If I've read Pete's posts correctly, He's hearing OGE is snooping around, I believe, at the NW corner of RSKerr/Hudson (I think specifically, he's said "North of the Arts Museum"). That would make financial sense: half the block is surface parking, it's right by their current headquarters and (I assume) parking garage..

If Centerpoint partnership with OG&E were to build on the stage center, would it make sense for OG&E to build next to them? (I belive it was stated before of a possibility of two towers on the stage center)

I kind of wonder if they wouldn't share the Stage Center site in one facility ? It would justify the large building rumor we've been hearing..

Maybe a supertall :D

From Steve's chat - Steve still not worried. It was stated two towers are possible....

Don't think OG&E would go on the Stage Center site for political reasons. Also, it's a bit too high profile for a public utility.

I believe the midstream entity would take the SC site and OG&E would build elsewhere downtown. Two completely separate projects.

Two projects, both on Hudson, would be really awesome. Would give us a great deal more density.

Don't think OG&E would go on the Stage Center site for political reasons. Also, it's a bit too high profile for a public utility.

I believe the midstream entity would take the SC site and OG&E would build elsewhere downtown. Two completely separate projects.

Are you still hearing that OG&E continues to sniff around? What's the latest?

Last fall, I heard OG&E wanted to build a tall, skinny tower taller than the Devon tower. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing that.

From todays chat -


10:18 a.m. Steve, I've now heard from two separate, credible sources that we can expect an announcement within the next two weeks on the so-called mystery tower that has been plaguing the minds of internet forum luminaries for more than a year. What do you think?



Steve Lackmeyer - 10:18 a.m. I am not worried.

From todays chat -


10:18 a.m. Steve, I've now heard from two separate, credible sources that we can expect an announcement within the next two weeks on the so-called mystery tower that has been plaguing the minds of internet forum luminaries for more than a year. What do you think?



Steve Lackmeyer - 10:18 a.m. I am not worried.

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread. For what it's worth, the Mayor made some odd/interesting statements at the annual Mayor's Development Roundtable on Wednesday. He specifically asked his co-panelists during the roundtable about how to treat historical structures and what their recommended thresholds for demolition were.

He made some other odd comments too, but that's for another thread.

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread. For what it's worth, the Mayor made some odd/interesting statements at the annual Mayor's Development Roundtable on Wednesday. He specifically asked his co-panelists during the roundtable about how to treat historical structures and what their recommended thresholds for demolition were.

He made some other odd comments too, but that's for another thread.

Well, a rotting Stage Center should certainly be a candidate for demolition if a higher use project (Mystery Tower) comes along.

I just cant wait for an announcement, I hope too see the two possible mystery towers and the cc hotel go up all at the same time.

Boom Town! 5 towers in 5 years...

Boom Town! 5 towers in 5 years...

That's a little much in my opinion, but I think 3 would be reasonable in 5 years.

I don't know if 5 in 5 is a boomtown. I drove thru downtown Orlando earlier this week and they have 6 cranes adding to their skyline.

I was in Denver last week and they had 4 or 5 tall developments. (Mid rise for them, high rise for us) under construction.

5 new skyscrapers in even 10 years would be phenomenal for us.

I was in Denver last week and they had 4 or 5 tall developments. (Mid rise for them, high rise for us) under construction.

Devon Tower 'towers' over Denver's tallest - about 140 feet taller. If the Mystery Tower comes in at the purported 40 floors, we'll have 2 towers taller than Denver's tallest.

I don't know if 5 in 5 is a boomtown. I drove thru downtown Orlando earlier this week and they have 6 cranes adding to their skyline.

two years ago, counting the Health Science center, we had 9 cranes up at one time.

Devon Tower 'towers' over Denver's tallest - about 140 feet taller. If the Mystery Tower comes in at the purported 40 floors, we'll have 2 towers taller than Denver's tallest.

I'd take Denver's downtown over ours. Height means nothing. They have about 20x more buildings and hundreds of millions of dollars of more development than us.

I'd take Denver's downtown over ours. Height means nothing. They have about 20x more buildings and hundreds of millions of dollars of more development than us.

