yep!

here is what I realistically see happening in the next few years:

ONE 40+ story skyscraper
27 story CC Hotel
25 story Sandridge Tower
I would add one more!But if there were a "like" button here on OKCTalk like there is on Facebook,I would like this!

I personally don't want to see any high-rise residential. Why should be we like other cities? I would rather have more residential developments like The Edge and Level with massive shiny office towers in the background! That would be something!

G.Walker,I take it your not a big fan of the Miami skyline?

No, I am more of a fan of office tower skylines like Houston, Philadelphia, and LA. Not high rise condo skylines like Miami, Austin, and Vancouver.

I personally don't want to see any high-rise residential. Why should be we like other cities? I would rather have more residential developments like The Edge and Level with massive shiny office towers in the background! That would be something!

Dislike. You wouldn't want this? Museum Tower - Dallas - 42 Floors - 560'

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/museum_towers_3.jpg

Sign me up

^^Looking into OKC's future?I bet we see a residential tower about this height going up about the same time as the mystery tower!

Dislike. You wouldn't want this? Museum Tower - Dallas - 42 Floors - 560'

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/museum_towers_3.jpg

Sign me up

that is a beautiful high rise condo, but I would rather have 4 of these below, to that 1 high rise condo:

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/06/44/31/1721964/0/628x471.jpg

Does anyone have any insight on the vacancy rates of Park Harvey Apartments, Regency Tower, Founders Tower? Are they full? I understand that these tower style condos/apartmets are no where near the neatness of the Museum Tower concept above. But what is the true likelyhood OKC gets a residencial tower downtown. Is the OKC market really ready for a residential tower. I don't know for sure but to me a residential tower seems to be the most speculative of the ideas posted.

Regency is at 97-98 %!

Regency is at 97-98 %!

Wow I had no idea. That is pretty amazing. Maybe a residential tower is not too lofty of an idea after all.

^^Looking into OKC's future?I bet we see a residential tower about this height going up about the same time as the mystery tower!

Didn't you come within a few feet of telling us the exact height of Devon Tower while it was still a rumor?

As for my opinion, its not about height, its about creating a ground level urban environment, with urban corners, and pedestrian interaction. Gosh I am starting to sound like Kerry! :sofa:

Wow I had no idea. That is pretty amazing. Maybe a residential tower is not too lofty of an idea after all.

Maybe Pete or someone knows but I think all of dt residential is doing very well!

As for my opinion, its not about height, its about creating a ground level urban environment, with urban corners, and pedestrian interaction. Gosh I am starting to sound like Kerry! :sofa:

I'm telling you - that is a slippery slope.

Here is a survey done by Price Edwards at the end of 2011.

Properties of interest are highlighted... All are very full:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownapartments.jpg

Yeah,I would take either of those buildings G.Walker posted,both are very nice!

So the lowest on the list is Park Harvey at 89% and they don't even have parking.

Thanks Pete!

Park Harvey has also had to endure the cacophony and mess from the Devon and P180 projects.

That 89% is pretty remarkable, especially given the parking situation as mentioned.

Its possible to have both. It can have the retail on the bottom floor and rise up 40 stories. I think a mix of residential and office towers would make us more attactive to the younger crowd. They can choose between high rise downtown or Deep Deuce.

I think the more options available the more people will want to live here. Kind of like having a larger variety of jobs!

My favorite residential tower is definitely Aqua in Chicago.

http://www.dailytonic.com/aqua-tower-by-gang-architects-chicago/

So maybe a new residential tower might be a mix between condos,apartments and retail?Whats the biggest need?

Its possible to have both. It can have the retail on the bottom floor and rise up 40 stories. I think a mix of residential and office towers would make us more attactive to the younger crowd. They can choose between high rise downtown or Deep Deuce.

I think the more options available the more people will want to live here. Kind of like having a larger variety of jobs!

My favorite residential tower is definitely Aqua in Chicago.

http://www.dailytonic.com/aqua-tower-by-gang-architects-chicago/
ohhh,Aqua is stunning!

