Their next priority really needs to be ramps from EB Kilpatrick to SB74 and NB74 to WB Kilpatrick. They "got it done" for the initial build, they can do the same for this common sense enhancement.

Problem is 122nd dead ends between Kelley and Eastern

Pretty sure we've hashed that on here. It's only for one half mile. If there were more development in that part of the metro, I'm sure that street would be on OKCs long list of streets to be improved.


Problem is, you cannot go from southbound Broadway to eastbound Kilpatrick. At Hefner Pkwy and Kilpatrick you can go any direction without any backtracking or going through too many long Edmond lights.

If you want to go to eastbound Kilpatrick and you live off of, say, Santa Fe, you either have to backtrack to Western, or go through past Santa Fe, Kelly, and Broadway all the way over to Boulevard/Eastern. Especially if you are a couple miles north of the Kilpatrick, by that time you might as well have just gone over to I-35 and saved the toll cost. Additionally, it would help alleviate traffic trouble in morning rush hour on southbound Broadway and I-44 by making it easier to get to I-35 to get downtown.

Grew up in Edmond, so I understand your view.

Question... Why would you want to go a half mile to the SSW to loop around to go slightly back to the ENE before straightening out on an eastward trek to I-35 which only has one exit at Eastern between Broadway and the interstate? Seems a whole lot easier to me to go one mile east down Memorial and one mile south down Eastern to get to anywhere over in that area...which is primarily residential.

Second question... I-35 is soooooooooooo far out of the way of getting to downtown that I'm wondering why there is any reason to alleviate traffic? How many times have we heard and or discussed on here that traffic in OKC, even during peak rush hours, is nothing compared to major cities? Why would you or anyone else, from Santa Fe Avenue travel 8 miles out of their way to alleviate your definition of high volumes of traffic? Seems a bit ludicrous to spend extra money and time to not take the most direct route toward downtown.

Anyway, ODOT and OTA are concerned with high traffic volume numbers. ODOT did not rebuild the Crosstown until it was crumbling due to over handling its designed capacity by at least 5 times so I really wouldn't expect any changes at either of these locations until the numbers prove otherwise, which is probably still at least 15+ years away--just my humble opinion, of course. :cool:

As much as we want it, probably not going to see ODOT and OTA cooperate to build stack interchanges for the foreseeable feature. Furthermore, no reason to have service roads on either side of the turnpike when you have NE 122nd a half mile to the south and Memorial a half mile to the north.

Really? You want to force folks who chose not to pay the toll to have to go that far out of their way?

Not cool.

Really? You want to force folks who chose not to pay the toll to have to go that far out of their way?

Not cool.

Where on earth are you seeing anything about that in my post. Either reinterpret what I wrote or please enlighten me.

Where on earth are you seeing anything about that in my post. Either reinterpret what I wrote or please enlighten me.

The part where you said you didn't see any reason to have the service roads on either side of the turnpike . . . you're referring to Memorial are you not?

To me that means you don't believe those roads should be there. Which, if they weren't there would mean folks would need to go further out of their way to head east or west if they couldn't use Memorial.

If that's not what you meant then . . . I'll blame my interpretation on the Nyqil I've been taking.

The part where you said you didn't see any reason to have the service roads on either side of the turnpike . . . you're referring to Memorial are you not?

To me that means you don't believe those roads should be there. Which, if they weren't there would mean folks would need to go further out of their way to head east or west if they couldn't use Memorial.

If that's not what you meant then . . . I'll blame my interpretation on the Nyqil I've been taking.

No, PluPan was asking why there weren't service roads on either side of the Kilpatrick east of Broadway Extension and I stated that there was no reason to have service roads there considering you have Memorial a half mile to the north and 122nd (albeit a half mile non existent) a half mile to the south.

It's all good.

The adjacent neighborhoods did not want a commercial corridor (service roads) between Broadway and I-35, they were in there years before the turnpike was built.

