OnlyOne: While one can never know for sure what a merger means, I think that a US/AA merger would have hubs in CLT, MIA, DFW, ORD AND LAX with MIA being more of a large focus city to the islands and run as such. I know some may call me crazy with this one, but I could see ORD becoming a very large focus city for AA and run on a slightly smaller scale compared to DFW . CLT will remain as such. PHL and DCA will be scaled back in my opinion as well as PHX. I could see PHX turning into an airport much like CVG. USAirways needs AA more than AA needs USAirways

So, that would mean main hubs would be : DFW,CLT,LAX and large focus cities would be MIA,ORD and PHX.

To answer your question, I don't think AA/US merger would generate a lot of routes to the east from OKC if any. They may "test" a few and see how they run...but... eh... not too sure.

Your main hub/focus city prediction would be pretty excellent for AA.

If we are going to primarily be served by RJ's I would like to see more E-170/175/190/195's at WRWA. Those are the nicest RJ's I have ever flown in mainly becaue of the increased headroom. But I am not familiar with how they are assigned or if WRWA is even in the running for them - all I know is I liked flying on them. Anyone have any idea if some of the smaller RJ's (and maybe even partially sold full size jets) may be replaced by these?

OnlyOne: While one can never know for sure what a merger means, I think that a US/AA merger would have hubs in CLT, MIA, DFW, ORD AND LAX with MIA being more of a large focus city to the islands and run as such. I know some may call me crazy with this one, but I could see ORD becoming a very large focus city for AA and run on a slightly smaller scale compared to DFW . CLT will remain as such. PHL and DCA will be scaled back in my opinion as well as PHX. I could see PHX turning into an airport much like CVG. USAirways needs AA more than AA needs USAirways

So, that would mean main hubs would be : DFW,CLT,LAX and large focus cities would be MIA,ORD and PHX.

To answer your question, I don't think AA/US merger would generate a lot of routes to the east from OKC if any. They may "test" a few and see how they run...but... eh... not too sure.

Agree with your thoughts about PHX and PHL, but I think they keep a hub at DCA (as much as they can with the restrictions there). DFW will remain king, with CLT, LAX, ORD, MIA, DCA and JFK right behind as hubs (in that order). The new American would likely maintain nonstop OKC-LAX, OKC-ORD and OKC-DFW with the addition of OKC-CLT and maybe eventually OKC-JFK which would be great.

OnlyOne: While one can never know for sure what a merger means, I think that a US/AA merger would have hubs in CLT, MIA, DFW, ORD AND LAX with MIA being more of a large focus city to the islands and run as such. I know some may call me crazy with this one, but I could see ORD becoming a very large focus city for AA and run on a slightly smaller scale compared to DFW. CLT will remain as such. PHL and DCA will be scaled back in my opinion as well as PHX. I could see PHX turning into an airport much like CVG. USAirways needs AA more than AA needs USAirways

So, that would mean main hubs would be : DFW,CLT,LAX and large focus cities would be MIA,ORD and PHX.

To answer your question, I don't think AA/US merger would generate a lot of routes to the east from OKC if any. They may "test" a few and see how they run...but... eh... not too sure.

Ehhh...I almost agree with you. I don't see DCA and PHL getting scaled back at all. PHL would be the only major CONNECTING hub in the Northeast for them. JFK is almost purely O&D traffic and does little for people trying to get from Portland to Roanoke. DCA is also a massive cash cow for US Airways and I only see them trying to grow it even more if at all possible. However, I do think they would have to give up several of the slots AA is sitting on right now to keep it.

CLT is the only strong competitor to ATL and is just a massive hub. MIA I agree that it focuses more on O&D and a focus operation to the islands. DFW isn't going anywhere. I think ORD might get scaled back a bit as well. That's been a rumor for years though. I could see them opting to load it up with 70+ seaters and reduce frequencies though. LAX is a strong O&D market, much like JFK. PHX would probably be a good smaller hub to keep connecting traffic going, but they might give up more to Southwest.

I'm not sure US needs AA more than the other way around. I think they both pretty much need each other. They almost need to do this to remain a strong competitor against the networks of UA and DL. I would say the party that really needs this is OneWorld...get US out of Star and open up a ton of new markets for them.

For OKC I think CLT is the obviously choice. I think DFW and ORD would remain the main connecting points for OKC pax.


If we are going to primarily be served by RJ's I would like to see more E-170/175/190/195's at WRWA. Those are the nicest RJ's I have ever flown in mainly becaue of the increased headroom. But I am not familiar with how they are assigned or if WRWA is even in the running for them - all I know is I liked flying on them. Anyone have any idea if some of the smaller RJ's (and maybe even partially sold full size jets) may be replaced by these?

