North Korea nukes can only make it to the west coast. I'd be more concerned with foreign or domestic terrorism with a dirty bomb (biological or nuclear being detonated deep within the US borders). I think fallout from the west coast would highly dissipate as it makes its way east. To be discovered, though...

I don't think the previous poster was seriously worried about North Korea nukes in relation to a possible tower project.

I don't think the previous poster was seriously worried about North Korea nukes in relation to a possible tower project.

Correct, I'd be more concerned over some kind of bank failure financial crisis than N. Korea, or even the bottom falling out of energy prices for that matter.

North Korea nukes can only make it to the west coast. I'd be more concerned with foreign or domestic terrorism with a dirty bomb (biological or nuclear being detonated deep within the US borders). I think fallout from the west coast would highly dissipate as it makes its way east. To be discovered, though...

there is also a lot of belief that the DPRK doesn't even have any missiles that could reach Hawaii, let alone the west coast

Very cool animation of the proposed tower in Midland:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75mYDI7-lw

there is also a lot of belief that the DPRK doesn't even have any missiles that could reach Hawaii, let alone the west coast

That's fine by me :)

Nice looking development - I like the exoskeleton and multi floor atrium like levels a lot. It sure would look nice at Stage Center.....

Yeah I hope our next tower is exoskeleton style architecture, I love this one, the NYT and others like it.

It's interesting to me that a city of 111,000 (270,000 MSA) residents is building a 53 story SPEC building 870 feet tall.

It's interesting to me that a city of 111,000 (270,000 MSA) residents is building a 53 story SPEC building 870 feet tall.

They have a lot of large energy companies moving their operations (not headquarters) there because that is where they are working. I met with the Midland Texas Chamber of Commerce in January and they told me that Shell is opening a pretty good sized operation there.

Friday Night Lights (the movie/television show on NBC) was/is based out of the Midland/Odessa area. Tell us so how many OKC based shows are on TV... All I say is build the crap and let us enjoy a laugh at M/O and how off kilter their skyline is compared to OKC. At least we can fill the gap. They'll have to add 7 towers to fill their gap, where we'll need only 1 or 2. For the theory of future headquarters building and the productivity of new digs being built since the recession, I'll take odds on OKC filling the gap any day over M/O, lol...

Friday Night Lights (the movie/television show on NBC) was/is based out of the Midland/Odessa area. Tell us so how many OKC based shows are on TV...

Saving Grace (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_Grace_(TV_series))

I didn't watch it, but I don't watch Friday Night Lights either.

Yeah, I don't have cable so I forgot about that one...lol.

Been to Midland. Been to Odessa. Would take quite a bit to ever get me to return. Luck to the building folks all the same.

That thing really looks out of place there. They need to stop right now and think about building that in OKC. Seriously,who wants to live in Midland Tx? Most people there are looking for a way out.

Very cool animation of the proposed tower in Midland:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75mYDI7-lw

Nice song. 'The Killers' want their song back.

I think we can show class and be happy for other cities who are getting skyscrapers. OKC will get more and more because it is bigger and more important than Midland, so why be jealous of them?

Large skyscrapers could very well be the trend going forward, and if so that speaks volumes for OKC's skyline ambitions. ....

That thing really looks out of place there. They need to stop right now and think about building that in OKC. Seriously,who wants to live in Midland Tx? Most people there are looking for a way out.

Having lived in many different cities, a lot of people from elsewhere say the same thing about OKC. Many of them were saying that back when the Devon Tower was announced and will say it again when the new tower is announced.

Midland is a large town that has always had an impressive skyline for its size. Think about it, Midland is a peer to Amarillo or Fort Smith, yet its skyline would have you believe its much more important than that.

It IS much more important than Amarillo or Ft. smith. It is about the size of Lawton but has wealth and influence WAY beyond its size. It actually is a pretty nice city. Odessa, not so much.

I think we can show class and be happy for other cities who are getting skyscrapers. OKC will get more and more because it is bigger and more important than Midland, so why be jealous of them?