I only bring this up from the dead to ask what I consider a legit question. Have they "recycled" the safety cables they pulled from this widened section? I remember somewhere the OTA saying they could reuse them since they weren't very old. I ask because there is a 5 1/2 mile long section of the Kilpatrick between NW Expressway & MacArthur Blvd that sure could use safety cable barrier and quite frankly I'm surprised it's that naked.

I only bring this up from the dead to ask what I consider a legit question. Have they "recycled" the safety cables they pulled from this widened section? I remember somewhere the OTA saying they could reuse them since they weren't very old. I ask because there is a 5 1/2 mile long section of the Kilpatrick between NW Expressway & MacArthur Blvd that sure could use safety cable barrier and quite frankly I'm surprised it's that naked.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they put them between I-40 and Memorial on Kilpatrick. They poured the concrete shoulders, and seems like the cables weren't put in until the one's up north were pulled out.

I only bring this up from the dead to ask what I consider a legit question. Have they "recycled" the safety cables they pulled from this widened section? I remember somewhere the OTA saying they could reuse them since they weren't very old. I ask because there is a 5 1/2 mile long section of the Kilpatrick between NW Expressway & MacArthur Blvd that sure could use safety cable barrier and quite frankly I'm surprised it's that naked.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they put them between I-40 and Memorial on Kilpatrick. They poured the concrete shoulders, and seems like the cables weren't put in until the one's up north were pulled out.

It would not suprise me if the reason they would move it there instead of between NW Expressway & MacArthur Blvd, is they will probably be pushing for additional lanes and concrete barriers in the NW Expressway & MacArthur Blvd section in a few years

Until a couple of crossover fatalities occur.

I did not know that the cable barriers from NW Expressway on to the south did not exist beforehand so you are probably correct SuperChris7.

I could be wrong but, I thought they were entertaining the idea of converting NW Expressway to a below ground level Interstate type highway.

^^haha. That's funny. Am I on candid camera?

I could be wrong but, I thought they were entertaining the idea of converting NW Expressway to a below ground level Interstate type highway.

That is an entertaining idea

Coming from a guy who loves highways, I don't think NW Expressway should be converted into an official freeway....

I do think the time is coming for the city to start studies to turn NW 39th expressway into a limited access, high-speed freeway, putting a loop around Edmond(continuing Hefner Parkway), and turning Highway 9 in Norman into a freeway looping it around Norman. There are also a few other highway expansion and new freeways that could be built in OKC.

Right now though, they need to widen 240 east to six lanes to the county border as well as I-40 east. I believe they are about to do this anyhow. Will be nice. They should also build a new highway through Jones like the one proposed awhile back.

I could be wrong but, I thought they were entertaining the idea of converting NW Expressway to a below ground level Interstate type highway.BTW, was this recent or was this always "the plan"?

A loop around Edmond...slapstick comedy right there!

No way Edmond gets a loop before Norman gets a loop.

Now with regard to widening streets, Covell is SUPPOSED to be 4 lanes from I35 all the way over to 74. That's the only true thoroughfare planned for Edmond as you know by your street construction updates.

A loop around Edmond...slapstick comedy right there!NW OKC is exploding with growth. There are tons of new office complexes going up and a plethora of new homes. This would not only serve Edmond but NW OKC as well. Why that humorous, I would like to know. Is about time to widen the service roads on Kirpatrick to six lanes as well. This corridor is going to be amazing especially after the Chisholm Creek development is done.


No way Edmond gets a loop before Norman gets a loopNever once stated that nor do I care. Don't know how you know that, but like I said, I honestly don't care who gets a loop first. It's just something that needs to be done soon. Studies need to be made with groundbreaking within the next 5 years or so. Traffic is starting to congested in OKC no matter what people say and if the city wants to stay ahead of the curve, then thats what needs to be done.


Now with regard to widening streets, Covell is SUPPOSED to be 4 lanes from I35 all the way over to 74. That's the only true thoroughfare planned for Edmond as you know by your street construction updates.What does Covell have to do with anything? It is a street, not a limited access, high-speed highway.