They'll likely be replaced. Fuel costs right now make 50-seaters uneconomical in most cases. So they need to dump them for the larger RJs or go back to the more efficient turboprops. The biggest thing the airlines will look out for first are yields. Even if flights aren't extremely full, if they are rolling in the dough on higher fares they'll send them there first. Why? They will all more than likely have first class cabins which brings in more money either through direct sale or by keeping premium customers happy.

The E-jets as they are known have been gaining more popularity over the years, there will be more of them no doubt. The CRJs are going to stick around for a while, I'm talking about the 700 and the 900, both of which have better economics than the 100 and the 200. Back in the day(mid-late '90s), people were getting sick of the turboprops, and when the RJs came they delighted in getting jet speed and sound. But then the airlines got clever and then people started hating the RJs. How things change! Personally, I have liked every turboprop I have flown in thus far with the exception of the "Q"400. I've flown in the EMB 120 Brasilia (remember those from the DL Connection ASA hub days?), the ATR 72-200 and -500.

If AA and US merge, I will be surprised if PHX is de-hubbed, US already did away with LAS, but that was because it wasn't working out too well for it. PHX has a good O&D base but also has better connecting traffic than LAS did. Of course if US did leave I'm sure the "other" competitor would be happy to take over the rest of T4.

I doubt ORD would get a big scale back, it remains a "hot" market, unless AA just isn't doing things right and its costs there are increasing. It's also a lucrative OneWorld hub and besides, US has absolutely no east-west hub. Also keep in mind ORD still gets good feed from all the small and medium-sized midwest cities.

I'm in the same boat. I've enjoyed the props I've been on. The best one? BAe ATP hands down. Yes...it is roughly as long as a 737-200.

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac3/Airline/Air Wisconsin BAC ATP.jpg

I also enjoyed the the EMB-120 on Comair out of Cincy through the Midwest, ATRs on Eagle, and the Saabs on Mesaba over the Lakes.

^The ATP was the earliest of the six-bladed prop planes, reminds me of the Saab 2000 that came much later. I am surprised the 2000 didn't catch on here in the U.S. though, many markets that are served on short distances with aircraft like the CRJ 200/ERJ 145 would have been much more profitably served with the Saab 2000 in my opinion (and with a cruise speed of 424 mph to boot!). My guess is it was just bad timing, as the 2000 came out roughly when the RJ craze started.

^The ATP was the earliest of the six-bladed prop planes, reminds me of the Saab 2000 that came much later. I am surprised the 2000 didn't catch on here in the U.S. though, many markets that are served on short distances with aircraft like the CRJ 200/ERJ 145 would have been much more profitably served with the Saab 2000 in my opinion (and with a cruise speed of 424 mph to boot!). My guess is it was just bad timing, as the 2000 came out roughly when the RJ craze started.

Yeah the Saab 2000 was about 5-10 years or so too early. I remember in the first part of the last decade when airlines like Mesaba and Chicago Express were trying everything to get their hands on them. However, there just were enough to go around. Much like the misfire on the Dornier jets which were about 5 years too late. The Saab 2000 would be knocking it out of the park right now with the economics and passenger experience (faster speeds, good cabin comfort).

One other thing I would point out with the ATP, I believe it was the first modern turboprop that was jetbridge accessible. It took some time, and modifications, to make bridges work with the ATRs and Saabs.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/August%20Enplanement%202012.pdf

Very strong performance across the board.

United Announces New Routes From Cleveland Hub - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-announces-routes-cleveland-hub-203400313.html)

United adds Cleveland beginning Feb 14, 2013.

Go go Marcellus and Utica shale plays.

We'll see if it lasts.

Cleveland – Oklahoma City

Oklahoma City – Cleveland
Departs
Arrives

Departs
Arrives
8:40 a.m.
10:30 a.m.

10:55 a.m.
2:30 p.m.

Times are kind of strange. But I think it should do okay with the industry ties.

United announces new nonstop from Oklahoma City to Cleveland | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/united-announces-new-nonstop-from-okc-to-cleveland/article/3711508?custom_click=pod_lead_business)

Oklahoman got the flight times mixed up....

That's cool. So now Spartan can jet back and forth -- every day, if he likes. :wink:

The thing that caugh my attention in the article was that the spokesperson for Will Rogers is Karen Carney. She's still doing that, huh? She's had that job for a long time. Anybody here old enough to remember when she co-hosted PM Magazine?