Large skyscrapers could very well be the trend going forward, and if so that speaks volumes for OKC's skyline ambitions. ....

For me personally, I have nothing agant the city of Midland or its people. My comments are based 100% of the design of the proposal. I don't care where it is built, bad urban design is still bad urban design. This project claims to be an effort to revitalize downtown Midland. It won't and most likely will make it worse with large setbacks, keeps a super block, 2,000 cars added to the streets around it, enough office space to put the rest of the downtown property owners out of business, out of scale with the buildings around it, etc...

On the plus side, what it is replacing is just as bad.

I wonder what the chances would be that OKC offering them incentives or something to try and lure them here. . .

Oil companies flock there because it is the heart of the Permian Basin reserves. Incentives aren't why they move there, or away. Profit is their incentive.

crickets...... which could be good.

crickets...... which could be good.

What's this? A new clue?

Aha! Cricket Wireless is building a new tower in downtown OKC!!!!

...just kidding...

I am as excited about the prospect of a large new tower at the SG cite as anyone, but I heard some distressing news today. Today Beffort was speaking to the current Leadership OKC class and was asked about the "mystery tower." He said there were discussions concrning that site, but the deal did not develop. He believes a new office building (not tower) will be built somewhere downtown over the next few years, but there are no specific plans at the moment. This is second hand information from a person who attended the discussion today, so please don't shoot the messenger. Beffort may not be in the know, or was being intentionally effasive, but his comments (if accurately reported to me) don't seem to match up with what has been previously written about the subject. I hope my friend and/or Beffort are wrong.

Been to Midland. Been to Odessa. Would take quite a bit to ever get me to return. Luck to the building folks all the same.

Yeah, in case they need it. Downtown Midland looks pretty substantial for a city its size.

Yeah, in case they need it. Downtown Midland looks pretty substantial for a city its size.

Yes, complete with a herd of cattle.

Yeah, in case they need it. Downtown Midland looks pretty substantial for a city its size.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/other-urban-development/3635d1365743215t-mystery-tower-speculation-news-ideas-post-here-downtownmidland.jpg

That is how cities should be settled - with well defined centers and edges. They should be a destination you arrive at, not something you slowly ease into over miles and miles. Well defined edges and centers is what seperates US cities from the pretty much the rest of the world. It reminds me of this picture of Chartres, FR.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Chartres_1987.jpg/270px-Chartres_1987.jpg

Very cool animation of the proposed tower in Midland:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H75mYDI7-lw

Wow, if Midland can do it? Why can't we build a mixed use tower even taller? They may have the Permian Oil, but we have Mississippian and other plays nearby that are emerging. Maybe it could be on top of the convention center hotel. Have the offices like theirs on top. That could be the extra $50 million they need to build the convention center hotel. They could have the first 20 or 30 floors be convention center hotel 10-15 floors of residential and then 20-30 floors of office space. Then restaurants/bars/pool/workout facilities on the first floor. Their 53 story tower is quoted at being $350 Million.

I hope our convention center hotel is a similar concept to the Ft Worth Omni - it has several floor of condos on top of the hotel. Combining the two could make both easier to attain - it should reduce the cost and risk for the condos and possibly reduce overall cost for the CC hotel. It might be a way to get our first residential high rise in OKC.....

Wow, if Midland can do it? Why can't we build a mixed use tower even taller? They may have the Permian Oil, but we have Mississippian and other plays nearby that are emerging. Maybe it could be on top of the convention center hotel. Have the offices like theirs on top. That could be the extra $50 million they need to build the convention center hotel. They could have the first 20 or 30 floors be convention center hotel 10-15 floors of residential and then 20-30 floors of office space. Then restaurants/bars/pool/workout facilities on the first floor. Their 53 story tower is quoted at being $350 Million.

This thing is not getting built...sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I was in Midland just last year and there are large office buildings that are completely abandoned. It could get built in a smaller form, but dumping 1 million square feet of spec office space on a city the size of Norman? Not gonna happen. At least with the Devon Tower, a company wrote a check for it and had a concrete plan to use the all the space. Last I've heard they've only gotten about 20 percent of space with this accounted for, and negotiations were "ongoing" (a/k/a no leases have been signed).

