It sounds like the City of Norman will hold a 2012 Bond Election that would widen Lindsey Street from I - 35 to Berry Road and include major drainage improvements. They would include an appropriate transition to the east of Berry Road. The Lindsey/Interstate 35 interchange reconstruction project is currently scheduled to begin in 2015. The city would like to widen Lindsey during the same time period.

When turning north on Berry Road I hope they include a right turn lane on west bound Lindsey.

Your lips to God's ears. It'd be nice to get down McGee between Lindsey and Boyd after any moisture more intense than Bethel Baptist turning on their sprinklers.

Thus far, the city of Norman's solution to this problem has been to close McGee and station a cop next to the athletic fields to write tickets to residents trying to get to their homes by driving around the barricades. I drive around them and when he hits his lights, I continue down my side street. If he wants to ticket me, he can follow me through the water. So far, I've never heard a peep from NPD.

I keep threatening to put on my overalls and a straw hat, get a long wooden pole and raft down McGee on a fence panel from Boyd to Lindsey, Huck Finn style, to illustrate the problem. What're the odds I'd be on the front page of the Transcript and/or on KOCO?

It sounds like the City of Norman will hold a 2012 Bond Election that would widen Lindsey Street from I - 35 to Berry Road and include major drainage improvements. They would include an appropriate transition to the east of Berry Road. The Lindsey/Interstate 35 interchange reconstruction project is currently scheduled to begin in 2015. The city would like to widen Lindsey during the same time period.

When turning north on Berry Road I hope they include a right turn lane on west bound Lindsey.

great news and only about 15 years late

Anyone care to guess how long it will take Lindsey to be congested again after the widening that was designed to lessen congestion? The question isn't whether to have congestion or not, it is how many lanes of congestion you want.

Here is the story in the Transcript about the upcoming Bond Issue and other thing: http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1235095315/What-s-in-Norman-s-future


Anyone care to guess how long it will take Lindsey to be congested again after the widening that was designed to lessen congestion? The question isn't whether to have congestion or not, it is how many lanes of congestion you want.

Hmm, it is congested now. It'll be a nightmare during construction. It'll be congested immediately after construction. So it will probably not get away from being congested. LOL

Here is the story in the Transcript about the upcoming Bond Issue and other thing: http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1235095315/What-s-in-Norman-s-future



Hmm, it is congested now. It'll be a nightmare during construction. It'll be congested immediately after construction. So it will probably not get away from being congested. LOL

So the problem stays but it cost more. That sounds about right.

This project is badly needed. It will be a much better road in 2 years or so..............

Weather permitting; 60th Street NW (Western Avenue) from Tecumseh Road to Franklin Road will be closed to through traffic at approximately 7:00 AM Monday, February 6, 2012, for approximately 3 months. Traffic will be detoured to 48th Street NW along Tecumseh Road and Franklin Road. Signs will be placed accordingly to direct the traveling public.


The 60th Street NW Widening Project from Tecumseh Road to Indian Hills Road is a $5.7 million street improvement project administered by the Oklahoma Department of Transportation on behalf of the City of Norman. Construction of the project will begin on Monday, February 6, 2012. The prime contractor is Silverstar Construction of Moore, OK. The local engineering firm of EST, Inc. is providing construction oversight and field inspection services.



Upon completion, 60th Avenue NW will be a 4-lane rural highway with paved shoulders. A new traffic signal will be installed at the intersection of 60th Avenue NW and Indian Hills Road. Significant storm drainage improvements will also take place as part of this project including replacement of the Ten Mile Flat Creek bridge. Over the next two years, the City of Oklahoma City will make similar improvements to Western Avenue between Indian Hills Road and 134th Street (State Highway 37). When both projects are completed, five (5) miles of Western Avenue/60th Avenue NW will be improved to rural highway standards, thereby improving traffic flow and traffic safety in this part of Norman and Oklahoma City.



Additional questions may be directed to Mr. Scott Sturtz, City of Norman Capital Projects Engineer, at (405)366-5454.

... Weather permitting; 60th Street NW (Western Avenue) from Tecumseh Road to Franklin Road will be closed to through traffic at approximately 7:00 AM Monday, February 6, 2012, for approximately 3 months. Traffic will be detoured to 48th Street NW along Tecumseh Road and Franklin Road. Signs will be placed accordingly to direct the traveling public. ...

