http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/31/news/companies/american_jobs/?hpt=us_c2

Major news coming out that could really slam the state and Tulsa.


Among the moves that American's unions expect include having aircraft flown overseas to low-cost maintenance facilities for the extensive overhaul required for planes on a regular basis. Most U.S. airlines, including United Continental (UAL, Fortune 500), Southwest Airlines (LUV, Fortune 500) and Delta Air Lines (DAL, Fortune 500), already have costly maintenance performed at overseas facilities.


Horwitz said there are two major American-owned facilities doing the heavy maintenance work -- one in Tulsa, Okla., which has 6,500 union members, and another outside of Dallas with 2,200 union members.

Welcome to Union Busting 101. It is American's turn this time.

A.net has a thread on this, of course: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5374565/

Appears 1000 maintenance workers at Alliance Airport in Fort Worth (AFW), American's #2 base and is the one that employees 2200 workers, are apparently getting furloughed today.

Also these details were posted by someone else...


Agents, Reps, Planners - TBD

Fleet Service & Other TWU - Approximately 4,200

Flight Attendants - Approximately 2,300

Management/Support Staff - Approximately 1,400

Mechanics and Related - Approximately 4,600

Pilots - Approximately 400

Total - Approximately 13,000

If media reports are true that the AFW base gets axed...that would mean we could see up to 2,400 people at Tulsa getting furloughed as well.

Wow, that article says that AA is the only major carrier that does it's maintenance in the U.S and I'm sure that is the main thing they plan to change through bankruptcy.

Shipping most jobs overseas to cut costs could devastate Tulsa.

Wow, that article says that AA is the only major carrier that does it's maintenance in the U.S and I'm sure that is the main thing they plan to change through bankruptcy.

Shipping most jobs overseas to cut costs could devastate Tulsa.

The article isn't 100% correct. Most of the major airlines have large maintenance bases, but they tend to not handle the longer and more extensive C & D Checks (essentially complete rebuild of the air frames). Delta I know still has their major TechOps base at Atlanta. US Airways I believe still has a base at PIT, even though the hub is long gone. Those are two that come right to mind. However, I do think most domestic work is either the A & B checks, or line checks that can be done overnight or during downtime for the aircraft.

We have got to find ways to keep these high skilled jobs in our nation and bring back some of the jobs we have lost.

Tulsa World is now reporting the same numbers shown in post #2:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=45&articleid=20120201_45_0_AMRCor668203

We have got to find ways to keep these high skilled jobs in our nation and bring back some of the jobs we have lost.

Yeah, by preventing cash-rich corporations from going through bankruptcy - as nothing more than a wink and a nod in a process to bust labor unions and pass the pension buck.

I agree with the Pat Buchanan's on the right and the Bernie Sanders' on the left, that this stuff is anti-American, possibly criminal, and needs to be stopped. End the tax cuts that actually give business incentives to move out of the country, thereby sacrificing American jobs for higher profits and all in the name of so-called, "free trade."

We have got to find ways to keep these high skilled jobs in our nation and bring back some of the jobs we have lost.

Start paying higher air fares? Current air fare levels can't support these skilled workers and the wages they are paid.

Yeah, by preventing cash-rich corporations from going through bankruptcy as nothing more than a wink in a process to bust labor unions and pass the pension buck.

Pretty much. Granted the use of the bankruptcy court by the airline industry has been nearly text book since US Airways made its first trip in. Since then United, Delta, and Northwest all used the method for union busting. Heck, I guess you could say it all started back with Frank Lorenzo in the 1980s, who became banned by the DOT from ever holding a leadership position in the airline industry after he gutted Continental, Eastern, People Express, New York Air and Frontier I.

I'm all for getting rid of unions, but this is gonna suck for Tulsa.

I'm all for getting rid of unions, but this is gonna suck for Tulsa.

You're for getting rid of unions? Ronald Reagan, while praising the organizing of workers at the Gdansk shipyards in communist Poland said that a hallmark for a democracy was the ability for workers to form free-trade unions.

Don't you like the idea of weekends? The 8-hour day? We have so much to be thankful to organized labor for. Are they perfect? No. Are corporations perfect? No. America's greatest time of prosperity was when union wages gave us a huge middle class, corporations didn't have free reign and still had some semblance of American pride.

