Figured you would do that, but as others have explained to you before, when we mention a building that we think would be cool to have in OKC, we don't mean the foot traffic of the building as well, just the building itself with a cafe, coffee shop, barber shop or whatever you can imagine. Everybody here (I think/hope) wants Oklahoma City to have foot traffic downtown, so just imagine that same picture of the BofA Corporate Center with hundreds of people walking in front of it as well as street level interactions within the building itself.

Thanks for the picture, BTW. I've always wondered how it looked at street level but have never been to Charlotte or thought to use Google Earth street view.

I like how instead of simple bollards they use benches, bike racks and trees to keep a secure perimeter around the building. Looks completely natural and you'd have to think about it for a minute to realize they are actually there for security. Really nicely-executed pedestrian-scale sidewalk presence for a skyscraper. Someone was obviously placing high priority on the sidewalk environment.

I like how instead of simple bollards they use benches, bike racks and trees to keep a secure perimeter around the building. Looks completely natural and you'd have to think about it for a minute to realize they are actually there for security. Really nicely-executed pedestrian-scale sidewalk presence for a skyscraper. Someone was obviously placing high priority on the sidewalk environment.

I thought it seemed pretty peaceful just from a quick glance and then I went back and looked at it harder and made the same observations you did.

Figured you would do that, but as others have explained to you before, when we mention a building that we think would be cool to have in OKC, we don't mean the foot traffic of the building as well, just the building itself with a cafe, coffee shop, barber shop or whatever you can imagine. Everybody here (I think/hope) wants Oklahoma City to have foot traffic downtown, so just imagine that same picture of the BofA Corporate Center with hundreds of people walking in front of it as well as street level interactions within the building itself.

Thanks for the picture, BTW. I've always wondered how it looked at street level but have never been to Charlotte or thought to use Google Earth street view.

I would like to think everyone wants foot traffic as well which is why I pause every time someone says it would be cool to have (pick a building) in OKC, when that building does nothing to support or encourage ANY foot traffic. As Urbanized pointed out they spent a lot of time on the sidewalk, but then didn't make a single reason for anyone to use the sidewalk. Meanwhile, right across the street are retails stores, restaurants, etc.. with lots of people walking (and even sitting on the exact same benches you see empty in front of BofA). I would rather have the 10 story building across the street.

I would like to think everyone wants foot traffic as well which is why I pause every time someone says it wold be cool to have (pick a building) in OKC, when that building does nothing to support or encourage ANY foot traffic. As Urbanized pointed out they spent a lot of time on the sidewalk, but then didn't make single reason for anyone to use the sidewalk. Meanwhile, right across the street are retails stores, restaurnats, etc.. with lots of people walking (and even sitting on the exact same benches you see empty in front of BofA).

We're on the same page then. I meant the building as a design, not including the street level interaction. I know that sounds shallow but I'm generalizing when I talk about buildings I'd like to plop into OKC. Overall, my dream is that every building OKC has -- and will have -- could implement well executed street level interactions (I'm dreaming, I know).

We're on the same page then. I meant the building as a design, not including the street level interaction. I know that sounds shallow but I'm generalizing when I talk about buildings I'd like to plop into OKC. Overall, my dream is that every building OKC has -- and will have -- could implement well executed street level interactions (I'm dreaming, I know).

I know what you are saying. Somewhere out there are buildings that are tall, have stylish architecture, AND provide a quality street life. To be honest though, 'tall' is way down on my list of features.

I like how instead of simple bollards they use benches, bike racks and trees to keep a secure perimeter around the building. Looks completely natural and you'd have to think about it for a minute to realize they are actually there for security. Really nicely-executed pedestrian-scale sidewalk presence for a skyscraper. Someone was obviously placing high priority on the sidewalk environment.

I was about to say. I'm not sure Kerry wants to use this as an example for another one of his points..

Not every corporate skyscraper can or will be mixed-use.

I would like to see new skyscrapers with residential components in the area. Some type of corporate housing for employees.

