Opps... I guess I should have added the USAirways regional airlines for those still using props.

ATR is actually actively looking at a larger turboprop again, as interest has gained quite a bit in a larger turboprop, especially with the higher jet fuel prices in the last few years. Indeed, ATR has been selling its ATR 42s and 72s quite a bit over the last few years, and has also gained large orders for the newest variant, the -600.

Source: http://www.ainonline.com/node/102795

A 90-seat turboprop done right would probably be a popular option I think.

Yeah...ATR is the only one right now. I think a family of props with 46/70/90 seats would do very well. Bombardier had a good start, but they needed to standardize against the Q400.

The ATR is a nice plane, sadly Delta Connection and American Eagle have dumped 'em all. I enjoyed driving to Lawton and seeing the ATR on final approach. Unfortunately, only 19 orders for the Q400 have been placed since last summer. And 2 of those orders were for Horizon. I don't know what it would take to make the prop "right". Lower maintenance costs?

The prop business should have "taken off" (no pun intended) about 7 years ago. Sadly, propplanes are getting dumped faster than purchased here in America.

The problem is we have a bunch of MBAs who are nothing like their predecessors running the airlines now. If I had the money I would love to get my hands on a couple dozen 30-70 seat props and run a point-to-point system throughout the Midwest and Northeast. Much like the USAir, Allegheny, Air Wisky, etc. of old. The biggest obstacle right now is the initial acquisition costs for the new generation props like the Q400. The ATRs then to be a bit better in cost and I really like them. The only thing I'm not a fan of is the rear boarding door instead of through the front, but you can get creative with jetbridge layout to make sure there is properly utilized ramp space with multiple aircraft.

The ATR's were always funky to park. It really depended on the layout of the terminal. Back in my ASA days, we would pull up to the terminal and then swing the plane around so that the nose of the plane was facing the taxiway. In other words, from the terminal, you'd see the butt of the plane. It was to prevent people from having to walk all the way around the plane.

Some terminals are better designed and the ATR will swing in sideways and the jetbridge will feed right toward the back of the plane.

Venture, you should check out Silver Airways. They're a lot like Great Lakes... starting service on EAS routes across Montana soon. SAABs and 1900D aircraft. I wonder if these SAAB's are the old AE 340'S.

Anyone know if Guymon has ever tried to get EAS service via Great Lakes? The way Great Lakes routes flight, it could easily happen via some other city in Kansas.

Some terminals are better designed and the ATR will swing in sideways and the jetbridge will feed right toward the back of the plane.

That's what Eagle did at DFW with its ATR 72-500s at Terminal B. It parked them sideways and the jetway just docked to the rear door. It's a shame they're no longer at DFW, only MIA and SJU (San Juan Int'l) are getting those now. I have a feeling that eventually all ATRs will be relegated to SJU since they do work pretty well for island hopping.

Most of the ATRs are actually just getting parked and pulled out of SJU. There will be some left in MIA from what I've read. SJU is really getting spun down compared to what it use to be for AA.

Yeah AA de-hubbed SJU a few years back. Now Jetblue is filling the void though.

Anyone know if WN's new 737-800's will come to OKC in the near future? Cerainly there's gotta be a few insiders here that know :)

With the ATR's, i think part of the issue with public perception is how public the few accidents they've had, were. If you look at what accidents there have been for the ATR fleet, it's pretty freaking short. If you're comparing to other crash rates, you're looking at a very safe airplane. But the accidents that have happened have been some very publicized ones...like the icing incident in Indiana.

But the props are generally pretty loud and slower. That's a big pull for the public. And hey, the public likes the big birds (admittedly, myself included) and you just don't see props on the big birds these days.

^I don't know if you've flown in the ATR 72-500, but it sounds nothing like a prop during climbout and cruise (especially during cruise). It sounds pretty close to say, a 737 in the cabin. Only on taxiing and takeoff do you hear the props, but ATR has done a pretty good job in terms of minimizing the prop noise. And because it has 6-blade props with more powerful engines, the slight difference in speed is negligeble for runs of approximately an hour or less, which is exactly what they're designed for. I've flown in the 72-500 twice now and liked it both times. The Bombardier Q400 is also just as fast, but that's about all I can say about it. It is loud, and OKC-IAH is about all I can take of that plane. LOL

Anyone know if WN's new 737-800's will come to OKC in the near future? Cerainly there's gotta be a few insiders here that know :)

Unlikely for now. They'll go on higher demand routes until they begin Hawaii service. It is interesting to note that AUS-DCA application mentioned being operated by the 737-800 instead of the 700s. I would think if they get the slots for OKC and the route is strong, we could see a 800 on that route.