If they lose 2,000+ jobs, it's going to suck for the entire state.

If they lose 2,000+ jobs, it's going to suck for the entire state.

Absolutely. The Tulsa/OKC "thing" is off when we're talking about gaining or losing jobs. The state rises and falls with both. This could be really, really bad for Oklahoma.

Metro, The more I've thought about your post, the more frustated I have become at America's lack of education on organized labor. It's one thing to be against union activity here or there for whatever reason - but getting rid of Unions? As I mentioned above, Ronald Reagan called unions one of the most elemental of human rights. If AMR makes a decision to move Tulsa jobs, don't blame the union - blame American Airlines and their union busting techniques that have been shameful.

Reagan On Unions (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/25/146460/flashback-reagan-union-right/)

orwN4WKhriw

American is merely doing what all the other major carriers have already done.

American is merely doing what all the other major carriers have already done.

Doesn't make it right.

But it is a reality of their competitive marketplace.

Metro, The more I've thought about your post, the more frustated I have become at America's lack of education on organized labor. It's one thing to be against union activity here or there for whatever reason - but getting rid of Unions? As I mentioned above, Ronald Reagan called unions one of the most elemental of human rights. If AMR makes a decision to move Tulsa jobs, don't blame the union - blame American Airlines and their union busting techniques that have been shameful.

Reagan On Unions (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/25/146460/flashback-reagan-union-right/)

orwN4WKhriw

Unions are the downfall for manufacturing and many other industries in the US. Don't even get me started on how Unions have caused public schools to fall behind all other countries!

The problem with unions is the quality of service. People doing bad jobs don't get fired, and it keeps hard workers from being rewarded. It has become a socialist utopia! Everyone gets the same no matter what they do!

AMR says it is completely closing the Alliance maintenance facility in Ft. Worth, shedding 2,200 jobs.

Unions are the downfall for manufacturing and many other industries in the US. Don't even get me started on how Unions have caused public schools to fall behind all other countries!

The problem with unions is the quality of service. People doing bad jobs don't get fired, and it keeps hard workers from being rewarded. It has become a socialist utopia! Everyone gets the same no matter what they do!

I think one...we need to watch about taking this thread completely off topic in a union debate. However, I approach the issue as there are some unions that do a lot of good and there are some that don't do anything and cause negative effects. The airline industry is a unique animal and unions have done good in ensuring pilot/crew fatigue is addressed and satisfactory working conditions are present for ramp crew and others. They can cause an issue though when it comes to achieving cost savings to meet new economic challenges. US Airways right now still has a divided pilots and flight attendants group. However, the FAs have recently reached an agreement to finally merger the larger original US Airways chapter and the smaller old America West chapter together. The pilots though are still divided, thanks in part to the original US Airways crew being vastly more senior and much larger than the old America West crew. The pilots remaining split reduce the ability having an efficient schedule with aircraft and the ability to move flight crews around in the network.

They do protect people though especially in this climate. There is a high probably American is going to be bought out by US Airways. There are a lot of senior crews flying 777s that could very well get bumped out for more senior US Airways pilots. The unions though will, ideally, work together to handle the integration of the seniority for the pilots. Much like the Northwest/Delta merger. You had he risk of Delta pilots jumping in and bumping Northwest guys out of the 747...but I believe they fenced the 747s off so Delta pilots couldn't move into those slots for a few years.

There are plenty of negatives and good things when it comes to unions...it all comes down to how effective they membership makes them.

Just reported the plan is to cut 2,100 to 2,850 jobs in Tulsa:

http://www.newson6.com/story/16652549/american-airlines-ceo-wants-to-cut-13000-jobs?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Just reported the plan is to cut 2,100 to 2,850 jobs in Tulsa:

http://www.newson6.com/story/16652549/american-airlines-ceo-wants-to-cut-13000-jobs?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

My earlier guestimate was right between that...not good though. These are high paying jobs that are going to hit the economy pretty rough.

This makes me sick.

Wow.

This has the potential to be really devastating for Tulsa, and yes we in OKC will feel it.

Does anyone know if they will offer early retirement, incentives for voluntarily leaving, etc.

