Oh piddle. I found my tin foil hat and tried it on a moment ago. And dang it, the first thought I had was ... not the buyer doesn't equal not the ultimate owner.

But, because I kinda like betts, I ripped the hat off my head, scrunched it up and used it for nerf-batting practice. I sure hope that's enough.

I think Betts' source was talking about Sandridge buying the Chase Triangle and misnamed it as 4th and Broadway. ....

the source probably just thought the triangle is on 4th (which it is close enough). ..

I certainly hope you're right. I heard it from a source that I would expect to have reasonably reliable information. But, I want to be wrong.

SR says they did not buy the "triangle" at 4th and Broadway. Don't be surprised if SR has or will buy the Chase drive-in at Robert S. Kerr (3rd) and Broadway for an expansion of the BK garage. This is probably what Betts' source is talking about.

isn't that what I said? <shrug?>

Just noticed this open job position at MidFirst on jobsok.com....Hmmm

Corporate Space Planner - MidFirst Bank

From Steve's chat today:

Do you have any news on the new high rise or where it will be built?

It's still very possible a story might break on a new high rise before the end of the year. Keep your sights set on what develops with the Stage Center property.


Read more: Steve Lackmeyer: Tower Theater still key to revival of NW 23, but owner struggling to tackle tough renovation | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/steve-lackmeyer-tower-theater-still-key-to-revival-of-nw-23-but-owner-struggling-to-tackle-tough-renovation/article/3713852#ixzz27nmzcIdY)

Ok, this is not our presumed "Mystery Tower". However, it is a cool video rendering of a fantasy residential tower in OKC that incorporates a vertical garden:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRmJ_KwONY

I like!

So this looks like it would be on the AF parking lots were it real?

All hypothetical here, but in todays chat with Steve, someone asked the question if Continental was going to build a new headquarters since they are busting at the seams. I think his answer was 'You never know'.....

Maybe he knows something but has to be in denial at this point.

All off-topic posts have been deleted.

Back to subject please.

Id say lets let Continental settle into their new digs first and then get some press about five years down the road. Can't necessarily bank on it quite yet.

All hypothetical here, but in todays chat with Steve, someone asked the question if Continental was going to build a new headquarters since they are busting at the seams. I think his answer was 'You never know'.....

Maybe he knows something but has to be in denial at this point.

I heard Harold Hamm speak on Friday at the Governor's Energy Conference and he said they are on schedule to reach their 5 year employee growth plan in 3 years.

I heard Harold Hamm speak on Friday at the Governor's Energy Conference and he said they are on schedule to reach their 5 year employee growth plan in 3 years.

You know, if they are a couple of years ahead of schedule, maybe they realize they'll need more space sooner than previously thought. With 3 years being the estimated minimum for a major structure, they just could be the one.

Also, Devon has provided a pretty good blueprint for any growing OKC company who wants to build their own tower. The process of working with the City to acquire land, the approval process, budgets, timelines, etc.

And, I bet Larry Nichols would be more than happy to provide guidance. These guys all know each other well after all.

I'm convinced that any new major tower other than from AF, which won't happen now, or Midfirst has to be energy related. The only two I could see is OG&E or Continental. If I recall, Continentals plan was to employ over 750 within 5 years, and with only 13 or 14 available floors in their office building, they will be in the same position that Devon was in being spread out in multiple buildings. It will probably depend on the election results in November as to where this will all end up.

Maybe Mid America tower is our incubator for downtown towers!

I'm convinced that any new major tower other than from AF, which won't happen now, or Midfirst has to be energy related. The only two I could see is OG&E or Continental. If I recall, Continentals plan was to employ over 750 within 5 years, and with only 13 or 14 available floors in their office building, they will be in the same position that Devon was in being spread out in multiple buildings. It will probably depend on the election results in November as to where this will all end up.

I really wish MidFirst would move downtown. That'd be a nice coup. It wouldn't upset me to see OG&E consolidate down there either. And if Continental had to build, well damn, that'd be the icing on a very sweet cake.