20 X, no, 5 or 6 X, yes.

Denver overbuilt it's downtown in the early 80's. I remember 12 high rises going up at once. I also remember that they had to lease for 50 cents a sq foot just to get people in them....at one time (late 80's) it was like a ghost town downtown.

20 X, no, 5 or 6 X, yes.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/164934_541027725943264_2069166254_n.jpg

Put 5 vertical lines spaced evenly against that picture.....like I said 5 or 6 X.

Really only about 2 1/2 to 3 times as many. Still a lot. But I think we're hitting a big construction phase in OKC. I'll bet in 10 years you would be amazed at what it looks like.

Really only about 2 1/2 to 3 times as many. Still a lot. But I think we're hitting a big construction phase in OKC. I'll bet in 10 years you would be amazed at what it looks like.

15 years*

Most things won't go up as quickly as Devon does, and hopefully more things are announced in 2017 - 2020 than are announced in 2013 - 2016.

ya, I too gasped when someone said Denver was midrise what OKC would consider highrise. I was like, YOU do know OKC has a tower taller than anything in Denver. ....

I used to work in the #2 tallest Denver tower back in the day on the 45th floor. Good times, but Bella is correct that leases back then were dirt cheap and it was clear Denver overbuilt. I personally don't think Denver has an attractive downtown anymore, it seems like a bunch of messy buildings now with no clear focus or architectural effort (as a skyline). But sure, OKC could definitely take a few Denver towers to enlarge our CBD.

I think the most noticeable thing will be when Deep Deuce, Bricktown, Automobile Alley, Midtown, etc, all start to connect with one another. Part of that will be the streetcar, but really as each establish their own identity, and then grow together, our entire perception of our downtown will change. At the moment we have a few neat little areas but they are separated from one another.

I will be in Denver for ten days in July. Will be doing all kinds of stuff besides downtown, even out of town. I will have plenty of photos and video to do. I may even be moving there but I've been saying that for at least five years.

Denver Vacation 2012 - Downtown Denver (June 24 2012) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157630471329652/)


http://vimeo.com/22867208

http://vimeo.com/22867208

ya, I too gasped when someone said Denver was midrise what OKC would consider highrise. I was like, YOU do know OKC has a tower taller than anything in Denver. ....

I used to work in the #2 tallest Denver tower back in the day on the 45th floor. Good times, but Bella is correct that leases back then were dirt cheap and it was clear Denver overbuilt. I personally don't think Denver has an attractive downtown anymore, it seems like a bunch of messy buildings now with no clear focus or architectural effort (as a skyline). But sure, OKC could definitely take a few Denver towers to enlarge our CBD.

Okay, by the facts then:

Oklahoma City has:

17 buildings taller than 252 feet:

Denver has:

32 buildings taller than 350 feet. (Their list stops at 350 feet)

To keep the list relative and since I don't feel like finding the rest of Denver's 250-350 foot tall buildings, we will use 350 feet:

Oklahoma City has:

6 buildings greater than 350 feet

Denver has:

32 buildings greater than 350 feet


A midrise in Denver would be a highrise for us. Just because we have one building taller than denver doesn't mean squat for relative building size.

Denver has 7 buildings taller than Chase tower.

Give it up catch22........... it's not 20 X...... more like 3 - 4 X.... LOL

Give it up catch22........... it's not 20 X...... more like 3 - 4 X.... LOL

My point remains the same, Denver has a much more expansive skyline. Regardless if it does not have a tower taller than us, it has much more mass. My point remains the same, a mid rise in Denver would be a high rise for us.

Definition of mid rise or high rise is commonly accepted and not a localized definition. Posting a new definition justification on a board doesn't change it, regardless of how stubborn or argumentative any poster may be.

Today's Sunday New York Times had a story on the front page about a boom in luxury towers in NY. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/nyregion/boom-in-luxury-towers-is-warping-new-york-real-estate-market.html Somebody mentioned just recently in this thread about how a tall skinny tower might be nice somewhere downtown. Check out this 84 story tower going up in NYC. They call it "slender".

