Wait, what?I've been to several places in the Caribbean, I've been to Hawaii, been to Las Vegas and Kansas City(which is further North the Memphis, but I didn't go anywhere else besides KC and was only there briefly).

Actually, I did go to St. Louis one time to pick up a car my dad bought. Drove it back didn't even stay a day. :/

I've been to Las Vegas, Los Angeles(which I'm moving to in March for acting), St. Louis, Honolulu, Jamaica, Bahamas, Cancun, Tuscon, Dallas, Houston, Tulsa, Little Rock, Jacksonville, Orlando, Port Charlotte, Broken Bow, and that's about it.

Honestly - and I'm not kidding about this - PluPan is one of my favorite posters.


He is kind of the wild card.. it keeps things interestingI'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

To broaden his horizons, let's organize a Kickstarter campaign to send him on a trip way up north to Kansas City.
Well, I've been to Kansas City and St. Louis, but I didn't stay. I literally was on the highway, got off briefly, and then got back and left. :(

It seemed like a beautiful city. I will make it back up that way though. This summer, if I don't end up going to Tehran with my grandfather, I am going to go on a road trip somewhere.

Damn, our mystery tower is being built in Calgary now? What a bummer.

Well, now that you mention it. Here is Devon Tower in Calgary. Notice the skywalk.

http://calgaryofficespace.net/upload/image/calgaryofficespace.net/office/701/400-3rdavenuesw.jpg

Sounds good man. :p

I'm sorry but I never realized how big Calgary was. I was surfing it on street view and I think it's an amazing city that we should look up to. I don't know much about it other than its massive downtown area, but is incredibly dense and a city I would love to live in for a year or so to experience it. The furthest north I've been Memphis, regrettably. I plan to change that though. All of the vacationing I've done has either been in Hawaii or Central America.

I did notice it was geographically restrained, but I think that helps cities in a way.

Get a wool coat and earmuffs.

Memphis..is north of OKC?

Get a wool coat and earmuffs.

Memphis..is north of OKC?Wow. Do I feel stupid. I guess I just never really payed attention to Memphis on a map; I always assumed it was north of OKC. Doesn't seem like I'll have a career in cartography anytime.

Calgary's Skyline, that's impressive...
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608055558625365491&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608039886286291676&pid=15.1&P=0

List of tallest buildings in Calgary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_Calgary)

Interestingly, Calgary has a Devon Tower too.

Canterra Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterra_Tower)

Edit: Dammit, JTF ninja'd me. I really should finish reading a thread before commenting.

So, I used to live in Calgary briefly, which is why I find this discussion marginally intriguing. I'll just say PluPan, and I'll buy you a drink someday at an OKC Talk meetup bc we're all friends here, but sometimes I read your posts and just face palm. Literally just face palm. In this instance you have discovered the secret of Calgary.

P.S. The metro's are nearly the exact same population, but much less geography because of a very strongly enforced GROWTH BOUNDARY combined with a pretty good rail network.
Spartan, I've never lived in Calgary but I was there earlier this year. I came into the city on the highway from the Rockies to stay at the Fairmont downtown. It really does have a very impressive core but I saw a lot of suburban sprawl coming into the city. All of which has little to do with the "Mystery Tower" in OKC. LOL

Every Canadian city I've been to look like that. Even the suburbs of Toronto have mid/hi-rise apartments. ADD: and office towers

As does EVERY suburb of Vancouver.

LJ - you mean Calgary has suburbs, but not sprawl. No rational urbanists want suburbs gone, mainly bc making cities conform for EVERYONE would ruin them. No one size fits all, and variety and diversity of housing types is so important I can't possibly overstate it. As you're driving into Calgary on the Deerfoot Trail or Crowchild Trail etc you pass miles of single family homes (typically very dense like 8-15 DU/acre), lots of affordable apartments, high-end condos, and so on. PUDs are very popular in high growth areas of Canada.


Wow. Do I feel stupid. I guess I just never really payed attention to Memphis on a map; I always assumed it was north of OKC. Doesn't seem like I'll have a career in cartography anytime.

All good. What about Stillwater or Tulsa? Baby steps, then we'll getcha to Kansas City like boitoirich said.

From Steve's chat:

Comment From Gary T
With the redevelopment of Stage Center and the Preftakes block, what block becomes the most important block for a future tower?

Steve Lackmeyer
I think we will likely see mid-rise development at Broadway, E.K. Gaylord and NW 4 across from the YMCA. I think we will see similar development at the former Bank of America drive-through north of the Oklahoma City Museum of Art. Both sites are attractive candidates for high-rises, but again, based on what I'm currently hearing, we're likely looking at mid-rises instead. This leaves us with the SandRidge parking lots at NW 5 and Broadway and the area around the future Core to Shore Park as the only realistic areas left for high-rise development.