I'm convinced that any new major tower other than from AF, which won't happen now, or Midfirst has to be energy related. The only two I could see is OG&E or Continental. If I recall, Continentals plan was to employ over 750 within 5 years, and with only 13 or 14 available floors in their office building, they will be in the same position that Devon was in being spread out in multiple buildings. It will probably depend on the election results in November as to where this will all end up.

Don't forget the very real possibility that Devon could be adding another building/tower sooner than expected, too.

Don't forget the very real possibility that Devon could be adding another building/tower sooner than expected, too.

Not doubting you at all, but where are you getting this info?

How full is the current tower?

I'm pretty sure the Devon tower has ample space folks...chill.

Actually, a couple of Devon employees have posted that the tower is already pretty full.

If that is the case, then they may already be in the planning stages for expansion, as we now know it takes almost a full 3 years to bring office space on-line.


Also, keep in mind they are in a very strong financial position; they paid cash for their $750 million complex after all. So, they could very easily buy a ton of new assets or even a smaller energy company or two and that would drive the need for a lot more space.

Actually, a couple of Devon employees have posted that the tower is already pretty full.

If that is the case, then they may already be in the planning stages for expansion, as we now know it takes almost a full 3 years to bring office space on-line.


Also, keep in mind they are in a very strong financial position; they paid cash for their $750 million complex after all. So, they could very easily buy a ton of new assets or even a smaller energy company or two and that would drive the need for a lot more space.

I honestly think that Devon will be expanding on the Preftakes block in conjunction with a medical facility. Don't they have a Devon Tower completion ceremony on 10/23? I wonder if they will announce or hint to something then? Or could Devon be behind developments with Stage Center, a lot of questions will be answered in the next 6 months.

Yes, it's pretty clear Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions, so it's just a matter of time before they start doing something on that block.

I'm sure they are at least some conceptual plans they've been working on.

I kind of hope Devon is not behind stage center.

High-Rise residential (obviously with street level retail/restaurant) is almost surely the best use of that plot. It's right between the downtown elementary and MBG, super close and centrally located to all the CBD entertainment options like Civic Center and the Arena, and would really increase foot traffic around the Convention Center (if it ends up being built on the Ford Site) since Central Park would only be 3 blocks away. It would also have a fantastic view for the foreseeable future.

Yes, it's pretty clear Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions, so it's just a matter of time before they start doing something on that block.

I'm sure they are at least some conceptual plans they've been working on.

Forgive my ignorance, but when did it become pretty clear that Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions? I apparently missed something.

And not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems that a lot of this talk of Continental needing a new facility and Devon looking to expand seems awfully premature. Throw in some of these calls for Maps IV, and it seems totally irrational. We're still mired in the mess that is Maps 3 that is overrun with problems and cutbacks and we're talking about what may be in the next package and Continental is still moving in... /endrant

"Pretty clear" is a bit of an overstatement but Devon's attorneys have been helping Pretakes and there are other little signs of their involvement.

I would say lots of people who follow downtown closely all believe Devon is the money behind the acquisitions.

Forgive my ignorance, but when did it become pretty clear that Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions? I apparently missed something.

And not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems that a lot of this talk of Continental needing a new facility and Devon looking to expand seems awfully premature. Throw in some of these calls for Maps IV, and it seems totally irrational. We're still mired in the mess that is Maps 3 that is overrun with problems and cutbacks and we're talking about what may be in the next package and Continental is still moving in... /endrant

I don't think I dreamed this, but when Preftakes got a demolition permit for the property just east of the Bus station that ended up being a parking lot, at one of the public meetings, some of Devons attorneys were present.....that may be where some of this is coming from. About 3 years ago I think.

I don't think I dreamed this, but when Preftakes got a demolition permit for the property just east of the Bus station that ended up being a parking lot, at one of the public meetings, some of Devons attorneys were present.....that may be where some of this is coming from. About 3 years ago I think.