Does anyone else find it a little funny they listed an hour of the morning, approximated, the road closes for 3 months?

Does anyone else find it a little funny they listed an hour of the morning, approximated, the road closes for 3 months?


Letting folk know they need a different plan for that Monday and beyond is simply good planning. Easier to close it down that first day if many of the regulars self-transfer to an alternate route ahead of time.

Letting folk know they need a different plan for that Monday and beyond is simply good planning. Easier to close it down that first day if many of the regulars self-transfer to an alternate route ahead of time.

If it was 9 or 10 AM then that would allowed for most of the morning commuters to go through, 7 AM cuts out the majority so you might as well have just said it would have totally been closed that day. Especially if you are going to throw approximately in front of the time.

http://normantranscript.com/local/x991869509/Norman-looks-at-transportation-package-to-fix-traffic-flooding-issues


NORMAN — The Robinson Street Underpass Project currently under way from Flood Avenue to Stubbeman Avenue is one project approved by Norman voters in the 2005 Bond Election. By securing funding with the bond, city staff was able to qualify for federal funding on each of the projects in that bond package.

Now, city leaders are considering another transportation bond proposal to address some of Norman’s most pressing traffic and flooding issues. Bonds help cities qualify for more federal money by providing matching funds.

A Norman Community Transportation Survey — instituted by the city and conducted by ETC Institute — indicates that 48 percent of respondents throughout Norman are “extremely likely” to support a bond issue to address transportation projects. An additional 32 percent said they are “somewhat likely” to support such a bond, and 9 percent are neutral.

That 80 percent support is a strong statement, Norman Public Works Director Shawn O’Leary said.

The Norman City Council is considering a package of eight transportation projects. Staff expects federal dollars to pay for more than half the cost.

“The bond interest rates are at historic lows, the project costs are bidding in at historic lows and these are projects that we need to do in order to address the congestion problem that most people in Norman complain about,” Council member Tom Kovach said. “It’s not going to get any cheaper, and planning ahead like this will allow us to have $38 million in funding from the federal government before those dollars dry up.”

The package the council is looking at would ask voters to approve $33 million in bonds. Federal dollars would make up more than half of the $71.6 million in total cost.

One of the most expensive and badly needed projects — according to council members, city staff and Norman survey respondants — is a combination drainage and street widening on Lindsey Street between 24th Avenue Southwest to Berry Road. That project total is the largest in the proposed bond package, coming in at $21.5 million.

“By combining the drainage and street improvements together, we are able to access more federal funds,” O’Leary said, “and we are only disrupting the corridor one time.”

The Lindsey Street project would be done in one year, he said.

Norman residents have become discouraged over the years with efforts to deal with local drainage and flooding along this corridor, but Kovach and O’Leary said this new approach will work.

“We will discharge the runoff directly into the Canadian River,” O’Leary said. “That concept has never been talked about before.”

The plan to discharge into the Canadian will dovetail with improvements the Oklahoma Department of Transportation will make to Interstate 35.

“We’re not going to add another drop of water to Imhoff, which is already overburdened,” Kovach said. “This is going to be a big relief for a lot of people who have been burdened for the last 30 or 40 years.”

“It’s not just drainage, it’s not just nuisance water, it’s flooding, and it is certainly a safety concern,” O’Leary said.

Mayor Cindy Rosenthal said that the drainage issues associated with the Lindsey Street project reach beyond McGee Drive and Lindsey.

“There’s no other way that we could do this without interrupting lots more business,” Council member Carol Dillingham said.

If the city council approves the bond package, it will come before voters on June 26.

The Norman City Council is considering a package of eight transportation projects

Has anyone heard what and where some of these other projects might be?
Thanks.

I plan on voting YES for this long overdue project.
http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1796676331/Fixing-Lindsey-Street

March 18, 2012

Fixing Lindsey Street
By Joy Hampton
The Norman Transcript The Norman Transcript Sun Mar 18, 2012, 02:12 AM CDT

NORMAN — During Thursday’s public forum on the Lindsey Street widening and drainage project, residents and business owners asked questions and expressed opinions regarding the proposed design. Bret Cabbiness, President of Cabbiness Engineering, Nicci Tiner of Garver Engineering, and Norman Public Works Director Shawn O’Leary were on hand to discuss the project.