Looks like a lot of those laid off may move to OKC:

http://www.newson6.com/story/16654729/city-leaders-say-tulsa-state-can-absorb-laid-off-american-workers?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Mary Smith leads the Oklahoma Aerospace Alliance and she's confident American's layoffs will be someone else's new employees.

"I know there's a place for them in the state. One of the concerns we should have in Tulsa is that we want to keep them here. Boeing is growing in Oklahoma City and Tinker is constantly saying they can't get the talent they need. So they'll stay in Oklahoma, just not in Tulsa," Smith said.

This will be tough for Tulsa, there's no doubt about it. I have a feeling the effects will be similar to Boeing leaving Wichita.

My heart goes out to all AA families across the country as they face the oncoming struggle.

Wichita will lose about the same amount of jobs: 2,100.

AMR employs about 6,500 in Tulsa so there should still be about 4,000 left. However, there is a good chance more of those jobs will be lost down the road, as has been the trend for some time now.

Does anyone know if they will offer early retirement, incentives for voluntarily leaving, etc.

Mostly likely no. The window for that was before Chapter 11. The only fall back is any plan the unions would have had for them.

Wichita will lose about the same amount of jobs: 2,100.

AMR employs about 6,500 in Tulsa so there should still be about 4,000 left. However, there is a good chance more of those jobs will be lost down the road, as has been the trend for some time now.

I think TUL is the last major maintenance base now except for some smaller line facilities in like New York and LA. Kansas City was the last one they shut down and most of that work came to TUL and AFW. Now with AFW gone, TUL is the last. That should have them in a good position to remain open, but they can probably still get hit. Of course the wildcard in all this is who is going to try to take over AMR. US Airways, Delta, and TPG are all interested in American. Delta more than likely is just trying to prevent a US Airways/American merger. TPG is a big investment group that would either assist with a US/AA integration or work to keep AA independent. If consolidation is the path, I would expect AMR to dump as much as they can in Chapter 11 before securing a deal with US Airways.

For those that aren't away, AMR is more than just American Airlines...here are all the subsidiaries...

American Airlines
AA Real Estate Holding
Admirals Club, Inc.
American Airlines de Mexico, S.A.
American Airlines de Venezuela, S.A.
American Airlines Marketing Services LLC
American Airlines Realty (NYC) Holdings, Inc.
American Airlines Vacations LLC
American Aviation Supply LLC
Packcall Limited
Texas Aero Engine Services, L.L.C, dba TAESL
AMR Eagle Holding Corporation
American Eagle Airlines Inc. a regional feeder airline for AA
Eagle Aviation Services
Executive Airlines Inc., operating American Eagle's ATR aircraft fleet
AMR owns a 20% share of Aeroperlas

I bolded the two regional subsidiaries of AMR. There has been long standing rumors that they will sell them off. Executive is leaving the DFW hub and will go back to operating only in the MIA and SJU hubs (San Juan PR). Wouldn't be shocked to see that one spun off. American Eagle will likely get spun off much like how Continental spun ExpressJet off. At least once they get the scope release and costs down that are needed. Now American Eagle is not the same as American Connection. Those are different airlines operating under the American brand much like other airline agreements. Eagle is wholly owned and an airline itself.

It will be interesting to see if (when?) AA is bought out by USAir if they keep the Tulsa maintenance base. They could decide to just outsource all the maintenance like the other major airlines. Hopefully they streamline things and are able to keep and eventually expand the Tulsa base.

This will be tough for Tulsa, there's no doubt about it. I have a feeling the effects will be similar to Boeing leaving Wichita.

My heart goes out to all AA families across the country as they face the oncoming struggle.

As far as the feelings of Wichita, it also had the affects of losing the name Boeing (which had been a cornerstone in the community for decades though had been shrinking as a presence there by the time it left) and the political backlash of politicians backing the company for years in contract bids then get backstabed.

End the tax cuts that actually give business incentives to move out of the country, thereby sacrificing American jobs for higher profits and all in the name of so-called, "free trade."

What tax-cuts are these?

What tax-cuts are these?


A big one is that healthcare is a government run service in most countries where here the cost is paid for largely by employers.

What tax-cuts are these?