Well, after your and Pete's responses, it's very clear I missed that little nugget. Thanks for sharing.

I don't think I dreamed this, but when Preftakes got a demolition permit for the property just east of the Bus station that ended up being a parking lot, at one of the public meetings, some of Devons attorneys were present.....that may be where some of this is coming from. About 3 years ago I think.

Devon wrote a letter of support, which on its face seemed really odd...

Forgive my ignorance, but when did it become pretty clear that Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions? I apparently missed something.

And not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems that a lot of this talk of Continental needing a new facility and Devon looking to expand seems awfully premature. Throw in some of these calls for Maps IV, and it seems totally irrational. We're still mired in the mess that is Maps 3 that is overrun with problems and cutbacks and we're talking about what may be in the next package and Continental is still moving in... /endrant

i'm sorry but i think it is really early to say we are "mired in the mess that is Maps 3"

Forgive my ignorance, but when did it become pretty clear that Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions? I apparently missed something.

And not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems that a lot of this talk of Continental needing a new facility and Devon looking to expand seems awfully premature. Throw in some of these calls for Maps IV, and it seems totally irrational. We're still mired in the mess that is Maps 3 that is overrun with problems and cutbacks and we're talking about what may be in the next package and Continental is still moving in... /endrant

The MAPS III tax has been overperforming projections. It's not true that there have been "cutbacks." There are other issues with MAPS III, primarily concern that the most expensive project, the convention center, will not be able to be built for the price tag approved by voters, but the MAPS III tax collections have been robust.

Actually, a couple of Devon employees have posted that the tower is already pretty full.

If that is the case, then they may already be in the planning stages for expansion, as we now know it takes almost a full 3 years to bring office space on-line.


Also, keep in mind they are in a very strong financial position; they paid cash for their $750 million complex after all. So, they could very easily buy a ton of new assets or even a smaller energy company or two and that would drive the need for a lot more space.



Didn't they say that they hadn't even finished building out the new tower yet? How can it already be full when they've said themselves that they weren't going to fill it up? I'd say check the sources.

3 years is a overblown estimate as well. If you're talking building a new building, yes. But you can get office space converted from a precious tenant, even if you gut it, in a few months.

i'm sorry but i think it is really early to say we are "mired in the mess that is Maps 3"

As a contrarian, you never disappoint. Perhaps it's not mired in a mess, but it sure as hell doesn't look like it's going swimmingly.

Guru, the tax collections may be going well, but they surely have talked about cutting back the sidewalks (if no other funding is found in addition to these robust collections you mentioned) and the convention center is still a major concern. So let's not pretend that all is well with Maps 3 and then move right along to discussing Maps 4.

All you have to do is watch last weeks city council meeting to see the problems with MAPS 3. It isn't a money problem, it is a process problem.

As a contrarian, you never disappoint. Perhaps it's not mired in a mess, but it sure as hell doesn't look like it's going swimmingly.

Guru, the tax collections may be going well, but they surely have talked about cutting back the sidewalks (if no other funding is found in addition to these robust collections you mentioned) and the convention center is still a major concern. So let's not pretend that all is well with Maps 3 and then move right along to discussing Maps 4.

Unless you have been regularly attending all the subcommittee meetings, it's difficult to know precisely how swimmingly MAPS 3 is going or not. While I agree that the sidewalk problem is a major disappointment, it is only one of 7 projects. The problem with it seems to be related to poor analysis of cost factors prior to the vote, but the committee has clearly been hard at work and we will get sidewalks, if not as many as were touted. While many of us have concerns about the convention center site, I'm not sure that qualifies as not "going swimmingly". The committee has picked a site and a designer. If anything, it may be going too swimmingly for a lot of people. The new central park is almost done with land acquisition for the north half of the park and they've got an architect. They're having public meetings. It looks as if they are doing very well. The streetcar committee has a route and an engineer. Public meetings are in the offing, once we've had the engineer give the route a hard look and make suggestions for changes, if necessary. The river subcommittee work also, pardon my enjoyment of the pun, seems be be moving along swimmingly as well. It's still fairly early in the process, as we don't even have the final MAPS for Kids project completed, but I'm excited about what we're going to get with MAPS 3, and I suspect that once all the dust has cleared, the public will be as well. What we don't need to do is create a bunch of sturm und drang about it that helps mire the process.