“We are all aware of the chronic flooding on Lindsey Street and the related flooding and property damage to residents who live on Imhoff Creek south of Lindsey,” Mayor Cindy Rosenthal told those in attendance.

“This plan will offer a solution to both with a comprehensive drainage plan for the corridor and a significant reduction of stormwater in Imhoff Creek.”

Safety is one of the top concerns of city leadership in proposing the project as part of a bond package expected to go before voters on June 26.

“The roadway is heavily congested and has the highest accident rate in the metro area,” Rosenthal said. “The proposed concept will improve public safety for all modes of travel including cars, pedestrians, bicyclists and buses.”

Most agree that the project is sorely needed but there have been questions raised concerning the importance of bike lanes versus additional landscaping.

Plans currently include benches, decorative lighting, and other landscaping features.

Council member Tom Kovach has met with local merchants over the course of several months in order to hear their concerns and wish list for the project.

“I attended five meetings with merchants and property owners on Lindsey.

They asked for buried utilities, limited raised medians, enhanced landscaping, accelerated construction and access to their businesses at all time,” he said. “I think the only thing we have not addressed to their satisfaction is the landscaping , and we have some issues with the medians at the intersections.”

Some would like to see trees rather than bike lanes, however, but Kovach said planting trees above buried utility cables is not a good idea.

“This is a once in a lifetime chance to make Lindsey an attractive corridor and by doing so revitalizing this area of town,” Kovach said. “We want to do as much as we can within the constraints of budget, and right of way.”

Additionally, bike lanes ensure better safety in an area where bicycles will be present.

“Bicycles have a legal right to the roadways,” Kovach said. “We must provide safe transportation to all forms of traffic including pedestrians. Road bike lanes are the safest for the cyclist.”

At Thursday’s forum, members of the Norman cycling community expressed the importance of bike lanes in conjunction with the Lindsey project to increase safety and access.

“Collision-related data over the last five years indicates that bicyclist are involved in only slightly more than one percent of all traffic accidents in Norman, but when they are, the bike rider sustains injuries about ninety-four percent of the time,” according to police spokesperson Capt. Tom Easley. “In examining causation of these collisions, automobile divers accounted for about sixty percent, while bicyclist contributed to the wreck about forty percent of the time.

Bicycle-involved collisions averaged 36.25 per year from 2007 through 2010, but fell to only 24 in 2011.”

That improvement in statistics could be a result of work by Norman’s Bicycle Advisory Committee which has been revamping Norman’s bicycle routes.

Additional lanes in some areas and changes in routes to avoid more congested, dangerous routes have been part of the BAC’s work in this area.

“We are very sensitive to the concerns of the business owners and property owners who we have heard loud and clear want to maintain access and minimize disruption during construction,” Rosenthal said. “We have a concept and proposed construction management politics which will do that.”

If approved by voters, in addition to funding through a general obligation bond, the city will use federal funds to pay for much of the project.

“This plan is aimed at leveraging the maximum available federal funds and coordinating this project with the planned reconstruction of the I-35-Lindsey interchange so that the impact on the traveling public and the property owners will be at one time only,” Rosenthal said. “We hope to seize this opportunity to bring a critical facelift to this corridor so that this gateway into Norman can be aesthetically transformed with underground utilities and landscaping throughout.”

Kovach and Rosenthal said the concept will continue to be refined as a result of additional public feedback and final engineering designs.

The Norman Bicycle Advisory Committee unanimously supports and is advocating bicycle lanes on West Lindsey Street, between W 24th Avenue and Berry Road.

Primary points for BAC support include:

• Lindsey is one of the few east/west arterial roads in Norman and will give bicycle access to destination locations such as (1) The University of Oklahoma, containing the largest bicycle traffic in the city, (2) a logical connection to the bicycle friendly yet-to-be-reconstructed Lindsey/I-35 bridge exchange, (3) Ed Noble Parkway’s businesses and restaurants, and (4) west Norman.

• In the case of West Lindsey, between W. 24th and Berry, bike lanes are safer and preferred over a separate multimodal pathway due to the high number of driveways, or “street cuts.”