According to Steve, via his live chat today, he is still seeing evidence that this project is still moving forward, with a mixed-use tower thrown in the mix...good deal...with an announcement this next year or so, whatever that means, lol:

10:31 Comment From Joe

We have a couple new high rises expected to be built within the next several years: the convention center hotel and Sandridge's new tower. What are the true chances we add a couple more to that list?

10:34 Steve Lackmeyer:

I am sticking with what I wrote in a column earlier this year: we are likely to see an announcement of another office or mixed-use tower downtown sometime this next year or so. I am seeing and hearing too much related to such a development to think otherwise. Add in the already announced intention by Sandridge Energy that it will build an office tower at Broadway and Robert S. Kerr and the city's determination to include a new conference hotel with the convention center and we are likely to see an ongoing transformation of the downtown Oklahoma City skyline.

10:47 Comment From Dave:

Any news on the mystery tower or new international company headquarters. I believe that article came out in February and we were supposed to know something within six months.

10:48 Steve Lackmeyer:

Dave, I commented earlier in this chat about the tower. I have no new news to report other than I am continuing to see evidence this "mystery" project is continuing to move forward....

I have a contact whom i would say is very credible for being in the know of this specific situation, that MidFirst is still looking at the UPUBCO owned land just south of 4th st between EK Gaylord and the railroad tracks for a new corporate office.

They said that things kinda calmed down a bit after some of the issues with Chesapeake and with American Fidelity buying the UPUBCO Tower, but that more chatter has been happening about this still possibly going through

We know that MidFirst made an offer on the OPUBCO tower and surrounding property so that clearly indicates 1) the are looking to move/expand and 2) they have been talking with the OPUBCO people.

I wish Chesapeake would hurry up and buy their buildings for their usual outlandish prices so MidFirst can spend that money elsewhere.

I'm just worried the CHK gravy train has already come to a halt (which is probably a good thing when you take the bigger view).

I wonder if MidFirst was looking at the 4th/Gaylord site, but now that the Stage Center site is available, they switched gears...It would be nice if we get a high rise residential on the Stage Center site, and a high rise commercial on the OPUBCO site...but MidFirst may be pushing hard for the Stage Center site...More questions, I wonder who is behind the mixed-use tower? Hall/Howard?

I wonder if MidFirst was looking at the 4th/Gaylord site, but now that the Stage Center site is available, they switched gears...It would be nice if we get a high rise residential on the Stage Center site, and a high rise commercial on the OPUBCO site...but MidFirst may be pushing hard for the Stage Center site...More questions, I wonder who is behind the mixed-use tower? Hall/Howard?

also of note is that a bank may be much more willing to include "spec" space in any tower that they choose to build

We know that MidFirst made an offer on the OPUBCO tower and surrounding property so that clearly indicates 1) the are looking to move/expand and 2) they have been talking with the OPUBCO people.

I wish Chesapeake would hurry up and buy their buildings for their usual outlandish prices so MidFirst can spend that money elsewhere.

I'm just worried the CHK gravy train has already come to a halt (which is probably a good thing when you take the bigger view).


apparently MidFirst was looking at the 4th street land when UPUBCO just kinda mentioned that they tower and surround property could also be an option, and so they stopped talking about the downtown site and looked at the tower then, and then of course as we know AF came in and went over midfirst in a bid...

but like i was saying, it sounds like the chatter for the 4th street site is back again. I am of the same hope that G.Walker is that perhaps Midfirst does build on the 4th street site and then we get a completely different high rise development on the Stage Center site. add in the CC hotel and the new sandridge tower, and the completely look of the OKC skyline could be changed again in just a few years

Count me among fans of MidFirst building on the 4th ST site as well.

A tower on 4th and Gaylord would really expand the skyline to the northwest! Hopefully a 700+ foot tower.

So, Sandridge, Midfirst, Convention Center, Mixed Use, and then hopefully in 2-3 years Continental will be ready for a massive tower. Their growth is still staggering and could fill a massive tower in 5 years. Then in 3-4 years I see Devon needing more room as well possibly building a tower again in 5 years.

