If so, they could add a lane on NW Expressway and make it a bus only lane.

So is the first graphic something they have accepted? That's the first time I think I've seen that. Or this that what Jacobs is proposing?

So is the first graphic something they have accepted? That's the first time I think I've seen that. Or this that what Jacobs is proposing?

The renderings are all part of an application that goes to the Bricktown Design Review Committee on Dec. 10th.

They are just looking to gain approval for the tunnel opening, stairway, etc.

Also, there is an existing tunnel that takes passengers from the station under the tracks and to the other side. That tunnel will merely be extended through the wall creating the link with Bricktown but it would also mean losing this amazing mural (the new opening would punch through the far wall and be opened considerably):

Photo credit to Alonzo Adams:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transitnew6.jpg

I guess I misunderstood the way the "tunnel" was working.

I was under the impression that it would be an exterior opening. Much like what it across from the Santa Fe Garage that pedestrains use to cross EKG. I was picturing a nice big opening for pedestrians to access the Bricktown Canal - basically through the wall where the current AMTRAK parking lot is.

In the early conceptual plan, it did show another tunnel leading from a new transit hall (would be future expansion) with another tunnel but that didn't even go all the way through; just access to the tracks:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit5.jpg

Based on the picture Pete tweeted (https://twitter.com/OKCTalk/status/540573885414912000) earlier when he posted the article, I was assuming the opening will be right at the end of the canal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4CBFW3CUAAH5NT.jpg:large

I'm not seeing this image anywhere in the article or the thread, though, so I'm not 100% on that.

David, go to this article in the News section:

OKCTalk - First look at the Intermodal Transit Hub (http://www.okctalk.com/content/80-first-look-intermodal-transit-hub.html)

I'm looking at it, and I'm not seeing that picture anywhere.

Don't know why you can't see it -- it's there.

Don't know why you can't see it -- it's there.

I also can only see this photo on Twitter.

I can't see it either.

Hate to pile on, Pete, but it's not there for me either.

This is the weirdest thing ever.

Can you guys see these?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transitnew1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transitnew2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transitnew3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transitnew4.jpg

None of those, just these 4:

http://i.gyazo.com/33ef0c4d5ae925886493661f0265f725.png

I would rather no parking spaces be in the future plans. The streetcar will be in veteran status by the time this full Hub is going - why do we need parking spaces next to the Hub? By 2030 there will be parking garages all over the CBD and Bricktown.


Also now that I see the tunnel into Bricktown is through the station itself, is this going to be open 24 hours (I assume it is due to it being the hub.)

Maybe this is why I was so confused with the article. I couldn't see the other pics.

the only people who could see them are Martin and Pete, thus leading me to believe it is a permissions issue with where they are hosted on the site.

I would rather no parking spaces be in the future plans. The streetcar will be in veteran status by the time this full Hub is going - why do we need parking spaces next to the Hub? By 2030 there will be parking garages all over the CBD and Bricktown.


I agree 100%.

BTW, I've actually noticed similar issues before with the article where it feels like the full article is not showing.

It's fixed now -- kind of.

Very, very bizarre problem with editing and updating the articles.

BTW, I've actually noticed similar issues before with the article where it feels like the full article is not showing.

I just logged out as admin and looked at all the articles in non-registered mode and all the articles showed up in full.

I cleared the system cache and I think that has fixed the problem.

Okay, so when I asked this, I was referring to what Matt screencapped. Those graphics are not relevant, correct?


So is the first graphic something they have accepted? That's the first time I think I've seen that. Or this that what Jacobs is proposing?

Those graphics are from earlier and still apply to the general plan for the hub but were done about a year ago.

I can't see the images in the article that Catch captured above, but now I'm able to see Pete's photos in the article. Weird deal.

I can't see the images in the article that Catch captured above, but now I'm able to see Pete's photos in the article. Weird deal.

I took those out for now.

There we go, it's more or less a completely different article now. One that I really like, too, it'll be a game changer for the very end of the canal.

I agree 100%.

of course you do ;)

we're talking 30 spaces here. i'm not crazy about the 23 space lot, but it makes for decent short term parking if you're seeing someone off, picking someone up, etc. an all encompassing plan that serves all transit modes in some manner is what OKC needs.

