I'm just talking about the plaza as well.

I'm just talking about the plaza as well.

How do you think I took all those photos then?? ;)

How do you think I took all those photos then?? ;)

Magic?

How do you think I took all those photos then?? ;)

lol definitely magic. How else do you explain all the hard work that goes into this site

How do you think I took all those photos then?? ;)

Figured you were sitting your couch at home while your drone did the work. ;)

Pete, when I went inside, the ceilings looked fresher, brighter than the last time I was in there. Maybe they were just cleaned?

Curious about the “intermodal” part of this project, does that include just the streetcar and Amtrak? Obviously commuter rail in the future. What about buses will they stop here, and will there still be a need for a separate bus station at NW 4 & Hudson?

Curious about the “intermodal” part of this project, does that include just the streetcar and Amtrak? Obviously commuter rail in the future. What about buses will they stop here, and will there still be a need for a separate bus station at NW 4 & Hudson?

The consultants who did the "Intermodal" study for ACOG had to use that term since it was funded through a federal grant. Technically, if you can walk to it, that's one mode. If you put a bike rack in front, that's two. With streetcar stop across the street on Gaylord, that's three. Park your motor vehicle, that's four. Ride Amtrack, five. Future Greyhound (long commute) bus relocates its station or stops/departs from Santa Fe Station, that's six. It sounds silly, but it really is "intermodal."

From that study, here is a pie-in-the-sky site plan:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe12.jpg

We are being held up by BNSF on the 2nd phase part and the tunnel that is to traverse underneath.

No surprise there. They held up the bricktown landing underpass. Why _wouldn't_ they hold up this one....

We are being held up by BNSF on the 2nd phase part and the tunnel that is to traverse underneath.

UP, is the City planning to do the platform improvements as depicted in ACOG's Master Plan?

For those of you who haven't read it, the proposed master plan from 2011 is honestly pretty exciting and I hope it gets built largely as described. I'm most excited about the possibility for a dedicated space for Amtrak that includes baggage facilities. The study that Pete references can be found here: http://www.acogok.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/hubreport.pdf The master plan for the station begins on Page 46.

No surprise there. They held up the bricktown landing underpass. Why _wouldn't_ they hold up this one....

That was Union Pacific.

That was Union Pacific.
If we are talking about the elevation, it’s the BNSF, spent 38 years riding trains on it.

Hey Pete do you have a more recent aerial photo from this whole section? I'm curious if the rail is fully in the West side of EKG?

Hey Pete do you have a more recent aerial photo from this whole section? I'm curious if the rail is fully in the West side of EKG?

From this weekend:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180052718.jpg

Thanks Pete! Your drone shots are easily some of the best shots in the city in keeping up with all the construction!

Work set to start on tunnel connecting Bricktown to Santa Fe Station (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=518-Work-set-to-start-on-tunnel-connecting-Bricktown-to-Santa-Fe-Station)

Oklahoma City's historic Santa Fe station reopened last December after a thorough renovation paid for by MAPS 3 and federal funds.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel070618c.jpg


The large plaza in front of the station was also completely reworked and construction is finishing on a section of EK Galylord Boulevard that fronts the old train depot.

Today, the city filed a $6.6 million building permit applicaiton for the next phase of this project which will involve tunneling under the railroad tracks and directly connecting the station to the western end of Bricktown.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel070618b.jpg


The original timeline called for the tunnel to already be completed but there were long delays due to obtaining the required permission from BNSF railroad.

The project will take over a year and then lead to the final phase, a large plaza as you exit the tunnel overlooking the western terminus of the Bricktown Canal.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel070618a.jpg


The long-term plan is for the Cox Convention Center to be demolished to allow for the expansion of the Central Business District to the south. The city commissioned a study to determine the highest and best use of the property as the new MAPS 3 convention center – now under construction and slated for 2020 completion – will render the Cox Center redundant.

