O
...Red Dirt Market probably works because it appeals to tourists, but I don't think people from OKC make the trek to Bricktown just to shop there...
Have you ever actually BEEN to the Bricktown Marketplace (http://www.bricktownmarketplace.com/), Betts? Or are you perhaps confusing it with our first (and separate) store, Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (http://www.reddirtemporium.com/)?

If you have been to the marketplace, can you tell me how it differs, other than in size, from Showplace Market (http://www.showplacemarket.com/our-vendors/) or Serendipity (http://www.serendipityofedmond.com/) in Edmond or the Market at Quail Springs (http://www.facebook.com/TheMarketatQuailSprings), which are essentially (well done) suburban versions of the same concept?

I ask you this because pretty much every time Bricktown retail comes up in this forum you offer up something vaguely insulting about my stores. Have we offended you in some way? Did one of my staff treat you poorly or something? I'd like to get to the bottom of it.

I will freely admit that Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium was created to appeal to the visitor market, because that is low-hanging fruit in Bricktown. A major reason some operators have failed down there is that they failed to acknowledge the large number of visitors that walk around Bricktown on an annual basis, or at least the event-driven traffic. Those operators failed because they didn't recognize the low-hanging fruit.

We were really the first store that based our concept on what people ALREADY WALKING AROUND BRICKTOWN were asking for. We had an advantage there, because we ran Water Taxi for nearly a decade before venturing into retail, and noticed that the visitor market was SEVERELY underserved.

Another example of catering to an existing market is how Guestroom Records opened to cater to the ACM crowd (and visitors in the bargain), or how Justin at Bricktown Candy Co. opened to cater to the sneaking-candy-into-Harkins crowd and got visitors and ACM in the bargain.

Regarding the emporium however, we have made it a point from day one to try to equally appeal to locals who came in, and brought in tons of local music, MIO foods, Oklahoma-themed books in partnership with Full Circle Books, Thunder gear, etc. We made a pledge not to be some trashy rubber tomahawk shop (though we could have sold a TON of them), but rather a place locals would also enjoy and hopefully be proud of.

But the Bricktown Marketplace - opened 3 years after the emporium and on the other end of the building - is home to a huge variety of diverse vendors, and includes an official apparel store for the OKC Barons, one of the largest selections of official Thunder apparel outside of the Thunder Shop, great LOCAL (Tree & Leaf) Thunder themed apparel, product from local retailers like DNA Galleries in the Plaza District, plus ladies clothing, jewelry, home decor, a used book store (Archive Books in Edmond), and a great deal of other merchandise that is hardly visitor-specific. As for locals coming down to our place, our '11 holiday season was TRIPLE our '10 (first) season, and made up mostly of locals.

My places may not be your cup of tea - which is fine - but I believe it is unfair to label the marketplace much differently than the other places I linked to above. We're cut from the same cloth, and our customers are just as surely local soccer moms as visitors.

I don't understand the contempt for visitors, anyway. If catered to, they allow a district and downtown with hardly any rooftops to outperform traditional retail equations. They help stabilize prospects in an area that on the surface doesn't justify real retail investment, and they help create a situation that makes it more likely to ultimately get the nationals people are lusting after on here. I've been biting my tongue for a while on this subject, reading some really uninformed and frankly mean-spirited posts regarding some of the other retailers who have stuck out their shingles - and their necks - downtown. I'm working on another post on this subject that will probably make all sorts of people on here cranky, but that I need to get off of my chest.

I can name five places in Bricktown to buy Q-tips, and several in the CBD. Does that mean we're doing better than Austin? ;-)

Convenience store in the Miller-Jackson Building, The Store in the Power Alley Garage, the Conoco across from Bass Pro, Hampton Inn, and Residence Inn (granted, last two are weak additions, but you can still buy a Q-tip there).

Sometimes being a true downtowner also equals being resourceful.

I can name five places in Bricktown to buy Q-tips, and several in the CBD. Does that mean we're doing better than Austin? ;-)

Yes, that would mean OKC is doing better than Austin,unless.... are these tourist priced Q-tips or everyday priced Q-tips?

Yes, that would mean OKC is doing better than Austin,unless.... are these tourist priced Q-tips or everyday priced Q-tips?
Excellent point! My guess: two are tourist-priced, one is everyday gas station priced, and two are somewhere between there. I mostly buy my Q-tips at Homeland (18th and Classen) or Walgreens (23rd and Classen). If I'm buying them in one of the other places something has probably gone very wrong in the earwax department.