Unless you have been regularly attending all the subcommittee meetings, it's difficult to know precisely how swimmingly MAPS 3 is going or not. While I agree that the sidewalk problem is a major disappointment, it is only one of 7 projects. The problem with it seems to be related to poor analysis of cost factors prior to the vote, but the committee has clearly been hard at work and we will get sidewalks, if not as many as were touted. While many of us have concerns about the convention center site, I'm not sure that qualifies as not "going swimmingly". The committee has picked a site and a designer. If anything, it may be going too swimmingly for a lot of people. The new central park is almost done with land acquisition for the north half of the park and they've got an architect. They're having public meetings. It looks as if they are doing very well. The streetcar committee has a route and an engineer. Public meetings are in the offing, once we've had the engineer give the route a hard look and make suggestions for changes, if necessary. The river subcommittee work also, pardon my enjoyment of the pun, seems be be moving along swimmingly as well. It's still fairly early in the process, as we don't even have the final MAPS for Kids project completed, but I'm excited about what we're going to get with MAPS 3, and I suspect that once all the dust has cleared, the public will be as well. What we don't need to do is create a bunch of sturm und drang about it that helps mire the process.

Betts, I have been as active in the processes as my schedule and other factors has allowed me to be. It is difficult to gauge the success of Maps 3 at this early juncture, which was really my original point about exercising a little patience as we wait to see how Maps 3 unfolds before we go touting a potential Maps 4/new Continental building/Devon expansion/whatever else.

I don't think anyone is really touting a MAPS 4. Or at least, not that I've heard. Obviously, we all speculate as to what other projects or expansions we'd like to see, and since at this point in time our best model for projects is MAPS, it's natural to think ahead. But, while I think it's perfectly reasonable to start thinking about what might be in a MAPS 4 election, we need a lot more concrete in the ground before it would be politically wise to start talking publicly about it. That being said, I do believe that the public will be very happy with the MAPS 3 projects once they're completed. The general voting public is probably far less interested in the location of the convention center than most of us and if it looks nice, they'll be happy. In fact, if no one published the fact that we're not going to get as many miles of sidewalks as promised, the public probably wouldn't question the end result. That is, unless they thought they were voting for putting sidewalks throughout the city. Which is possible. I've been shocked that a few people thought they were voting for a few more rubber tire trolleys when they voted for a streetcar.

So getting back to the possibilites of a Mystery Tower... I'm hoping for a 50 story tall building to be built by the guy who just bought Dipping Dots! And i hope the building looks just like a big cup of dipping dots, and i want it to go on the site just south of the arena where we all kinda thought the CC should have gone originally. (which btw is kinda crazy now that i think about it, cause i actually hope they decide to move the CC to the Bricktown site, cause the more i think about it, the more i like that site the best. Just imagine the 20-30 story convention center hotel that is a full brick building, well probably partially brick)

So getting back to the possibilites of a Mystery Tower... I'm hoping for a 50 story tall building to be built by the guy who just bought Dipping Dots! And i hope the building looks just like a big cup of dipping dots, and i want it to go on the site just south of the arena where we all kinda thought the CC should have gone originally. (which btw is kinda crazy now that i think about it, cause i actually hope they decide to move the CC to the Bricktown site, cause the more i think about it, the more i like that site the best. Just imagine the 20-30 story convention center hotel that is a full brick building, well probably partially brick)

So you want something like this ...

The Basket Building in Ohio (http://www.homedit.com/the-basket-building-in-ohio/)

So you want something like this ...