Frankly, as someone who works in the oil and gas industry, stuff like this scares me. Once you start hitting the level of irrational exuberance like this, it usually means things are peaking.

This thing is not getting built...sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I was in Midland just last year and there are large office buildings that are completely abandoned. It could get built in a smaller form, but dumping 1 million square feet of spec office space on a city the size of Norman? Not gonna happen. At least with the Devon Tower, a company wrote a check for it and had a concrete plan to use the all the space. Last I've heard they've only gotten about 20 percent of space with this accounted for, and negotiations were "ongoing" (a/k/a no leases have been signed).

Frankly, as someone who works in the oil and gas industry, stuff like this scares me. Once you start hitting the level of irrational exuberance like this, it usually means things are peaking.

I definitely don't think it's peaking right now, at least I hope not because it's a really crappy peak. Things natural gas wise peaked in 2007 - 2008, unfortunately we were a little too good at finding it. The energy industry is cyclical though and I would expect things to get better as the natural gas market grows. I think the biggest danger to the industry is a global oil price crash due to economic issues in China and/or India. Many of the wells they're drilling around Midland would be uneconomic if the price of oil dropped below about $50 per bbl and only moderately economic between $60 and $80 per bbl. As long as the price of oil stays above $80 per bbl, the industry will be in decent shape. If the price of natural gas comes up, the industry will be in great shape.

As far as this building goes, I think it is a little ridiculous. At least the devon tower has a few 400- 500 foot buildings accompanying it in the skyline. The current tallest in Midland is around 330' tall and this building as currently proposed would be taller than Devon. Spliting in half would probably be a better idea if they are deadset on building something. Having said that, if they really want to build it, more power to them. Though the Devon Tower probably made more sense in OKC due to our population size and the fact that a single tenant was building it, people were saying some of the same things about it that are now being said about Midland's tower proposal.

Do you know if the buildings that are empty are class C space or something? I had heard that the empty building(s) in downtown midland were in a situation similar to First National here. I've also heard from contractors doing work for me down there that it is extremely difficult to find office and living space right now. Given that, I would assume something having to do with the condition of that building is preventing it from being redeveloped. Look at downtown OKC, given the demand for office space and downtown living, it makes no sense that First National hasn't been redeveloped, but a bad owner and the estimated cost to renovate it are the major roadblocks preventing it from happening.

Wow, if Midland can do it? Why can't we build a mixed use tower even taller? They may have the Permian Oil, but we have Mississippian and other plays nearby that are emerging.

The west Texas oil plays and their prospects make our combined prospects in Oklahoma look tiny.
I have been to Midland many times… The area oil prospects have changed a lot just in the past few months. They will have a lot more oil money that will last for many years. There oil prospect are so great that it’s hard for me to fully comprehend.

This thing is not getting built...sorry to burst everyone's bubble. I was in Midland just last year and there are large office buildings that are completely abandoned. It could get built in a smaller form, but dumping 1 million square feet of spec office space on a city the size of Norman? Not gonna happen. At least with the Devon Tower, a company wrote a check for it and had a concrete plan to use the all the space. Last I've heard they've only gotten about 20 percent of space with this accounted for, and negotiations were "ongoing" (a/k/a no leases have been signed).

Frankly, as someone who works in the oil and gas industry, stuff like this scares me. Once you start hitting the level of irrational exuberance like this, it usually means things are peaking.


I sure would not bet against this being built.

There are a lot of Oklahoma’s who have never understood west Texans, what they have and what they think.
Midland TX is a very affluent city….where a flashy living life style is still very common.
Midland TX has been in the top 10 wealthiest places in the USA by per capita income several times and in fact was ranked #1 at one time. Even if oil prices stay low for a period of time there is so much new and old oil in the entire area that many fortunes will be made and they will be able to survive until prices recover.
Ever see the movie Giant? That’s sort of what’s going on now, but bigger.

I was told just yesterday that over 200,000 new homes were planned or under construction in that area of west Texas.