Sorry soondoc, looks like you are going to have to deal with midrises...

He completely forgot about the Cox Center, which has specifically targeted by a city study for high rise office development.

There is a good chance the Cox Center will be gone by 2019, which is not that far away.

From Steve's chat:

Comment From Gary T
With the redevelopment of Stage Center and the Preftakes block, what block becomes the most important block for a future tower?

Steve Lackmeyer
I think we will likely see mid-rise development at Broadway, E.K. Gaylord and NW 4 across from the YMCA. I think we will see similar development at the former Bank of America drive-through north of the Oklahoma City Museum of Art. Both sites are attractive candidates for high-rises, but again, based on what I'm currently hearing, we're likely looking at mid-rises instead. This leaves us with the SandRidge parking lots at NW 5 and Broadway and the area around the future Core to Shore Park as the only realistic areas left for high-rise development.

Sorry soondoc, looks like you are going to have to deal with midrises...

Yeah, I'm getting used to the fact that perhaps that is all OKC is capable of. Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises. It is what it is I guess.

Yeah, I'm getting used to the fact that perhaps that is all OKC is capable of. Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises. It is what it is I guess.

Im sure someone will respond with facts to show you that statement is just silly but I have to ask. How do you sleep at night with such disappointment in building heights?

Yeah, I'm getting used to the fact that perhaps that is all OKC is capable of. Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises. It is what it is I guess.

I don't forsee Tulsa getting a new tallest any time in the near future. Austin is another ballgame. Whenever OKC has the growth and hype that Austin is enjoying, then you can complain about OKC not getting 500+ ft residential towers like they are getting.

Yeah, I'm getting used to the fact that perhaps that is all OKC is capable of. Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises. It is what it is I guess.

Which is a completely ignorant statement considering Tulsa has not built a "High rise" in about 30 years. OKC built one two years ago.

Which is a completely ignorant statement considering Tulsa has not built a "High rise" in about 30 years. OKC built one two years ago.

What about the 17 story Cimarex building that opened last year and the 26 story hotel under construction right now on the river?

What about the 17 story Cimarex building that opened last year and the 26 story hotel under construction right now on the river?

If it's not 50 stories, soondoc considers it a mid-rise....lol

Which is a completely ignorant statement considering Tulsa has not built a "High rise" in about 30 years. OKC built one two years ago.

A completely correct statement when they have already have more high rises over 500 feet than OKC. Watch your ignorant statement there Mr. Warren, kind of getting tired of it. It is a fact that OKC only has one building in OKC besides Devon that is 500 feet and that lone building is exactly that. Tulsa does have more taller buildings and it is obvious to any human eyeball it just looks nicer. I want that changed, thus my comments.

A completely correct statement when they have already have more high rises over 500 feet than OKC. Watch your ignorant statement there Mr. Warren, kind of getting tired of it. It is a fact that OKC only has one building in OKC besides Devon that is 500 feet and that lone building is exactly that. Tulsa does have more taller buildings and it is obvious to any human eyeball it just looks nicer. I want that changed, thus my comments.

Then build your own building.

A completely correct statement when they have already have more high rises over 500 feet than OKC. Watch your ignorant statement there Mr. Warren, kind of getting tired of it. It is a fact that OKC only has one building in OKC besides Devon that is 500 feet and that lone building is exactly that. Tulsa does have more taller buildings and it is obvious to any human eyeball it just looks nicer. I want that changed, thus my comments.

You said, "Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises." That is an incorrect statement in that Tulsa is not "building" any high rises by your standards. Yes, they have four buildings 500' of taller and we only have two, but that is not what you said. It may have been what you meant, but it is not what you said.

Then build your own building.

Don't you know its only fun to be irrational and ridiculous when talking about someone else's money. And to blame the city of OKC for building these too short lets you know this person is not someone to pay attention to or get worked up over. The city of Oklahoma City isn't designing or building anything. Its PC/Hines and Clayco/Sterns.

You said, "Sometimes you have to realize we aren't Austin or even Tulsa when it comes to building high rises." That is an incorrect statement in that Tulsa is not "building" any high rises by your standards. Yes, they have four buildings 500' of taller and we only have two, but that is not what you said. It may have been what you meant, but it is not what you said.

The general definitions are that a mid-rise is a 4-10 story building, a high-rise has 11 or more stories, and a super tall is a high-rise taller than 300 meters.

Both Tulsa and Oklahoma City have many high rises.

The general definitions are that a mid-rise is a 4-10 story building, a high-rise has 11 or more stories, and a super tall is a high-rise taller than 300 meters.