The special events in Bricktown will probably remain status quo until the city starts pumping in money and services and the ability to close off streets. Would suggest that city leaders look into the things that Chicago have done with their Cultural and Special Events department within its mayors office. A Baby Disco Event? Really ?

www.cityofchicago.org/content/city/en/depts/dca/provdrs/chicago_festivals.html

The on street parking will be a revenue source for the city. Customer puts in 4 Qtrs and stays over an hour and returns to a green envelope with a special
gift inside. If this great idea is to shoot at surface pay lots it won't work. These will be like any other meters downtown. Filled by employees feeding them all day or
someone dropping something off, picking up, or a short meeting. I think its better when someone parks in a surface lot and stays through meals and into the evening.

The problem with developing upper floors at for example spaghetti warehouse is that the city will not let you do one floor at a time. If you want to bring one floor up to code for office or residential you have to do the whole building. This gets to cost prohibitive. Spaghetti Warehouse wanted to this several years back but didn't want to remodel every floor. Interested in doing a floor at a time.

The problem with developing upper floors at for example spaghetti warehouse is that the city will not let you do one floor at a time. If you want to bring one floor up to code for office or residential you have to do the whole building. This gets to cost prohibitive. Spaghetti Warehouse wanted to this several years back but didn't want to remodel every floor. Interested in doing a floor at a time.

this is not true as far as i know ... several projects have been built out 1 floor at a time

The on street parking will be a revenue source for the city. Customer puts in 4 Qtrs and stays over an hour and returns to a green envelope with a special
gift inside. If this great idea is to shoot at surface pay lots it won't work. These will be like any other meters downtown. Filled by employees feeding them all day or
someone dropping something off, picking up, or a short meeting. I think its better when someone parks in a surface lot and stays through meals and into the evening.

I think the Reno street parking would be free with probably some kind of time limit (2 hours). We used to go to Ft Bragg, CA every year and their downtown parking was free with a 2 hour time limit. Parking enforcement came around every hour and put a chalk mark on your tire. If they found you with two chalk marks you got a ticket.

They look like this:
http://thebatavian.com/sites/thebatavian.com/files/images/parkingenforce.jpg

it would be metered if created just like the rest of the on street parking in bricktown

it would be metered if created just like the rest of the on street parking in bricktown

While it might be metered now, I thought part of the Bricktown Plan was to make all city owned street and surface parking free, thus killing the surface parking lot market.

They way I understand it is all floors above the restaurant are not up to current codes.
You can't just do a sprinkler system, plumbing, electric, etc and get an occupancy permit by floor. That they would have to bring all the upper floors to code to get a occupancy permit. The Bunte Candy building just did this but it was around an 8M investment I heard.

They way I understand it is all floors above the restaurant are not up to current codes.
You can't just do a sprinkler system, plumbing, electric, etc and get an occupancy permit by floor. That they would have to bring all the upper floors to code to get a occupancy permit. The Bunte Candy building just did this but it was around an 8M investment I heard.

ok i understand ... they wouldn't have to do the build out per floor .. but would have to get the "shell" up to code on every floor

LOL I had a long-winded rant (not the one on the previous page) 95% typed up last night on my office machine, and was going to wrap it up and post this AM. Came in this morning and Windows had applied updates and restarted my computer. Perhaps that means my thoughts on downtown retail are best kept to myself!

The problem with developing upper floors at for example spaghetti warehouse is that the city will not let you do one floor at a time. If you want to bring one floor up to code for office or residential you have to do the whole building. This gets to cost prohibitive. Spaghetti Warehouse wanted to this several years back but didn't want to remodel every floor. Interested in doing a floor at a time.


Dowell Center was done one floor at a time.

Dowell Center also had semi-modern sprinkler systems, HVAC and electrical service already in place, only requiring upgrades. I'm not 100% certain if okcboy's assertion is correct, but it makes a certain amount of sense if you consider that some of the buildings down here substantially or entirely lack those systems.

This is the Bricktown strategic plan.

What are the Lower Bricktown strategic plans? ...

Dowell Center was done one floor at a time.

isn't dowell center still 100% empty??

This is the Bricktown strategic plan.

What are the Lower Bricktown strategic plans? ...

