[QUOTE=BBatesokc;487038]I'm with mmonroe on this one. I too stopped for a bit at Kerr park and sat down and talked to three or four people. I wanted to take some pics, but they were adamantly against it and i wasn't in a particularly feisty mood. I'm all for protest, as long as the protest has foundation - even if I don't agree with it. Nobody I talked to could communicate what they were protesting other than what they perceived as 'those damn rich people' and how they couldn't get ahead in this world.


When someone gets killed or raped down there there will be plenty of people blaming the city for not providing adequate security. Already they are blaming the police for not having sufficient response time and not throwing people out who they don't believe belong there. Get this -- they are blaming the Public Works department for not collecting their garbage often enough. Hmm...The park wasn't meant to be a campground -- why should the sanitation schedule have to change to accommodate these people? Make them rent a dumpster or haul off their trash. For people who believe the government is fostering all that is wrong with society and allowing the rich to be rich and keeping the poor poor, they sure are demanding about city services.

I find not wanting Brian to take their pictures to be comical. These people are making themselves the news, but believe that they should be private when they demand? Its typical of selfishness that pervades society today -- I want what I want, when I want it. Is this selfishness all that different from the selfishness that underlies the capitalism they seem to hate so much? Yes it is -- the capitalists they hate used their own self-interestedness to be successful, while these people can't find anything better to do than sit in a tent in a park and demand that the city coddle them so that they can feel self-righteous. Bleech.

And for the record, I'm a liberal from a place where the only political parties that matter are the Irish Democrats or Italian Democrats. I grew up with parents and grandparents who worked as many jobs as they needed to put food on the table and clothes on their kids backs. When I was little my grandmother showed me the picture of Tip O'Neill on the wall and told me that the smartest kids should grow up to be in government so that they can help people who need help. These Occupy people and the idiot Democrats in Congress are no more true liberals than the right-wing talk show hosts are true conservatives. None of them understand a damn bit about what government is supposed to do or about how an economy is supposed to work. I shouldn't single out the Occupy idiots any more than the idiots who faithfully listen to and form opinions based on the Glen Beck show. Honestly, it all disgusts me.

What a Pathetic group, I hope OKC enforces the 11p.m.-6:00a.m. curfew...they never let the homeless stay there...these people have lots of tents like they plan to camp out...


Just for information..

As for security, the costs of dealing with them keeps going up and it's isn't "the greedy" paying.

Denver Post - Tab to taxpayers for Occupy Denver security now close to $800,000 (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19425882)

Sadly, I know it would do no good to protest the protest. I do wish however that there was a way to educate these participants in how to actually get a change in government instead of basing their ideology solely on the words of their friends or acquaintances who "know what they're talking about" when it comes to the Occupy movement. I see them as nothing more than a group of vigilantes hiding behind their "cause" of which they don't exactly know what they're standing for.

Their focus has changed from the actual movement of governmental change to that of the men and women there to protect their safety of which, I, a tax payer, am paying for.

I'm sorry, but this is not historical, no change will come about by this, and another generation receives a bad name. The next step to this is a riot because it only really takes one bad apple and the rest will blindly follow.

Quote me.

Midtowner, I would not have said if I had not gone down there myself. It's one thing to speak your own voice than it is to speak anothers. To compare these protest to that of egypts or libyas i believe is insulting. Everyone has their first amendment rights but you also have to follow state and local laws as well. You have the right to peacefully assemble and you have the right to say what ever you want without fear of backlash. But you also have to be respectful and mindful of others around you. The display at walmart was a pointless mockery and the guy leading it was a douche bag. I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously, especially this guy or anyone else who can just quote historical figures out of context and spout out ignorance with every chant.

Oh, I agree about Wal-Mart, but Kerr Park is another story.


If this group really wanted to do something, find a person for office, vote for that person, get them in, have them represent you. If you feel your government isn't representing you, vote them out of office, make it known you don't like this person and why. Change the government in a long lasting way and be heard. Sure it takes time, but its quality. Patience really is a virtue and these guys are mindless idiots, and that is MY opinion.

That's kind of the point of OWS. While a nice thought, that's just not realistic anymore unless you happen to have millions of dollars to burn on political campaign expenses.