I would rather no parking spaces be in the future plans.

Totally agree about the parking spaces. I actually can't even envision who would use them. At most there should be a kiss-and-ride drop-off lane. They also need a place for buses, both city and potential future tourist buses (you never know).

Totally agree about the parking spaces. I actually can't even envision who would use them. At most there should be a kiss-and-ride drop-off lane. They also need a place for buses, both city and potential future tourist buses (you never know).

I'm no fan of surface parking, but 26 spaces seems reasonable. Picking someone up from an Amtrak or Tulsa rail trip; Dropping your sweetheart off for a trip, but want to take 15 minutes to walk the Bricktown Canal before they go; a place to park TimeCar vehicles; etc.; etc;. Of course all of that could be done in a parking garage, and I'd prefer that, but short term, metered parking might make the hub more useful for people whose ultimate starting point or destination is outside the service area of the transit plan.

Totally agree about the parking spaces. I actually can't even envision who would use them. At most there should be a kiss-and-ride drop-off lane. They also need a place for buses, both city and potential future tourist buses (you never know).

Employees?

I'm no fan of surface parking, but 26 spaces seems reasonable. Picking someone up from an Amtrak or Tulsa rail trip; Dropping your sweetheart off for a trip, but want to take 15 minutes to walk the Bricktown Canal before they go; a place to park TimeCar vehicles; etc.; etc;. Of course all of that could be done in a parking garage, and I'd prefer that, but short term, metered parking might make the hub more useful for people whose ultimate starting point or destination is outside the service area of the transit plan.

Why would a person from an out-lying area drive all the way downtown to pick someone up when that same person could just take regional rail to the out-lying area. Instead of picking them up in downtown OKC they could pick them up in downtown Norman/Edmond/MWC and someday Yukon.

of course you do ;)

we're talking 30 spaces here. i'm not crazy about the 23 space lot, but it makes for decent short term parking if you're seeing someone off, picking someone up, etc. an all encompassing plan that serves all transit modes in some manner is what OKC needs.

True, I didn't really think about that. I would like them to go away in the future though when the garage is put in.

The parking is for the restaraunt and Pinkitzle.

The parking is for the restaraunt and Pinkitzle.

Duh...completely missed that

The parking is for the restaraunt and Pinkitzle.

Dozens and dozens of downtown retailers and restaurants operate without their own dedicated parking and this hub will see thousands of pedestrians everyday plus the people who live in the area. At some point we have to stop accommodating the car when planning this stuff. It is a downtown mass transit hub and the largest land use is still parking.

Also, I am not a fan of Gaylord Plaza unless the Gaylord family is going to kick in some money here. The street is already named after them but we shouldn't be applying that name to adjacent public developments. I would call it California Plaza since that is the street that terminates there.

For those of you wanting to keep the Cox Center, here is what you see when you step out of this transit hub; note there isn't even a sidewalk along the west side of EKG. I tried to walk along there not long ago and it was challenging to say the least.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coxsf.jpg

EKG is one of the most unpleasant streets to walk along in all of DT. Which is really sad because it is one of the most heavily traveled by pedestrians. The entire east side has a worn path in the grass from people walking. And the amount of people who jaywalk across from the Santa Fe Garage is frightening.

The entire street needs to be exploded. Is the hold on this street in P180 - due to the hub/streetcar implementation?

The Cox Center isn't even shown on the hub renderings and California St. is shown connecting to EKG.

Right, you can't find any future drawings that show the Cox Center still in place. The side facing Robinson is even more embarrassing since it fronts the gardens.

Everyone assumes it's a goner and as far as I'm concerned, that monolithic piece of tilt-up concrete can't be bulldozed fast enough.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of this report, but at the time it was being built back in the mid-70s I was told that much of the design of the Myriad (as it was then known) was done by a lad just out of high school who was working in the city engineer's office. The look of the building certainly adds credence to this. And the reported designer just happened to be the roommate of my eldest son...

Pete, are you going to add the newest images to this thread/wiki up top? I keep having to go back to page 3 and find them.

Thanks for the reminder.

They are added now.