Particularly if the Cox Center is pulled down and made available for private development, Santa Fe Station will be an even more prominent gateway to Bricktown, and the tunnel would serve as a link to the central business district.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel070618f.jpg


Currently Santa Fe Station serves Amtrak trains but in the longer term it is envisioned as a true multi-modal hub, with commuter rail, busses and a future street car stop.

The entire Santa Fe Station project is budgeted at $28.4 million and work should start on the tunnel this August.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel070618h.jpg

Did the tunnel opening design change? Seems different. But it HAS been a long while...

Did the tunnel opening design change? Seems different. But it HAS been a long while...

No, it hasn't changed.

The original timeline showed this entire project completed by 2015.

well, it looks better to me now, perhaps just with age.

At this point, the idea of tearing down the Cox Center just seems unrealistic. We've got tons of prime land downtown where nothing is getting built. The Stage Center lot, the Ford Dealership site south of the Myriad Gardens, both of these areas are currently empty and there doesn't appear to be any movement whatsoever with developing them. Why tear up something that is functional in order to have more vacant land sitting there?

Long term, I think the Cox site could be turned into OKC's version of Rockefeller Center -- a complex of a bunch of buildings all surrounding a central plaza with public art and entertainment options. It could be a show-stopper for OKC. But that won't happen without major money devoted to it, and that won't happen if there are large chunks of "just as good" land available on all sides of the Myriad Gardens. That other stuff has to fill up first.

Good idea hoya about an OKC Rockerfeller Center development...

We have 2020 agreements with the CVB, SMG & Omni that will put the Cox Convention Center on notice; MAPS 3 CC will be marketed by CVB & SMG (facility management) as the city's main convention center. Sure, we're not in a hurry to demolish CCC and we do have other sites like the Ford & Stage Center lots--wouldn't wait on private development or current owners for these to fill up who could have plans 5-15 years away.

If our convention center & hotel are successful; Omni still have first rights on the Cox site if a hotel development comes into play.

MAPS 3 convention center will open in 2020. The 4-square block Cox site could become a divided parcel (option) with underground parking in tack; get it ready for development. There are numerous possibilities for the cox site if we divide it 2, 3 or 4 parcels; you avoid the whole site being held up by one development.

At this point, the idea of tearing down the Cox Center just seems unrealistic. We've got tons of prime land downtown where nothing is getting built. The Stage Center lot, the Ford Dealership site south of the Myriad Gardens, both of these areas are currently empty and there doesn't appear to be any movement whatsoever with developing them. Why tear up something that is functional in order to have more vacant land sitting there?

Because those properties being vacant are a function of their private ownership, not an overall lack of interest in developing the heart of downtown.

This would be very different in that the city owns the property and can put it out for RFP. We just saw no less than 5 respondents for the housing surrounding the convention center garage.

Plus this property is super primo. I have no doubt they would get lots of interested developers.

Because those properties being vacant are a function of their private ownership, not an overall lack of interest in developing the heart of downtown.

This would be very different in that the city owns the property and can put it out for RFP. We just saw no less than 5 respondents for the housing surrounding the convention center garage.

Plus this property is super primo. I have no doubt they would get lots of interested developers.

I know it will never happen, but I wish the city would subdivide the entire lot. Build in the grid. And auction off individual parcels with strict development criteria. This way we could have 10-15 developers and restore some human scale development. I have a feeling we’ll end up with a giant development that remains a pedestrian barrier.

I know it will never happen, but I wish the city would subdivide the entire lot. Build in the grid. And auction off individual parcels with strict development criteria. This way we could have 10-15 developers and restore some human scale development. I have a feeling we’ll end up with a giant development that remains a pedestrian barrier.

Actually, I do think the general idea is to insist on the grid being restored and then having multiple developers.

Actually, I do think the general idea is to insist on the grid being restored and then having multiple developers.