That's kind of the point of OWS. While a nice thought, that's just not realistic anymore unless you happen to have millions of dollars to burn on political campaign expenses.

So.. Democracy is dead?

So.. Democracy is dead?

maybe so, but it appears ignorance is thriving!

Democracy sucks. That is why we have a republic. :)

So.. Democracy is dead?

Our elected form of government is really now only serving those who can amass large sums of money to support their respective agendas.

$ = power.

Lobbying firms are people my friend

Our elected form of government is really now only serving those who can amass large sums of money to support their respective agendas.

$ = power.


Is the "$ = power" new? No, it's been going on forever. It's not right or fair, but it's nothing new. Either way, a person still has the right to vote. This country has pathetic voter turnout, but we love to complain about our elected officials. In my opinion, only those who voted have the right to complain about our lawmakers. Those who were too lazy to go vote can shut their mouths.

Perhaps if more people took part in the election of our public officials we might just end up with some that actually represent the people, and not just their donors' interests.

It costs a lot of money to run for office but voting is free.

A problem I have with OWS is that they keep harping on democracy. What democracy is about is taking the "group" and making it sovereign. By its nature, it encourages mob rule and a loss of rights for minority groups.

A republic considers the individual to be sovereign. They do not lose their rights simply because a large group out votes them - the constitution protects those rights. The trend towards bullying anyone out of their garden variety human rights because it impacts the majority is going to destroy what makes this country wonderful if it is not stopped. If people want to drop out of the system and ignore the law, they are taking a stand to destroy this country. In so many words they want to burn it down and let the mob take what they want - because they can.

The trend towards bullying anyone out of their garden variety human rights because it impacts the majority is going to destroy what makes this country wonderful if it is not stopped.

Classic, considering the police actions we've seen out of these protests.

I wonder who will be out tomorrow policing the OKC police?

Where is a brick wall when you need one...

Where is a brick wall when you need one...

There's several in Kerr Park!

maybe so, but it appears ignorance is thriving!
Indeed it is.

Took this, this morning.....

http://www.dermandar.com/p/dLEmnp/occupy-okc

and this one....

http://www.dermandar.com/p/bGLkYo/occupy-okc

I guess they're still asleep?

I thought I heard on the late news last night they got another day to wait on a judicial ruling?

Took this, this morning.....

http://www.dermandar.com/p/dLEmnp/occupy-okc

and this one....

http://www.dermandar.com/p/bGLkYo/occupy-okc

Looks like a terrible threat to OKC.

Looks like a terrible threat to OKC.

Certainly looks like trash that needs to be removed...

I guess they're still asleep?

Actually, most (virtually all) of the tents were empty and full of 'junk.' I saw people in 3 tents.

After filing a lawsuit in federal court Thursday, Occupy OKC organizers say they anticipate a judge will side with them and uphold their right to free speech, allowing them to continue to assemble peacefully in Kerr Park.

“I'm fairly confident we're going to get a good day in court with this,” member Mark Faulk said.

Faulk, 55, said it's unknown at this time what will happen to the group if the judge rejects their temporary restraining order and injunction against the city to prevent officials from enforcing a curfew.

Protesters have been camping out at Kerr Park in downtown Oklahoma City for two months and were recently denied a permit to the park because of issues presented by construction on the SandRidge campus and because intoxicated transients ransacked the camp Sunday.

After the incident, police said the group's permit wouldn't be renewed.

Organizers have met with council members and Oklahoma City police to resolve the issue but were given until 11 p.m. Thursday to clear out of the park.

City is waiting to act

Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said earlier this week that while he respects the group's constitutional rights, “we cannot allow permanent encampments in our city park, and so we're trying to work with them.”

City spokeswoman Kristy Yager said officials had no plans to enforce the curfew overnight Thursday in order to give a judge time to review the lawsuit.

Read more: http://newsok.com/occupy-okc-files-lawsuit-to-stay-in-park/article/3628496#ixzz1fOfP7F3o

Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said earlier this week that while he respects the group's constitutional rights, “we cannot allow permanent encampments in our city park..."

^^ this! ^^

Additional pics I took....

