Mike, I'm not defending Paterno in the least. I've never been a fan of his. If you read the previous posts, someone was wondering if he was personally involved in some of the abuse and that was what I was responding to. I know you love to try to find fault with a post of mine but you're barking up the wrong tree here since I agree with what you're thinking and applaud his firing.

Just turn that bolded part around and we're on the same page.

Just turn that bolded part around and we're on the same page.

Omg lets just move on. No offense towards you or anyone else but come on.

Just turn that bolded part around and we're on the same page.

I certainly do disagree with you often but it's not when we're in accord about something like we are here. LOL
At least try to know what my position is before you attack it.

What is REALLY sad about this whole situation is that adults didn't protect innocent children.

They surely would have, had the children been little girls, rather than little boys.

They surely would have, had the children been little girls, rather than little boys.

I have doubts on that.

Paterno might not have physically touched a child, but he sure has hell covered up for a person who he knew was doing it.

Somebody put it this way and I thought it was an interesting thought:

If the GA or Paterno had known about the rape of a 10 year-old boy in their facilities but didn't know the person committing the crime, do you still think they would have done nothing other than tell an administrator a day or two after the fact?

No, so it there was probably more difference in who was doing the raping, rather than the sex of the child. Maybe if Penn State had a mediocre football program with more losses than wins, this controversy would not have been allowed to grow where it has.

I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with this. :(

I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with this. :(

I agree, everytime you watch the news or ESPN, there's more stuff out there. Now, they're throwing bricks through Sandusky's windows, and death threats to the GA. It will be an interesting game vs Nebraska.

I agree, everytime you watch the news or ESPN, there's more stuff out there. Now, they're throwing bricks through Sandusky's windows, and death threats to the GA. It will be an interesting game vs Nebraska.

Nebraska's President (or AD) told the Nebrasksa fans going to the game to try and blend in with the crowd. He told them to leave their Nebraska gear at home and if they absolutely have to wear something Nebraska to wear a jacket over it to cover it up.

I hear tell that rumor has it that when the 2012 hardbound editions of The Oxford Dictionary and The Encyclopaediae Brittanicus Americanus come out both will feature a foto of Joe Paterno next to the unexpurgated definition of the term "asshole buddy" . . .

But it's only a rumor with no basis in fact.

In fact I doubt that it will affect the point spread regarding the outcome of the battle with the "cornhuskers" from Nebraska, tomorrow.

Not that there's anything worng with that . . .

Edited to Add:
So . . . Bunty . . . Wuzzup with all the naysayin'? 'bout "shower manners/protocol/etc.so fo't
In Short: WTF?

Also Edited to Add:
Major Props to Pete's Comment/Quote, above a few post back, perspective-wise . . .
Back to you, Bunty . . .

One of the best perspectives I've read recently.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7221684/the-tragedy-penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-joe-paterno

Tru Dat. (Ref. Article Citation)
Especially on the "Honor" front.
Even if the guy is 80+ years old.
He damn sure should have know better.
And he proved it.

(at least on this level of existence . . .)

And, selfishly, I am so thankful that I don't worship "celebrities" of any stripe or description because otherwise I would be as disappointed and hurt as those zombies in Pennsylvania . . .

One of the best perspectives I've read recently.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7221684/the-tragedy-penn-state-nittany-lions-coach-joe-paterno

I agree - excellent column by Wojciechowski. He's one of the best sports journalists in the country and that piece was a good example. So many facets to this story.

I agree, everytime you watch the news or ESPN, there's more stuff out there. Now, they're throwing bricks through Sandusky's windows, and death threats to the GA. It will be an interesting game vs Nebraska.

What is sad though is they hate the guy because he tarnished the football team’s image - not be because he sexually assaulted children. If I was a member of the Penn State football team I would have turned in my uniform because I wouldn't want any part of a program that had a culture that allowed something like this to take place over such a long time period. I would then petition the NCAA to let me immediately transfer and suit-up with another team for a game today.