Storms in Dallas this morning brought a few visitors.

772 from NRT
M80 from IND
M80 from DSM
738 from LGA
M80 from SLC

Saw the 777 leave a bit ago...pretty site.

^I bet. A few years back when the controllers in the DFW towers had to evacuate because of a possible tornado, OKC got many diversions even though it was raining here too, although it was just a cold rain. At that time OKC had two heavies from Korean Air, a 777-200ER and a 747-400 Freighter. That must have been pretty neat to see parked on the ramp. On another note, AA had a 777 diversion not too long ago as well.

777 from NRT and no one could take a pic. Bummer... :(

777 from NRT and no one could take a pic. Bummer... :(

Well...not that great but...

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I know there is a thread for this already but it does have possibly big implications for OKC:

Yahoo! Finance article on a possible U.S. Airways takeover of AA (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-us-airways-announces-plans-134200566.html).

As expected, there are quite a few people on the blogs and forums not happy with this, but hey, it's the consolidation era and AA is the only one left. Plus, its large Airbus order probably only worked to advance this further.

This indicates it may be posturing and there is no more indication of a merger than before.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-airlines-unions-support-us-airways-merge-135830494--finance.html

^Yes that's why I said "possible", AA's unions have just shown their support for a merger. Of course it's nowhere close to actual merger talks with AMR yet. AMR hasn't even presented its alternate plan in court like the article said.

This indicates it may be posturing and there is no more indication of a merger than before.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-airlines-unions-support-us-airways-merge-135830494--finance.html

Perhaps posturing on the part of the unions, but it shows us more than ever that USAir is dead serious about pursuing a merger.

^Yes that's why I said "possible", AA's unions have just shown their support for a merger. Of course it's nowhere close to actual merger talks with AMR yet. AMR hasn't even presented its alternate plan in court like the article said.

With AMR being in bankruptcy, merger talks with AMR are not necessary for a merger to happen.

We talked about this what...3-4 months back on the possibility this was going to happen. Dougie Parker wants to be #1. He tried to take over Delta, talked with United before the CO marriage, and now AA is the last viable candidate. The supposed labor agreements call for Delta's (#2 in size currently) pay scale + 3%. This brings flash backs of "Parity + 1%" that US Airways had prior to the first bankruptcy. Would this be sustainable? We'll see. Southwest's unions are all in negotiations now I believe as their contracts expire this year or already have. Southwest currently leads the industry in wages (the highest) and normally they get a raise each time a new contract comes out. Chances are we are seeing where DP is taking this into account and know the new AA will have higher yields than WN and can be more competitive at wages still below that of WN. Not bad if they can make it work.

The unions make up 3 of the 9(?) seats on the reorganization committee, so this is pretty big. No it isn't a merger in process right now and US and AMR haven't held publicly acknowledge merger talks. They are running out of time though. If the committee likes what DP is selling they can push this through faster. The synergies between the two is pretty good. The more relaxed Scope of US is great news for smaller communities to get something more than 50 seater. With the strength of AA in Oklahoma it would be good news for us. It should save more jobs for Tulsa and could mean more air service for both TUL (logical to get aircraft there) and OKC (CLT and/or PHL finally).

We'll see what happens. This is a very good way to force US's unions to finally get in line as they'll be outvoted by the AA unions when it comes to integration and contracts.

Continued good news for Will Rogers passenger traffic levels. I'm at a loss to understand why Tulsa is continuing to have problems though.

http://newsok.com/extended-spring-break-boosts-air-travel-at-will-rogers-world-airport/article/3668207

Stillwater is in the early stages of trying to land passenger air service: http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x2086601838/Stillwater-airport-could-host-regional-airline

Not sure Stillwater would be able to land anything without a revenue guarantee to secure the service for at least 18 months. Not sure they would be able to support it or at the very least get any airline to listen.

Not sure Stillwater would be able to land anything without a revenue guarantee to secure the service for at least 18 months. Not sure they would be able to support it or at the very least get any airline to listen.

I agree venture. I think some kind of significant incentives or guarantees would have to in place for this to happen.

Unless I overlooked something, it seems like OKC-DCA will be tough to get on WN. Unless it's being filed under some different slot. I am not sure. But something tells me OKC-DCA has a less than 50% chance of happening. In other news, DCA-COS on F9? Really? I;ll never understand some of the routes that F9 applies for...

Unless I overlooked something, it seems like OKC-DCA will be tough to get on WN. Unless it's being filed under some different slot. I am not sure. But something tells me OKC-DCA has a less than 50% chance of happening. In other news, DCA-COS on F9? Really? I;ll never understand some of the routes that F9 applies for...

Why do you think that will be tough to get?