Remove Incentives to Ship Jobs Overseas


Taxes: Current law allows companies to defer paying taxes on their overseas income indefinitely while deducting many of the expenses associated with moving offshore – this provides a double subsidy to U.S. companies that ship work overseas, effectively penalizing those companies that keep jobs in the U.S. Ending overseas tax breaks would generate an additional $7 to 12 billion a year in tax revenue and eliminate the perverse incentive to move work abroad to avoid paying taxes.

Public Contracts and Subsidies: Many companies that ship work overseas receive billions of dollars worth of government procurement contracts, subsidies and state and local tax abatements. These taxpayer-financed benefits usually come with very few strings attached, allowing companies to skim additional profits by performing publicly funded work overseas. Laws at the local, state and federal level should be reformed to ensure our taxpayer dollars are not subsidizing the destruction of American jobs.

Currency: A number of U.S. trading partners – China in particular – manipulate the value of their currency relative to the dollar to give their exports to the U.S. an artificial cost advantage, while making American products more expensive. This puts American producers and workers at an impossible cost disadvantage, effectively shutting them out of export markets and undermining their competitiveness at home. The U.S. must take immediate and aggressive action to ensure that the dollar is appropriately valued and withdraw trade benefits from countries that insist on manipulating their currency to unfair advantage, in violation of international trade rules.

Trade Laws: Domestic trade laws enable the government to redress unfair trade practices that give an illegitimate advantage to overseas production. These laws were intended to provide the first line of defense for American producers and workers, yet they are very poorly enforced. The World Trade Organization has weakened our ability to use these laws, and on-going trade negotiations may undermine these laws even further. We must vigorously enforce our domestic trade laws, defend them from challenge, and work to strengthen them in the future.

Trade Agreements: Trade deals such as the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) create new rights, but no responsibilities, for companies that ship jobs overseas. NAFTA contains strong legal protections for companies investing abroad and guaranteed access for their products into the U.S. market. But NAFTA provides no comparable protections for the rights of workers and the environment, allowing companies to escape their international obligations by shipping work overseas. We must fundamentally reform flawed trade rules to hold companies accountable for respecting workers’ rights no matter where they produce.

Exporting America - Outsourcing Solutions (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/exportingamerica/outsourcing_solutions.cfm)

This is all very relevant as to why we are losing these AMR jobs.

I think for the most part that Unions are there to do good, but you can't blame companies for wanting to go oversees when you look at the sweetheart healthcare deals and ridiculous pension/retirement funds out there that they have to deal with. Plus you know it says a lot when you can make your product overseas, pay for cost of shipping, and still save yourself hundreds of millions of dollars like the bay bridge project http://www.npr.org/2011/09/16/140515737/california-turns-to-china-for-new-bay-bridge

And on a side note, my boss works out of new york city, and says that there are teachers up there that are terrible and should be fired but since they are union, they can't fire them, so they sit around in a building all day. This too http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/rubber_room_dirty_old_man_t4OA6Bw25idPYynCnVJHyO WTF! Why not fire these poeple and use that money to pay the good teachers more. I just don't understand that mentality.

Wow.

This has the potential to be really devastating for Tulsa, and yes we in OKC will feel it.

Does anyone know if they will offer early retirement, incentives for voluntarily leaving, etc.

Historically, AMR has offered early retirements and incentives for leaving prior to doing layoffs. But I don't know if they will in this instance.

[indent] Remove Incentives to Ship Jobs Overseas


Taxes: Current law allows companies to defer paying taxes on their overseas income indefinitely while deducting many of the expenses associated with moving offshore – this provides a double subsidy to U.S. companies that ship work overseas, effectively penalizing those companies that keep jobs in the U.S. Ending overseas tax breaks would generate an additional $7 to 12 billion a year in tax revenue and eliminate the perverse incentive to move work abroad to avoid paying taxes.

Let's look at this first one. I work for a company that operates in 87 countires. They pay taxes on income earned in those 86 foreign countires. 75% of all their revenue is generated outside the US. If they never bring these profits back to the US why do you think the US government is entitled to any of that money?