Re: Paterno - the problem isn't that he tarnished the image of the team by doing nothing. It isn't even that he ran interference for a child predator who got caught by virtue of allowing him to retire instead of being fired. The real problem I have is that in doing what he did, he actually facilitated further abuse. He abandoned the little boy in the shower by virtue of not making a big deal of it and insisting that the police investigate and the boy be provided protection. He didn't even make sure that little boy's mother knew what was happening to her child - and this was a child, not even a teenager. He allowed someone he KNEW wasn't right to continue to have unsupervised contact with little boys. He knew the little boys were often at high risk of abuse due to their family situations. He allowed this guy to continue to use Penn State as a magnet instead of making sure the whole world knew - criminal charges or no - that he was fired for misconduct (instead, he protected the man's pension and reputation). He didn't make sure the charity was aware of what this guy was involved with. I could go on. That is not the sort of thing I personally would expect to see happen if this was just about protecting the football legacy. My guardian ad litem antennae is WAY up. We saw so many child predators in the three counties I worked in back east that I used to tell people that I was beginning to wonder if loving little children (and I don't mean adolescents) was a normal sexual drive. Of course, I don't mean that but I saw so much of it that it wouldn't shock me, at all, if powerful men got involved in that.

Yes, very good article.

I have no doubt that Paterno is generally a good man who has done a million generous things in his life.

But I think it's also clear he is controlling and considers himself above many things. The example of him basically refusing to retire in 2004 is very telling both in terms of his ego and his power and influence.

Also, any time someone goes on and on in a sanctimonious way about ethics and morals, they put themselves in an impossible situation because, obviously, no one is perfect. So when the inevitable slip-up happens these types are more likely to cover up than admit a mistake, and one lie leads to another and before you know it the whole thing comes crashing down.

I think Paterno knew that Sandusky was doing bad things when he forced him into retirement in 1999 and probably knew or at least suspected for a while. His amount of power resulted in him arrogantly believing he could control the whole situation and no one need ever know that his top assistant was taking liberties (at least) with young boys at their football facilities and in hotel rooms during bowl games. He certainly couldn't allow such information to get out after pontificating about morality for decades, all the while holding his program out as some sort of paragon of virtue.

Sandusky was clearly arrogant as well... Raping this kid in the Penn State locker room?? Shows that he probably had been allowed to do lots of other things without retribution, so he became increasingly bold.

JoePa probably underestimated how bad things were with Sandusky... There were probably lots of times he looked the other way and I think it's pretty clear that he downright perjured himself in his testimony when he said the GA told him it had all just been horseplay. The grand jury is already recommending perjury charges for the administrators who made the same claim, so I think Paterno will ultimately see the same treatment.

In the end, I think Paterno was corrupted by his own power as powerful men often are.

Just commenting without reading any of the posts.

I think the Board of Trustees should all shove it up their -censored- cuz they used this excuse to avoid paying retirement benefits by firing him. He already announced to retire! Punishing a guy that worked hard and never did commit such said accusations. It was another coach that did. He didn't report it...so what...it was a long time ago. He made a mistake. So do all of us. Stupid -censored-.

Whan a guy rape someone and then 7 years later the victim decide to report it. Will the guy go to jail? Nope! Time ran out! No punishment. Now look at the severe excessive punishment dished to Joe Paterno. Fair? No. Punishment was already enough by forcing him to retire and live with the shame. But nooooo, stupid -censored- fired him.

Just a suggestion lad. Read more.

Sandusky is a predator of the worst kind...on the prowl. There's no telling if we'll ever really know how many victims. I just read the Grand Jury indictment and I am really shook up just thinking about the whole thing. It's obvious he used the allure of the Penn State football program to reel these kids in, then throw the foundation for "at-risk" kids on top of it and all the years...it's just hard to accept this all happened right under the noses of so many people and with those years - who knows how many victims?

Here's the indictment:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/page/gerald-sandusky-grand-jury-presentment-14924522

His personal family life, naturally, makes one wonder just how much more horrifying this whole thing is:

"Sandusky is married. He and his wife have six adopted children. The Sanduskys also took in foster children, and their house is next to an elementary school and playground."