Also, for the loop around Edmond, it needs to be tolled. Complete the interchange of Kirpatrick/Hefner Parkway and give Oklahoma its first 4 stack interchange, while they're at it.

Coming from a guy who loves highways, I don't think NW Expressway should be converted into an official freeway....

I do think the time is coming for the city to start studies to turn NW 39th expressway into a limited access, high-speed freeway, putting a loop around Edmond(continuing Hefner Parkway), and turning Highway 9 in Norman into a freeway looping it around Norman. There are also a few other highway expansion and new freeways that could be built in OKC.

Right now though, they need to widen 240 east to six lanes to the county border as well as I-40 east. I believe they are about to do this anyhow. Will be nice. They should also build a new highway through Jones like the one proposed awhile back.

Yeah I think Edmond could use a north loop. Extend the Hefner Parkway and connect it to I-35 north of Covell.

Yeah I think Edmond could use a north loop. Extend the Hefner Parkway and connect it to I-35 north of Covell.Yeah... I was thinking tunring Portland Ave. into a highway that turns around and turns Waterloo Rd. into a limited access, high-speed highway as well.

NW OKC is exploding with growth. There are tons of new office complexes going up and a plethora of new homes. This would not only serve Edmond but NW OKC as well. Why that humorous, I would like to know. Is about time to widen the service roads on Kirpatrick to six lanes as well. This corridor is going to be amazing especially after the Chisholm Creek development is done.

OKC doesn't even have a full circle toll around it and it won't have an estimated 1.9 million population until 2050. Have we heard anything about a full circle toll for OKC. NO. Do we want it? Of course. Doesn't mean its in the works.

Never once stated that nor do I care. Don't know how you know that, but like I said, I honestly don't care who gets a loop first. It's just something that needs to be done soon. Studies need to be made with groundbreaking within the next 5 years or so. Traffic is starting to congested in OKC no matter what people say and if the city wants to stay ahead of the curve, then thats what needs to be done.

Populous centers. Again...OKC including Edmond and Norman, 1.2 mil. No full circle toll. Norman has about 30K on Edmond and you don't see a loop around Norman do ya?!

What does Covell have to do with anything? It is a street, not a limited access, high-speed highway.

Regardless of Covell being what it is, with plans for 74 to be widened north of Kilpatrick to Covell as it is north of there now, you're looking at a higher capacity roadway for the NW metro area that will provide better access to I-35. You just want to speed. Don't downplay that.

Also, for the loop around Edmond, it needs to be tolled. Complete the interchange of Kirpatrick/Hefner Parkway and give Oklahoma its first 4 stack interchange, while they're at it.


See answers above.

BTW, was this recent or was this always "the plan"?

When NW Highway was widened in the 50's, they left (what they thought) was enough ROW to convert it to a freeway as growth demanded. What they didn't account for was the lack of interest to FUND such a conversion (see Kellogg Ave in Wichita for an example of how its done). You can still see evidence of the ROW at 63rd as well as Rockwell. The other major intersections have lost the ROW as ODOT sold it off.

The cost to do such a conversion today would be over $1 billion. Doubt there is the political will to get such a thing done, even as a toll road.

Do you all realize how incredibly expensive all of this expansion you're talking about is? Why do people just crave to spend billions on highway expansion?! Is that really what we should be spending the majority of our money on? We can't even pay for the maintenance of existing roads! This is lunacy.

Some people need to stick to playing Cities in Motion 2. :) Granted I do and have a blast in it, but that's besides the point. :-X

Do you all realize how incredibly expensive all of this expansion you're talking about is? Why do people just crave to spend billions on highway expansion?! Is that really what we should be spending the majority of our money on? We can't even pay for the maintenance of existing roads! This is lunacy.yeah yeah yeah... same crap every time on here by the same people man.... oh it's too expensive... do you know how much streetcar it could've built with that money.. give me a break man. Did I say do it all at once? No. Did I say do it now? No..... I clearly stated that studies need to be done to determine how it will be done, FIRST. As much as people want to say it will not happen anytime soon, we'll see. I'm willing to bet I wake up one day and see something about a major highway expansion in OKC posted and you and all the others anti-highway nuts go ape and gripe about how we still don't have light rail, how it won't solve any traffic issues, how this bs theory of induced demand will clog the highways(yes I've read about it and it still doesn't sit right with me).