"Intended to be the tallest residential building in the Western Hemisphere — a slender, 84-story tower on Park Avenue at 56th Street in Manhattan."

http://i.imgur.com/x5w7bWP.jpg

Yeah the Great Recession is really taking its toll on luxury high-rise condos...

I will be in Denver for ten days in July. Will be doing all kinds of stuff besides downtown, even out of town. I will have plenty of photos and video to do. I may even be moving there but I've been saying that for at least five years.

Denver Vacation 2012 - Downtown Denver (June 24 2012) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157630471329652/)


http://vimeo.com/22867208

Denver Trip - Downtown Denver (April 19 2011) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/22867208)

Hey Will - Have you discovered Vine yet? You should really utilize that to show off your video footage. It breaks each segment up into easily-digestible 7 second bits and you can start-stop in edgy ways. I think that you and that medium would be a perfect match (whereas I've personally taken more to instagram for showing off my daily city pics).

There is no doubt that downtown Denver is currently booming. According to DenverInfill, there were over 4,200 residential units under construction within 1.5 miles of downtown as of March 2013.

Downtown Denver Residential Boom: March 2013 Update « DenverInfill Blog (http://denverinfill.com/blog/2013/03/downtown-denver-residential-boom-march-2013-update.html)

Driving around downtown, you will see at least 10 construction cranes. Construction in the Union Station area is impressive.

There is no doubt that downtown Denver is currently booming. According to DenverInfill, there were over 4,200 residential units under construction within 1.5 miles of downtown as of March 2013.

Downtown Denver Residential Boom: March 2013 Update « DenverInfill Blog (http://denverinfill.com/blog/2013/03/downtown-denver-residential-boom-march-2013-update.html)

Driving around downtown, you will see at least 10 construction cranes. Construction in the Union Station area is impressive.

Exactly. Development in downtown OKC pales in comparison to what is happening in Denver. I've never seen so much construction before. Every corner it seems has a construction site. big projects too. Makes our Holiday Inn Express seem pretty amateur.

Exactly. Development in downtown OKC pales in comparison to what is happening in Denver. I've never seen so much construction before. Every corner it seems has a construction site. big projects too. Makes our Holiday Inn Express seem pretty amateur.

Aren't we comparing apples and oranges though? Wouldn't Denver be expected to have a lot more activity?

The 2011 estimated population of Denver was 619,968 which ranks it as the 23rd most populous U.S. city.[12] The 10-county Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO Metropolitan Statistical Area had an estimated 2011 population of 2,599,504 and ranked as the 21st most populous U.S. metropolitan statistical area.[13] The 12-county Denver-Aurora-Boulder Combined Statistical Area had an estimated 2011 population of 3,157,520, which ranks as the 16th most populous U.S. metropolitan area.[14] Denver is the center and the most populous city of the Front Range Urban Corridor, an oblong urban region stretching across 18 counties in two states with an estimated 2011 population of 4,423,936.[9] Denver is the most populous city within a 500-mile (800 km) radius and the second most populous city in the Mountain West and the Southwestern United States after Phoenix, Arizona.
from Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver)

There's a common notion on this website that OKC is the only city with rapid downtown growth. Just correctly pointing out that we are not the only ones with explosive downtown growth, and to not take it for granted either.

There's a common notion on this website that OKC is the only city with rapid downtown growth. Just correctly pointing out that we are not the only ones with explosive downtown growth, and to not take it for granted either.

Agreed. OKC's downtown growth is actually small potatoes compared to places like Austin, Nashville, and Charlotte. The trend right now is downtown revitalization and its happening nationwide. It's a great thing OKC is getting the growth and revitalization it is.

not at all catch, we know other cities are developing as well. I just chimed in at your notion that a OKC would call a Denver midrise a highrise; I completely disagree with that as OKC has midrises and highrises that are true and the same as in Denver or anywhere else. I also pointed out to you that if you DID want to make that claim, said city should at least have a tower(s) that is taller than in OKC (like you probably could make the claim for Chicago, NY, etc); Denver doesn't have anything as tall as OKC and then you became defensive and pushy about their Denver's density.

