKCTalk as I do The Oklahoman. I remember "breaking" a minor development story on here a year ago and an Oklahoman reporter insisted I was wrong (because that reporter hadn't kept up with the story), even though I had first-hand, direct knowledge of the development. A couple weeks later that same reporter printed a story confirming everything we discussed/posted at OKCTalk because that reporter followed up with their sources to check into the claims we were making and found them to be correct.

king, you are one of those here that have provided a good deal of advanced information and it's all proven out.

We actually have a lot that fit this category, although many prefer that I post on their behalf.


If I wasn't so careful about revealing sources, you'd all be amazed at who frequents this site and shares information.

Like any internet site, we have some crackpots but that in no way diminishes all the fantastic stuff that gets posted here. It's really not hard to get past the fluff and those that lack credibility to get the firm information.


Way too easy for traditional journalists to dismiss things like OKCTalk by pointing out the bad in an attempt to completely discredit the good.

...Like any internet site, we have some crackpots...

Hey, I resemble that remark! :wink:

I don't post much, but you regular posters keep me coming back here daily with your info and I wish yall got more credit for it. Nobody loves OKC more then you guys and I know multiple people who never post here that love this site! OKCTalk is the GO-TO news source for everything OKC related, no news station or paper has anything on the stuff that is posted here. Don't get discouraged, you all are loved for the work and knowledge you all provide.

I don't post much, but you regular posters keep me coming back here daily with your info and I wish yall got more credit for it. Nobody loves OKC more then you guys and I know multiple people who never post here that love this site! OKCTalk is the GO-TO news source for everything OKC related, no news station or paper has anything on the stuff that is posted here. Don't get discouraged, you all are loved for the work and knowledge you all provide.

Thanks so much. Made my day!


I try not to be overly sensitive as this is the Internet after all, but I do take pride in what has been built here, especially since it's in aid of helping Oklahoma City be a better community.

And obviously, I've personally put a lot of blood, sweat and money into this site and like to think it's a pretty awesome resource. Far from perfect to be sure, but for a message board even the bad stuff is pretty darn minimal.


I should do a better job of documenting and promoting all the great things that get posted here and how OKC has benefited as a result. It's getting to be a pretty long list.

Pete, I heavily agree with all of your statements. When I saw the article, I was almost certain that OkcTalk was going to be mentioned in it, and nothing. :/

Pete, are you still hearing anything about mystery tower possibilities from other sources/companies? Anything you can share with us?

Still think there is going to be an announcement regarding the Stage Center site in the next couple of months.

Wouldn't be surprised to hear something about a new OG&E HQ before the end of the year, too.


We know Devon, Continental and SandRidge are all out of the running for the time being.

Still suspect the Stage Center site will be for the new OG&E/Enogex entity, which will be completely separate from the OG&E HQ.

I am a classically trained journalist and an Okie down to my core. I have lived in different places, but now I'm in Oklahoma and I'm doing to die here. The issues of OKC civic development and civic pride are very, very important to me.

Having said all that... I will also say that this forum is my #1 go-to spot for anything regarding these very topics. I don't go to the newspaper and I don't go to the local news. For discerning citizens that have their eyes open, the newspaper and other local news outlets are tantamount to snail mail. While I'm not saying they are obsolete or unnecessary, the ways they are required to do business has shackled them in many ways. And, in response to this you have seen those folks often look for creative ways to gain some ground back. I can't blame Steve or any other reporter/journalist for using this forum as a way to try to stay a step ahead of their competitors... However, it only highlights the painfully obvious fact that in many ways they are attached to an industry that is behind the 8-ball, if not already on the clock.

We definitely live in a world with a sense of "new media." Unfortunately any yahoo with a twitter account and even just a glimmer of knowledge of Wordpress can present himself/herself to the world as a "news outlet." And, while this group of people should at least be universally discounted and categorized as non-entities... this site and the work Pete does should not be viewed anywhere near the same stratosphere. In my eyes what we have here is a valuable resource for folks that care about OKC and its future.

Keep doing what you are doing!

I'm very sure that article came directly from reading this site.

That's completely fine -- Brianna and Steve and I stay in close contact and there is great mutual benefit -- but it also should be said this happens fairly often without any credit to OKCTalk.


I wondered about that. I've noticed that articles pop up a couple hours after I read it on OKCTalk. It seems a little hypocritical for a journalist not to cite their source. Then again, maybe OKCTalk was never the source and it was just a coincidence.

I'm sure sometimes it's coincidence, but I know certain journalists I've tipped off at Oklahoman on breaking news, and they didn't cite me (not that I care much), but I know the Oklahoman is very bad about citing sources. I'm sure they view it as a "threat" to their "credibility".