Both Tulsa and Oklahoma City have many high rises.

Several pages back there was a big argument between everyone here and Dr. Sooner on what the definition of a midrise and a highrise was. Per his definition, nothing being built in Tulsa or OKC is worth to be called a highrise. They are all midrises.

Also, Tulsa can keep the Cimarex building. It has to be one of the ugliest high-rises I've seen constructed anywhere in recent history in my opinion. A plain glass box is more appealing.

Also, Tulsa can keep the Cimarex building. It has to be one of the ugliest high-rises I've seen constructed anywhere in recent history in my opinion. A plain glass box is more appealing.

I'd box it up and ship it your way if you want. It's pretty terrible.

The general definitions are that a mid-rise is a 4-10 story building, a high-rise has 11 or more stories, and a super tall is a high-rise taller than 300 meters.

Both Tulsa and Oklahoma City have many high rises.

I know that.
You know that.
Soondoc doesn't seem to know that.

Since we are talking about height definitions again here is how I look at it. Mid-rise and high-rise are relative context sensitive definitions. What is a high-rise one city might only be a mid-rise in another city and even within the same city over time the definition changes. Here is how I classify them.

No-rise: 1 floor
Low-rise: 2 to 5 floors
Mid-rise: 5 floors up to the thickness of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
High-rise: Sticks up out of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
Skyscraper: One or more buildings that dominate the skyline when viewed from a distance
SuperTall: Over 1000'

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg.html)

Since we are talking about height definitions again here is how I look at it. Mid-rise and high-rise are relative context sensitive definitions. What is a high-rise one city might only be a mid-rise in another city and even within the same city over time the definition changes. Here is how I classify them.

No-rise: 1 floor
Low-rise: 2 to 5 floors
Mid-rise: 5 floors up to the thickness of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
High-rise: Sticks up out of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
Skyscraper: One or more buildings that dominate the skyline when viewed from a distance
SuperTall: Over 1000'

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg.html)

So, by your definition and your picture, all the Clayco buildings and the Preftakes tower would be high rises, correct?

Not if you carefully take the picture so they aren't in the frame!

Several pages back there was a big argument between everyone here and Dr. Sooner on what the definition of a midrise and a highrise was. Per his definition, nothing being built in Tulsa or OKC is worth to be called a highrise. They are all midrises.

Several pages back on this thread, several pages on the OGE thread, several pages on the Preftakes thread, several pages on the convention center hotel thread... okay, not on that thread, yet.

One source's definition

Skyscraper: Very tall multistoried building. The term originally applied to buildings of 10–20 stories, but now generally describes high-rises of more than 40–50 stories. James Bogardus (1800–1874) built the pioneering Cast Iron Building, New York (1848), with a rigid iron frame providing the main support for upper-floor and roof loads...

Skyscraper - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skyscraper)

So, by your definition and your picture, all the Clayco buildings and the Preftakes tower would be high rises, correct?

Maybe. If they don't rise up out of the urban fabric with noticeable sky on each side then they would just add to the thickness of the urban fabric and be a midrise. Do that enough and Oklahoma Tower, FNC, City Place, and Sandridge drop down into the mid-rise category. The Colcord was OKCs first skyscraper and its not even visible in this picture.

Was the Colcord built before the Pioneer building? Thought I remembered a tour guide saying it was first...

Was the Colcord built before the Pioneer building? Thought I remembered a tour guide saying it was first...

It was completed five years before the Pioneer building

Also, Tulsa can keep the Cimarex building. It has to be one of the ugliest high-rises I've seen constructed anywhere in recent history in my opinion. A plain glass box is more appealing.

It's horrendous. There was so much potential for it given it's location. Tulsa's skyline from the West and South, and even North, could have been changed for the better had the design of the building been more appealing, you know, with more glass and steel. Instead, it looks like a giant hospital. We definitely missed our mark on that one.


I'd box it up and ship it your way if you want. It's pretty terrible.

Quick do it.
And they can't re-gift it.

So, by your definition and your picture, all the Clayco buildings and the Preftakes tower would be high rises, correct?

Generally speaking and by most real definitions low rise is 4 or less, mid-rise is 5 to either 10 or 12 floors, and high-rise is over 10-12. Then there are super talls which are generally considered starting at 300m or roughly 1,000 ft.

Skyscraper is a more subjective and relative term.

The Pioneer Building was built in 1907. Colcord was built in 1910.

I'm starting to wonder if Steve somehow gets paid for every post in this thread... it seems that when I think the "Mystery Tower" has been revealed and the thread should end Steve drops hints at more towers. ;) It's just an exciting time to be in OKC.

