He would also be incredibly bummed, he just moved down there to work for them and is loving being in a major city after living in OKC for years.

Yeah, it would stink to have to move back to a barn in OKC and live with the farm animals after being in a major city like Fort Worth. Lol.

Yeah, it would stink to have to move back to a barn in OKC and live with the farm animals after being in a major city like Fort Worth. Lol.

Fort Worthless............as my sister who lives there calls it.

Fort Worthless............as my sister who lives there calls it.

The only thing good about Fort Worth is it's next to Dallas.

Fort Worthless............as my sister who lives there calls it.

I like Fort Worth a lot actually, but Fort Worthians shouldn't be dissing OKC because, on its own, Fort Worth isn't that different from OKC. I spend a ton of time in both. Of course, it's really silly to insult any city. Every city has it's plusses and minuses. Harsh criticism often says more about the person leveling it than the place.

Yeah, it would stink to have to move back to a barn in OKC and live with the farm animals after being in a major city like Fort Worth. Lol.

He's living downtown there and enjoying it, says it's more active and interesting than ours is at the moment.

A large part of it may be the presence of a Flying Saucer and their 300 kinds of beers within walking distance of his office.

He's living downtown there and enjoying it, says it's more active and interesting than ours is at the moment.

A large part of it may be the presence of a Flying Saucer and their 300 kinds of beers within walking distance of his office.

Tapwerks and McNellie's both have quite a selection...Not quite 300, but enough that you wouldn't have to drink a beer twice all month if you didn't want to. Now, Texas gets some great beers we don't, but that's another story.

Tapwerks and McNellie's both have quite a selection...Not quite 300, but enough that you wouldn't have to drink a beer twice all month if you didn't want to. Now, Texas gets some great beers we don't, but that's another story.

Actually McNellies has 350 beers and counting... rivals most beer selections around the country.

He's living downtown there and enjoying it, says it's more active and interesting than ours is at the moment.

A large part of it may be the presence of a Flying Saucer and their 300 kinds of beers within walking distance of his office.

Fort Worth has an interactive downtown with plenty of shopping, restaurants and bars & night life. I went there last March. It is also extremely walkable. Great city. So unfortunate that it's that close to Dallas...

I like Fort Worth myself and if I ever lived in the area, I'd choose that side.

If you like living in Cowtown USA then you will like Ft. Worth. Much more of a cowtown than OKC is. Go out and count the cowboy hats you see there in a day and do the same in OKC and you will understand.

I have hung out in Dallas and Fort Worth, and not sure which one I like better. They're two completely different vibes. Fort Worth is much more laid back than Dallas, probably more so than OKC if you ask me. I guess you do see a lot of cowboy hats, but that' not that big of a deal if you ask me. There's seems to be much more going on in downtown FTW than there is in OKC. It's weird b/c their entertainment districts don't necessarily seem bigger than OKC's, but much more people seem to hang out in at Sundance Square than people do in Bricktown. Hopefully we can get there in the near future.

If you like living in Cowtown USA then you will like Ft. Worth. Much more of a cowtown than OKC is. Go out and count the cowboy hats you see there in a day and do the same in OKC and you will understand.

No doubt. Heck, there were people riding horses for leisure in Fort Worth when I was there...

Some TransCanada news... sort of...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73686.html

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the word on this first rumored tower is that it will be a North American headquarters for an international company, right?

Now, I'm no geographizer, but I think TransCanada's current Calgary, Alberta HQ is still in North America.

So... We're assuming either they're going to have a main HQ in North America and a separate North American HQ also in North America? Or is TransCANADA going to completely move their HQ outside of Canada? If that first part about a North American headquarters is still correct,TransCanada doesn't make sense.

I would agree. it doesn't make sense for it to be TransCanada. Remember, we're getting a pipeline through OK (like most oil companies) at Cushing. If you didn't know already, pretty much every major oil pipeline makes its way through Cushing at some point. But why would someone based in Calgary want to move to a whole new country...especially when Canada is part of the company's name? Pipelines do not equal moving HQ's folks. Otherwise Devon, Chesapeake, Exon, etc. would have HQ's all over the world...and obviously you don't get to call yourself HQ if there are 20 of you. Now, would they maybe open an office for U.S. HQ as a smaller operation? Could be. Moving the whole company....no.