LOL - there is no strategic plan for Lower Bricktown. Nothing short of a bulldozer can fix lower Bricktown. The iconic boulevard is going to have great views of the backs of everything.

Meh, I think you can "fix" Lower Bricktown with infill. I would start by building structured parking where the large Harkins/Toby Keith lot is, and systematically eliminating the other surface lots by building on them, making sure to build to the streets and the canal. I'm pretty sure you could leverage TIF for the garage.

LOL I had a long-winded rant (not the one on the previous page) 95% typed up last night on my office machine, and was going to wrap it up and post this AM. Came in this morning and Windows had applied updates and restarted my computer. Perhaps that means my thoughts on downtown retail are best kept to myself!

I'd like to know if you ever get the time again.

While it might be metered now, I thought part of the Bricktown Plan was to make all city owned street and surface parking free, thus killing the surface parking lot market.

I thought it included making all Bricktown city-owned lots and street spaces free as well.

Meh, I think you can "fix" Lower Bricktown with infill. I would start by building structured parking where the large Harkins/Toby Keith lot is, and systematically eliminating the other surface lots by building on them, making sure to build to the streets and the canal. I'm pretty sure you could leverage TIF for the garage.

would really like to get the empty lot next to toby keith's built upon

I'm glad you thought that was funny.

Who owns all of the surface parking in Lower Bricktown?

Meh, I think you can "fix" Lower Bricktown with infill. I would start by building structured parking where the large Harkins/Toby Keith lot is, and systematically eliminating the other surface lots by building on them, making sure to build to the streets and the canal. I'm pretty sure you could leverage TIF for the garage.

Totally agree. There are plenty of areas in Lower Bricktown that can be filled in. There are prime spots to the east and west of Toby Keith's and along what will become the new boulevard along with between Residence Inn and Sonic. There are also plenty of areas of surface parking that have enough space to be repurposed as garages.

I'm glad you thought that was funny.

Who owns all of the surface parking in Lower Bricktown?

It is owned by a number of different people. Here is a link that will allow you to find the owner of any property using a map. Just click the Launch Map Viewer and zoom into the area you are interested in.

http://oklahoma.latitudegeo.com/imf/sites/oklahoma/launch.html

...I don't understand the contempt for visitors, anyway. ...
Exactly. Visitors are NEW money coming into the economy and that can only be a good thing. Most anything else is just redistribution of existing monies spent from one area of town to another

Visitors are also downtown and Bricktown's best hope for making the area outperform the current abysmal residential demographics retailers look at when considering an area. Other than more rooftops, the sales tax revenue they bring to downtown zip codes is OKC's best hope for attracting quality retail downtown. Ignoring them is, well, ignorant.

I'm still working on finding time to post some of my thoughts and observations regarding downtown retail recruitment. Much of the stuff I read on this board regarding this subject is frankly comical.

Trust me, nobody would love it more than me if an Urban Outfitters and a West Elm plopped down in Bricktown, but those types of nationals are INCREDIBLY unlikely in the foreseeable future. I understand that now more than ever, between years spent either trying to lure retailers to a district, or listening to highly-qualified real estate people (NOT property speculators) talk about retail development, and now having had the benefit of starting two downtown retail operations from scratch over the past five years. Those things have all made me temper my expectations, without question.

Are the zoning laws in Bricktown keeping more residential units from happening or is it the parking lot issues?

I think AA has more potential for new mixed use being built than Bricktown because of the parking for tourists issues. AA could get a few more retailers once the developers see its potential and as the street cars move in.

Does the plan include the street car route and how it will attract residents?

It only my opinion, but Bricktown core to me should always be an entertainment
district and not a residential neighborhood. Also, its gonna take a cluster destination
retail development to do the trick downtown. One off retail shops are great
but we will be in for a long process. Come and go, kinda like what we have seen to this point.
This will need subsidizing like Bass Pro Shops. Just the reality of today.

okcboy - you are right about the retail. For retail to work on any meaningful level the retail space would need to be consolidated under common management. If the Cox Center is ever removed it will represent the greatest chance OKC has had in two generations to bring retail downtown. As for residential development in Bricktown, it will only enhance the entertainment options available in Bricktown.

I agree and think condos and residential are great. Just worry when you mix a persons home with the sometimes nuances of restaurants, bars, and clubs (next door or above your home) that there might be some conflict unless the residents know what they are getting into going in. I could see someone at a council meeting complaining about something because "this is were my family lives".