The Basket Building in Ohio (http://www.homedit.com/the-basket-building-in-ohio/)

o my gosh... how did i not know that building existed until today... haha

As a contrarian, you never disappoint. Perhaps it's not mired in a mess, but it sure as hell doesn't look like it's going swimmingly.

Guru, the tax collections may be going well, but they surely have talked about cutting back the sidewalks (if no other funding is found in addition to these robust collections you mentioned) and the convention center is still a major concern. So let's not pretend that all is well with Maps 3 and then move right along to discussing Maps 4.

Not pretending everything is going swimmingly. The issue with the sidewalks is that the costs came in way above projections, like by 40%. There was no fiduciary "cutback," it's just that the folks doing the projecting obviously screwed the pooch.

MAPS 4 will happen or it won't. That will probably be determined by how happy people are with MAPS 3. The MAPS program has a huge amount of goodwill because it gets credit for giving us the Thunder. Whenever MAPS 3 is completed, if the convention center looks nice and the streetcar is cool, then there'll be all the support in the world for the next version. I can't help but think people will want to build a football stadium where the Cotton Seed Mill is now.

A football stadium makes about as much sense as a high-speed commuter rail connection to Anadarko. The NFL still needs to figure out how to get a franchise in LA.

Maps 4, if we don't screw it up with what a boondoggle Maps 3 has turned into, will be a big push for transit.

MAPS 4 will happen or it won't.

Hard to disagree with this statement.


I can't help but think people will want to build a football stadium where the Cotton Seed Mill is now.

This would be such a bad idea. An underused football team-less football stadium

if a football stadium is what people think needs to be built, it should be the size of Taft stadium and be used for high school games, and maybe a UFL team (or a USFL team since they claim to be coming back this spring) (also should be set up to be used for soccer). And if that is the size, then why waste good real estate like that for it... i would say build it at the State Fair Grounds. OKC will not have an NFL team in my lifetime, and i am a fairly young man

if a football stadium is what people think needs to be built, it should be the size of Taft stadium and be used for high school games, and maybe a UFL team (or a USFL team since they claim to be coming back this spring) (also should be set up to be used for soccer). And if that is the size, then why waste good real estate like that for it... i would say build it at the State Fair Grounds. OKC will not have an NFL team in my lifetime, and i am a fairly young man

all it would take is someone to buy a team that wanted to move it to OKC

I agree that a football stadium makes no sense. Now, if OKC had a lead on an MLS team then a soccer stadium that could also be used for football might be worth doing, but I'm not sure there's even a market for that. This topic has been discussed many times before in other threads.

all it would take is someone to buy a team that wanted to move it to OKC

and while that is true... i'm just saying we won't get one. i think that's a pretty easy statement to make.

I didn't say it was a good idea. I just think that's what people will want. Personally I'd want to see money to renovate First National and have it owned by the city.

The NFL still needs to figure out how to get a franchise in LA.


Yeah, and they're spending like a billion + dollars on their new stadium. We're talking 30% more than we'll spend on all the MAPS 3 projects combined.

I'd rather us just pump more money into the park and make it super awesome.

I didn't say it was a good idea. I just think that's what people will want. Personally I'd want to see money to renovate First National and have it owned by the city.


Many people said the same thing about building an arena. They cried about spending money on a arena with no team to play in it. Well guess what?

No arena and the Hornets wouldn't have even sniffed OKC and the Thunder sure as hell wouldn't be here.

Look at Jacksonville,they are about to lose that team in the next few yrs. They have a new owner from somewhere around St. Louis/Ill. area that tried to buy the Rams. He's not going to keep that team there when he can't draw flies.

So there is a chance that a deal could be made to bring an NFL team to the city. A small chance but if there are deep enough pockets that want it to happen then there's a chance. One thing that I don't think anyone would disagree with is that the cotton mill site would be perfect for a stadium. It screams stadium in fact. Too bad OKC doesn't have more forward thinking people.

Many people said the same thing about building an arena. They cried about spending money on a arena with no team to play in it. Well guess what?