When I first read this article http://newsok.com/chaparral-headquarters-expanding-in-oklahoma-city/article/3655497 , I was like ok, its Chaparral Energy thats building headquarters downtown, then I kept reading, lol.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the word on this first rumored tower is that it will be a North American headquarters for an international company, right?

Now, I'm no geographizer, but I think TransCanada's current Calgary, Alberta HQ is still in North America.

So... We're assuming either they're going to have a main HQ in North America and a separate North American HQ also in North America? Or is TransCANADA going to completely move their HQ outside of Canada? If that first part about a North American headquarters is still correct,TransCanada doesn't make sense.

I honestly cannot understand why people keep getting confused on this. No one has said an international company is planning to build a tower downtown, nor has anyone implied it that I know of.

Some of you keep conflating two different reports: one which said a company is planning to build their new, corporate headquarters downtown, and another that said the Chamber is attempting to bring an international company to OKC. They aren't the same. Nothing says that if the Chamber is successful in their efforts, then that international company will be building a tower downtown (nothing even says they'll necessarily locate downtown).

I honestly cannot understand why people keep getting confused on this. No one has said an international company is planning to build a tower downtown, nor has anyone implied it that I know of.

Some of you keep conflating two different reports: one which said a company is planning to build their new, corporate headquarters downtown, and another that said the Chamber is attempting to bring an international company to OKC. They aren't the same. Nothing says that if the Chamber is successful in their efforts, then that international company will be building a tower downtown (nothing even says they'll necessarily locate downtown).

calm down, most people call this SPECULATION....

calm down, most people call this SPECULATION....

No, G. Walker, this isn't speculation. This is simply having established information incorrect and conflating two pieces of news. Speculation is fine; persistently ignoring what people have said is not.

No, G. Walker, this isn't speculation. This is simply having established information incorrect and conflating two pieces of news. Speculation is fine; persistently ignoring what people have said is not.

This.

I honestly cannot understand why people keep getting confused on this. No one has said an international company is planning to build a tower downtown, nor has anyone implied it that I know of.

Some of you keep conflating two different reports: one which said a company is planning to build their new, corporate headquarters downtown, and another that said the Chamber is attempting to bring an international company to OKC. They aren't the same. Nothing says that if the Chamber is successful in their efforts, then that international company will be building a tower downtown (nothing even says they'll necessarily locate downtown).

This. People jump the rumor bandwagon too much.

One of the things adding to the confusion is the suggestion by Steve that there might be two downtown towers in the offing and many instantly made the leap to tie that in with the chamber's efforts.

I agree, his purposeful comments are fueling much of the over-zealous rumor mill.

Tapwerks and McNellie's both have quite a selection...Not quite 300, but enough that you wouldn't have to drink a beer twice all month if you didn't want to. Now, Texas gets some great beers we don't, but that's another story.

I haven't been to McNellie's, but I may need to try it out. Tapwerks is a good idea, but I end up getting annoyed with them. It seems that every time I go there, they're out of my first three or four picks.

I honestly cannot understand why people keep getting confused on this. No one has said an international company is planning to build a tower downtown, nor has anyone implied it that I know of.

Some of you keep conflating two different reports: one which said a company is planning to build their new, corporate headquarters downtown, and another that said the Chamber is attempting to bring an international company to OKC. They aren't the same. Nothing says that if the Chamber is successful in their efforts, then that international company will be building a tower downtown (nothing even says they'll necessarily locate downtown).


No, G. Walker, this isn't speculation. This is simply having established information incorrect and conflating two pieces of news. Speculation is fine; persistently ignoring what people have said is not.


One of the things adding to the confusion is the suggestion by Steve that there might be two downtown towers in the offing and many instantly made the leap to tie that in with the chamber's efforts.

Is that just speculation? I feel like I read that either here or otherwise from a credible source, but maybe not. Obviously I can't speak first-hand to it, but then again it's been pretty widely discussed throughout the thread.