I just love how I can come on here and support a street car, but boooooooy when I tout building a new freeway ''GET THE PITCH FORKS".

To answer your questions:


Do you all realize how incredibly expensive all of this expansion you're talking about is?

Yes. Dallas is spending 3.7 billion dollars on a single project to widen 635 and they have already seen over 2 billion dollars worth of investment directly because of it and 10 billion more is expected over the next five years. I don't think it would even take a billion to build a four lane loop around Edmond and it would be tolled anyway. The other projects could probably be done for under 4 billion all together and you would return of investment very quickly. You won't need to worry about though as you can sit and watch your streetcar get built and how much development that will spur, which will be a lot.


Why do people just crave to spend billions on highway expansion?!

Because highways are a great thing. The same reason most big stores want to be built near highways and land values are highest near highways. Oh, and because the same reason you crave to spend billions on rail. Now this might seem crazy to you, but some people don't want to live in concrete jungles. I think places like Deep Deuce are awesome, but sooooooome people(the majority of OKC) don't want to live in places like that. Cars are the best method of transportation for them and to get from point a to point b they need highways in some cases. When those highways reach capacity, they need to be widened, same as roads.


Why do people just crave to spend billions on highway expansion?

In my opinion, yes. The majority of transit dollars should go to highway funding. Around 55% or more should go to highways and roads. The rest can go to rail, buses, brt, and whatever else you'd like.


We can't even pay for the maintenance of existing roads!

We're not adjusting for increase in concrete. Gas tax needs to up, more tolls need to be in place(not every highway needs to be tolled and certainly not the interstates), more dedicated tax sources need to be in place(a few examples: tax the casinos a little bit, actually use some of the lottery funds for highway construction as well as education(the majority of that going towards education), implementing a small tax on car related products, or just increasing state taxes in general(which needs to be done anyways) and devote more funding towards road and highway construction), and finally as technology gets better, we'll see more durable, longer lasting cement or some new composite material that could be used for roads and highways.


This is lunacy.

That's really your opinion. Highways have proven to result in a significant return of investment and when built right and suited to the cities size, support a great form of transportation and do it quickly with the exception of rush hour. But if you want to compare it rail, by the time you wait for you ride, get on, wait to get going, the other potential stops you might go through, you arrive the same time as a car stuck in rush hour without the private amenities and convenience of a car. Here in OKC, because of our lax traffic and depending on where you live, you'd likely get to your destination way faster then you would with rail.

Now, like I've said a million times, I'm for options. I understand you can get work done sitting on a train and that's great. If you want that, more power to you. I support light-rail here in the metro. I support a functioning system that doesn't shut down at 7pm. I support and awesome street car network. If the will was there, I'd support a subway system in OKC in the core. I support mass transit, I also recognize realities and that is highways do great things and there is no reason OKC shouldn't spend billions to expand our highway system as we see fit. Yes, I know exactly what OKCs population is.

Some people need to stick to playing Cities in Motion 2. :) Granted I do and have a blast in it, but that's besides the point. :-XIs it better than SimCity? I haven't played that yet......

Workers Install Cable Barriers On Parts Of Kilpatrick Turnpike - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/25639663/workers-to-install-cable-barriers-on-parts-of-kilpatrick-turnpike)

Workers Install Cable Barriers On Parts Of Kilpatrick Turnpike - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/25639663/workers-to-install-cable-barriers-on-parts-of-kilpatrick-turnpike)

Nice to see they're on top of things ("will take place", "see workers soon"), 'cos last time I went by there a few weeks ago, they were about 1/3 done, they might already be finished by now since they're moving so quickly...