Do you know if the buildings that are empty are class C space or something? I had heard that the empty building(s) in downtown midland were in a situation similar to First National here. I've also heard from contractors doing work for me down there that it is extremely difficult to find office and living space right now. Given that, I would assume something having to do with the condition of that building is preventing it from being redeveloped. Look at downtown OKC, given the demand for office space and downtown living, it makes no sense that First National hasn't been redeveloped, but a bad owner and the estimated cost to renovate it are the major roadblocks preventing it from happening.

Yes, they are largely unoccupied due to being in unusable condition i.e. First National Center. They are largely unusable due to hasty improvements that were made during the last boom in the 70's and now not practical for today's office needs. And while yes, office space is very tight, the type of rents that can be demanded in that market that size simply make remodeling stuff like this (or building an overly elaborate, massive office building) uneconomical. IIRC there are quite a few office parks on the NW side of Midland that seem to be rapidly expanding.


I sure would not bet against this being built.

There are a lot of Oklahoma’s who have never understood west Texans, what they have and what they think.
Midland TX is a very affluent city….where a flashy living life style is still very common.
Midland TX has been in the top 10 wealthiest places in the USA by per capita income several times and in fact was ranked #1 at one time. Even if oil prices stay low for a period of time there is so much new and old oil in the entire area that many fortunes will be made and they will be able to survive until prices recover.
Ever see the movie Giant? That’s sort of what’s going on now, but bigger.

I was told just yesterday that over 200,000 new homes were planned or under construction in that area of west Texas.

OU48, my dad was in the air force and my family did a 6 year "tour" of West Texas bases, so yes, I am quite aware of the brand of arrogance that dominates that area. Don't get me wrong, lots of nice people out there, but maybe a bit too prideful for their own good.

I actually saw where Midland Odessa has a very high per capita income. However, when looking at the most recent median household income list, Midland County was nowhere near the top 100. I don't want to throw cold water on them, but household income is a far better measure of what is going into people's pocket, whereas per capita income measures only general economic output. The fact that there is such a discrepancy between the 2 confirms my observations. There's lots of oil gushing out of that place, and plenty of high paid field workers, roustabouts, etc. but the white collar workers who are pulling down the big bucks are all probably still in Houston, OKC, Denver, etc. Which is the main reason I think they're going to have big problems filling this tower up. I mean, do you see companies relocating their white collar workers en masse to North Dakota? Quality of life and employee retention still do matter nowadays. I'm glad the leaders in OKC are starting to realize this.

I know people like to say, "its different this time," but the old rules still apply. For a place to have true prosperity, you need F500/F1000 headquarters, not just field offices, diversified employment base, mix of white collar and blue collar, educational opportunities, etc. No doubt you can make a lot of money NOW in Midland, but this stuff is fleeting. If you think they are building 200K homes out that way, I've got some pets.com stock and real estate in Vegas to sell you.

OU48, my dad was in the air force and my family did a 6 year "tour" of West Texas bases, so yes, I am quite aware of the brand of arrogance that dominates that area. Don't get me wrong, lots of nice people out there, but maybe a bit too prideful for their own good.

I actually saw where Midland Odessa has a very high per capita income. However, when looking at the most recent median household income list, Midland County was nowhere near the top 100. I don't want to throw cold water on them, but household income is a far better measure of what is going into people's pocket, whereas per capita income measures only general economic output. The fact that there is such a discrepancy between the 2 confirms my observations. There's lots of oil gushing out of that place, and plenty of high paid field workers, roustabouts, etc. but the white collar workers who are pulling down the big bucks are all probably still in Houston, OKC, Denver, etc. Which is the main reason I think they're going to have big problems filling this tower up. I mean, do you see companies relocating their white collar workers en masse to North Dakota? Quality of life and employee retention still do matter nowadays. I'm glad the leaders in OKC are starting to realize this.