In additional, this will be marked as an “advanced route” on the Norman Bike Route Map, indicating higher, continuous cycling speeds for the advanced rider, in which bike lanes are preferred over pathways.

• From the very recent “City of Norman Community Transportation Survey,” this fulfills the high request for “on street bicycle lanes.”

• Bicycle lanes are an important step and current direction in creating a city of Norman Comprehensive Transportation Plan, taken from the current Transportation Master Plan.

The initial example is for bicycle lanes to be included on the Cedar Lane widening project using an interim policy and street design specification.

“The roadway is heavily congested and has the highest accident rate in the metro area,” Rosenthal said."

This is true? I'm not up on the details but this is a project to widen lindsay st. from basically the highway to campus?

okay, so Cindy says:

“We are very sensitive to the concerns of the business owners and property owners who we have heard loud and clear want to maintain access and minimize disruption during construction,” Rosenthal said. “We have a concept and proposed construction management politics which will do that.”

I need someone to explain to my small mind what that last part means... I can only make sense of it with the word "politics" left out. Sigh.

If they think adding lanes is going to reduce congestion and accidents - they are crazy. It will have a short term benefit, but the extra capacity will be taken up soon enough, then what?

If they think adding lanes is going to reduce congestion and accidents - they are crazy. It will have a short term benefit, but the extra capacity will be taken up soon enough, then what?

no it won't .. this road should have been widened 20 years ago ... main st is bigger and has no traffic problem .. this is a must to move norman forward and adding the bike lanes is a huge deal as well ...

no it won't .. this road should have been widened 20 years ago ... main st is bigger and has no traffic problem .. this is a must to move norman forward and adding the bike lanes is a huge deal as well ...

Remember, Kerry only likes cowpaths for traffic. Anything more is a total failure.

no it won't .. this road should have been widened 20 years ago ... main st is bigger and has no traffic problem .. this is a must to move norman forward and adding the bike lanes is a huge deal as well ...

Man, when I was going to OU just a couple of years ago Main St. was always just as or busier than Lindsey (except on gamedays or holidays, when Lindsey definitely was the more crowded of the two).

Remember, Kerry only likes cowpaths for traffic. Anything more is a total failure.

Luckily the people of Norman get to decide on this, not someone from Jacksonville Florida.


Man, when I was going to OU just a couple of years ago Main St. was always just as or busier than Lindsey (except on gamedays or holidays, when Lindsey definitely was the more crowded of the two).

Main still is pretty busy, but it flows well. The traffic lights seem to be worked out pretty well. Now if they decide to two-way the street not sure what it will look like then.

I do think Lindsey has a lot of potential though. Also it might not be a bad idea to see pedestrian bridges added over it on the OU campus and remove all the lights that are there just for pedestrians. I would force larger vehicle traffic to use Hwy 9, but that isn't a bad thing.

Also it might not be a bad idea to see pedestrian bridges added over it on the OU campus and remove all the lights that are there just for pedestrians. I would force larger vehicle traffic to use Hwy 9, but that isn't a bad thing.

Pedestrian bridges there seems like a bad idea. As long as the lights between Elm through Asp are synchronized together it should not be much time different than having lights at only Elm & Asp and half the lights in that area are for the only access road to a few buildings. Plus freestanding pedestrian bridges that force people to walk up stairs (which would probably have to be ramps today for ADA compliance, probably making it shorter distance to walk to a stoplight that will remain), go over a road and back down again tend to be so poorly used they might as well just admit they are screwing pedestrians and not put one there.

Luckily the people of Norman get to decide on this, not someone from Jacksonville Florida.

Tru dat - the people of Norman will have to live with it, not me.

Tru dat - the people of Norman will have to live with it, not me.

the reality is the Lindsey is a terrible street from berry to I35 and this will help all forms of traffic cars/bikes/people .. and make it a much more attractive drive into campus

They could have made Lindsey a very nice two lane road with a center turn lane and included consistent bike paths and sidewalks on both sides of the street. Shortening the traffic lights would encourge more pedestrian/bike activity by keeping cars at a slower speed and spaced out. Instead, they are going to make it possible to drive 45 to 50 mph 4 lanes wide. Just look at the ideas presented above - pedestrian bridges are already suggested as a way to get over the 'new and improved' Lindsey. Money could have been better spent creating a streetcar from OU to Norman Regional via downtown and a line down Main St to Sooner Fashion - all connected by rail to downtown OKC. Congestion is caused by cars; creating an environment that encourages more cars isn't the solution. Creating a community where people don't need a car is the solution.