Then rumors of a new company and possibly OG&E building a new tower and putting all their people in one building downtown would be awesome! They could sell their building to another growing company. They could use a modern building and one up OneOK in Tulsa with a tower 100'+ taller than OneOK.

Sorry if this article has been posted elsewhere on OKC Talk.

http://newsok.com/steve-lackmeyer-downtown-okc-construction-will-continue-at-a-robust-rate/article/3697833

I have been hearing the OG+E rumors pop up here and there. I tend to think somebody is blowing smoke. I talked to Pete and Steve about the rumor a few months ago when I first overheard it, and the insider consensus (which I don't consider myself part of in case anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke) is that it's just a cool rumor.

It makes a lot of sense for OG+E to consolidate, but keep in mind what they'd be moving up from... metal buildings on S. High Street.


Count me among fans of MidFirst building on the 4th ST site as well.

Absolutely, but I just have to ask: Are there opponents? :tongue:

Absolutely, but I just have to ask: Are there opponents? :tongue:

God only knows, but in this town, I wouldn't be surprised to hear of some.

4th and Gaylord? That's an odd (and rather small) triangular shaped plot of land. If someone can make it work, more power to them.

Isn't this the same piece of land the Chamber of Commerce wanted its HQ at?

A tower on 4th and Gaylord would really expand the skyline to the northwest! Hopefully a 700+ foot tower.

So, Sandridge, Midfirst, Convention Center, Mixed Use, and then hopefully in 2-3 years Continental will be ready for a massive tower. Their growth is still staggering and could fill a massive tower in 5 years. Then in 3-4 years I see Devon needing more room as well possibly building a tower again in 5 years.

Then rumors of a new company and possibly OG&E building a new tower and putting all their people in one building downtown would be awesome! They could sell their building to another growing company. They could use a modern building and one up OneOK in Tulsa with a tower 100'+ taller than OneOK.

Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard. This is exactly what the thread was like 6 months ago... And nothing happened. It's great to think about possibilities, but let's just slow down a little.

Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard. This is exactly what the thread was like 6 months ago... And nothing happened. It's great to think about possibilities, but let's just slow down a little.

Agreed. Nothing against enthusiasm, but let's not get over-enthusiastic yet.

apparently MidFirst was looking at the 4th street land when UPUBCO just kinda mentioned that they tower and surround property could also be an option, and so they stopped talking about the downtown site and looked at the tower then, and then of course as we know AF came in and went over midfirst in a bid...

but like i was saying, it sounds like the chatter for the 4th street site is back again. I am of the same hope that G.Walker is that perhaps Midfirst does build on the 4th street site and then we get a completely different high rise development on the Stage Center site. add in the CC hotel and the new sandridge tower, and the completely look of the OKC skyline could be changed again in just a few years
Why do you keep referring to them as UPUBCO?

A tower on 4th and Gaylord would really expand the skyline to the northwest!.
northEAST

I have been hearing the OG+E rumors pop up here and there. I tend to think somebody is blowing smoke. I talked to Pete and Steve about the rumor a few months ago when I first overheard it, and the insider consensus (which I don't consider myself part of in case anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke) is that it's just a cool rumor.

It makes a lot of sense for OG+E to consolidate, but keep in mind what they'd be moving up from... metal buildings on S. High Street.



Absolutely, but I just have to ask: Are there opponents? :tongue:

I noticed within the last few weeks that the OG&E signage came off the two multi-story office buildings at I-44 and Lincoln.

I noticed within the last few weeks that the OG&E signage came off the two multi-story office buildings at I-44 and Lincoln.

Northeast....whatever...everyone knew what I meant.

Its been a year since the announcement of OG&E leaving that building and moving Enogex to Leadership Square. We have talked about them redoing floors in the Leadership Square building on here. We also talked about Chesapeake buying those two buildings. Chesapeake will be selling/leasing those buildings to the new company that bought their Midstream assets and that is where they will be headquartered. I don't know if anyone knew the last one.