I know people like to say, "its different this time," but the old rules still apply. For a place to have true prosperity, you need F500/F1000 headquarters, not just field offices, diversified employment base, mix of white collar and blue collar, educational opportunities, etc. No doubt you can make a lot of money NOW in Midland, but this stuff is fleeting. If you think they are building 200K homes out that way, I've got some pets.com stock and real estate in Vegas to sell you.

Fair enough.
However the Midland Odessa still has a good number of regional offices of all sizes of oil companies. There are a number of locally owned very prosperous O&G companies that any community would love to have. If I understand this new tower correctly besides being office space, it’s going to have apartments designed to attract young professionals that the area desperately needs. I’m sure you remember the surrounding land is butt ugly. They need to do something to set them self’s apart.
I would completely agree that there are lots of nice people but the brand of Texas arrogance is probably stronger in that part of Texas than anywhere else. My wife was born in Midland. I have frequently said .., you can take the Texans out of Texas but you can’t take the Texas out of the Texan. I find this to be the most true with west Texans.

I personally would not have any desire to live in Midland Odessa. West Texas including Lubbock and Amarillo, they can have it. It is too flat, treeless and gritty for my taste. Very blue collar in that area so I do not get the arrogance part for that area??? OKC is much more likely to get another skyscraper before Midland.

I am as excited about the prospect of a large new tower at the SG cite as anyone, but I heard some distressing news today. Today Beffort was speaking to the current Leadership OKC class and was asked about the "mystery tower." He said there were discussions concrning that site, but the deal did not develop. He believes a new office building (not tower) will be built somewhere downtown over the next few years, but there are no specific plans at the moment. This is second hand information from a person who attended the discussion today, so please don't shoot the messenger. Beffort may not be in the know, or was being intentionally effasive, but his comments (if accurately reported to me) don't seem to match up with what has been previously written about the subject. I hope my friend and/or Beffort are wrong.

Has no one heard anything about this or if this is true?

This would kinda match up with what was in the okc.biz article where Beffort said they were looking at plans but nothing firm. I think this dream is dead.

This would kinda match up with what was in the okc.biz article where Beffort said they were looking at plans but nothing firm. I think this dream is dead.

This is how I'm starting to feel about all of this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

Just like everyone earlier in this thread was jumping to conclusions that a tower (or 4) would definitely be built, I wouldn't jump to conclusions that one won't be built now. I don't have any inside information, but people are way too quick to run with one tidbit of information (And haven't we already learned that Beffort may not know everything?). Once Steve or Pete are confident there's nothing in the works then I'll be convinced. There seemed to be more evidence than just Beffort's statements...

Just like everyone earlier in this thread was jumping to conclusions that a tower (or 4) would definitely be built, I wouldn't jump to conclusions that one won't be built now. I don't have any inside information, but people are way too quick to run with one tidbit of information (And haven't we already learned that Beffort may not know everything?). Once Steve or Pete are confident there's nothing in the works then I'll be convinced. There seemed to be more evidence than just Beffort's statements...

This is what I'm gonna amount it to. Until Steve or Pete or someone who is in the know says the tower is no longer in the works, then I'll close this chapter of Oklahoma City's development.

This would kinda match up with what was in the okc.biz article where Beffort said they were looking at plans but nothing firm. I think this dream is dead.

Not dead.

Dying?

Not dying.

Not dying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM

Imaginary next post from OnlyOne:

Sick?

Imaginary next post from Steve:

Not sick.


Just thought I'd play along.
:)

Sometimes it's almost like an episode of Monday Mornings around here.
;)

Pete, can you please share with these folks how real world, big time real estate transactions take place, and why sometimes involved parties might want to downplay whether a deal is in play? I've got a book manuscript to get finished!

Pete, can you please share with these folks how real world, big time real estate transactions take place, and why sometimes involved parties might want to downplay whether a deal is in play? I've got a book manuscript to get finished!

With those words Steve..... back to the odds.


These are Mystery Tower odds....not necessarily Stage Center site.....and more than one tower of course!

OG&E 50%
OG&E/Centerpoint 30%
Devon MLP 25%
Some random company 25%
Phillips 66 10%
Continental 10%
Mixed use tower 10%

With those words Steve..... back to the odds.


