I don't think Midland could be any further from France nor is it an urban model. Just to get that off my chest.

I doubt JTF has been to either Midland or France.

Spartan should know urban design at the regional level a little better - he has a college degree in a related field. Rover, I'm not surprised you don't know what I am talking about (although I suspect you are well aware I was not comparing Midland, TX and Chartes, FR culturally, surrounding land use, natural beauty, or historically).

Urbanism occurs on 3 basic levels: the region, the neighborhood, and the block. My only point is that both places have well defined center and edges vs. places like OKC whose built environment slowly transitions from rural to high density over miles. If I asked 10 people to start at Reno and Robinson and walk east until they perceived they were out of an urban areas I would get 10 different answers (and they would be miles apart). If I asked the same 10 people to go to Midland and do the same thing all 10 answers would most likely be the exact same spot.

I don't always agree with everything JTF says, but he's got a real point here. I live out in MWC, and as I was driving in to work today, I paid attention to all the empty land. I went down NE 10th from Air Depot, and on one side of the street there's nothing but fields for well over a mile. On the other side of the street, there's nothing but fields for a half mile. There are a lot of places like that in the metro, large chunks of undeveloped or sparsely developed land. You'll think you're starting to reach the country, and then you come across a big shopping center.

This is not the type of development we should be supporting. Now there's nothing magical about going from farmland to skyscraper in 2.5 miles, but denser development is more economical. The "Bridge to Nowhere" in Alaska was supposed to cost $400 million to reach an island of 50 people. But how many extra miles of road are we maintaining to reach a very spread out population?

Spartan should know urban design at the regional level a little better - he has a college degree in a related field. Rover, I'm not surprised you don't know what I am talking about (although I suspect you are well aware I was not comparing Midland, TX and Chartes, FR culturally, surrounding land use, natural beauty, or historically).

Urbanism occurs on 3 basic levels: the region, the neighborhood, and the block. My only point is that both places have well defined center and edges vs. places like OKC whose built environment slowly transitions from rural to high density over miles. If I asked 10 people to start at Reno and Robinson and walk east until they perceived they were out of an urban areas I would get 10 different answers (and they would be miles apart). If I asked the same 10 people to go to Midland and do the same thing all 10 answers would most likely be the exact same spot.

I know what you are saying, but I have spent time in Midland and it isn't as clear as the medieval cities of France. Midland has a definite business center devoid of mixed uses and is surrounded by suburban style neighborhoods. Because of the major oil companies it has taller buildings downtown than would normally be found in a small city of its size. And, most of the people work for the oil companies downtown so there is less of a distributed work force. Odessa is more of their "suburb" in that those jobs reside there. It goes against your mantra of a diversified urban area. Its population does not look like the those towns in France nor does its development. I have spent a lot of time in both and find little in common. If you had spent time in both you would know what I am talking about.

I don't always agree with everything JTF says, but he's got a real point here.

Wait...JTF's a dude?

Wait...JTF's a dude?

JTF's been a dude ever since I started lurking on here, which he was "Kerry" back then before he created a new account.

Yea, JTF is a real cool guy, he knows what he is talking about when it comes to urbanism discussions.

Yea, JTF is a real cool guy, he knows what he is talking about when it comes to urbanism discussions.

Yes he does.

This is my first ever post here on OKCTALK. I'm a big fan of this site and have been following it over the past three years. I heard something interesting the other today from my grandma who lives in The Montgomery in downtown OKC regarding the "Mystery Tower." She told me that one of the managers here told her that Devon is the company who is building a new tower on the Stage Center site. I got excited when she told me this thinking Devon had made an announcement but when I searched on Internet and here at OKCTALK, I found nothing. Have any of you heard anything about this? I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share. This has been driving me crazy! Maybe the manager/owner here at The Montgomery knows something that we haven't heard yet.

This is my first ever post here on OKCTALK. I'm a big fan of this site and have been following it over the past three years. I heard something interesting the other today from my grandma who lives in The Montgomery in downtown OKC regarding the "Mystery Tower." She told me that one of the managers here told her that Devon is the company who is building a new tower on the Stage Center site. I got excited when she told me this thinking Devon had made an announcement but when I searched on Internet and here at OKCTALK, I found nothing. Have any of you heard anything about this? I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share. This has been driving me crazy! Maybe the manager/owner here at The Montgomery knows something that we haven't heard yet.

Dick Tannenbaum owns the Montgomery. He certainly runs in those circles and could possibly know something. I doubt that he would let it out though.

never underestimate the capabilities or curiosity of a Nana.