That's cool. So now Spartan can jet back and forth -- every day, if he likes. :wink:

The thing that caught my attention in the article was that the spokesperson for Will Rogers is Karen Carney. She's still doing that, huh? She's had that job for a long time. Anybody here old enough to remember when she co-hosted PM Magazine?

She actually left and then came back, from what I understand.

This isn't the first time OKC has had nonstops to CLE. Continental Express had the service for a year or two before it shut down, which started back in '07 I believe. This time there seems to be a business demand though so hopefully that will add something to the service and evetually also get an aircraft upgrade.

Good news. This makes my unplanned trip for cedar point next year more likely to happen

This isn't the first time OKC has had nonstops to CLE. Continental Express had the service for a year or two before it shut down, which started back in '07 I believe. This time there seems to be a business demand though so hopefully that will add something to the service and evetually also get an aircraft upgrade.

Correct. This service is more about the local market whereas last time it was to go into the CLE hub. UA has pulled back a good amount on the CLE hub, but is maintaining a contracted amount of service through the airport.

One must also consider that with the very full loads that United (and really all of the other carriers) have had at OKC this summer, this is also a capacity increase to spread connecting passengers over a different hub to get them out of OKC. For example, with the business ties on both ends, it would make more sense to send one RJ to CLE at 11am instead of having to upguage the 11am ORD or IAD flight to mainline. You can spread the 11am connecting demand over another hub while reaping the benefits of serving an additional market with business ties.

The drive from Detroit to Cedar Point is pretty comparable to the one from Cleveland to Cedar Point, isn't it?

The drive from Detroit to Cedar Point is pretty comparable to the one from Cleveland to Cedar Point, isn't it?

Cleveland is give or take 60 miles or so closer.

Cleveland is give or take 60 miles or so closer.

Yep. Toledo is about equidistant from Cleveland to Sandusky, not Detroit.

Yep. Toledo is about equidistant from Cleveland to Sandusky, not Detroit.

Yeah looks like it is pretty close. Toledo is 58 miles and Cleveland is 62 miles. Detroit to Toledo is about 50 miles, so you have to take that on. Though the drive isn't bad...I-75 to 280 to 80/90. Either way, the CLE flight is going to be great for those going up to vacation in Northern Ohio for Cedar Point. Would also recommended take a day and take Jet Express from Sandusky (if you are going to CP) to Put-In-Bay to enjoy a day on the Islands.

Ah. I did the Detriot to Cedar Point drive last summer and it didn't seem that long, probably because it is such an easy drive, though I do remember wishing I had flown into Cleveland instead because the Indians were playing and I totally would have gone to the game before checking in at Cedar Point, while the Tigers were on the road. Basically poor planning on my part.

Loaded into the system

UA 4429 CLEOKC 0840A 1032A
Operates Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa

UA 4429 OKCCLE 1057A 0220P
Operates Mo Tu We Th Fr Su


Will be operated by Expressjet on 50 seat ERJ145.

Last night, I saw that there was construction activity in the bottom floor of the parking garage in WRWA. What's going on here?

Are we finally going to get valet/drop-off parking?

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/September%20Enplanement%202012.pdf

Slightly down for September.

I wonder if the demand is there now for them to add the East Concourse...I think they need to go ahead a get it started, as it will take a couple years to fully complete.

I wonder if the demand is there now for them to add the East Concourse...I think they need to go ahead a get it started, as it will take a couple years to fully complete.

If anything they need to add an FIS area for Mexican flights. With WN expanding south of the border, it could open opportunities up here for flights going that direction. Not to mention, there are other targets that OKC could go after to get service here.

Overall though we still are no where near capacity to force the need for additional gates. Airlines are also operating too many small jets into the city still to force the facility to be packed.

United will be taking Gate 8 soon. And keeping 3, 5, 9, 10 as well.

Are all gates fully functional? By that I'm asking if each gate has telco, a computer, PA capability, boarding pass scanner, etc. I suppose that each is the responsibility of its respective airline, but I was in an airport on Sunday and UA checked us in at one gate and put us in the jetway at another nearby gate.

No. Each airline has their own computer systems and the airline is responsible for providing it. The unused gates are "dead". However, for operational needs we may rent a gate for a few hours from the city. All ticketing isues will be taken care of at another gate but you may board through a different gate. For example scan your pass at Gate 3 and board through Gate 1.

WRWA has a lot more traffic and non-stop flights now than they did 5 years ago when they considered expansion, so it should not be too far off before we see the East Concourse development and Central Terminal upgrades. We know that they are making utility and runway improvements on the east side of the airport, so maybe that is a start...