Of course, I am assuming people want to actually solve the problem, and not just kick the can down the road 5 to 10 years.

They could have made Lindsey a very nice two lane road with a center turn lane and included consistent bike paths and sidewalks on both sides of the street. Shortening the traffic lights would encourge more pedestrian/bike activity by keeping cars at a slower speed and spaced out. Instead, they are going to make it possible to drive 45 to 50 mph 4 lanes wide.

50 mph? Maybe at 4 AM when there is no one on it, but otherwise traffic will keep things regulated down.


Just look at the ideas presented above - pedestrian bridges are already suggested as a way to get over the 'new and improved' Lindsey.

WTF are you talking about? The walkways I mentioned were for on campus, which is not being redone. The expansion work is only from Berry to I-35 and also the work that is almost done on the East side of campus. Campus itself isn't being impacted.


Money could have been better spent creating a streetcar from OU to Norman Regional via downtown and a line down Main St to Sooner Fashion - all connected by rail to downtown OKC. Congestion is caused by cars; creating an environment that encourages more cars isn't the solution. Creating a community where people don't need a car is the solution.

Of course, I am assuming people want to actually solve the problem, and not just kick the can down the road 5 to 10 years.

While I would love to see streetcars added, it probably isn't happening anytime soon. Though it is something that needs to be included in the 50 years plan as Norman should be well over 200,000 by 2060.

They could have made Lindsey a very nice two lane road with a center turn lane and included consistent bike paths and sidewalks on both sides of the street. Shortening the traffic lights would encourge more pedestrian/bike activity by keeping cars at a slower speed and spaced out. Instead, they are going to make it possible to drive 45 to 50 mph 4 lanes wide. Just look at the ideas presented above - pedestrian bridges are already suggested as a way to get over the 'new and improved' Lindsey. Money could have been better spent creating a streetcar from OU to Norman Regional via downtown and a line down Main St to Sooner Fashion - all connected by rail to downtown OKC. Congestion is caused by cars; creating an environment that encourages more cars isn't the solution. Creating a community where people don't need a car is the solution.

Of course, I am assuming people want to actually solve the problem, and not just kick the can down the road 5 to 10 years.

45-50 ... what world do you live in????

So no speeding tickets will be issued on the new part of Lindsey?

So no speeding tickets will be issued on the new part of Lindsey?

What are you even talking about?

Traffic isn't going to become sparse all of a sudden, it'll just spread things out. Numerous curb cuts and lights will keep speed down naturally. Of course there will be plenty of patrols like there are now.

Several times a day it takes at least 20 minutes to make the drive between OU and I-35.
This hinders the efficiency of both commerce and OU.

There are also serious property damaging flooding issues along Lindsey and in other areas that this project will address.
The traffic congestion and flooding are also serious safety issues that often delay emergency response times.
To suggest that this project is not needed is to not understand the present circumstances very well at all.

With a successful Bond vote the city should turn its attention to the process of buying the necessary right of way on the north side of Lindsey St from Barry St to campus. This should also be expand to 4 lanes from Barry Street to campus. The homes on the north side of the Lindsey Street are mostly older and are not nearly as well kept as they are on the south side of the street and there are fewer of them. The big trees could either be transplanted or replanted.

This part of Lindsey also presents a serious safety issue. Its daily congestion and congestion during OU events causes major delays in emergency response times around campus that are life threating.

It’s also ashamed to have such a shabby looking main entrance to a major research university that is poised for more major growth.

It’s also ashamed to have such a shabby looking main entrance to a major research university that is poised for more major growth.

Isn't University Drive supposed to be the "main entrance"? Most signs from I-35 have you going down Main Street and turning right on University.

I also completely disagree with the idea of widening Lindsey between Berry and Elm Street. While the traffic can be irritating at times, there are alternatives that could easily be worked that will keep the traffic down through the completely residential area. The Flood connector, Highway 9, Sooner/12th street, and even Main street and Robinson once the underpass is competed are all alternate approaches to the university.