I think maybe a good retail spot would be where the convention center should of been located.

I agree and think condos and residential are great. Just worry when you mix a persons home with the sometimes nuances of restaurants, bars, and clubs (next door or above your home) that there might be some conflict unless the residents know what they are getting into going in. I could see someone at a council meeting complaining about something because "this is were my family lives".

I don't think you'd get a lot of families living in Bricktown. I think rather you'd get people of pre-family age or singles of any age. In other cities there are plenty of options to live over bars, restaurants or retail.

Retail follows people. People don't follow retail. Bring more jobs downtown and you bring more people. More people with well paying jobs who are willing to spend on more than beer and burgers and we will get retail. Not too complicated.

So back 60+ years ago downtown was full of window shopping... Yet there was no more housing downtown then as there is now, in fact it was likely less... But it worked then. Retail worked then. How did it work then if retail always follows people?

I can think of several outlet malls around our country that have essentially been built up in the middle of nowhere, or at least with a very small surrounding population. Before the tornado took it out the Tanger mall would have fit that description. If retail follows people but people do not follow retail, how does this type of retail (outlet malls) survive?

I think the key point that is often missed is that yes retail needs people to survive, but that doesn't have to mean those people are living at its doorstep. Many outlet malls simply thrive off of through traffic. The same phenomenon is seen in the restaraunt industry... It's why some of OKC's highest performing restaraunts are located just off interstates.

People sometimes do follow retail, given there are enough people passing by to make it work. When I think of Bricktown, an area anchored by two massive interstates and immediately surrounded by natural foot traffic attractions, I can't help but think we, once again, have become a bit too suburban in our thinking with respect to what does and doesn't work in a city core.

Just my opinion.

Keep up the positive thinking. Just build an outlet mall downtown and let them come. Lol

People should check out how many downtown malls have failed over the last 30 years. Just build it and people will come downtown to shop. That was the thought. I hope everyone understands there is a reason retailers haven't been clamoring to be downtown.

So back 60+ years ago downtown was full of window shopping... Yet there was no more housing downtown then as there is now, in fact it was likely less... But it worked then. Retail worked then. How did it work then if retail always follows people?

I don't know about 60 years ago but pre-WWII downtown OKC had tons of housing and the people who didn't live in the heart of the city had direct access via streetcars.

And there wasn't shopping all over town...just downtown and Capital Hill.

I'm sure a lot of downtown malls have failed in recent years. Most downtowns are failing. But as a recent national article noted, OKC's downtown has taken the exact opposite track. I just have to wonder if the thought that retail couldn't survive down there is too simple a rationale.

Outlet malls located in remote areas have been successful regardless, so other factors must come into play. Rover mentioned that downtown was popular back when there weren't other areas of the city competing with it. That certainly makes sense. So then why couldn't a development exist down there that doesn't compete directly with other entities around town? It's a simple strategy that works in other industries. Put an Old Navy or Kohls down there and it'll fail because you can go anywhere for that. Why wouldn't we try to figure out what OKC residents are Craving, can't get Anywhere else in the metro, and try to put That down there? Theres a lot of evidence that people are willing to drive for some things.... It's why on any given weekend you'll meet people from all across Oklahoma in Bricktown. So we've established people will drive from afar for entertainment options they can't get in their immediate area. Why wouldn't we assume they might be willing to do the same for specific types of retail? Why couldn't we compete with that fun weekend retail getaway to Dallas that so many of my friends go on?

So why wouldn't that strategy work? Have we ever really tried?

I did a very quick google and the very first link was to a paper written by some folks at Cornell. One thing it says is that successful downtown retail has to find a competitive advantage. That's exactly what I am talking about above.

http://www.downtowndevelopment.com/pdf/WBrown_SuccessfulDown_EE0C8.pdf

The difference between a shopping mall and downtown is that the mall manager has upwards of 200 store sites to offer retailers. Store like The Limited operate under multiple brands including Victoria's Secret, Bath and Body Works, Pink, La Senza, and Henri Bendel. Each brand targets a specific consumer and shopping mall management knows where in the facility those shoppers are and can off multi-tenant deals. Downtowns don't have this luxury because the retail space is owned by so many different people, many of which would never work together to produce the synergy necessary to land tenants. The owners of FNC would never offer a 30% discount to Pink so The Limited could move into City Place at market rate.