Central Terminal upgrades will happen before the East Concourse.

Thanks catch. We were trying to get to ORD which had been under a tornado warning, the system everywhere had backed up, and airline personnel were doing their best to get pax to the aircraft. I appreciate their hard work, including scanning boarding passes at one gate and running us through another.

WRWA has a lot more traffic and non-stop flights now than they did 5 years ago when they considered expansion, so it should not be too far off before we see the East Concourse development and Central Terminal upgrades. We know that they are making utility and runway improvements on the east side of the airport, so maybe that is a start...

Utility and runway improvements are mainly for the new mixed use developments going in on the east side of the airport. Nothing to do with the pax terminal. Right now we are at 17 gates and most airlines can get 8-12 flights out of each gate per day. So figure at least 130 flights a day. Granted some gates get squatted on by like Frontier who only has 3 flights a day.

Central Terminal upgrades will happen before the East Concourse.

I may have missed you detailing this elsewhere, but what improvements are planned for the Central Terminal? God knows it needs help from a functional standpoint.

I may have missed you detailing this elsewhere, but what improvements are planned for the Central Terminal? God knows it needs help from a functional standpoint.

Really nothing to note of besides the consolidated security checkpoint and the closing of both east and west checkpoints. No timeline for this project though.

I may have missed you detailing this elsewhere, but what improvements are planned for the Central Terminal? God knows it needs help from a functional standpoint.

Revised Central Terminal Expansion/Phase III/East Concourse (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/ivybfc55hji5so55qzjyw545/129323210192012112922476.PDF)

You'll wonder what's up with a blank page for the better half of a minute but it will load, just takes a while. Scroll down to Option 2a, which is what was chosen for expansion. It starts on page 55 of the document.

And for those thinking that the East Concourse is an immediate necessity, remember that gates 1, 11 and 12 are still unused. And of course Gate 2 is barely used, even if another airline wanted to start service here, it could easily share Gate 2 with Frontier (which is very common at many other busier airports in the U.S.) In my opinion OKC's traffic will need to come up to 4 mil/yr and remain above it, at about which time the East Concourse will be required. Very few times of the year is the terminal very crowded, Thanskgiving break and Christmas holiday travel being the examples. It's a few years away I think.

As far as international flights are concerned, Option 2a. does allow for an FIS facility. Which is what SkywestOKC posted back then. (http://www.okctalk.com/transportation/26061-will-rogers-development-discussion-2011-a.html#post440923)

Revised Central Terminal Expansion/Phase III/East Concourse (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/ivybfc55hji5so55qzjyw545/129323210192012112922476.PDF)

You'll wonder what's up with a blank page for the better half of a minute but it will load, just takes a while. Scroll down to Option 2a, which is what was chosen for expansion. It starts on page 55 of the document.

And for those thinking that the East Concourse is an immediate necessity, remember that gates 1, 11 and 12 are still unused. And of course Gate 2 is barely used, even if another airline wanted to start service here, it could easily share Gate 2 with Frontier (which is very common at many other busier airports in the U.S.) In my opinion OKC's traffic will need to come up to 4 mil/yr and remain above it, at about which time the East Concourse will be required. Very few times of the year is the terminal very crowded, Thanskgiving break and Christmas holiday travel being the examples. It's a few years away I think.

As far as international flights are concerned, Option 2a. does allow for an FIS facility. Which is what SkywestOKC posted back then. (http://www.okctalk.com/transportation/26061-will-rogers-development-discussion-2011-a.html#post440923)

The airport refuses to lease out Gate 1. They allow usage to be rented by the hour, but not a permanent lease. So after United takes Gate 8 that really allows only 2 leaseable gates. It really won't take too much expansion in service to trigger the construction of Phase 1 of the east concourse (small 3-4 gate extension). The second phase of the east concourse would finish it out to 9 gates.

One thing that will help the WRWA image, that will cost next to nothing is a new branding campaign. The website needs a total makeover and the logo of Will Rogers standing on the globe with a rope has to go. It's 2012, we are not in the 60's anymore. I know the OKC Airport Trust likes to stick with tradition but there are talented branding companies that can leverage old and new concepts and develop a new brand. Even the Tulsa Int'l Airport has a new brand, which is sleek, modern, and a breath of fresh air. Tulsa International Airport | Travel Above (http://tulsaairports.com/)

One thing that will help the WRWA image, that will cost next to nothing is a new branding campaign. The website needs a total makeover and the logo of Will Rogers standing on the globe with a rope has to go. It's 2012, we are not in the 60's anymore. I know the OKC Airport Trust likes to stick with tradition but there are talented branding companies that can leverage old and new concepts and develop a new brand. Even the Tulsa Int'l Airport has a new brand, which is sleek, modern, and a breath of fresh air. Tulsa International Airport | Travel Above (http://tulsaairports.com/)

It is kind of ironic as far as tulsa's website, the layout may feel slightly more modern but the logo and color scheme feels more out of the 60's/70's to me.