Taxes: Current law allows companies to defer paying taxes on their overseas income indefinitely while deducting many of the expenses associated with moving offshore – this provides a double subsidy to U.S. companies that ship work overseas, effectively penalizing those companies that keep jobs in the U.S. Ending overseas tax breaks would generate an additional $7 to 12 billion a year in tax revenue and eliminate the perverse incentive to move work abroad to avoid paying taxes.

This will likely only achieve worldwide companies headquartered in the US to move their headquarters out of the US and maybe leave a regional segment.

Remove Incentives to Ship Jobs Overseas


Taxes: Current law allows companies to defer paying taxes on their overseas income indefinitely while deducting many of the expenses associated with moving offshore – this provides a double subsidy to U.S. companies that ship work overseas, effectively penalizing those companies that keep jobs in the U.S. Ending overseas tax breaks would generate an additional $7 to 12 billion a year in tax revenue and eliminate the perverse incentive to move work abroad to avoid paying taxes.

Public Contracts and Subsidies: Many companies that ship work overseas receive billions of dollars worth of government procurement contracts, subsidies and state and local tax abatements. These taxpayer-financed benefits usually come with very few strings attached, allowing companies to skim additional profits by performing publicly funded work overseas. Laws at the local, state and federal level should be reformed to ensure our taxpayer dollars are not subsidizing the destruction of American jobs.

Currency: A number of U.S. trading partners – China in particular – manipulate the value of their currency relative to the dollar to give their exports to the U.S. an artificial cost advantage, while making American products more expensive. This puts American producers and workers at an impossible cost disadvantage, effectively shutting them out of export markets and undermining their competitiveness at home. The U.S. must take immediate and aggressive action to ensure that the dollar is appropriately valued and withdraw trade benefits from countries that insist on manipulating their currency to unfair advantage, in violation of international trade rules.

Trade Laws: Domestic trade laws enable the government to redress unfair trade practices that give an illegitimate advantage to overseas production. These laws were intended to provide the first line of defense for American producers and workers, yet they are very poorly enforced. The World Trade Organization has weakened our ability to use these laws, and on-going trade negotiations may undermine these laws even further. We must vigorously enforce our domestic trade laws, defend them from challenge, and work to strengthen them in the future.

Trade Agreements: Trade deals such as the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) create new rights, but no responsibilities, for companies that ship jobs overseas. NAFTA contains strong legal protections for companies investing abroad and guaranteed access for their products into the U.S. market. But NAFTA provides no comparable protections for the rights of workers and the environment, allowing companies to escape their international obligations by shipping work overseas. We must fundamentally reform flawed trade rules to hold companies accountable for respecting workers’ rights no matter where they produce.

Exporting America - Outsourcing Solutions (http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/exportingamerica/outsourcing_solutions.cfm)

This is all very relevant as to why we are losing these AMR jobs.

Wow, so you are the spokesperson for the Unions.

The reason these companies are failing is because of the Unions. They protect the lazy and don't reward hard workers. So, the hard workers leave and go to better jobs where they don't have to pay union dues. The lazy workers stay and continue to do bad work causing higher costs and less production. The companies continue to pay more for bad work because of the Union contracts that does not allow them to get rid of the bad employees. The only way to solve the problem is to go bankrupt. The bankrupt company get out of the union contracts and then layoff people. They hope to get rid of the lazy employees and then the process begins again.

So where are the hard workers working now?

This will likely only achieve worldwide companies headquartered in the US to move their headquarters out of the US and maybe leave a regional segment.

Having worked for several multi-national corporations over the years I can tell you many companies are primed for this type of move right now. All they need is a good reason the shareholders will buy. Under the guise of "diversity" American companies have been stocked with non-American executives. Many have zero loyalty to the USA.

Yeah, by preventing cash-rich corporations from going through bankruptcy - as nothing more than a wink and a nod in a process to bust labor unions and pass the pension buck.

I agree with the Pat Buchanan's on the right and the Bernie Sanders' on the left, that this stuff is anti-American, possibly criminal, and needs to be stopped. End the tax cuts that actually give business incentives to move out of the country, thereby sacrificing American jobs for higher profits and all in the name of so-called, "free trade."

What silliness

A big one is that healthcare is a government run service in most countries where here the cost is paid for largely by employers.

??? In what sense is that a tax cut?