These are Mystery Tower odds....not necessarily Stage Center site.....and more than one tower of course!

OG&E 50%
OG&E/Centerpoint 30%
Devon MLP 25%
Some random company 25%
Phillips 66 10%
Continental 10%
Mixed use tower 10%

FWIW, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy, etc., that John Richels is telling concerned employees that if Devon sets up an MLP, it would be a book-keeping exercise only, and that no one involved in the day-to-day would be able to tell the difference, i.e. Devon MLP =/= new tower.

FWIW, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy, etc., that John Richels is telling concerned employees that if Devon sets up an MLP, it would be a book-keeping exercise only, and that no one involved in the day-to-day would be able to tell the difference, i.e. Devon MLP =/= new tower.

DT, I talked to JR and the Devon MLP = more money for Devon = more people = new tower.....down the road, but if an acquisition happens it would also mean new tower.

I heard from a guy, who heard from a guy, who heard from his cousin's doctor's mother-in-law's, son's. . . kid's friend's dad, that the People's Bank of China, was planning on building a 123 story building high-rise. The people on the second floor from the top, will keep watch on Dallas to find out why they have so many developments going on and the top floor will be dedicated to taking pictures of Midland new tower and how out of place it looks, while here in OKC we have a 123 story tower surrounded by 5 other 35-50 story buildings.

Real talk though, I still think we're getting a tower, if not more than one. From what I've read about Steve, he seems to be really "in the know" and wouldn't go out on a limb and said what he's already said unless he was confident something was in the works.

I heard from a guy, who heard from a guy, who heard from his cousin's doctor's mother-in-law's, son's. . . kid's friend's dad, that the People's Bank of China, was planning on building a 123 story building high-rise. The people on the second floor from the top, will keep watch on Dallas to find out why they have so many developments going on and the top floor will be dedicated to taking pictures of Midland new tower and how out of place it looks, while here in OKC we have a 123 story tower surrounded by 5 other 35-50 story buildings.

I know you're joking but that's not a huge leap from Korean Airlines building this in LA.

Downtown Los Angeles to get tallest skyscraper in the West - The Reporter (http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_22547623/downtown-los-angeles-get-tallest-skyscraper-west)

I know you're joking but that's not a huge leap from Korean Airlines building this in LA.

Downtown Los Angeles to get tallest skyscraper in the West - The Reporter (http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_22547623/downtown-los-angeles-get-tallest-skyscraper-west)

Wow, first Houston, then Midland, and now LA...... Looks like everyone is getting one this year. Hopefully Santa will bring us one too!

I know you're joking but that's not a huge leap from Korean Airlines building this in LA.

Downtown Los Angeles to get tallest skyscraper in the West - The Reporter (http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_22547623/downtown-los-angeles-get-tallest-skyscraper-west)That is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=167291&page=39

Wilshire Grand Tower, AC Martin, world architecture news, architecture jobs (http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=22183)

http://static.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/22183_5_wilshire5.jpg

http://www.acmartin.com

That tower in LA has been known about for awhile. Not the specifics, but how tall it would be.

That is how cities should be settled - with well defined centers and edges. They should be a destination you arrive at, not something you slowly ease into over miles and miles. Well defined edges and centers is what seperates US cities from the pretty much the rest of the world. It reminds me of this picture of Chartres, FR.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Chartres_1987.jpg/270px-Chartres_1987.jpg

I don't think Midland could be any further from France nor is it an urban model. Just to get that off my chest.

I don't think Midland could be any further from France nor is it an urban model. Just to get that off my chest.

Then I suggest you read up on urban edges and centers (Charter for New Urbanism Principles 1 and 4), or better yet, just go look at the very defined edges of Midland, TX and Chartes, FR on Google Earth and compare it to the blurred urban boundary surrounding most of OKC. You see a little sprawl on the south side of Midland but other than that - it is pretty darn dense, especially for Texas (about 1,600 people per sq mile).

Charter of the New Urbanism | Congress for the New Urbanism (http://www.cnu.org/charter)