I think what happened was that speculation about this project started way too early given comments by Beffort and Steve in February. Beffort stated we will know this year, and Steve's latest article, 7 months later, is just a repeat of what he has been saying for a while. But his latest comments about a new tower seem a little more solid now versus 7 months ago. We still have a lot time left in 2012, but it seems like this will actually come to fruition.

Several key things changed since all the serious speculation started: 1) the OPUBCO properties became available and American Fidelity jumped on the opportunity; 2) it started to look like the Stage Center property would be available and now it is; and 3) the changes at Chesapeake mean it's unlikely they are going to be paying an obscene sum to MidFirst for their properties.

So, this took one big player (AF) completely out of the downtown development derby, has perhaps slowed the plans of another (MidFirst), and also created an situation where others probably wanted to take a wait-and-see attitude.

4th and Gaylord? That's an odd (and rather small) triangular shaped plot of land. If someone can make it work, more power to them.

Isn't this the same piece of land the Chamber of Commerce wanted its HQ at?

Look at Google Maps...It's bigger than you think. You could fit Devon Tower, Podium and Rotunda on that plot if you reorganized the three pieces. Towers by themselves take up such a small amount of land, which is the whole point of going vertical.

Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard. This is exactly what the thread was like 6 months ago... And nothing happened. It's great to think about possibilities, but let's just slow down a little.

LOL. True.

Why do you keep referring to them as UPUBCO?

Unscrupulous Publishing Company?

Unscrupulous Publishing Company?

Guru FTW

Why do you keep referring to them as UPUBCO?

apparently, i don't double check when i type... i hadn't even noticed i was doing that... OPUBCO... sorry

I like UPUBCO..I'm gonna use that now

apparently, i don't double check when i type... i hadn't even noticed i was doing that... OPUBCO... sorry

I was just curious as you were doing it on multiple posts in multiple threads. Thought you were implying something.

Metro, it's officially UPUBCO now, the publishing company formerly known as OPUBCO.. now more honestly-named

Is that what you call it in Canada eh?

Huh?

metro is back! Your snarky comments have been missed (even though I often disagree). You've been very quiet. Where ya been, bro?

Funny how the "Mystery Tower" speculation is now become "Mystery Towers". Like solving one mystery wasn't enough fun for us.

Funny how the "Mystery Tower" speculation is now become "Mystery Towers". Like solving one mystery wasn't enough fun for us.

Yes, recent comments by Steve state this mystery tower is still moving forward, now whether its an office tower or residential tower, or maybe both, have not been confirmed. I am sure we will know something either way, within the next few months. And to wonder where it will be located, one will just have to look to the Stage Center site.

There's a difference between Steve stating that "this mystery tower is moving forward," and Steve saying that he sees some evidence that it could possibly happen in the future... but, as always, you have solidified the information in your own mind, thus confusing people and making them overly optimistic about what we really know.

What is so hard for you to just wait for solid information before running with it? You've done it repeatedly on this thread. Just sllllloooooooowwwwww dooooooooowwwwwwnnnnnn.

And to wonder where it will be located, one will just have to look to the Stage Center site.

Or the grass site next to the railroad viaduct on EK Gaylord.

There's a difference between Steve stating that "this mystery tower is moving forward," and Steve saying that he sees some evidence that it could possibly happen in the future... but, as always, you have solidified the information in your own mind, thus confusing people and making them overly optimistic about what we really know.

What is so hard for you to just wait for solid information before running with it? You've done it repeatedly on this thread. Just sllllloooooooowwwwww dooooooooowwwwwwnnnnnn.

First of all, I can say what I want, and if I want to comment on this thread everyday, I can, and you can control it. Second of all, you didn't read his full transcript:

10:47 Comment From Dave:

Any news on the mystery tower or new international company headquarters. I believe that article came out in February and we were supposed to know something within six months.

10:48 Steve Lackmeyer:

Dave, I commented earlier in this chat about the tower. I have no new news to report other than I am continuing to see evidence this "mystery" project is continuing to move forward....

so how is that confusing people KilgoreTrout? I just simply repeated what he said...

Walker, if you could step in anyone's shoes tomorrow I already know who it would be....Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve. LOL

Actually no, Mark Beffort, lol...he knows more than Steve...lol...