Good to know! Thanks

I just found out today that the eastbound linkages to Santa Fe Station are potentially threatened again. There is a major proposal in the works. It is entirely possible that the developer may do due diligence in preserving the required alignment per the study that was completed. Until the final plans are revealed in the coming week or so, no one on the public side really knows. The proposal is being contained within committee.

14740

I bet the Karchmer garage is back on, along with underground link, since Continental wants Santa Fe garage. If that's the case, didn't the old Karchmer plans accommodate the rail?

didn't the old Karchmer plans accommodate the rail?

The earliest plans were proposed with the request that we consider other ways of connecting to Santa Fe Station that included fairly substantial operational inconveniences to passengers. I am not sure what has been subsequently proposed that you may be referring to. Regarding an underground link, it is not necessarily impossible but definitely will require substantial clout and thorough engineering from the parties involved with monies and a sound plan towards BNSF.

Here is a video on the matter with detailed explanations about the issues at the time. We will just have to wait and see if this new proposal provides the easement required to accommodate the alignment per the study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutwzcPP8TI

The earliest plans were proposed with the request that we consider other ways of connecting to Santa Fe Station that included fairly substantial operational inconveniences to passengers. I am not sure what has been subsequently proposed that you may be referring to. Regarding an underground link, it is not necessarily impossible but definitely will require substantial clout and thorough engineering from the parties involved with monies and a sound plan towards BNSF.

Here is a video on the matter with detail explanations about the issues at the time. We will just have to wait and see if this new proposal provides the easement required to accommodate the alignment per the study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nutwzcPP8TI
UP - when do you think we’ll hear about these new plans? Later this week?

UP - when do you think we’ll hear about these new plans? Later this week?

Probably. They involve some fairly major public assets. I don't know if all of the plans are being revealed as one block of proposals or if this will be a staggered process due to all of the various parties involved.

Probably. They involve some fairly major public assets. I don't know if all of the plans are being revealed as one block of proposals or if this will be a staggered process due to all of the various parties involved.
Very interesting. Thank you for the reply!

This is the final schematic for the Bricktown Plaza, where the new tunnel will connect the station to Bricktown.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bricktownplaza092218a.jpg

when is it expected to start/finish?

How does that schematic sit relative to the end of the canal? I can't place in my mind which side goes where.

when is it expected to start/finish?

My understanding is that the tunnel pricing came in too high and now there is another delay.

I honestly have no idea when this is going to even start, let alone finish.

My understanding is that the tunnel pricing came in too high and now there is another delay.

I honestly have no idea when this is going to even start, let alone finish.

Is it even still happening?

How does that schematic sit relative to the end of the canal? I can't place in my mind which side goes where.

Left is north. So the canal enters the picture at the top of the page and Santa Fe is at the bottom.

Left is north. So the canal enters the picture at the top of the page and Santa Fe is at the bottom.

Ahh, I see it now, thanks.

City Council is set to vote on Tuesday to increase architectural fees to TAP for changes to the Santa Fe Station.

The Oklahoman reported that the City has to spend federal grant funds by June. The headline of that article says "City to drop Santa Fe station tunnel connection to Bricktown" but that isn't true, as you can see in the memo that is part of the council agenda for Tuesday.

In order to spend the federal funds before they expire, they are planning to move forward with other improvements to the plaza to the north of the station.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafestation122818a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafestation122818ba.jpg

So does this mean more “value engineering” will be the end result?

Isn't there a tunnel that pretty much goes to Bricktown anyway?

Isn't there a tunnel that pretty much goes to Bricktown anyway?

No.

Only way to get there from the CBD are sidewalks and underpasses at Reno, Sheridan and Main.

l ask because there used to be a tunnel you could take under the tracks to get to stairs leading up to the train platform. l figured this either went through or wouldn't take much to finish through.

l ask because there used to be a tunnel you could take under the tracks to get to stairs leading up to the train platform. l figured this either went through or wouldn't take much to finish through.