Keep in mind that every city has an issue with emergency response times during major events. Think about Washington or New York - when there is even a minor emergency, every roadway is at a standstill. That is nothing that is unique to a suburban city with an university.

What are you even talking about?

Traffic isn't going to become sparse all of a sudden, it'll just spread things out. Numerous curb cuts and lights will keep speed down naturally. Of course there will be plenty of patrols like there are now.

Are these improvements going to reduce congestion and allow shorter driving time between Berry Road and I-35 or not? How is a car going to make it to I-35 faster if it isn't driving faster? The distance is staying the same.

Distance remains the same. The stuck in traffic wait time will decrease rather than the mph increasing.

Keep in mind that every city has an issue with emergency response times during major events. Think about Washington or New York - when there is even a minor emergency, every roadway is at a standstill. That is nothing that is unique to a suburban city with an university.


It may not be unique but that doesn’t make it right or even acceptable for us.

We should set our sights much higher than average.

Distance remains the same. The stuck in traffic wait time will decrease rather than the mph increasing.

So average MPH will increase right. Won't the traffic just increase to the point that the average MPH goes back down to what it is today? Then what - 6 lanes?

Then what - 6 lanes?

No 6TH lane.


We will build an elevated fly over…..

So average MPH will increase right. Won't the traffic just increase to the point that the average MPH goes back down to what it is today? Then what - 6 lanes?

so with your logic .. we should never have a 4 lane road .... maybe I35 should just be 1 lane in each direction???

so with your logic .. we should never have a 4 lane road .... maybe I35 should just be 1 lane in each direction???


Boulder, now you under Kerry. That's exactly what he thinks.

so with your logic .. we should never have a 4 lane road .... maybe I35 should just be 1 lane in each direction???

Four lane boulevards sure. Rural interstates - yep. Urban interstates - nope. St Louis is in the process of removing I-70 through downtown and replacing it with an at-grade boulevard (sound familiar?).

http://americancity.org/buzz/entry/3403/

So will removing urban interstates work, even if they are just moving them a few blocks for now? We will soon find out first hand. Rest assured though, if land along the removed freeway skyrockets AFTER the removal more people are going to want the freeway near them removed as well. We already see what a great attractor of quality developments I-40 through OKC has been.

I don’t think anybody is seriously talking about making Lindsey Street in Norman an urban interstate.

I don’t think anybody is seriously talking about making Lindsey Street in Norman an urban interstate.

That wasn't in the comment I was refering to so I agree, no one is talking about making Lindsey an urban interstate. I-35 is an urban interstate though.

Lots of earth moving happening on both sides of Robinson (north & south) on the east side of I35. looks like they're starting to begin work on that interchange. Does anyone have links to renderings of what this will all look like when completed?

^^
In that regard, there is also a good mile or so of temporary jersey barriers between Lindsey and Main on the Northbound side. From the looks of it there doesn't appear to be a lot of dirt work but I would imagine its not to far off.

i'm not sure if there are any good ones... i was at a UNP update back in February, and the rendering they had for their presentation wasn't very good.

Lots of earth moving happening on both sides of Robinson (north & south) on the east side of I35. looks like they're starting to begin work on that interchange. Does anyone have links to renderings of what this will all look like when completed?

I drove by their yesterday and it looked like they were doing utility directional drilling and just starting on new drainage.
It also looked like they may be getting ready to build temporary by pass lanes on the east / north bound side.

i'm not sure if there are any good ones... i was at a UNP update back in February, and the rendering they had for their presentation wasn't very good.

There was one in the Transcript print edition a few weeks back. However looking at the article online it isn't available there.

City council members will consider calling a general obligation bond election for Aug. 28 that would provide $42.5 million for street and bridge improvements, including a widening project for W Lindsey Street. The council meets at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday in the Municipal Building’s council chambers, 201 W Gray St.
The city proposes widening W Lindsey from Interstate 35 to Berry Road, increasing driving lanes to four, including a center turn lane, and incorporating landscaped areas, bike lanes and sidewalk improvements.
The roadwork would be coupled with drainage improvements to solve flooding problems along Lindsey, especially at the McGee Street intersection, often dubbed “Lake McGee” when it rains.
Other improvements that would be funded if the bond package is approved include reconstruction of the W Main Street bridge at Brookhaven Creek, reconstruction of the Franklin Road bridge at Little River, widening 36th Avenue NW from Tecumseh Road to Indian Hills Road and widening Alameda Street from 24th Avenue E to 48th Avenue E. ...


http://newsok.com/norman-city-council-will-consider-calling-bond-election/article/3669027?custom_click=pod_headline_norman-news

i'll vote for it! not a project mentioned that i think is a terrible idea

I will vote for this too........ but so much more is needed.