I tried to end this speculation last night.
I had a class where Russell Claus (City Planning Director) was our main speaker and during his presentation he mentioned how the city's CBD planning has had to adapt to the possibility of a "potential" Headquarters moving to OKC. Later another class member and I asked who was building a tower downtown? Without hesitation and with a slight smirk he said "What tower? There is no tower." The end. I tried guys but my efforts failed....... Let the speculation continue!

They're so tight lipped it must be - project X.

I don't know why we have to argue about whether something is speculation in a thread specifically dedicated to speculation. I also don't understand why some are feeling the need to attack people for participating in speculation or offering up possibilities here. This is exactly what it is for.

I would suggest that if you don't like speculation or discussion of rumors, then stay off any threads that are designed (and titled) specifically for that type of discussion. The best part about having such a thread is that it can help keep the rumors off threads dedicated to supported and sourced development news.

Everything posted up to this point IS rumor, speculation, conjecture, and/or wishful thinking in the spirit for which the thread was created and it should and will continue to be just that until a name is attached to a confirmed project.

They're so tight lipped it must be - project X.

It is standard proceedure, especially with companies that have not yet mad announcement, to not reveal information about new companies coming in. We learned our lession with Harley Davidson in the early 1990's. We were on the short list for a new plant (top 3 cities) and word leaked out. They immediately took us off the list entirely.

It's AF... So, I'm inclined to believe the info coming out about them....

It's AF... So, I'm inclined to believe the info coming out about them....

You're saying you know it's AF or that that's who you think it'll be?

I don't know why we have to argue about whether something is speculation in a thread specifically dedicated to speculation. I also don't understand why some are feeling the need to attack people for participating in speculation or offering up possibilities here. This is exactly what it is for.

I would suggest that if you don't like speculation or discussion of rumors, then stay off any threads that are designed (and titled) specifically for that type of discussion. The best part about having such a thread is that it can help keep the rumors off threads dedicated to supported and sourced development news.

Everything posted up to this point IS rumor, speculation, conjecture, and/or wishful thinking in the spirit for which the thread was created and it should and will continue to be just that until a name is attached to a confirmed project.

I can understand someone correcting someone else on a misperception of an already stated fact but I agree with you for the most part.

You're saying you know it's AF or that that's who you think it'll be?

If you were a shareholder in AF you'd know where he is getting his information from. But, I guess you're not.

If you were a shareholder in AF you'd know where he is getting his information from. But, I guess you're not.

Very cryptic... What does it mean?

Very cryptic... What does it mean?

Shareholder ??? AF is privately owned isn't it ???

Even privately owned companies have shareholders.

If you were a shareholder in AF you'd know where he is getting his information from. But, I guess you're not.

Haha, no, I'm not. I haven't even graduated high school yet, being a shareholder of AF or any company for that matter is the last thing on my mind. But, I guess you are so please explain to me.

I don't know why we have to argue about whether something is speculation in a thread specifically dedicated to speculation. I also don't understand why some are feeling the need to attack people for participating in speculation or offering up possibilities here. This is exactly what it is for.

I would suggest that if you don't like speculation or discussion of rumors, then stay off any threads that are designed (and titled) specifically for that type of discussion. The best part about having such a thread is that it can help keep the rumors off threads dedicated to supported and sourced development news.

Everything posted up to this point IS rumor, speculation, conjecture, and/or wishful thinking in the spirit for which the thread was created and it should and will continue to be just that until a name is attached to a confirmed project.

Well said.

Did Devon shareholders know about Devon tower ahead of time, or even before it was publicly announced?

Shareholders dont run companies, they invest in the stock and vote on who will represent the Board. Decisions are decided by the Board and executed by the Executive Team (hence, their Executive this or that titles). The Board decides how to invest corporate dollars and it is up to the CEO to implement it, along with his other chiefs on his team.

ok, now we know corporate 101.

A shareholder in a private company knows way more about corporate decisions than the shareholder of a public company.

A shareholder in a private company knows way more about corporate decisions than the shareholder of a public company.

A private company 'shareholder' is the ownership group.........they are called the 'Owners'.

AFLAC is a company similar to AF and they have an 18 story (246') headquarters building in Columbus, GA. I could go for a new 18 story building downtown (just not like this one).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/4001258029_4101a25366.jpg

Any indication that they're interested in moving, much less to OKC?