Heck, I'd love to step in Mark Beffort shoes myself....

This certainly doesn't hurt the prospects for a future office tower.

http://newsok.com/office-space-is-getting-tight-and-tighter-in-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/3699962

This certainly doesn't hurt the prospects for a future office tower.

http://newsok.com/office-space-is-getting-tight-and-tighter-in-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/3699962

I saw this earlier and was thinking this thread would be the place to put it; I was also thinking what you said. Great minds think alike, I suppose (or it's just that obvious to put together). :-)

This recent report is good news also:

http://www.levybeffort.com/Websites/gelb/images/2012_Q2_Office_Trends_report.pdf

Yes, interestingly, there is absolutely no for-lease office space under construction anywhere in the City.

And, there is roughly only 200,000SF of available Class A space in all of Oklahoma City. It would nice to see a spec tower go up, but developers just don't do spec anymore these days, especially on a large scale. What company in Oklahoma City has the capital to build spec, and take that chance? The only company I can see capable of pulling it off would be Chesapeake Land Development Company.

^^you just killed your own thread^^

Then who could pull it off?

And, there is roughly only 200,000SF of available Class A space in all of Oklahoma City. It would nice to see a spec tower go up, but developers just don't do spec anymore these days, especially on a large scale. What company in Oklahoma City has the capital to build spec, and take that chance? The only company I can see capable of pulling it off would be Chesapeake Land Development Company.

There are more than just Chesapeake out there. Midfirst could do it. Should do it......

metro is back! Your snarky comments have been missed (even though I often disagree). You've been very quiet. Where ya been, bro?

Been too busy with my kid and career.

It's not just OKC where developers don't do spec anymore. Spec is a dying breed world-wide, even internationally except for a few places where development gets significant government backing (like Russia, Norway, UAE, etc). Even places right next to those locales, like Sweden, Netherlands, Baltics, Israel, etc (more moderate free market economies) have seen spec office construction fall off a cliff. In the U.S., skyscrapers are being built for corporate tenants (build-to-suit) or hotel, mixed-use, or residential.


metro is back! Your snarky comments have been missed (even though I often disagree). You've been very quiet. Where ya been, bro?

You mean his personal vendettas against myself, Steve, and others - and his jabs that make no sense whatsoever. "in Canada eh?" No, he just missed that OPUBCO has been officially renamed UPUBCO, on just the other page. I have no idea what that has to do with Canada and "eh?" which most Canadians don't actually use (we don't all say "y'all")

Spec died in the financial crisis. Developers can't get spec buildings built, so unless you have a big tenant in tow -- and even then -- it's darn hard.

Look at how good the economy has been in OKC and how tight the office market is, and there isn't one single office building under construction outside those being built by companies for their own use (Devon, CHK, SandRidge, Paycom, etc.).

In fact I can't even think of when the last "for lease" office building was built in OKC. It's been a loooong time.

Spec died in the financial crisis. Developers can't get spec buildings built, so unless you have a big tenant in tow -- and even then -- it's darn hard.

Look at how good the economy has been in OKC and how tight the office market is, and there isn't one single office building under construction outside those being built by companies for their own use (Devon, CHK, SandRidge, Paycom, etc.).

In fact I can't even think of when the last "for lease" office building was built in OKC. It's been a loooong time.

Back in the good ole' days pre 2008 you usually saw spec construction when vacancy was around 10-15%.

As of May, Class A Vacancy downtown is 9.9% and about 11% in the suburbs.

There has even been a noticeable slowdown of construction in those hideous "garden office" projects that were so popular in this area last decade.

Spec died in the financial crisis. Developers can't get spec buildings built, so unless you have a big tenant in tow -- and even then -- it's darn hard.

Look at how good the economy has been in OKC and how tight the office market is, and there isn't one single office building under construction outside those being built by companies for their own use (Devon, CHK, SandRidge, Paycom, etc.).

In fact I can't even think of when the last "for lease" office building was built in OKC. It's been a loooong time.

Vince Carrozza.