Convention Center architects have historically been very bad at place-making and pedestrian orientation, in part because of the enormous exhibit space they are dealing with. How do you dress up 400' of continuous wall to make it pleasing to pedestrians? In Howard Kunstler's TED Talk presentation he speculates on the meeting between architects designing the Saratoga Springs, NY convention center and what they said to each other after spending all their time, effort, and money on the front and realizing they still had 3 side to go. He showed a picture of one of the sides and says the last words were, "Oh **** it!"

How Bad Architecture Wreck Cities
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I don't know if this is open to the public. but for those who are interested.

Santa Fe Station plans feature tunnel linking downtown Oklahoma City, Bricktown | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/santa-fe-station-plans-feature-tunnel-linking-downtown-oklahoma-city-bricktown/article/5373410)


Architects will discuss the designs at 9 a.m. Wednesday with the Bricktown Urban Design Committee at the Bricktown Police Substation, 219 E Main St.

The east facing entrance of the tunnel above the canal looks kinda funny the way the walls step back. Neon, since it's popping up everywhere downtown, should be incorporated into those walls. That would looks pretty fancy!

I also wanted to add that I enjoy the fact that EK Gaylord is 2 lanes in each direction in this rendering. Very appropriate. I agree that the parking spaces around the station are a good thing in the short term but they should be removed as time warrants with the addition of commuter rail service.

As part of the presentation to the design review committee, TAP included these examples of what could be done with the tunnel:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sftunnelideas.jpg

The step back is designed to open the tunnel up, let light in and avoid the creation of a closed-in, dark corridor. There are also a number of other considerations related to programming, tenants, and other elements.

JTF, I agree with you about the name. Urbanized is tight about the light issue. The width of the opening is exciting to me. This desgn has many issues though and I hope that these plans are very, very preliminary.

I don't know if this is open to the public. but for those who are interested.

Santa Fe Station plans feature tunnel linking downtown Oklahoma City, Bricktown | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/santa-fe-station-plans-feature-tunnel-linking-downtown-oklahoma-city-bricktown/article/5373410)

It's an open meeting -- all City meetings are, except executive sessions which are rare.

Can anyone post the details of this?

Depot debate: MAPS 3 committee member protests Santa Fe station renderings | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/12/10/depot-debate-maps-3-committee-member-protests-santa-fe-station-renderings-real-estate/)

From Bill Crum's update.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5374811?embargo=1


The tunnel between downtown and Bricktown via the renovated Santa Fe Station must be an inviting experience for pedestrians, architects said Wednesday.

The walkway will be dug beneath the BNSF Railway tracks, between the historic railroad depot and a terrace overlooking the Bricktown Canal.

Architects described a well-lit space, air-conditioned with glass doors at either end. Art installations could enliven the walk.

Jeff Bezdek, a streetcar advocate and member of a MAPS 3 streetcar advisory group, told committee members and the architects that he had hoped the designs would do more to connect the depot to streetcar stops on Reno and Sheridan avenues.

As part of the presentation to the design review committee, TAP included these examples of what could be done with the tunnel:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sftunnelideas.jpg

A great opportunity to continue building the character of the area. Will something creative and bold like the above be seriously pursued? Or will it turn out to be another sterile attempt at something that could have been more? I see the idea as an opportunity to set it aside and entice people to walk through it. Make it interactive. Don't just hang up some fancy art and call it a day.

More details and renderings of Intermodal Transit Hub (http://www.okctalk.com/content/105-more.html)

At today's City Council Meeting, Public Works Director Eric Wenger provided an update to the Council on the renovation of the Santa Fe Depot, which will serve as an intermodal transit hub.

Renovation design plans are in the early stages, with the project expected to be complete in two years.

The transit hub will help link transit modes like Amtrak and the future MAPS 3 modern streetcar, and also include retail and dining. Designs will leave room to accommodate other modes that could come to downtown Oklahoma City in the future like commuter rail and high-speed trains.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315k.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315i.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315m.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315l.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315g.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315h.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315b.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315f.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315e.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315c.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/transit020315d.jpg

Pete, do you know if Pinkitzel will stay in place or forced out?

All three of those pink spaces are theirs right? Seems like no then? (for them staying)

Gaylord looks like it might be asphalt. That better not be the case. All P180 streets were to be in cement and I hope the same goes for Gaylord.

I think they are staying. No reason for them to move.

oh good