You know what, I may have misspoken. Forgive my stupidness this evening. I was reading something online and I thought it was saying that the DCA slots had been announced...nevermind, it was just a dude's guess on which routes would be approved. In other news, it appears that the routes will be announced in a few days... :)

You know what, I may have misspoken. Forgive my stupidness this evening. I was reading something online and I thought it was saying that the DCA slots had been announced...nevermind, it was just a dude's guess on which routes would be approved. In other news, it appears that the routes will be announced in a few days... :)

Someone is reading a.net. :-P LOL

That threat is about the Beyond Perimeter Slots being awarded. The OKC-DCA slot is an AIR21 slot (completely different) that was operated by DL on JAN (Jackson MS) to DCA and is currently being temporarily being operated by US on the same route. Indications seem to be that the AIR21 slot award will probably take place pretty close to the other slots being awarded.

My own personal thoughts are that if they award WN the AUS-DCA route that the OKC-DCA route gets awarded too. It just seems to make sense. Of course that also means that it may not happen at all then. LOL It would be tough for WN to just have AUS-DCA and that's it. Of course we could see WN move the DCA-MKE, MCO, and RSW service over to WN metal immediately then from FL. Right now FL operates MKE 4x, MCO 1x, RSW 1x, and ATL 6x. The Florida routes might be okay...RSW could get the ax though. I would expect MKE to go to 1 or 2 flights a day instead. They could then add like 2x to MDW and 1x to STL to get the airport connected to most of the network. Not sure they'll tough the ATL flights right now until the hub is unbanked.

Venture, you know my online habits all too well :) I'm a lurker... not a poster.

Not sure they'll tough the ATL flights right now until the hub is unbanked.

I'm assuming you're talking about DL's hub? ATL was switched to a rolling hub years ago: http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg31841.html

I'm assuming you're talking about DL's hub? ATL was switched to a rolling hub years ago: http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg31841.html


Oops meant to say toss, and no I wasn't talking about DL's hub. :) Consider the context of the post was on WN/FL, I was referring to WN unbanking FL's ATL hub. Just my opinion that it'll eventually happen, haven't heard anything confirming it yet.

^Ahh ok, yeah. It will likely happen, WN spreads out its flights at its busiest stations.

Looks like the flights were awarded today and we didn't get the Southwest route to Reagan National.

Looks like the flights were awarded today and we didn't get the Southwest route to Reagan National.

These were the beyond perimeter slot awards only, not the AIR21 slots. There hasn't been any word yet on those...chances are it'll stay with US Airways, but giving WN a slot at DCA now could mean things are more likely for us.

These were the beyond perimeter slot awards only, not the AIR21 slots. There hasn't been any word yet on those...chances are it'll stay with US Airways, but giving WN a slot at DCA now could mean things are more likely for us.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I had read that we were beyond the perimeter by just a few miles, but clearly I was mistaken. Any word on when the flights will be awarded?

The decision is expected any day. It would do a lot of good OKC especially in the WN world. Not only providing connections (for WN) to markets such as DEN, LAS, PHX, and DAL...but also all of the one stop markets from the west that will bring people through here. The flights will also be very high yielding flights which could open us up to getting a 738 at sometime.

Looks like April traffic was up. Another good month.

link (http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/April%20Enplanement%202012.pdf)

Is there a thread for the new consolidated rental car facility being built? Should there be?

Is there a thread for the new consolidated rental car facility being built? Should there be?

It's been mentioned and discussed here starting at post number 69 and on.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26061&page=3

There's not really enough there to devote an entire thread to it.

I was thinking now that we're doing the "article" thing there could at least be an article until there's more to discuss...

Lokks like DL has intentions of subleasing the newly acquired 717-200s by WN, subject to final pilot ratification:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1624

It would be nice to have a 712 or two to ATL once every now and then.

Still uncertain if DL ALPA will approve this. The membership is not happy with the addition of 70 more larger regional jets. They will eliminate 50-seat jets though, so it shouldn't be much of an issue.

All in all this is good for WN. The company wants to be 737 only and the plan is to keep increasing capacity to spread costs out more. Also good for Boeing in being able to find a very good home for these to make the air frame attractive on the used market.

The draw back here, it probably means WN to ATL isn't going to happen for awhile since the company will be capacity neutral for a bit. We'll have to wait and see what the ATL hub looks like after FL is fully integrated though.

The 717-200 was a very weird airplane for the BA family. It followed the look and feel of the MD family but was built firmly by BA. Good airplane that could have done extremely well. Airlines loved the plane by itself, but it was tough to have in a BA fleet because it had a different style cockpit and required a whole different type of flight testing for pilots. You couldn't just go from being a 737 pilot to a 717 pilot. The birth of the CRJ-700/900 and EMB family really hit the 717 hard.