Any indication that they're interested in moving, much less to OKC?

No they are not moving. I am just saying here is company in the same business and they have an 18 story tower while AF is in the 3 buildings. If AF moves downtown and builds an owner-occupied tower it might also be about 18 stories. That's all.

Gotchya. I didn't catch that that was what you were getting at. If there's any case to be made for moving into a nice corporate tower it should be made making a Devon/Chesapeake comparison.

Chesapeake is to Devon as AF is to _______.

Answer - AFLAC.

im sure Aflac has significant operations in Atlanta and other cities, and that the Columbus HQ is just that - executive offices.

AF, on the other hand, has ALL of their ops in OKC including exec. So that probably would substantiate a building taller than 18 floors.

im sure Aflac has significant operations in Atlanta and other cities, and that the Columbus HQ is just that - executive offices.

AF, on the other hand, has ALL of their ops in OKC including exec. So that probably would substantiate a building taller than 18 floors.

I am pretty sure everything is operated out of Columbus (The 'C' in AFLAC) except for their local agents in the US and Japan, and their Cancer Research Center at Emory University. AF has about 1,000 OKC based employees so they could easily fit an 18 story tower and it isn't like the insurance industry is subject to growth spurts requiring large jumps in employment numbers.

If it is a MidFirst/AF joint tower then it would be much taller.

AF's current buildings at 2000 Classen are 10 stories, 8 stories and 7 stories for a total of 25 stories + basements. According to the county there is about 316,000 square feet. How does that compare to the other DT buildings?
Don

AF's current buildings at 2000 Classen are 10 stories, 8 stories and 7 stories for a total of 25 stories + basements. According to the county there is about 316,000 square feet. How does that compare to the other DT buildings?
Don

That would depend entirely on how wide and long the building's floors are, 18 floors of Devon tower would be enough to replace all their space and leave room to grow.

Maybe they'd also consolidate their other banking and Oil companies in the same building ? That would justify a much larger facility.

I've already commented on that possibility....it doesn't make sense to combine them...they don't work together...they don't even do similar things. The trouble you run into with that is if you squeeze together, then when a department grows, they end up in weird various points in the building. So if American Fidelity is on floors 2-10, and the bank is on 11-15, AF grows and takes over 16. You're not much better off than being in different buildings.

BTW - i've been to several lunch events with AF IT folks over the years. Never has a single employee ever been told about any plans for anything like this. And the IT would HAVE to be involved because they would be planning the infrastructure of the place. So they would need to be involved from day 1 of the architects. You CANNOT build a building without including IT infrastructure for cabling, power, network, etc. So as it stands, i still see no reason to believe it's AF.

I've already commented on that possibility....it doesn't make sense to combine them...they don't work together...they don't even do similar things. The trouble you run into with that is if you squeeze together, then when a department grows, they end up in weird various points in the building. So if American Fidelity is on floors 2-10, and the bank is on 11-15, AF grows and takes over 16. You're not much better off than being in different buildings.

BTW - i've been to several lunch events with AF IT folks over the years. Never has a single employee ever been told about any plans for anything like this. And the IT would HAVE to be involved because they would be planning the infrastructure of the place. So they would need to be involved from day 1 of the architects. You CANNOT build a building without including IT infrastructure for cabling, power, network, etc. So as it stands, i still see no reason to believe it's AF.

Yes, and Devon's IT was moved off site.......so much for IT in control. I've been in IT for 32 years and have seen it all. How many different companies are located in lets say Chase ? I'd bet several and i'm sure there are issues with expansion and contraction of office space. It's not like the first time for any floor situation like that. For that matter, consolidation would be more profitable. The state agencies are going through an IT consolidation as we speak within State Finance.

Actually Devon did plan it.....they had several floors. It made sense for them to be able to create a hardended facility so they moved. But they were still intimently involved. In fact, I would say IT pushed for the move rather than administration.

You assume that the companies don't already make use of their synnergies where it makes sense. Even if you have multiple companies around town, you can still have centralized IT, HR, Accounting, etc. However, putting the dispirate companies in one building does NOT equate to consolidation of those resources if they aren't already. You simply have one roof with islands under it. That is not efficient.