IMO, Museum Tower is just flat not that good looking. The last two times I've been to Dallas in the past year, I have thought it to be a very uninteresting building.

That being said, both days it was grey outside...it may be better in the sunlight.

I'm between G. Walker and those wanting a skyscraper residential. I'd rather have two high-rise residential buildings in the 15 to 20 story range (200 to 300 ft...a la The Classen or Mid-America) than one 40 story building or four 5 to 10 story buildings.

My ideal downtown urban environment would consist of one 800ft skyscraper, two 700ft skyscrapers, three 600ft skyscrapers, with the majority of them all glass with a modern curtain wall. But I would have one thrown in there with late 70's box style architecture (I am a fan of these building, don't ask me why). My urban core would be surrounded with mid-rise residential consisting of mostly brick architecture, mostly all 6-10 stories, all with streetcar access and pedestrian friendly walkways, and bicycle lanes.

Basically, I would love to see everything on Classen Curve downtown. Imagine if CHK had built a tower and brought all those businesses downtown...

No doubt,we all know how much money CHK has invested in that area and if they had invested all that into dt it would be an awesome sight,though I like that area of town and what is has turned out to be!

That is amazing to have that high of occupancy rate. I'm baffled. With these occupancy rates it seems it would be easy for a DT grocery store to be successful......but that's for another thread.

You need to go to Philadelphia G.Walker.

Those numbers seem really incredible Pete. Is that normal for a DT our size to have that high of an occupancy rate? Based on those numbers, do you think that a residential tower is imminent?

Keep in mind all these projects are relatively new and our total number of units downtown is still pretty microscopic.

The real test of the market will be when both Level and The Edge open... If all the other properties maintain their occupancy rates (and higher-than-average rents), then I think you'll see a bunch more projects get queued up.

The condo market is a different animal but that seems to be firming up as well. The one for-sale project that was a homerun was the Centennial so that tells me that a well-located project with amenities and views might do well even in the current market. Let's face it, it's the one thing we still don't have: downtown high-rise condos.

So maybe a new residential tower might be a mix between condos,apartments and retail?Whats the biggest need?

ALL of the above! I think condos between $120k-200k would sell. The demand for apartments is very high though. A lot of Health Science and ACM want to live downtown, but there aren't a lot of options.

Does anyone know how the leasing of Level is doing? I heard it is filling fast. I heard that over 250 have applied.

If they start a residential tower now. In 2 years it would be full depending on the rates and how many they have.

It would be awesome if they converted all of City Place and First National into residential.

The lack of parking for those two structures is a big issue.

I'm hoping that once downtown really gets raging that it will finally make financial sense to tear down the eastern sections of the FNC and build a new parking structure, perhaps with a pool and recreation facilities on top. Then, First National Tower would make a perfect hotel or condo project, or a combo of the two.

Steve hasn't posted on this thread in a while,wonder what He's hearing?

The lack of parking for those two structures is a big issue.

I'm hoping that once downtown really gets raging that it will finally make financial sense to tear down the eastern sections of the FNC and build a new parking structure, perhaps with a pool and recreation facilities on top. Then, First National Tower would make a perfect hotel or condo project, or a combo of the two.

NO! The don't need to touch that block! That is the worst idea I have ever heard. They could redo the parking garage to the south of it and make it taller with better access to the First National and add the facilities you suggested. That way you don't see the back of the First National block. Then get rid of the Century Century and build residential there and a parking facility at the base with retail.

Steve hasn't posted on this thread in a while,wonder what He's hearing?

He has disappeared from his blog too! He is up to something! I know it!

NO! The don't need to touch that block! That is the worst idea I have ever heard.

Unless said parking structure had really cool street level retail.

Maybe the new buyers of the Century Center garage are going to buy the First National and convert it into housing. They'll have parking right south of them. (I can dream:smile:)

He has disappeared from his blog too! He is up to something! I know it!

He's writing a book.

He has disappeared from his blog too! He is up to something! I know it!