The point is, we all know other cities have development (and surely cities larger than OKC likely would); but this thread is about OKC development and you can't fault people here being excited about OKC's downtown skyline and its renaissance.

This is the week of the rumored announcement...

It brings a smile to my face.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GZn6EnFPFzc/TGCBiTuoBhI/AAAAAAAAAFc/oIsVIH_4N7s/s1600/SheldonCreepySmile.jpg

Though I went to Deep Deuce this weekend and had a chance to really appreciate the growth that is going on in that neighborhood. And that kind of development has a larger impact on the day to day life of more people than just another skyscraper. If we can promote the growth of urban communities like that, it will really help establish OKC's identity as more than a commuter city.

I think what Catch22 is saying is that a 600' tower in OKC would be a dominant feature on the skyline. In Denver it wouldn't rise out of the urban fabric.

I think what Catch22 is saying is that a 600' tower in OKC would be a dominant feature on the skyline. In Denver it wouldn't rise out of the urban fabric.

Precisely what I was getting at.

I think what Catch22 is saying is that a 600' tower in OKC would be a dominant feature on the skyline. In Denver it wouldn't rise out of the urban fabric.There are not that many over 600 in Denver, the 3 tallest are right around the 700 mark. After that their newest tops 600 but the roof is way shorter, it just has a spire. The majority of Denvers building are little different than OKC's.

If the new mystery tower tops 720, then it's easy to say that our last 2 towers will dominate everything in Denver at this time.

I'd take Denver's downtown over ours. Height means nothing.

There is a lot of truth to that. It's much more important to do it right, than to do it tall. Height can be good from a density stand point, which can greatly increase demand for services in a smaller area, resulting in good urban infill. However, when no consideration is paid to the urban layout, the benefits of the density a tall building creates can be drastically marginalized.

I was in Dallas last week and I think the victory park area is a good example of how taller doesn't necessarily make for a great urban experience. It's definitely a cool area with some nice high rise residential and hotels. However, despite the number of 20+ story high buildings, it hasn't really realized the benefits of a typical urban area and is less walkable than it should be given the density. There seemed to be relatively little foot traffic and while it has some restaurants and services, they were fairly spread out. By contrast North Bishop street is mostly one story shops and restaurants, but had a ton of foot traffic and a much more urban feel.

Even in Denver, the reasons to hang out or live in downtown are usually dense areas of shorter structures like in LoDo. Lots of downtown areas have several tall buildings, but it wasn't until the 90s when many cities began revitalizing downtown neighborhoods surrounding their CBDs and financial districts, often compromised of smaller structures, did they see a true resurgence in downtown activity and occupancy.

I'm not saying that I don't want some cool new skyscrapers, but, in most cases, they are not the key to successful urban areas. Many major cities, including Denver, know all too well that you can have lots of tall buildings and still have a dead urban district. On the flip side, many successful and lively urban districts don't have a single building over 60' tall. Tall structures can obviously be done in a very urban way, but they are in no way the defining element of successful urban development. In fact, there is more evidence showing that height is irrelevant to the end.

Though I went to Deep Deuce this weekend and had a chance to really appreciate the growth that is going on in that neighborhood. And that kind of development has a larger impact on the day to day life of more people than just another skyscraper. If we can promote the growth of urban communities like that, it will really help establish OKC's identity as more than a commuter city.

I think hoyasooner makes a very poignant observation above. We're all excited about the Mystery Tower, but the above really is true. It seems like much of the discussion has become, at least to me, juvenile. The old mine is bigger than yours playground talk. We're talking about buildings. The development of the urban neighborhoods are far more important than another skyscraper. I'm excited too, but I just think hoyasooner's point should make us stop and really think about what's important. We shouldn't be disappointed if there's only one tower and not two or three and be upset at how tall they are or are not. A vibrant urban neighborhood downtown, or two or three, would say much more about our city in real life than another skyscraper. Thanks for reminding us, hoya.