:wink:

never underestimate the capabilities or curiosity of a Nana.

:wink:

And Dick is a talker. Get him going and he won't shut up. :)

The rumor has always been that Devon would build on the Preftakes block, which is just North of the Stage Center.......

We'll know eventually.

And Dick is a talker. Get him going and he won't shut up. :)

Yes, on second thought I guess you are right. He definately says what is on his mind.

I talked with her more about it today and she told me that the manager told her that the new tower is going to be 40 stories. I thought that was strange as well because she gave me an exact story count so obviously this manager heard that as well from somebody else...maybe Dick Tannenbaum? I don't know. I'm assuming that Dick and the manager know each other and possibly could have had a discussion about this. It's just strange because why else would this manager be going around randomly telling residents who is building on the Stage Center site and even throwing exact story counts out there. Interesting. I'll talk with her more about it and I'll even talk to the manager myself next time I go down there for a visit.

JTF's been a dude ever since I started lurking on here, which he was "Kerry" back then before he created a new account.

I remember Kerry from when I used to come here.

Spartan should know urban design at the regional level a little better - he has a college degree in a related field. Rover, I'm not surprised you don't know what I am talking about (although I suspect you are well aware I was not comparing Midland, TX and Chartes, FR culturally, surrounding land use, natural beauty, or historically).

Urbanism occurs on 3 basic levels: the region, the neighborhood, and the block. My only point is that both places have well defined center and edges vs. places like OKC whose built environment slowly transitions from rural to high density over miles. If I asked 10 people to start at Reno and Robinson and walk east until they perceived they were out of an urban areas I would get 10 different answers (and they would be miles apart). If I asked the same 10 people to go to Midland and do the same thing all 10 answers would most likely be the exact same spot.

Well I think walking east they'd run into 235. But the keys that using Midland as an example fails to acknowledge are mixed uses and the new buzzword of place-making (however sense of place is an older, more established buzzword). Those are things you can't get by looking at stats or google street view. Midland doesn't even seem very pleasant from street view...

Besides, I feel obligated to scoff at anything west of OKC not named Denver.

Well I think walking east they'd run into 235. But the keys that using Midland as an example fails to acknowledge are mixed uses and the new buzzword of place-making (however sense of place is an older, more established buzzword). Those are things you can't get by looking at stats or google street view. Midland doesn't even seem very pleasant from street view...

Besides, I feel obligated to scoff at anything west of OKC not named Denver.

That is why I specifically referred to the well-defined edge and center of Midland, and nothing else. Catch22 posted some pictures in the Future Highway or Interstate thread that illustrates the point quite well. It is kind of weird how all of these different threads on multiple subjects are also all interconnected (it is like a daytime soap).

Besides, I feel obligated to scoff at anything west of OKC not named Denver.

Spartan, surely you don't have anything against San Francisco. :(

From todays chat -

Steve 'still not worried'.

Good, bc I was starting to.


That is why I specifically referred to the well-defined edge and center of Midland, and nothing else. Catch22 posted some pictures in the Future Highway or Interstate thread that illustrates the point quite well. It is kind of weird how all of these different threads on multiple subjects are also all interconnected (it is like a daytime soap).

Ah, poignant comparison.

Steve said he still thinks there will be a Mystery tower, a CC hotel tower, and a high-rise apartment tower of some sort. Beyond that its all up in the air due to the situation at Sandridge.

Steve said he still thinks there will be a Mystery tower, a CC hotel tower, and a high-rise apartment tower of some sort. Beyond that its all up in the air due to the situation at Sandridge.

uhhh, that's new to this thread...

uhhh, that's new to this thread...

Yep. Definitely the first I've heard of that & I'm usually all over the downtown stuff. Unless he is referring to a project already known about & he just used a new term for it.

He said CBD housing not "high rise apt tower"

He said CBD housing not "high rise apt tower"

He did say CBD housing, not high-rise apt's. I went through & read the transcript earlier. I still hope downtown OKC gets a high-rise apt building before its all said & done.

Out of curiosity, define "High-rise Residential" for me in OKC terms.

Well, in my fair & honest opinion, one needs not look any further than 333 NW 5th Street -- The Regency.

That's have I have in mind too. Was curious what others thought. Wasn't sure if that was borderline mid-rise.

I suppose it depends on the person, but in OKC terms I would call it a high-rise.

He did say CBD housing, not high-rise apt's. I went through & read the transcript earlier. I still hope downtown OKC gets a high-rise apt building before its all said & done.