If all the downtown retail space was brought under a common management company downtown could make a go of it. Of course, downtown OKC doesn't have very much retail space available anyhow, and as discussed earlier, a lot of space near the urban core doesn't even open to the sidewalk which doesn't allow retailers to set their own hours.

So this is a great post, and I understand what you are saying. But you know when I walk around downtown and Bricktown, for a metro area I see a surprisingly large number of vacant grass lots, surface parking lots, and other areas of opportunity. If the issue is the need for a single owner/management for an entire retail property, and our city is lacking in retail sites downtown anyway, then to me rather than a negative all of the points you have made just seem to be positively suggesting we as a city need to make some of these old lots I've mentioned available for retail expansion. Hopefully then an owner buys the lot, builds some sort of retail structure, and performs the site management function you are talking about. It would have to be someone with that kind of experience, but I would hope not an actual mall management company in the traditional sense as we need something unique down there.

Successful national retailers don't take risks. Ever. Unlike locals, they don't "believe" in an area. There is NOTHING warm and fuzzy about their decision-making process. They base their decisions 100% on numbers. Simply put, downtown's residential rooftop and per household income numbers suck.

An upscale national retailer, if they consider the OKC metro at all (and the tide there is finally turning) will first locate in 4-5 other zip code clusters before even CONSIDERING downtown, and by the time they do that, they are no longer unique to the market. Places like Classen Curve or Edmond or Norman can offer household incomes in the $60K and up range; downtown zip codes offer average household incomes in the twenties.

I know we all assume that there was a ton of CHK/McClendon money that lured Whole Foods and Anthropologie to Classen Curve, but there is NO amount of money that would have brought them if CC wasn't located between (and closely to) Nichols Hills and Crown Heights.

Unfortunately, those are the cold hard facts when it comes to national retail. They want rooftops, and just as important, rooftops with income. Downtown - despite its progress - has little of either.

What downtown DOES have is some destination status and some movement in the housing market. The best thing we can do is to do everything possible to encourage the downtown housing trend, and in a decade or so we MIGHT be able to compete with other zip codes in the metro.

The destination status downtown enjoys can help in a more immediate fashion; by making the downtown zip codes' sales tax reports out-perform expectations based only on household income for the area. The Chamber uses these numbers in retail recruitment to try to convince retailers that the area is viable despite the poor household figures.

This is why rather than poor-mouthing local retailers who take a chance on downtown, people who are anxious to see more recognizable retail here should actively seek out reasons to patronize the pioneering locals.

Instead of grumbling when a local scuba enthusiast dreams big and puts a store in Automobile Alley, go into the store and see if you can buy your sunblock or sunglasses from him instead of from Target. Instead of going to Macy's or Wal-Mart, buy a watch from B.C. Clark, or a bike from Schlegel. Get your wedding dress in Midtown rather than the 'burbs. Stop by the Bricktown Candy Company or Pinkitzel and get some candy there rather than whatever suburban grocery store you shop at.

Stop into Guestroom records and pick up a CD rather than buying it on iTunes. When Native Roots opens, buy whatever you can from them instead of griping about them not being Whole Foods. It's not always easy, or convenient, or cheap, but it will make a difference in the long run.

And instead of griping about out-of-town and out-of-state visitors somehow "sullying" your downtown, or a convention center that brings even more of them into the equation, understand that visitors are one of the best and most-compelling weapons we have to combat the poor household and residential numbers we currently offer retailers when trying to convince them to locate downtown.

This is why rather than poor-mouthing local retailers who take a chance on downtown, people who are anxious to see more recognizable retail here should actively seek out reasons to patronize the pioneering locals.

Instead of grumbling when a local scuba enthusiast dreams big and puts a store in Automobile Alley, go into the store and see if you can buy your sunblock or sunglasses from him instead of from Target. Instead of going to Macy's or Wal-Mart, buy a watch from B.C. Clark, or a bike from Schlegel. Get your wedding dress in Midtown rather than the 'burbs. Stop by the Bricktown Candy Company or Pinkitzel and get some candy there rather than whatever suburban grocery store you shop at.

Stop into Guestroom records and pick up a CD rather than buying it on iTunes. When Native Roots opens, buy whatever you can from them instead of griping about them not being Whole Foods. It's not always easy, or convenient, or cheap, but it will make a difference in the long run.