Sandusky need to lose all custody. His wife must file a divorce. Sandusky must be shot down.

Just commenting without reading any of the posts.

I think the Board of Trustees should all shove it up their -censored- cuz they used this excuse to avoid paying retirement benefits by firing him. He already announced to retire! Punishing a guy that worked hard and never did commit such said accusations. It was another coach that did. He didn't report it...so what...it was a long time ago. He made a mistake. So do all of us. Stupid -censored-.

Whan a guy rape someone and then 7 years later the victim decide to report it. Will the guy go to jail? Nope! Time ran out! No punishment. Now look at the severe excessive punishment dished to Joe Paterno. Fair? No. Punishment was already enough by forcing him to retire and live with the shame. But nooooo, stupid -censored- fired him.

Are you commenting without actually reading what happened as well? Because you're off on most everything there.

Statute of limitations on lewd acts with a child is non-existent in Pennsylvania. That's why Sandusky is facing charges. Even if you read only the most basic stories of this, you should at least have picked that up. Rape would have been 12 years, but when a minor is involved, there's no statute.

Paterno doesn't need retirement, he's made more than enough over his career. His retirement announcement was done so that the board of trustees wouldn't fire him, even going so far as to say "you don't have to discuss me now, you have other things." It was a power play, plain and simple, and it didn't work. They fired him because he is the face of the athletic department and the most powerful and influential voice on the university. They're toxic right now, and he's the face of it. They had no choice but to get rid of him. Not paying retirement would be the very last thing on their mind.

Sandusky didn't just rape one person, it was several over time. Even after it was over, the guy was allowed to have access to the university and brought children. It wasn't a one-time deal that he didn't report. They gave him free reign and he used it several times.

However, you are correct. We do all make mistakes. None of my mistakes involve not reporting the rape of a child though. So Paterno's "one mistake" pretty much trumps all the collective mistakes that I've made over my life.

Paterno repeated that mistake every single time he saw that scumbucket with another child and abandoned him to Sanduskey's tender mercies. If he was half the man he tried to pretend to be, he'd have taken a stand and made a name for himself for not only being Joe Paterno, Mr. Integrity on the football field, but Joe Paterno, the man who wouldn't stand for a child to be abused. That the red head stayed on all this time makes me wonder if he was being paid off to keep his mouth shut.

Just commenting without reading any of the posts.

I think the Board of Trustees should all shove it up their -censored- cuz they used this excuse to avoid paying retirement benefits by firing him. He already announced to retire! Punishing a guy that worked hard and never did commit such said accusations. It was another coach that did. He didn't report it...so what...it was a long time ago. He made a mistake. So do all of us. Stupid -censored-.

Whan a guy rape someone and then 7 years later the victim decide to report it. Will the guy go to jail? Nope! Time ran out! No punishment. Now look at the severe excessive punishment dished to Joe Paterno. Fair? No. Punishment was already enough by forcing him to retire and live with the shame. But nooooo, stupid -censored- fired him.

So if someone told an elementary school PE teacher that they saw the janitor raping a kid and that PE teacher did nothing about it you would be ok with that? The same principle applies to an university. The job comes with a certain set of expectations. Not to mention the fact its the moral thing to do.

The same thing applies to other work places, if the superior doesn't address reported sexual harassment they get fired plain and simple. Were talking about something 10 times worse than sexual harassment I might remind you.

Well, people in college are usually over 18. Sex was most likely consenual. If not, their fault for not reporting Sandusky. I don't see why Joe Paterno should snoop around adults' private sex lives.

Well, people in college are usually over 18. Sex was most likely consenual. If not, their fault for not reporting Sandusky. I don't see why Joe Paterno should snoop around adults' private sex lives.

You should actually read the stories and clue yourself in before you post. You obviously have no clue whatsoever what was going on. You're just making yourself look like an idiot for trying to comment on stories you know jack-all about.

Sandusky was raping children from his charity on Penn State facilities. Children, as in, the one the GA saw and reported to Paterno was 10 years old. The person who saw it told Paterno.