Since we are talking about height definitions again here is how I look at it. Mid-rise and high-rise are relative context sensitive definitions. What is a high-rise one city might only be a mid-rise in another city and even within the same city over time the definition changes. Here is how I classify them.

No-rise: 1 floor
Low-rise: 2 to 5 floors
Mid-rise: 5 floors up to the thickness of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
High-rise: Sticks up out of the urban fabric when viewed from a distance
Skyscraper: One or more buildings that dominate the skyline when viewed from a distance
SuperTall: Over 1000'

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/OKCUrbanFabric_zps2a34856b.jpg.html)

Leadership Square 1 is midrise?? (2, yeah..)

The variance usually in the gray area for midrise is whether it ends at 10 floors or at 12, except for general discussion, which is making it wherever a person wants. In general discussion, most things are really subjective anyway.

i would say move JTF's highrise line down to line up with the 14 floor FNC additions and move the skyscraper line down to line up with Leadership Square and it would be absolutely correct. His midrise section is too big and does have a hole in it (at FNC), meaning it should be at FNC given his definition of midrise continual massing.

Highrises are anything above the 14 floor FNC midrise additions (BOK, Leadership Square, Continental, Renaissance, Sheraton, perhaps Dowell) and skyscrapers are above Leadership Square/Continental (Devon, Chase, FNC tower, City Place, OK Tower, Sandridge) given that they have blue sky all around and dominate their section of the skyline (and if alone, would completely dominate the area). Devon is just short of a supertall (only 130 more feet).

All of the new buildings (as currently proposed) would be highrises but not skyscrapers (but would be if not in downtown).

multistoried [/B]building.

You would think that would go without saying. Can't say I've known of too many +900' single story buildings.

It seems most of the "mystery towers" are no longer mysteries.

It seems most of the "mystery towers" are no longer mysteries.

It's more like Mystery Properties.

Sounds like some of the towers are fading into the mist with the drop in oil prices.

Sounds like some of the towers are fading into the mist with the drop in oil prices.

I am not sure what else was a strong possibility other than 5 potential Clayco towers, 499 Sheridan, and the Convention Center hotel. That's 7 towers. Hopefully Clayco does what they said they would do and that all five get built.

I am not sure what else was a strong possibility other than 5 potential Clayco towers, 499 Sheridan, and the Convention Center hotel. That's 7 towers. Hopefully Clayco does what they said they would do and that all five get built.

Clayco seemed to indicate today that their plans are shaky... maybe even to build one residential tower. Right?

Clayco seemed to indicate today that their plans are shaky... maybe even to build one residential tower. Right?

So Clayco may build one office tower and that's it?

So Clayco may build one office tower and that's it?

I think it is just the residential towers that are shaky, but I could be wrong.

This drop in oil prices isn't permanent. I'm betting they'll be on the way back up within a few weeks. After they see that I'm betting they'll start getting back on track

That's hilariously short-sighted. Why would you panic about today's oil prices (no one knows what direction they are heading) for a project that opens in 3 years when people reallllly don't know where oil prices will be?

That's hilariously short-sighted. Why would you panic about today's oil prices (no one knows what direction they are heading) for a project that opens in 3 years when people reallllly don't know where oil prices will be?

It only makes sense if they are just looking for an excuse to not build what they said they would. If three months of depressed oil prices is causing Clayco to rethink the viability of this development, perhaps they shouldn't have proposed it in the first place.

Just had a random memory of me always checking this thread back in College. Any behind the scenes stuff going on about a new potential tower? Other than what has already been announced, of course.

Just had a random memory of me always checking this thread back in College. Any behind the scenes stuff going on about a new potential tower? Other than what has already been announced, of course.

Given the office space market in the city, with two of the larger towers with massive vacancy issues that don’t appear to be resolving in the near future, I seriously doubt we will see a new tower any time soon (except for the Bricktown hotels, that is). I think there is quite an opportunity to build more residential mid-rises, though. I think we will learn a lot from how First National does with their residences.

Can't even get the owner of the largest tower to take of their building.

Given the office space market in the city, with two of the larger towers with massive vacancy issues that don’t appear to be resolving in the near future, I seriously doubt we will see a new tower any time soon (except for the Bricktown hotels, that is). I think there is quite an opportunity to build more residential mid-rises, though. I think we will learn a lot from how First National does with their residences.

any new tower at this point would have to be company specific and filled ..

Most developers now just want new office towers to be 50% pre-leased before they break ground.

The only shot we have in the foreseeable future is OG&E making good on their promise to build a new office tower on the old Stage Center site.

They backed out 6 years ago when the price of oil was $31 a barrel. Oil is doing pretty good now, and the 2022 forecast looks really good, so we will see what happens.

It’s back!