What silliness

Nothing silly about it. Many people believe just what I said in my post. What you really mean is you think it's silly. That's fine. There's a lot of uninformed posters here.

a much better solution would be to allow those overseas profits .. to be returned to the US tax free

this would dump billions into the US economy .. and create jobs ..

??? In what sense is that a tax cut?

It's not a tax cut, but it is a lowered cost of doing business

I think TUL is the last major maintenance base now except for some smaller line facilities in like New York and LA. Kansas City was the last one they shut down and most of that work came to TUL and AFW. Now with AFW gone, TUL is the last. That should have them in a good position to remain open, but they can probably still get hit. Of course the wildcard in all this is who is going to try to take over AMR. US Airways, Delta, and TPG are all interested in American. Delta more than likely is just trying to prevent a US Airways/American merger. TPG is a big investment group that would either assist with a US/AA integration or work to keep AA independent. If consolidation is the path, I would expect AMR to dump as much as they can in Chapter 11 before securing a deal with US Airways.

For those that aren't away, AMR is more than just American Airlines...here are all the subsidiaries...

American Airlines
AA Real Estate Holding
Admirals Club, Inc.
American Airlines de Mexico, S.A.
American Airlines de Venezuela, S.A.
American Airlines Marketing Services LLC
American Airlines Realty (NYC) Holdings, Inc.
American Airlines Vacations LLC
American Aviation Supply LLC
Packcall Limited
Texas Aero Engine Services, L.L.C, dba TAESL
AMR Eagle Holding Corporation
American Eagle Airlines Inc. a regional feeder airline for AA
Eagle Aviation Services
Executive Airlines Inc., operating American Eagle's ATR aircraft fleet
AMR owns a 20% share of Aeroperlas

I bolded the two regional subsidiaries of AMR. There has been long standing rumors that they will sell them off. Executive is leaving the DFW hub and will go back to operating only in the MIA and SJU hubs (San Juan PR). Wouldn't be shocked to see that one spun off. American Eagle will likely get spun off much like how Continental spun ExpressJet off. At least once they get the scope release and costs down that are needed. Now American Eagle is not the same as American Connection. Those are different airlines operating under the American brand much like other airline agreements. Eagle is wholly owned and an airline itself.

It's my understanding is that Eagle has been spun off or is in the process of being spun off. I know they've been working to separate their data from AMR's over the past few months. I was told there was a December 1, 2011 deadline for that.

It's my understanding is that Eagle has been spun off or is in the process of being spun off. I know they've been working to separate their data from AMR's over the past few months. I was told there was a December 1, 2011 deadline for that.

It was never done before Chapter 11. They stopped the process, for now, and took Eagle and Executive into chapter 11 with them.

Wow, so you are the spokesperson for the Unions.

The reason these companies are failing is because of the Unions. They protect the lazy and don't reward hard workers. So, the hard workers leave and go to better jobs where they don't have to pay union dues. The lazy workers stay and continue to do bad work causing higher costs and less production. The companies continue to pay more for bad work because of the Union contracts that does not allow them to get rid of the bad employees. The only way to solve the problem is to go bankrupt. The bankrupt company get out of the union contracts and then layoff people. They hope to get rid of the lazy employees and then the process begins again.

I'll trust "lazy union" work on airplanes over "the cheapest bid" any day.

Nothing silly about it. Many people believe just what I said in my post. What you really mean is you think it's silly. That's fine. There's a lot of uninformed posters here.

Indeed. Here are The facts: America has higher corporate tax rates than almost every other country. America is the only country that even purports to tax profits earned outside our territory. Other countries only tax income earned within their borders. Profits of American companies doing business in other countries are taxed by the country where earned, regardless of whether the profits are returned to America. The only tax "benefit" is entirely the result of the relatively low rates of taxation imposed by almost every other country in the world.

It is disingenuous, to say the least, to claim that we give tax cuts to companies for moving jobs overseas. if you have a problem with the rates of tax paid by American companies doing business elsewhere, you should take it up with those countries and try to get them to raise their corporate tax rates to equal ours.

It's not a tax cut, but it is a lowered cost of doing business

Yes. Rather a different thing, no?

Indeed. Here are The facts: America has higher corporate tax rates than almost every other country.