Well, people in college are usually over 18. Sex was most likely consenual. If not, their fault for not reporting Sandusky. I don't see why Joe Paterno should snoop around adults' private sex lives.

OMG, Thunder. Please try to have some idea about what you're talking about before you post. This was not about sex between consenting adults. It was about the molestion of young boys.

Holy.... Good God.

Well, people in college are usually over 18. Sex was most likely consenual. If not, their fault for not reporting Sandusky. I don't see why Joe Paterno should snoop around adults' private sex lives.

My god! Even if you know nothing about this case, you think you would get the idea that this is not a case of consensual sex. You even talk about the satatue of limitations and rape in your previous post.

Let him retire. He live with the guilt already. We all know that the Board of Trustees used this to save money.

He obviously didn't feel guilty enough to do anything it in the decade he knew what was going on, even after the university let Sandusky continue to have access to the locker room and university facilities with kids. And he had ten full years for his guilt to drive him to actually do something. So we have no reason to think his guilt is overwhelming him now. Most likely, the only thing he's feeling guilty about is Sandusky being caught and dragging him down with him.

And no, we don't all know it was about money. In fact, it's asinine to suggest that that was the only reason to get rid of him. The athletic department covered up years of child rape, three people heavily associated with it are facing felony charges. The federal government is investigating the school. Paterno knew and could have stopped it, and he didn't. Other officials were charged with perjury for doing the same thing. So, he shouldn't have had the dignity of retiring, he deserved being fired. This isn't about football, this is well beyond it. It's pathetic that people are putting football above justice here.

Of course, you didn't even seem to know that that there were children involved, so it's going to be impossible to discuss it with you. If you can't do even the most basic bit of research before discussing a topic, you really shouldn't be posting about it. Your opinion holds no weight.

What is the point of chiming in on a topic that you have no idea about, which you said? It comes off as ignorant. Why throw in an opinion, when admitting you are clueless on the subject.

Let him retire. He live with the guilt already. We all know that the Board of Trustees used this to save money.

Yeah Thunder, Im sure their more interested in his retirement money and not the multi-million dollar lawsuits or federal investigations that are coming.

Only Saturday Night Live could get away with finding some kind of humor in this situation and get away with it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMIT3cNrUxg

Give the guys at South Park a couple of weeks . . .

Give the guys at South Park a couple of weeks . . .

Might not take that long, unless a big dose of decency hits.

They probably have the outsourced Korean animators working overtime.
RsB6ppFf94k

To be fair, you should note that not all of the pop-up responses on Cartman's screen had a URL associated with pennstate[dot]edu.

However--also in the interests of fairness--perhaps Pennsylvania could lead the nation in the restoration of castration and call it Sandusky's Law.

Although Ohio would probably want to sue for naming rights.

(Dang. I fergot about that rule against "cruel and unusual" . . .
That's very different . . .
V3FnpaWQJO0

Well, people in college are usually over 18. Sex was most likely consenual. If not, their fault for not reporting Sandusky. I don't see why Joe Paterno should snoop around adults' private sex lives.

As usual I'm at a loss of words for one of Thunder's posts but I'll say something anyway.... WTF is wrong with you to say that a grown man raping a underage boy is nobody's business because it's his private sex life? mmm and others are right, you really need to think about what you post before you post it or have somebody proof read it. WOW.... just WOW

This Just In/Breaking News: Former Coach Jerry Sandusky has outted himself to investigators as an undercover agent employed by the NHF (Neanderthalic Homophobic Forces) dedicated to casting aspersions in the direction of the so-called "Gay"--correct spelling "Ghey"--movement and will be enrolled in an appropriate witness protection program. Probably involving coaching of some sort.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Diversity is a double-edged sword.
Isn't it?

As a Husker fan I was proud to see both teams meet on the field for prayer before the game. The Nebraska asst. coach gave a good prayer and the post game comments by Pelini were spot on:



I will be honest with you going into the game, I didn’t think the game should have been played, for a lot of different reasons.

I look at my job as a football coach as to educate and to prepare the kids that come into the program for the rest of their life. That’s what we are; we are a university system.