Excellent points. Shopping locally is one of the best things anyone can do, and when you speak to an owner, or even a clerk, let them know you are local.

Another thing that seems to hurt us in OK, is the unwillingness for people to walk more than 100 feet from their cars. I have seen people walk out of a store in a strip mall, move their car five rows over, get out, and go in another store. Spend any time in a large metro area (DC, NYC, Chicago, Seattle, etc), and people walk a lot. That's why people in those metro areas are thinner too...

Was at yesterdays Bricktown St. Pats event thats been going on for 21 years and it didn't look like its getting tired. Very busy. Great urban vibe. Wish I new how to post a photo.

Just upload it anywhere, facebook works, and copy the image url. You can get this by right-clicking on the photo. Copy it into something like this inside the brackets.

Sorry. Cant figure it out. Not very computer savvy. Bricktownokc on twitter has some.
https://twitter.com/#!/BricktownOKC/status/181519455837372416/photo/1

So this is a great post, and I understand what you are saying. But you know when I walk around downtown and Bricktown, for a metro area I see a surprisingly large number of vacant grass lots, surface parking lots, and other areas of opportunity. If the issue is the need for a single owner/management for an entire retail property, and our city is lacking in retail sites downtown anyway, then to me rather than a negative all of the points you have made just seem to be positively suggesting we as a city need to make some of these old lots I've mentioned available for retail expansion. Hopefully then an owner buys the lot, builds some sort of retail structure, and performs the site management function you are talking about. It would have to be someone with that kind of experience, but I would hope not an actual mall management company in the traditional sense as we need something unique down there.

It doesn't have to be very complicated and ownership doesn't have to change hands on retail sites, we just need common management across all available space and a revenue sharing program. Let's say downtown had three spots for retail. Instead of having all 3 owners compete with each other and none of them being able to offer a multi-tennant deal, bring those three sites under a common manager and split the rent based on sq footage at each site. All 3 sites get filled and each owner makes the same $per sq foot income. Of course, this is a simplistic example and there is still the problem of very little retail sites open to the sidewalk, but selecting the right management company could lead to new retail development.

Unless you are putting in a destination shop (like Bass Pro) there will be little retail. It takes feet on the street. No amount of manipulation will convince savy retailers to lose money. They need traffic with money to spend. The new housing will certainly help.

Unless you are putting in a destination shop (like Bass Pro) there will be little retail. It takes feet on the street. No amount of manipulation will convince savy retailers to lose money. They need traffic with money to spend. The new housing will certainly help.

With the limited retail options in Oklahoma creating 'destination retail' is the easy part. Half the city went ape **** over Whole Foods and the other half went ape **** over an outlet mall. A World Market opening would get two days of front page coverage and they have stores in Wichita, Amarillo, and Lubbock. You have to admit, the bar is set pretty low.

World Market? I would hope not. But I agree we don't need a national anchor tenant downtown, nor are we likely to get one. What has not proved to work is a single store in an isolated location that appeals to one demographic only. That's why I said I'd love the city to target the empty buildings on Main in Bricktown. I'd like to see 3 or 4 stores in close proximity open reasonably close on a timeline. Very few people would make a trip to go to a single store and if you're in Bricktown for dinner or to go to a bar, stores are unlikely to be open.

I dont know anything about World Market, but what about Whole Foods? It seems to be the perfect example of a "single store in an isolated location that appeals to one demographic" (at least based on the cars in the parking lot). Not that I have anything against the cluster approach either. Get the right store in there and they will come. How many of the folks that frequent Whole Foods walk across the street over to Classen Curve?

In many ways I think, regardless of how much one may like the area as there seems to be a wide range of opinion there, that Lower Bricktown is perhaps the most successful part of the Bricktown area. If one looks at how the area is layed-out, with a large anchor tenant (the theater) in the center portion, condos just 100 feet to the side, and a wide range of walkable restaurants and coffee shops in the immediate area, I think that is why the area enjoys success. So if that area is successful, and most people probably agree that it is, then I don't understand why we don't replicate that again and again. In another thread I mentioned that really there is not a whole lot over in east Bricktown. So why not do Lower Bricktown again, but this time with a different anchor, different stores, and different architecture? There are plenty of empty spaces for this. How about a lower Lower Bricktown... or how about just the lower canal... what is wrong with that area anyway. Bite the bullet and redo it... add more storefront windows and direct entry doorways, partition the areas down to smaller, cheaper square footage, and in the areas where you keep the larger square footage find something of national significance to put in as an anchor. In LB's case it was just a movie theater. Like JTS said the bar is pretty low... finding something new and unique to Oklahoma should be "sky's the limit...."