Lindsey between I-35 and Berry is a nightmare. I support any kind of improvements they want to do to the area. Like others have already said, it should've been widened 20 years ago. Better late than never.

Can anyone define 'improvement'? What exactly are you expecting to get better?

Can anyone define 'improvement'? What exactly are you expecting to get better?

perhaps the drainage gets done slightly better so that there is not 8 inches of water sitting at Lindsey and McGee if it rains half an inch...

the ability to pass that person who feels the need to drive 25 miles per hour from berry all the way to I-35 (happens quite often)

when going west bound from I-35, don't have to worry about people not knowing that the road goes to 1 lane right after Del Rancho, so they swerve over and almost hit your vehicle cause they didn't look before merging...

allow for more traffic to be on the road with it being two lanes so that a light at McGee and Lindsey doesn't make traffic stop at Flood and Lindsey

just to name a few

perhaps the drainage gets done slightly better so that there is not 8 inches of water sitting at Lindsey and McGee if it rains half an inch...

the ability to pass that person who feels the need to drive 25 miles per hour from berry all the way to I-35 (happens quite often)

when going west bound from I-35, don't have to worry about people not knowing that the road goes to 1 lane right after Del Rancho, so they swerve over and almost hit your vehicle cause they didn't look before merging...

allow for more traffic to be on the road with it being two lanes so that a light at McGee and Lindsey doesn't make traffic stop at Flood and Lindsey

just to name a few

All good reasons, but don't worry. Kerry is just against any project like this that doesn't fit his vision of what a city should be. Luckily he doesn't live in Norman, hell he doesn't even live in Oklahoma (why he still trolls here is beyond me), so what he thinks has nothing to do...and will do nothing...to us that actually live and work here.

I can't speak for Kerry but I still call OKC home. =)

No worries Sid - half the people on OKCTalk don't live in Oklahoma. Which probably explains why our idea seem so revolutionary. For the record though, my mom lives off Alameda and I have a sister that works at Walmart by I35 and a sister that works at OU.

No worries Sid - half the people on OKCTalk don't live in Oklahoma. Which probably explains why our idea seem so revolutionary. For the record though, my mom lives off Alameda and I have a sister that works at Walmart by I35 and a sister that works at OU.


i think most of the "live in oklahoma" category are too busy complaining about what WWLS did or didn't do over on the sports section of the forum. I always love going over there for a laugh

the ability to pass that person who feels the need to drive 25 miles per hour from berry all the way to I-35 (happens quite often)



The distance is 1 mile. The cumulative difference between 35 mph (posted) and 25 mph on this distance is about 30 seconds. Assuming you're going the speed limit and considering traffic, by the time you pass them, you will probably have to cut them off to get into the turn lane for 35.

Check out Edmond, where all the family-friendly arterials are 4-5 lanes with a typical posted speed limit of 45 mph. I would argue the traffic there is much more unpleasant and dangerous than in Norman.

The distance is 1 mile. The cumulative difference between 35 mph (posted) and 25 mph on this distance is about 30 seconds. Assuming you're going the speed limit and considering traffic, by the time you pass them, you will probably have to cut them off to get into the turn lane for 35.

Check out Edmond, where all the family-friendly arterials are 4-5 lanes with a typical posted speed limit of 45 mph. I would argue the traffic there is much more unpleasant and dangerous than in Norman.


but with stop lights the time could mean the difference between hitting a light or not hitting a light... meaning the difference in time could be as much as 3 or 4 minutes... not to mention that it actually slows down traffic even more because of this.... have you ever seen lindsey with a solid line of cars going all the way from McGee to campus? cause i have. and perhaps my statement that a 25 mile per hour driver on a main thoroughfare that is a single lane in each direction in the states 3rd most populous city, is the incorrect one to convince you, it is still part of a problem.

http://www.progressnorman.com/projects/

Norman has its chance to start chipping a way at some transportation needs in an upcoming Bond Issue. Nothing comes without its challenges, but the long discussed 5-laning of Lindsey Street will finally get a chance. Although there may be other needs that some feel more important, I think its important to vote yes to the chances we get. If this fails, it solves nothing and then creates doubt and apathy for anything else we would like to see on future bond issues. Let's face it, the bond rates are at lows and the city has a chance to do something that was needed 20+ years ago. Let's push this through so other projects can be addressed on the next one.