I thought that this game gave us an opportunity to show that the situation going on is bigger than football. It is bigger than the football game that was just played. It is bigger than the young men that played in the game that would have missed it, had they called it off.

It’s about education and putting things into perspective what the situation is all about. Hopefully, the fact that both teams sat up and prayed together put that in perspective a little bit.

It’s about what doing what’s right in society. It’s about doing what’s right and wrong. Trust me, when I tell you, I don’t know the specifics of the situation and I am not judging anybody. But the fact is young kids were hurt and that’s a crime in itself.

It is a lot bigger than football, the NCAA, the Big Ten and anything else. I think that at least, that’s why I think going in the game shouldn’t have been played.

But with it being played, kneeling down and praying with both teams coming together was the right thing to do and hopefully that in of itself made a statement.

I just think it is about the young kids. I got a 12-year old boy. It’s about educating the young kids. I think there were a lot of young kids, all week, with all the things going on and watching ESPN that were really confused for a lot of different reasons.

There is a lot out there that people do not know and a lot of speculation. It’s not about the adults, football or anything else. It’s about education to the youth. I think that gets lost in whole situation. Whatever comes out of it, hopefully a lot of people learned from it and nothing like that ever happens again.

There were times when I felt like here I am telling my team to ignore what’s going on because we have a game to play. But, my main job is to educate and to talk to them about it and put focus on what we know, so these young adults learn from the situation. I think it is a pretty complicated situation for a lot of reasons.

I will be honest with you, earlier in the week, I thought there is no way that we are going to play in this football game.

I know that the public worship of athletes (and gladiators) preceeded, by centuries, the public worship of troubadours and minstrels, yet I'm not sure when the adulation of coaches and trainers came into the picture. Probably about the same time as The Big Money.

". . . panem et circenses . . ."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Please allow me to apologize, in advance for the Juvenal attempt at "humor" . . .

Might not take that long, unless a big dose of decency hits.

Last night's episode had some penn st references. Did not take long at all, though I suspect there will be more to come.

This whole thing is getting worse. The more that gets out, the worse it sounds. Sad.

And now we have Syracuse University joining in.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/sports/college/basketball/mens&sa=NCB&eid=7248184

Paterno Has Lung Cancer
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/breaking/Paterno-Lung-Cancer-134141698.html

There's a lot of rumors about Paterno's conduct at the university now, ranging from him threatening officials with getting donors to stop donating if he got fired, to forcing the university to stop or retract disciplinary members from his players. The more that comes out about this, if true, the worse the program, which was once the shining beacon of college football, looks. It's not on the Sandusky level, but it makes Paterno look far less like a benevolent figure who made a mistake and more like a power-mad abuser of his position.

Whoa, there, amigo . . .
Next thing ya' know you'll have someone accusing you of being a "Culturalist" . . .
Like as if Joe P was The Pope or sumpin'

On the bright side . . .
At least Coach Worship is probably approaching a nadir.

There's a lot of rumors about Paterno's conduct at the university now, ranging from him threatening officials with getting donors to stop donating if he got fired, to forcing the university to stop or retract disciplinary members from his players. The more that comes out about this, if true, the worse the program, which was once the shining beacon of college football, looks. It's not on the Sandusky level, but it makes Paterno look far less like a benevolent figure who made a mistake and more like a power-mad abuser of his position.

It fits right in with his - I am retiring at the end of the season so you don't have to discuss me anymore - comment.

It really does, it makes it look a lot more that he was desperately trying to hang onto his legacy because Penn State had avoided a real controversy to that point, and a lot of stuff was about to come out.

Any hope that his supporters had of trying to keep his legacy intact have gone down the tubes.

http://newsok.com/report-penn-st.-officials-concealed-abuse/article/3691805

Take that statue down. They need to white wash the entire place of anything with his legacy. They should even stop playing football tbh.

Take that statue down. They need to white wash the entire place of anything with his legacy. They should even stop playing football tbh.

Yep. Read the last few posts from yesterday and Thursday here:
http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=30614