That is far from the whole story. We do have a high statutory tax rate but that does not take into account differences in accounting or our byzantine system of tax loopholes and deductions. After removing all the deductions and loopholes and accounting tricks that we allow our corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP are the second lowest in the developed world.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/05/260535/graph-corporate-tax-second-lowest/?mobile=nc

I'll trust "lazy union" work on airplanes over "the cheapest bid" any day.

Instead you are going to have Chinese made soon because of the lazy union workers. That is what unions are doing to our country!

That is far from the whole story. We do have a high statutory tax rate but that does not take into account differences in accounting or our byzantine system of tax loopholes and deductions. After removing all the deductions and loopholes and accounting tricks that we allow our corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP are the second lowest in the developed world.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/07/05/260535/graph-corporate-tax-second-lowest/?mobile=nc

If accurate, then all this nonsense about giving companies tax reductions for moving overseas is even more dishonest than I previously thought. What your far-left publication suggests is that moving overseas would actually result in tax increases, not reductions, and there would be no benefit to leaving the profits overseas. Again, American companies pay taxes in the countries where profits are earned, and there is a credit against American taxes for taxes paid overseas in the country where the income was earned.

If accurate, then all this nonsense about giving companies tax reductions for moving overseas is even more dishonest than I previously thought. What your far-left publication suggests is that moving overseas would actually result in tax increases, not reductions, and there would be no benefit to leaving the profits overseas. Again, American companies pay taxes in the countries where profits are earned, and there is a credit against American taxes for taxes paid overseas in the country where the income was earned.

Taxes on overseas profits are easy to avoid, don't bring the profits home to the United States. Only then is it taxable.

Taxes are only a small cost component anyway. Private health insurance spending in the United States is 5.63% of GDP according to the link I’ve provided. That’s a cost that is being borne in the US largely by employers and looks to be a good deal larger cost component than corporate taxes, which are measured as 1.3% of GDP. Healthcare over all is more than 17% of GDP. This is why healthcare reform was so big.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/06/low_tax.html

Taxes are kinda irrelevant to the health of a company anyway, at least for public companies, because the most important measure of company health isn’t net income, it’s usually a combination of revenue growth/loss and EBITDA. Net only happens after the accountants play all their (hopefully legal) games and therefore is usually not a good measure of corporate worth and health.

The exchange rate is huge factor with the decision to move jobs. The QE1 and 2 plans that pissed off China so much are doing just what was intended, they made imports to the US more expensive and exports cheaper while making investment capital in the US more available. That’s why we are seeing a new trend of companies coming back to the US.

I wonder how much we have hurt Europe, but they have a larger systematic problems with individual countries having control over fiscal policy but not monetary policy. They are fighting the recession with one hand tied behind their backs. Kind of the exact opposite of what a balanced budget amendment would do here in tying our hands on fiscal policy leaving only monetary policy to fight downturns. Southern Europe also has a huge issue with their culture of tax cheating.

It is useless Oil Capitol. I have been trying to explain this for years. They don't get it, they don't want to get it, and they never will get it. The best you can do is prepare for the inevitable collapse.

It is useless Oil Capitol. I have been trying to explain this for years. They don't get, they don't want to get it, and they never will get it. The best you can do is prepare for the inevitable collapse.

Specifically what "it" isn't being gotten Kerry?

Specifically what "it" isn't being gotten Kerry?

How capital follows the path of least resistance, and generally how currency and the economy actually works.

How capital follows the path of least resistance, and generally how currency and the economy actually works.

Alright Mr. Gold Standard:

1. What is the inherent worth of gold vs. fiat currency? What makes gold better?
2. How would you solve the issues with international movement of capital under a gold standard? Especially in times of conflict?
3. Define “value”
4. What were the main drivers of the depressions of 1857 and 1873, what made them last so long and what would you have done differently?
5. What was the impact of the gold standard on the depression of 1929?
6. How do you explain that since 1929 and leaving the gold standard in 1933 that the United States has become an economic power unlike anything the world has ever seen, with no gold standard?
7. In light of what happened in 1857, 1873 and 1929 and since what would you have done differently in 2008?

What do questions 1-7 have to do with AMR?