August 28th is the vote (http://www.normanok.gov/sites/default/files/WebFM/Norman/City%20Manager/Transporation%20Special%20Election.pdf).

Do you really think making Lindsey 5 lanes is going to solve the traffic problem? Isn't a wider road just going to encourage more people to use it? I mean, it isn't like the traffic count will stay the same after it goes to 5 lanes. Five years after it is done and traffic is worse will you consider the thought that adding lanes doesn't work?

Checkout Traffic Equilibrium

http://www.ifor.math.ethz.ch/press/Leitartikel_Oktober_2006.pdf

or skip that and go right to the Braess paradox

http://vcp.med.harvard.edu/braess-paradox.html

Spoiler alert - adding capacity makes traffic worse. Look at ODOT's plan for the elevated boulevard in OKC. Today 0 cars drive that route because the old I-40 is closed. ODOT says if they build their elevated road 94,000 cars a day will use it. Where are those 94,000 cars today? They certainly aren't on downtown streets today. Conversely, if every street in America went away tonight (wake up in the morning and all the streets are gone) - would there be traffic congestion at 8AM? The answer is no - there would not be traffic congestion.

I watched a really good documentary tonight on urban planning and a couple of cities had a really good wat to solve the traffic problems. They are eliminating all parking. You can drive if you want, but there is no where to park your car when you get there.

Of course let's just ignore the fact that this stretch of road is one of the highest accident areas in the state. That and the massive flooding that routinely takes place here doesn't matter in the least. Let's just turn it into a cow path again which would be the best for everyone. If there was an alternative route to this available people would be using it now. That's just a silly argument. You're trying to compare a freeway to an arterial city street. The amount of people needing to get from west Norman to the campus area isn't going to change because this road is widened and won't go down if it's left as it is. Kerry you need to learn to live in the real world. Your urban planning idea won't work in every case. Sans mass transit how do you expect university students who can't live in Norman to get there? Many are not full time students and have jobs elsewhere. Not everyone can arrange their lives to fit your wishes.

Sans mass transit how do you expect university students who can't live in Norman to get there?

So after the people get off I-35 on the new 5-lane Lindsey Street, how far back do you think traffic will stack at Berry where it goes back to 2 lanes? The high accident rate is probably a reflection of the inexperieced drivers who frequent this road so adding lanes and speed should go smoothly, especially with the introduction of bicycles.

This is going to make a nice urban planning case study for someone in 10 years.

Do you really think making Lindsey 5 lanes is going to solve the traffic problem? Isn't a wider road just going to encourage more people to use it? I mean, it isn't like the traffic count will stay the same after it goes to 5 lanes. Five years after it is done and traffic is worse will you consider the thought that adding lanes doesn't work?

Spoiler alert - adding capacity makes traffic worse. Look at ODOT's plan for the elevated boulevard in OKC. Today 0 cars drive that route because the old I-40 is closed. ODOT says if they build their elevated road 94,000 cars a day will use it. Where are those 94,000 cars today? They certainly aren't on downtown streets today. Conversely, if every street in America went away tonight (wake up in the morning and all the streets are gone) - would there be traffic congestion at 8AM? The answer is no - there would not be traffic congestion.

I watched a really good documentary tonight on urban planning and a couple of cities had a really good wat to solve the traffic problems. They are eliminating all parking. You can drive if you want, but there is no where to park your car when you get there.


really so you think the traffic is worse on Broadway extension at its current 3 lanes on each side then it would be at 2 lanes on each side or 1 lane each direction??

lindsay in norman is one of the worst roads in the entire metro for traffic/wrecks and flooding .. and it will be much better on all 3 counts ..


is your point of view that no road should ever be expanded for any reason???