No arena and the Hornets wouldn't have even sniffed OKC and the Thunder sure as hell wouldn't be here.

Look at Jacksonville,they are about to lose that team in the next few yrs. They have a new owner from somewhere around St. Louis/Ill. area that tried to buy the Rams. He's not going to keep that team there when he can't draw flies.

So there is a chance that a deal could be made to bring an NFL team to the city. A small chance but if there are deep enough pockets that want it to happen then there's a chance. One thing that I don't think anyone would disagree with is that the cotton mill site would be perfect for a stadium. It screams stadium in fact. Too bad OKC doesn't have more forward thinking people.

That theory sure worked out for San Antonio as well... they built a stadium specifically to get an NFL team, and how long have they been waiting?

Once we get the stadium built, let's go after the Seahawks !! LOL

I was just thinking of the cities bigger than OKC that don't have an NFL team. That was not really the case for the NBA. We were right about the size of the smallest NBA markets. LA has no team, nor does Portland or San Antonio. Memphis is just a little bit bigger than us, although they've got the Titans and Salt Lake City doesn't really have any geographic ties to teams. Not to mention the fact that Jerry Jones would probably lobby extremely hard against us getting a team. I don't see it happening, even though I think we could and would support an NFL team.

I hate to be "that guy", but it seems like almost every thread on this site is getting sidetracked.

I didn't say it was a good idea. I just think that's what people will want. Personally I'd want to see money to renovate First National and have it owned by the city.

Okay. I also disagree that people would want that.

I hate to be "that guy", but it seems like almost every thread on this site is getting sidetracked.

Great now we're talking about sidetracked threads... now we're even more sidetracked.

Great now we're talking about sidetracked threads... now we're even more sidetracked.

It is a mystery, and you need many red herrings to help with the surprise twist at the end.

Didn't they say that they hadn't even finished building out the new tower yet? How can it already be full when they've said themselves that they weren't going to fill it up? I'd say check the sources.

3 years is a overblown estimate as well. If you're talking building a new building, yes. But you can get office space converted from a precious tenant, even if you gut it, in a few months.

Well, the tower just got a little "fuller" today, Bomber...

Devon Energy Announces Consolidation of U.S. E&P Operations
October 11, 2012 8:00 AM ET

Devon Energy Corporation DVN today announced plans to consolidate its U.S. personnel into a single operations group centrally located at the company’s corporate headquarters in Oklahoma City. As a result, Devon will close its office in Houston and transfer operational responsibilities for assets in South Texas, East Texas and Louisiana to Oklahoma City. The company expects to relocate a number of employees from Houston to Oklahoma City. The completion of this initiative is expected to be substantially complete by the end of the first-quarter 2013.

“Consolidating our U.S. operations will improve our ability to quickly shift the focus of our workforce between project areas as economic conditions dictate,” said Dave Hager, Devon’s executive vice president of exploration and production. “In addition, this move will improve the sharing of best practices and enhance overall operational efficiency.”

Devon expects the announced changes to deliver savings of approximately $80 million annually. The cost reductions will materialize through both lower general and administrative expenses and reduced capitalized personnel costs.

Reorganization charges are expected to approximate $125 million, with $100 million estimated to be incurred in the fourth-quarter 2012. The remaining costs will be incurred in the first half of 2013. In aggregate, roughly 20 percent of the total restructuring charges are non-cash.

Devon Energy Corporation is an Oklahoma City-based independent energy company engaged in oil and gas exploration and production. Devon is a leading U.S.-based independent oil and gas producer and is included in the S&P 500 Index. For additional information, visit Devon Energy (http://www.devonenergy.com).

Now this is pretty big news..................I wonder how many workers would transfer ?

Interesting:

Devon Energy Tower (Houston)

Devon Energy Tower (Houston) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Energy_Tower_(Houston))

I wonder how many floors of this tower is for Devon?

You would think that even after finding synergies this new group would still use a few floors of the new tower just by themselves.