But didn't he say it in the context of tower developement? I'm pretty sure he was talking about Rick Dowell's oft mentioned but never verfied midrise.

That's have I have in mind too. Was curious what others thought. Wasn't sure if that was borderline mid-rise.

For me I would say it depends on its relationship to the immediate surrounding urban fabric. Something the might be a mid-rise in Deep Deuce would only be a low rise downtown and 20 story downtown mid-rise would be a high-rise in Bricktown.

Well, in my fair & honest opinion, one needs not look any further than 333 NW 5th Street -- The Regency.

That is probably about the scale that is needed. It would be really nice to get one (or more) of these towers in OKC. Other cities, some much smaller than OKC were getting them like crazy in the 2000s but OKC got left out of that boom.

But didn't he say it in the context of tower developement? I'm pretty sure he was talking about Rick Dowell's oft mentioned but never verfied midrise.

He may have been. Rick Dowell was mentioned today so his "project" may be the "mystery residential project". I don't feel like going back & reading it right now, otherwise I would to verify it.

For me I would say it depends on its relationship to the immediate surrounding urban fabric. Something the might be a mid-rise in Deep Deuce would only be a low rise downtown and 20 story downtown mid-rise would be a high-rise in Bricktown.

I would pretty much agree that context is always important. Generally though, 1-4 Stick built is a low rise. 4-10 or 12 floors generally are referred to as mid-rise, and over 10-12 is high rise. With taller floor to floor heights as is more common these days, high rise starts more at the 10 floor level rather than 12 it used to be.

Dowel residential tower in not in the CBD

It is if he uses the former office tower he's renovating.

Totally off topic but...

http://i.imgur.com/trYvz5j.jpg

Woah! (The one on the left) Nuh Uh....

This will increase your pulse rate.

NHvg5wrrJp8

Totally off topic but...

http://i.imgur.com/trYvz5j.jpg

What exactly is the topic? Lol

http://youtu.be/6BJmC9u3vwQ

Pete, can you please share with these folks how real world, big time real estate transactions take place, and why sometimes involved parties might want to downplay whether a deal is in play? I've got a book manuscript to get finished!

OK, I have $600 million to spend for a new high-rise, let's negotiate.



:p:cool:

Steve, is one of the holdups for the tower announcement (especially an out of state company) the state income tax rate going below 5%? This thread has been going for almost 15 months. I wondered last year if that was an issue when the state legislature would not cut the income tax rate to below 5 percent. If this is one of the issues, then the leadership announced today that agreements have been reached for a tax cut deal, workers compensation reform, and long term infrastructure planning. The agreement is to lower the top income tax rate from 5.25 percent to 5.0 percent on January 1, 2015 and to lower the top income tax rate from 5.0 percent to 4.85 percent on January 1, 2016. The bill will also reserve $60 million in FY 2014 and an additional $60 million in FY 2015 for Capitol repars.

PS I have been a member for 3 and a half years, but this is my first post. Pete, thank you, thank you, thank you a million times over for this forum.

Steve, is one of the holdups for the tower announcement (especially an out of state company) the state income tax rate going below 5%? This thread has been going for almost 15 months. I wondered last year if that was an issue when the state legislature would not cut the income tax rate to below 5 percent. If this is one of the issues, then the leadership announced today that agreements have been reached for a tax cut deal, workers compensation reform, and long term infrastructure planning. The agreement is to lower the top income tax rate from 5.25 percent to 5.0 percent on January 1, 2015 and to lower the top income tax rate from 5.0 percent to 4.85 percent on January 1, 2016. The bill will also reserve $60 million in FY 2014 and an additional $60 million in FY 2015 for Capitol repars.

PS I have been a member for 3 and a half years, but this is my first post. Pete, thank you, thank you, thank you a million times over for this forum.

I am not Steve (as far as either of us can tell), but I will say that cutting the state income tax by 0.25% will have little to no effect on business relocation. Corporations move sometimes because of large, specific tax breaks tailored to them. Sometimes they move because of the quality of life and overall cost of living for their employees. Sometimes they move for industry-specific reasons. But despite all the bluster out of the state capital, a miniscule change in individual income tax is not going to make or break anything.

Steve, is one of the holdups for the tower announcement (especially an out of state company) the state income tax rate going below 5%? This thread has been going for almost 15 months. I wondered last year if that was an issue when the state legislature would not cut the income tax rate to below 5 percent. If this is one of the issues, then the leadership announced today that agreements have been reached for a tax cut deal, workers compensation reform, and long term infrastructure planning. The agreement is to lower the top income tax rate from 5.25 percent to 5.0 percent on January 1, 2015 and to lower the top income tax rate from 5.0 percent to 4.85 percent on January 1, 2016. The bill will also reserve $60 million in FY 2014 and an additional $60 million in FY 2015 for Capitol repars.