They just redesigned the website about a year or two ago. And it is not very good. The OKC Airport Trust has a history of doing things on the cheap.

^I actually like the OKC website. It may have size issues on some pages (like the stats page) but it's way better than the one it replaced. The new one is easier to navigate, the homepage lists all the pertinent information you need to find quickly, and for once the press releases section is consistently updated. That used to be a chronic problem, not so these days, I hope they keep that up. Used to be when we were getting new service announcements, it either used to take forever for that press release to get posted, or it never showed up. The Alerts and Advisories page is also updated regularly.

Now as far as the new TUL website is concerned, I'm not sure why that colour scheme was chosen. On the other hand I do like how the terminal map has been posted as a link right there on the homepage without having to search for it.

One thing that will help the WRWA image, that will cost next to nothing is a new branding campaign. The website needs a total makeover and the logo of Will Rogers standing on the globe with a rope has to go. It's 2012, we are not in the 60's anymore. I know the OKC Airport Trust likes to stick with tradition but there are talented branding companies that can leverage old and new concepts and develop a new brand. Even the Tulsa Int'l Airport has a new brand, which is sleek, modern, and a breath of fresh air. Tulsa International Airport | Travel Above (http://tulsaairports.com/)

Everyone is welcome to their opinion but I have absolutely no problem the current image for WRWA. Sometimes consistancy is important.

^
Agree. I have never heard of anyone complaining about the image or logo.

For the record, why do so many people on here seem to run from this area's western roots? There is nothing special about TUL's website or logo, but the WRWA brand embraces this area's heritage. You are flying into an airport named after Will Rogers, for petes sake. Lots of things in Texas pile on the kitschy cowboy themes with the ubiquitous star everywhere and nobody complains. Yet here we try and do something that reflects our roots to the world and people hang their head in shame? I don't get it.

From a branding standpoint for WRWA, would it make marketing and financial sense if the airport itself was called OKC International and terminal was named after Will Rogers?

From a branding standpoint for WRWA, would it make marketing and financial sense if the airport itself was called OKC International and terminal was named after Will Rogers?

Not really. Besides, an international airport should have at least one daily nonstop international flight, OKC has none. Even the seasonal summer charters to CUN we used to have are long gone. Remember Champion Air?

From a branding standpoint for WRWA, would it make marketing and financial sense if the airport itself was called OKC International and terminal was named after Will Rogers?

It is a joke how much International is abused in airport branding

It is a joke how much International is abused in airport branding

Only requirement is that they have customs available on the airport grounds. That can be either for cargo or passenger.

For all you airline folks -

When are the best fares posted online ? I saw flights from OKC - FFL the other day for 265.00 RT, the very next day they were 388.00. This was on AA for the middle of January.

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are typically the cheapest travel dates.

There's not really a big formula for when they will have a fare sale. Just have to keep an eye out. As seats sell on a flight the price goes up. So, it can vary day to day.

United will be taking Gate 8 soon. And keeping 3, 5, 9, 10 as well.

Why would they do that? 4 gates should be way more than enough for their service and any reasonably likely increase.

Why would they do that? 4 gates should be way more than enough for their service and any reasonably likely increase.

We run 4 gates right now and usually rent a gate (usually Gate 1 or 12) from the city literally every morning and night for those two banks. Also all 4 gates are occupied in the 10am and 2pm banks usually. 5th gate allows more flexibility and more capacity for the morning and evening banks.

Looks like ARINC has started construction of their south ramp extension.

They've mentioned they are looking at building a 3rd hangar sometime in the next few years if demand stays up.

Looks like the TSA has begun to use the West-Auxiliary checkpoint located behind the old Continental counter, which leads to the are between Harold's shoe shine and the EA Sports store. This is for overflow.

Also expect United to start using Gate 8 sometime next month.

Also the fence has gone up for the OKC Police Substation/Heliport on the NE side of the airport (SW corner of SW 54 and S Portland).

When are they supposed to consolidate the security checkpoints?

When are they supposed to consolidate the security checkpoints?

Consolidate? The only changes I had heard of was adding the annex for additional capacity for higher traffic times like holidays, I did not think anything was happening to the normal ones.