I've already commented on that possibility....it doesn't make sense to combine them...they don't work together...they don't even do similar things. The trouble you run into with that is if you squeeze together, then when a department grows, they end up in weird various points in the building. So if American Fidelity is on floors 2-10, and the bank is on 11-15, AF grows and takes over 16. You're not much better off than being in different buildings.

BTW - i've been to several lunch events with AF IT folks over the years. Never has a single employee ever been told about any plans for anything like this. And the IT would HAVE to be involved because they would be planning the infrastructure of the place. So they would need to be involved from day 1 of the architects. You CANNOT build a building without including IT infrastructure for cabling, power, network, etc. So as it stands, i still see no reason to believe it's AF.

No offense, but having had an inside view of the Devon project, the average IT person would not be involved in planning for a new headquarters. Department head? Yes. But they would be under orders not to discuss the project with co-workers and even family. Once the book by Jack and I is released later this year on Devon tower, I think those who read it will have a better grasp on how these things are done. There is so much being said in this thread that obviously involves speculation, guessing, etc. And I understand that.

Yes, and Devon's IT was moved off site.......so much for IT in control. I've been in IT for 32 years and have seen it all. How many different companies are located in lets say Chase ? I'd bet several and i'm sure there are issues with expansion and contraction of office space. It's not like the first time for any floor situation like that. For that matter, consolidation would be more profitable. The state agencies are going through an IT consolidation as we speak within State Finance.

IT was not moved "off site" a data storage facility was moved off site .. tons of IT people will be in the new building

the average IT person would not be involved in planning for a new headquarters. Department head? Yes. But they would be under orders not to discuss the project with co-workers and even family.

100% true.

I've managed a bunch of new office projects for a large financial services company and the IT department was also under me. All the advance planning -- including IT and telecom infrastructure -- was done by the engineers, construction company and outside IT specialists that we contracted with. The only time the full-time IT staff became involved was near move-in time after most the key decisions had already been made.

Also, before there are public announcements of sensitive company information (like a relocation or merger) usually only the senior management team -- about a dozen key executives -- are included. They may tell a few key people on their staff but only on a strict need-to-know basis.

I had VP's reporting to me that never knew a lot of big company news until it was made public.

IT was not moved "off site" a data storage facility was moved off site .. tons of IT people will be in the new building

All that I know of them is what I read, and it said 4 floors removed for 2 reasons. 1) office configuration change and 2) data center located at WRWA.

All that I know of them is what I read, and it said 4 floors removed for 2 reasons. 1) office configuration change and 2) data center located at WRWA.

right the data center was moved ... that in no way = all IT ...

most of the IT will be in the tower ... including help desk ...

I've already commented on that possibility....it doesn't make sense to combine them...they don't work together...they don't even do similar things. The trouble you run into with that is if you squeeze together, then when a department grows, they end up in weird various points in the building. So if American Fidelity is on floors 2-10, and the bank is on 11-15, AF grows and takes over 16. You're not much better off than being in different buildings.

BTW - i've been to several lunch events with AF IT folks over the years. Never has a single employee ever been told about any plans for anything like this. And the IT would HAVE to be involved because they would be planning the infrastructure of the place. So they would need to be involved from day 1 of the architects. You CANNOT build a building without including IT infrastructure for cabling, power, network, etc. So as it stands, i still see no reason to believe it's AF.

I mean, that's just kind of silly. Of course it would still be better than having to drive to another building or walk across a street. The difference in time between going 5 floors and 20 floors in an elevator is insignificant. Even so, if that is a genuine problem, you simply start FF at floors 2-10 and start AF on the top floor and work down and leave expansion room in between. Once you outgrow the building, you start pushing parts of your smaller operation (FF) out of the building into leased office space.

roy williams is giving a Chamber update at tomorrows council meeting ... it should be interesting

right the data center was moved ... that in no way = all IT ...

most of the IT will be in the tower ... including help desk ...

Makes sense.....I always liked it when my users were in the same building. At times i'd work with users world wide and it could get painful.