So, what I am saying is that the 717 is a good plane, but it fit no-where in the WN family. Though me would have liked to see a 717 freshly painted in WN colors...

The 717 had promise, but Boeing didn't want to invest in developing the 717-300 to create a family for it. It would have encroached too much on the 737 and it wasn't about to let the MD-95 (the original name) take away from that. Had they done the stretch we probably would have seen NW and AA jump at it them to replace the DC-9s in their fleets. The 717s in DL should finish off replacing the DC-9-50s. Of course the 737 and potentially the A320 (if the order goes through) will be taking care of the DC-9-80s with AA... albeit over a fairly lengthy time.

This is about as close as we'll get to seeing it...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5096529967_ef306ceb2a.jpg

^All things considered, as a commercial aviation junkie, this plane and the 757 are both on my list of getting to experience one day. Hopefully both in one trip :).

The 757 is a blast to fly, especially taking off out of DCA or MDW. I am like you and want to get on the 717 one day and at least DL will keep them flying for awhile. I wouldn't be shocked to see OKC-ATL switched over to all 717s.

My heart still belongs to...

http://www.auctiontransportation.com/sites/airlinephoto/images/0000229799_1.jpg

I love the 757. It's a blast on short runways. Try taking it in and out of Jackson Hole. I fly in there once or twice a winter and hardly ever do we not do one heck of a engine runup before releasing the brakes. Those Rolls Royce engines are freakin awesome. There's never a 757 TO that does not go un-filmed by me.

Venture, im surprised you don't have that pic being your profile pic.

Looks like Delta has increased the frequency of the MD-88 to 3-times daily through early September for the Atlanta flights. Sunday-Friday there appears to be 2 morning MD-88 flights, a midday CRJ-900, a mid-afternoon MD-88 (great for international connections in ATL), and an evening CRJ-900. Saturday is the same minus the evening CRJ-900.

^That's awesome. Good to see more mainline between ATL and OKC. Hopefully some of that translates to DTW as well. DL also had a 738 daily for a few months this spring, it's been a while since we had a 738 at OKC.

There was a response last month from Southwest to the DOT in regards to demands by US Airways and Frontier to deny the OKC-DCA application by WN. No response is out yet. The latest update a couple of weeks ago is that it is still under consideration on what to do with the AIR 21 slot. Going by the WN response, they have a slam dunk here and should win the slot. It pretty clearly points out US Airways' poor utilization of the DCA slots it already has. I would have to agree with them. I personally think that DCA slots should to be used to serve as many cities as possible to connect to the Nation's capital...not provide a connecting hub. Unfortunately US hasn't really followed this. It is somewhat disturbing that they won't maintain JAN service by reallocating a slot that is on another route that is probably over saturated with frequencies. Especially a route operated by multiple RJs a day versus mainline aircraft.

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Anyone at the airport this morning able to get a pic of the Emirates 777 diversion from DFW?

Anyone at the airport this morning able to get a pic of the Emirates 777 diversion from DFW?
No :( but it was huge.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASQ4711

What a great way to see Oklahoma. A few diverts dropped into KOKC lastnight....

There was a response last month from Southwest to the DOT in regards to demands by US Airways and Frontier to deny the OKC-DCA application by WN. No response is out yet. The latest update a couple of weeks ago is that it is still under consideration on what to do with the AIR 21 slot. Going by the WN response, they have a slam dunk here and should win the slot. It pretty clearly points out US Airways' poor utilization of the DCA slots it already has. I would have to agree with them. I personally think that DCA slots should to be used to serve as many cities as possible to connect to the Nation's capital...not provide a connecting hub. Unfortunately US hasn't really followed this. It is somewhat disturbing that they won't maintain JAN service by reallocating a slot that is on another route that is probably over saturated with frequencies. Especially a route operated by multiple RJs a day versus mainline aircraft.

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Not sure I would call this a slam dunk, however, when do you think a decison on the route will be made? the out of perimeter decision which included the decision for Austin was filed a week or so later and has been made.

Not sure I would call this a slam dunk, however, when do you think a decison on the route will be made? the out of perimeter decision which included the decision for Austin was filed a week or so later and has been made.

Well which is why I stated if going by the WN response...they pretty much nailed every concern going against them. However, US Airways has a massive support group in DC that would probably still give it to them.

Austin was a beyond perimeter slot...the AIR 21 decision should be in by the end of the month.

I hope OKC gets it as this could be the flight we need to get OKC into the annual 4M+ pax class.

Has the decision on these routes still not been made?