Yes, he's doing his day job as a reporter plus writing an ambitious book.

At one time, the parking structure south of First National was part of the same ownership. It got spun off in the 80's then the tower donated to charity. Also, I seriously doubt they could just build on top of it as it's older and wasn't built with that idea in mind, unlike the garage Devon bought. In fact, the almost new City Center East garage can't even be expanded.

I'm hearing that the Century Center will be bought by a local group and renovated, but probably not expanded. Just remodel the empty space for office use and keep the parking as-is.


There is a serious need for parking for both City Place and FNC and without it, both will be limited.

the lack of parking for those two structures is a big issue.

I'm hoping that once downtown really gets raging that it will finally make financial sense to tear down the eastern sections of the fnc and build a new parking structure, perhaps with a pool and recreation facilities on top. Then, first national tower would make a perfect hotel or condo project, or a combo of the two.

awful idea!!

if tearing down FNC east(not fnc) .. to build a big garage .. meant that FNC became a hotel/condo tower ... then IMHO it would be 100% worth it

awful idea!!

Pete's not wanting to touch any of the actual tower, just the annexes built at later dates. I'm with Boulder on this one... if a parking garage is all it takes to bring the FNC back to life then I hope it gets done ASAP.

Those annexes are such an eyesore.

At one time, the parking structure south of First National was part of the same ownership. It got spun off in the 80's then the tower donated to charity. Also, I seriously doubt they could just build on top of it as it's older and wasn't built with that idea in mind, unlike the garage Devon bought. In fact, the almost new City Center East garage can't even be expanded.

I'm hearing that the Century Center will be bought by a local group and renovated, but probably not expanded. Just remodel the empty space for office use and keep the parking as-is.


There is a serious need for parking for both City Place and FNC and without it, both will be limited.

I didn't say build on top. Tear both of those parking garages down and start from scratch with something more modern like I said above. That is the best solution. We don't need to touch the street wall we aleady have on Park.

Most people don't understand that the tower itself extends almost half-way down that block. And the far east end is not part of the owner property.

It's the two crappy buildings in the middle that are an eyesore and generally empty. Believe me, a parking garage with ground-floor retail would be an aesthetic improvement over what is there and would finally make the property viable.

The tower doesn't make sense as a modern office building and it can't be a hotel or condos without parking and amenities, which is why it is still floundering while everything around them is surging.

There is the current ownership issue but once that is settled there is going to have to be a bigger plan for that complex otherwise it's going to continue to rot. And be a big hole in the middle of downtown.

Pete's not wanting to touch any of the actual tower, just the annexes built at later dates. I'm with Boulder on this one... if a parking garage is all it takes to bring the FNC back to life then I hope it gets done ASAP.

Let me look on google maps. I might want to recant my statement.

I hope he is talking about the buildings midblock on park. I envisioned the sandstone building on Broadway.

You can keep the street wall on Park, just do it with parking and retail at the bottom. Would be no less dead than the ugly, empty office space currently above.

The Century Center is in the process of being sold, and there are already plans for it which actually takes the parking away from the city and puts it into private hands.

The large garage immediately south of FNC is already nine levels. You really couldn't make it much taller and have it be practical.


The buildings in the center of the CBD are choked for parking and unless the Myriad comes down, I don't see many suitable sites anywhere close.

Here's a link to the diagrams for First National Center:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=9355&p=452231#post452231

shouldn't all this talk about FNC, be in the FNC thread? just sayin...

Most people don't understand that the tower itself extends almost half-way down that block. And the far east end is not part of the owner property.

It's the two crappy buildings in the middle that are an eyesore and generally empty. Believe me, a parking garage with ground-floor retail would be an aesthetic improvement over what is there and would finally make the property viable.

The tower doesn't make sense as a modern office building and it can't be a hotel or condos without parking and amenities, which is why it is still floundering while everything around them is surging.

There is the current ownership issue but once that is settled there is going to have to be a bigger plan for that complex otherwise it's going to continue to rot. And be a big hole in the middle of downtown.