PS I have been a member for 3 and a half years, but this is my first post. Pete, thank you, thank you, thank you a million times over for this forum.

No, to be honest, I've yet to see this mentioned as an issue in any economic development project I've ever tracked. It's quite the talking point for legislators and talk radio, however. To be honest, quality of life is a far bigger issue with those I've talked to over the years (you folks can chew on this for a bit and extrapolate what this all could mean in years to come)

No, to be honest, I've yet to see this mentioned as an issue in any economic development project I've ever tracked. It's quite the talking point for legislators and talk radio, however. To be honest, quality of life is a far bigger issue with those I've talked to over the years (you folks can chew on this for a bit and extrapolate what this all could mean in years to come)


It means that OKC better get an NFL team.....Get er done!

AquaDom

AquaDom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AquaDom)

Wonder if this would work in a highrise?

http://i.imgur.com/MwhPc67.jpg

It means that OKC better get an NFL team.....Get er done!...and better weather...oops.

That's one big fish bath. Thanks for sharing.

...and better weather...oops.

Might as well thrown in an ocean and a few mountains as well.
But where is this mystery tower that Steve said would be announced in 30 days?

Might as well thrown in an ocean and a few mountains as well.
But where is this mystery tower that Steve said would be announced in 30 days?

Due to the complexity of the transactions with all parties involved, IIRC, he's postponed any annoucements until more concrete facts transpire. I'll suggest maybe we'll know more in June....?

Spoke to a woman last night whose husband is a 27 year employee of Enogex in their corporate office. I asked her if he knew anything about the merger with CNP. She said it was pure speculation on his part, but due to the infrastructure and logistics of the facilities, that he felt the new HQ would be located here. Pure speculation on his part, but what was interesting is that they are supposed to have some kind of announcement about the merger in July.

...they are supposed to have some kind of announcement about the merger in July.

I'm suppose to go on vacation to Arizona last weekend of July...over/under on tower announcement before or after my vacation? I'll say after...

Rise of The Super Towers: The Next Big Thing In Luxury Housing - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/04/30/rise-of-the-super-towers-the-next-big-thing-in-luxury-housing/?utm_campaign=forbesfbsf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social)

Rise of The Super Towers: The Next Big Thing In Luxury Housing - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/04/30/rise-of-the-super-towers-the-next-big-thing-in-luxury-housing/?utm_campaign=forbesfbsf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social)

For whatever reason, I love how the Museum Tower in Dallas ended up looking. I really wish we had something like that as a housing option for downtown OKC. I'd move in a heartbeat.

Even Austin has a 50 story residential tower.

For whatever reason, I love how the Museum Tower in Dallas ended up looking. I really wish we had something like that as a housing option for downtown OKC. I'd move in a heartbeat.

No kidding. That's a great building in a perfect location for art and theatre lovers. I love it.

OKC pretty much missed the mid/high-rise housing boom in the mid-2000s. Even Little Rock has decent sized residential towers constructed recently for its standards. Nothing too extravagant, but more than has been constructed in OKC. It would be nice if this city can get a residential tower or two before its all said and done.

Austin doesn't surprise me because it's pretty much America's favorite city right now.

OKC pretty much missed the mid/high-rise housing boom in the mid-2000s. Even Little Rock has decent sized residential towers constructed recently for its standards. Nothing too extravagant, but more than has been constructed in OKC. It would be nice if this city can get a residential tower or two before its all said and done.

Austin doesn't surprise me because it's pretty much America's favorite city right now.

I agree about Austin. It IS America's favorite city right now, until people visit and have to drive around town. Worst transportation infrastructure I've ever seen, but Austin was a town that really never planned on growing up to be a big city. Regardless, I love the place.

I agree about Austin. It IS America's favorite city right now, until people visit and have to drive around town. Worst transportation infrastructure I've ever seen, but Austin was a town that really never planned on growing up to be a big city. Regardless, I love the place.

I was in Austin a few weeks ago. Great place. OKC could get there with some good urban planning and more high paying jobs. However, the traffic was HORRIBLE! It took me over an hour to crawl six miles into downtown southbound on I-35. Traffic was even worse going north from downtown to Round Rock.

Even Austin has a 50 story residential tower.Austin's population is around 2.3 million as well. But, I think OKC could support of 50 story res tower