I dont know anything about World Market, but what about Whole Foods? It seems to be the perfect example of a "single store in an isolated location that appeals to one demographic" (at least based on the cars in the parking lot). Not that I have anything against the cluster approach either. Get the right store in there and they will come. How many of the folks that frequent Whole Foods walk across the street over to Classen Curve?

You know me personally I never walk to Classen Curve from Whole Foods because I feel like trying to cross Grand or Classen on foot is taking your life into your own hands. But it is an interesting point that you bring up, people who shop at WF tends to do things like enjoy walking. The location of our current and only WF store is a bit isolating, but I could definitely see that store being the type of place that would generate foot traffic in a more urban setting.

Whole Foods now understands that yes it can be successful in Oklahoma. So build some large retail center in Bricktown or downtown that has them as the center anchor, with lots and lots and lots of little shops all around it. Don't design it as a straight line or V-shaped suburban strip mall... make it sort of U-shaped like a "town center" or some uniquely interesting configuration with lots of walking space and a public fountain or art in the center that encourages walking through, around, and across, with parking far away on an outer area that doesn't cross paths with the pedestrians. I would really love to see something like that here.

Also I am sure someone is now going to say oh well yes this is the easy part, it is getting the anchor tenant to locate in OKC that is the hard part... well I don't doubt that, but I also think that if you sign a big enough check anyone will locate here. Concerned business xyz won't make a profit? Well pass a penny tax and pour the whole thing into the new retail site and guarantee the tenants an incentive plus sustained revenue until they become profitable on their own. You basically eliminate the majority of the risk by doing that. So don't say it isn't possible, anything is possible if we really want something bad enough and are willing to pay for it.

I understand the sentiment of wanting a new convention center and the political necessity of creating senior aquatic centers around town, but I would honestly much rather see us dump $100 million+ into creating walkable commerce areas and attracting the kinds of businesses that everyone I know wants here that won't seem to come here than seeing any of that other stuff built. But that's just me.

If they did this, I wonder if they could use the sonic restaurant building (not the HQ building) and the small parking lot behind it. (new construction for that whole area). Not sure it that is enough space though. Would that be a good location?

That's an interesting thought. That's a great location, and the little parking lot has never made much sense to me because it can serve so few. Yeah that might be a good location. It could probably get a bump by being so close to (or in) Lower Bricktown too.

...make it sort of U-shaped like a "town center" or some uniquely interesting configuration with lots of walking space and a public fountain or art in the center that encourages walking through, around, and across, with parking far away on an outer area that doesn't cross paths with the pedestrians. I would really love to see something like that here.

I was just at The Jacksonville Landing which is designed exactly like that. Its history has been riddled with store closures, poor attendance, and a dead-like atmosphere. I came to the conclusion Saturday that it was designed backwards. Instead of the shops opening to the inner courtyard or accessible only by an internal hallway, the shops should have all opened to the outside facing the steet. On the day we were there the place was actually pretty busy but you couldn't tell from the sidewalk because everyone was hidden behind or inside the building. The back of the stores actually face the street.

I was just at The Jacksonville Landing which is designed exactly like that. Its history has been riddled with store closures, poor attendance, and a dead-like atmosphere. I came to the conclusion Saturday that it was designed backwards. Instead of the shops opening to the inner courtyard or accessible only by an internal hallway, the shops should have all opened to the outside facing the steet. On the day we were there the place was actually pretty busy but you couldn't tell from the sidewalk because everyone was hidden behind or inside the building. The back of the stores actully face the street.

That is a good point. Actually even the Classen Curve suffers a bit from the way in which it tends to obscure itself from the outside area. I guess I am a bit leery of street-facing frontage because here in OKC if something like that went up for bid that means every local yokal with strip mall experience would be trying to get a piece of it and if they did would ultimately design something more for drive up parking than for pedestrians. I am not sure how we would reconcile that... giving something enough visibility that passers-through would want to stop and check it out, but also something that is very easily walkable.