It will be a big mess. The inside of this block is park of the Concourse (underground) that connects the city. It is a walkway that everyone downtown uses on windy/cold/wet days. It serves its purpose and functions. The buildings are a throw back to the 50s and aren't that bad. The building at the corner of Park and Broadway is a beautiful building. They are not empty. Cafe 7 is moving in and there is also retail that faces the street and the inside walkway. If you worked downtown you would see this.

Anyways. This block should not be destroyed for parking. The block to the south is the biggest eyesore! It should be replaced. The streetwall that you want to destroy will not be the same.

Century Center is the biggest blight for downtown! The horrible relationship to the street and the short stature of the building makes it a waste of space. Not to mention the ugly orange color!

The Myriad has parking. Lots of parking!

If you replaced the annex with parking garages you could put residential ammenites on the roof of the parking garage (tennis courts, basketball, swimming pool, garden). Who wouldn't want to lay by the pool 200' above Park Ave?

I just was told from a pretty good source that American Fidelity is going to build a tower. I am told that it will probably be on the corner of 5th & Broadway.

So, if this guy knows then we should be pretty close to hearing something. The dismantling of the last crane will be done tomorrow! I think if news is leaking they are getting close. I think we should hear something by the first of April!

The building at the corner of Park and Broadway is a beautiful building. They are not empty. Cafe 7 is moving in and there is also retail that faces the street and the inside walkway.

The building at Park & Broadway is not part of the First National Center and not what I am talking about.

Cafe 7 is going into the tower... And I'm not saying the retail is empty, I'm saying the office space above it is and has been for a very long time.

I'm very familiar with the First National concourse and what is there; all that could be rebuilt or preserved. It's a far cry from what it once was even in the 80's.


The Cox Center has 900 spaces making it the smallest of the city-owned garages in an area of four complete city blocks. If the Cox was demolished, you could have a much larger vertical garage plus plenty of room for more development.

There you go. Tear down the cox center. Restore Broadway to Reno. Build 3-4 towers there with street front retail and a big fat parking garage than can serve the CBD during the day and bricktown at night. EVEREYONE would be happy. More praking. More development. And more than on street that goes all the way through downtown.

There you go. Tear down the cox center. Restore Broadway to Reno. Build 3-4 towers there with street front retail and a big fat parking garage than can serve the CBD during the day and bricktown at night. EVEREYONE would be happy. More praking. More development. And more than on street that goes all the way through downtown.

we are a long way away from even talking about the cox going away

There you go. Tear down the cox center. Restore Broadway to Reno. Build 3-4 towers there with street front retail and a big fat parking garage than can serve the CBD during the day and bricktown at night. EVEREYONE would be happy. More praking. More development. And more than on street that goes all the way through downtown.

The problem with that is 1) it's not going to happen any time soon and 2) is completely outside the control of anyone that might be interested in redeveloping FNC.

So, unless a developer was to add their own on-site parking, nothing is going to happen to FNC for at least another 10 years.

And that parking study only identifies possible locations nowhere near FNC.


This is a big issue if we ever hope for the middle of the CBD to come back to life.

The biggest problem is the ownership of the building. After that is resolved then we will see some change. Until then nothing will happen.

Anyways! Back to the Mystery Tower or Towers!

So, has anyone heard anything about the Preftakes block? There has to be something happening there! That is what I am going to call Tower 2!

I hope, if the Preftakes block goes, that they can somehow preserve the stonework on the city building. It's really beautiful and I hate to see it end up in a landfill somewhere. I was thinking Sandridge had bought the 5th and Broadway parking lot, so I don't know why that would be the location of a MidContinent tower, but I suppose I could be thinking of a different lot.

we are a long way away from even talking about the cox going away


The problem with that is 1) it's not going to happen any time soon and 2) is completely outside the control of anyone that might be interested in redeveloping FNC.

I know, I know. I was just seeing how far I could take it (speculation/absurdities thread.)

But it does make you realize that, one day, that massive block will be a huge void and its redevelopment will be key to tying everything together.