Oh, right. That is still there and the idea was to continue it on into Bricktown.

was?

isn't it "the idea IS to continue it into Bricktown"

was?

isn't it "the idea IS to continue it into Bricktown"

I believe the project was recently canceled.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafestation122818ba.jpg

Not cancelled, just rescheduled.

Works starts on improving connection between downtown and Bricktown (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=569-Works-starts-on-improving-connection-between-downtown-to-Bricktown)


Plans for a tunnel from Bricktown to Santa Fe Station could be used at a later time but are now delayed in favor of enhancing current routes to the facility and the entertainment district.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tunnel012419a.jpg


The downtown Oklahoma City transportation hub will not feature a tunnel connecting Santa Fe Station to Bricktown, but the city has started work on ehancing the existing connections for pedestrians.

“The intermodal hub for Oklahoma City is a large project that included the remodel at the existing Santa Fe Station. It also included the reconstruction of a plaza area in the area that faces E.K. Gaylord [Boulevard],” said Eric Wenger, director of OKC’s public works department. “The project also included anticipated work to construct a pedestrian tunnel, one that’s partially constructed, but to finish that construction underneath the railroad tracks and into Bricktown.”

The pedestrian tunnel to connect the Santa Fe Station to Bricktown has been scrapped from the current project as two separate bids came back over budget, Wenger said. But he said it is something that could be considered in the future.

The Santa Fe Station building and the plaza are already complete, and portions of the rest of the work are already underway, Wenger said, including improvements to the Bricktown side of the railroad structure.

“There is an alternate plan to enhance the pedestrian connection between the intermodal hub and Bricktown by sending a new project out for bids that’s going to provide a lot of pedestrian amenities and upgrades to the tunnels existing on both Sheridan and Reno,” he said, “and then making that physical connection to Bricktown and the pedestrians in that area.”

Construction is underway on the Bricktown Canal side of the project, which will include an upper viewing terrace with a grand staircase and a landscaped lower plaza area.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519a.jpg


That work is part of the final phase of the project, but a second package to the phase is what is going out to bid to make further enhancements. Wenger said the enhancements include improved lighting, walkability and access with railings and fences to help separate pedestrians from traffic.

“The original project always anticipated an enhanced pedestrian connection, so we’re maintaining those pedestrian enhancements,” he said. “Although we can’t do it with the tunnel, we’re going to do it the way that I just described, using some alternative improvements that are not through or under the railroads but going around and using those existing tunnels.”

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519b.jpg


The city also submitted a $1.35 million building permit for platform improvements at the station, including lighting, painting, remodeling stairs and improving the elevator.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012419e.jpg


“The platform is actually part of the third phase,” Wenger said, “and that work is underway and it’s actually already in contract and has a contractor that’s working. That’s really to enhance the accessibility for the Amtrak service and the Heartland Flyer.”

Since completing the Santa Fe building and the plaza, Wenger said they have seen a tremendous amount of activity. He said the city is looking forward to completing the project which has been underway for several years.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tunnel012419b.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tunnel012419d.jpg

Bummer that the tunnel is scrapped.

It the playground on the south side of the canal, where the blue container is on the picture, gone for good ?
It was a nice break in a downtown walk for my daughter.

So without the tunnel how do you get from the canal to the transit hub, go all the way around to Sheridan?

“Although we can’t do it with the tunnel, we’re going to do it the way that I just described, using some alternative improvements that are not through or under the railroads but going around and using those existing tunnels.”

This is such a confusing statement. Is he referring to the overpasses as "existing tunnels" or is he referring to using the existing tunnel that goes to the train platform.

This is such a confusing statement. Is he referring to the overpasses as "existing tunnels" or is he referring to using the existing tunnel that goes to the train platform.

Yes, I'm sure he means the underpasses under Reno and Sheridan.

from today

15200

15201

from today

15200

15201

The end of those stairs would be a great place for a tunnel. :rolleyes:

I see some construction happening up on the platform too... I'm curious to know what the plan is up there!