I think hoyasooner makes a very poignant observation above. We're all excited about the Mystery Tower, but the above really is true. It seems like much of the discussion has become, at least to me, juvenile. The old mine is bigger than yours playground talk. We're talking about buildings. The development of the urban neighborhoods are far more important than another skyscraper. I'm excited too, but I just think hoyasooner's point should make us stop and really think about what's important. We shouldn't be disappointed if there's only one tower and not two or three and be upset at how tall they are or are not. A vibrant urban neighborhood downtown, or two or three, would say much more about our city in real life than another skyscraper. Thanks for reminding us, hoya.

Hey, I want both !!! lol

Hey, I want both !!! lol

+1, haha.

I think hoyasooner makes a very poignant observation above. We're all excited about the Mystery Tower, but the above really is true. It seems like much of the discussion has become, at least to me, juvenile. The old mine is bigger than yours playground talk. We're talking about buildings. The development of the urban neighborhoods are far more important than another skyscraper. I'm excited too, but I just think hoyasooner's point should make us stop and really think about what's important. We shouldn't be disappointed if there's only one tower and not two or three and be upset at how tall they are or are not. A vibrant urban neighborhood downtown, or two or three, would say much more about our city in real life than another skyscraper. Thanks for reminding us, hoya.

Thanks. :)

It was the first time I'd been to Deep Deuce on a Saturday afternoon. Usually I just drive through it on the way home, admire new construction, and that's it. This time I stopped at Native Roots just to check it out. It was fairly busy, and the hippie guy behind the counter was very friendly. It was a much different envirnoment than my local grocery store, with the variety of people who were coming in and out and all the activity on the street. I was quite impressed. And they have some of the best bacon I've ever eaten.

Maybe this is too soon...but assuming there was going to be an announcement this week, do you think the weather events of the week will cause the announcement to be delayed? Praying for all those affected.

Aren't we comparing apples and oranges though? Wouldn't Denver be expected to have a lot more activity?

The 2011 estimated population of Denver was 619,968 which ranks it as the 23rd most populous U.S. city.[12] The 10-county Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO Metropolitan Statistical Area had an estimated 2011 population of 2,599,504 and ranked as the 21st most populous U.S. metropolitan statistical area.[13] The 12-county Denver-Aurora-Boulder Combined Statistical Area had an estimated 2011 population of 3,157,520, which ranks as the 16th most populous U.S. metropolitan area.[14] Denver is the center and the most populous city of the Front Range Urban Corridor, an oblong urban region stretching across 18 counties in two states with an estimated 2011 population of 4,423,936.[9] Denver is the most populous city within a 500-mile (800 km) radius and the second most populous city in the Mountain West and the Southwestern United States after Phoenix, Arizona.
from Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver)

We also know that OKC's downtown boom is being greatly hindered by A, uncertainty, and B, wrongheaded decisions. IF we can make smarter, more strategic plans AND once the uncertainty of huge pending projects is lifted, I would expect us to be within a reasonable scale of that.

A skyline like the Big D isn't going to spring up overnight. But people like bchris need to view our downtown boom within the context of our recent history. There are still so many moving parts. Denver has one of the nation's most comprehensive LRT systems. We are still fighting to ensure that our first phase of streetcar actually gets done.

If you want to see Denver-type downtown development, you need to get behind the streetcar right now. It's as simple as that, and that's the difference that we can make together.

Very much agree with Spartan in his observation of downtown. I explain this to anyone who I show around downtown.

For okcpulse and I to agree on something, that must mean we are on to something ;P

With the way trends are goin... I wouldn't be surprised if we started seeing some midrise towers in Midtown in the late teens. There's so many spots available where Downtown ends and Midtown begins.

The thing about the streetcar, and regional rail, is that it changes the economics because parking doesn't have to be provided. It isn't just "stealing" developments from the suburbs, it fundamentally changes the rules.

It'd be cool if they announced something. I need a little pick me up this week.

My source says some kind of announcement around the first of July.

My source says some kind of announcement around the first of July.

And it is stretched out further... On July 7th we'll hear October 3rd. ;)

I asked my source again today and she said she has heard nothing from her husband..... all she knows is they were to hear some details of the merger around the first of July....you would think more info would be floating around.