Umm, do you know something the rest of us don't know? ;)

Sid, I always know something....its my job

Sid, I always know something....its my job

Please tell, please tell

Sid, I always know something....its my job

I'm sure you can't say......but how 'bout a clue or two ?

Still think there is going to be an announcement regarding the Stage Center site in the next couple of months.

Wouldn't be surprised to hear something about a new OG&E HQ before the end of the year, too.


We know Devon, Continental and SandRidge are all out of the running for the time being.

Still suspect the Stage Center site will be for the new OG&E/Enogex entity, which will be completely separate from the OG&E HQ.

Then it doesn't sound like whatever goes onto the Stage Center site will be significant enough to justify demolition of an AIA gold theater venue. OG+E needs two large skyscrapers like SR needed its corporate campus vision. Something's gotta give.

This whole OKC skyscraper speculation thing was a bubble. Now that the bubble has simmered down, perhaps we can enjoy another era of reasonable land use and downtown development vision.

Then it doesn't sound like whatever goes onto the Stage Center site will be significant enough to justify demolition of an AIA gold theater venue. OG+E needs two large skyscrapers like SR needed its corporate campus vision. Something's gotta give.

This whole OKC skyscraper speculation thing was a bubble. Now that the bubble has simmered down, perhaps we can enjoy another era of reasonable land use and downtown development vision.
Buzz Killington.

The one for the Stage Center site will not be for OG&E -- this will be a completely separate, free-standing entity.

Think Devon, not OG&E.

Then it doesn't sound like whatever goes onto the Stage Center site will be significant enough to justify demolition of an AIA gold theater venue. OG+E needs two large skyscrapers like SR needed its corporate campus vision. Something's gotta give.

This whole OKC skyscraper speculation thing was a bubble. Now that the bubble has simmered down, perhaps we can enjoy another era of reasonable land use and downtown development vision.

So you are saying the cc site may be affordable after all and maybe there isn't such a long list of developers bidding on it?

This whole OKC skyscraper speculation thing was a bubble. Now that the bubble has simmered down, perhaps we can enjoy another era of reasonable land use and downtown development vision.

perhaps you remember a time i don't... when was the era or reasonable land use and downtown development vision? the 1930's?

New Devon MLP?

Devon Energy launching new publicly traded firm | News OK (http://newsok.com/devon-energy-launching-new-publicly-traded-firm/article/3842419)

Maybe Devon itself isn't building a new tower, but what about Devon Jr?

Yeah, if and when they are really out of space in their tower it would make sense that this somewhat independent entity could be moved across the street.

Yeah, if and when they are really out of space in their tower it would make sense that this somewhat independent entity could be moved across the street.

I've always thought SandRidge had plans to spin off their Midstream into an MLP and build at the EKG site, when we found out that it was bought for an affiliate of SD. A lot of tax advantage for the MLP's.

I know they're out of the mystery for now, but does Continental begin to look at new digs again once this divorce issue is settled for Mr. Hamm?

I know they're out of the mystery for now, but does Continental begin to look at new digs again once this divorce issue is settled for Mr. Hamm?

They have to be looking at options once they run out of space, which is going to happen in the near future given their growth and goals.

I believe they were interested in the Stage Center site but the timing wasn't right.

New Devon MLP?

Devon Energy launching new publicly traded firm | News OK (http://newsok.com/devon-energy-launching-new-publicly-traded-firm/article/3842419)

Maybe Devon itself isn't building a new tower, but what about Devon Jr?

I don't know, there has been a lot smoke surrounding Devon this week. With the announcement of receiving $67M in incentives from the state to create 989 jobs over the next 10 years, to the internal memo stating no new tower is being built, to now this new MLP being launched, something is cookin', and it ain't grits, lol.

Hold onto your hats because I have some new and very solid information...


I'm told that the Stage Center deal is done but pending the release of the easement of what was California street.

This probably means what we suspected all along: That entire block will be redeveloped all the way to Reno (see graphic below).

I'm also told that as soon as this issue is resolved, there will be an almost immediate announcement of a new tower, and that it will be for a local company which will be consolidating it's operations to that site, ala Devon. Don't know the company but there are only a few that fit the profile: MidFirst and OG&E being my best guesses.


There is also a second tower very much in progress and that will involve bringing in jobs from out of state. I suspect this is the new Enogex entity, but can't be sure. Also not sure if this would go on this same block or elsewhere.


However, it seems one tower announcement for the Stage Center site is imminent and another tower could be revealed before the end of the year.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mystery1.jpg

thanks

By the way, Steve commented on the recent Devon internal memo that emphatically stated they don't have any current plans to build a new tower...

Said that's pretty much what they were saying right up until they announced their HQ.

I don't think they are involved in either one of these towers, other than as a recruiter. But you can bet they will eventually be building again downtown, and maybe not too far into the future.