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3826/screenshot20111202at105.png

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3826/screenshot20111202at105.png

As clean and safe as the Arts Festival and miles ahead of any event I've attended at State Fair Park. YMMV.

As clean and safe as the Arts Festival and miles ahead of any event I've attended at State Fair Park. YMMV.

I would completely disagree. Both the Arts Festival and Fair are usually very clean events and a much larger undertaking to keep clean. These people are filthy and it looks like a homeless camp. Actually, I've literally been to several of the metro's homeless camps and this is worse.

I'll shoot you some photos of both next time around...

Looking at those pictures, they certainly aren't folks I ever shared a campsite with. I've known passles of grade school lads and lasses who were far tidier than this.

I'll shoot you some photos of both next time around...

Go for it, and be sure and put it into perspective with the entire 'event space.' There is a huge difference in taking a photo of an overflowing trash can at an event the size of the fair or Arts Fest and photos that show a large portion of this park that they are using is now filthy and comes at a real cost to the tax paying public that doesn't have use of this park and has to see it every day.

Looking at those pictures, they certainly aren't folks I ever shared a campsite with. I've known passles of grade school lads and lasses who were far tidier than this.

Agreed. There is no excuse for the mess and filth. I camp and frequent camp sites and I never see this trash except from some college kids throwing a party at a camp site.

They could get some good tips from this guy i interviewed....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4OlFFgV54&feature=channel_video_title

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these 'protesters' didn't know him.

I used to like to sit on the steps and eat lunch in Kerr Park...not anymore.

I did a drive by though downtown today and what a disaster. But I digress, we're not here to talk about the construction. <rimshot>



Go for it, and be sure and put it into perspective with the entire 'event space.' There is a huge difference in taking a photo of an overflowing trash can at an event the size of the fair or Arts Fest and photos that show a large portion of this park that they are using is now filthy and comes at a real cost to the tax paying public that doesn't have use of this park and has to see it every day.

Lets do that, see more of the entire event space for some perspective.

Here's a video in three takes. The first one is driving down the north side. There's enough vacant space to have a couple of weddings, much less a dozen or two solitary lunches.

The second shot in the video is turning the corner and heading south along the east side. Same thing, with a few tents in the background late in the second shot.

The third shot is driving down and around the west end of the park, which is completely vacant too. We continue in that shot down the south side where finally, we find the Occupation, and then another shot of the large vacant spot at the SE corner.

Looks to me like they are occupying maybe 15 percent of the available space.

n8NAGof0nNc

Ok, the sign on that one tent, that they will 'remain here until the grievances of Occupy OKC and Occupy Wall Street are addressed". What exactly are the grievances they want addressed and what needs to happen, specifically, for them to know they have been addressed.

I did a drive by though downtown today and what a disaster. But I digress, we're not here to talk about the construction. <rimshot>




Lets do that, see more of the entire event space for some perspective.

Here's a video in three takes. The first one is driving down the north side. There's enough vacant space to have a couple of weddings, much less a dozen or two solitary lunches.

The second shot in the video is turning the corner and heading south along the east side. Same thing, with a few tents in the background late in the second shot.

The third shot is driving down and around the west end of the park, which is completely vacant too. We continue in that shot down the south side where finally, we find the Occupation, and then another shot of the large vacant spot at the SE corner.

Looks to me like they are occupying maybe 15 percent of the available space.

n8NAGof0nNc

Thanks for helping to make my point. I never said they take up the whole park. However, the part they do 'occupy' is filthy and is mostly occupied by their junk and very few living breathing souls (at least at 7:30am when I was there). The doors of the buildings in the area also have large signs telling the filthy protesters to stay out. They've also had plenty of necessary police involvement for such a tiny space they 'occupy.' Next time actually park and mingle. You see, I made sure I had actually seen the place up close and personal and spoke to the protesters before I made my comments.

Looks like we (as in those of us with jobs and/or who pay taxes) will be hosting the homeless encampment until at least next Wednesday. A judge gave them until then for a final hearing on the matter. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

I never said they take up the whole park.

No, you said


comes at a real cost to the tax paying public that doesn't have use of this park

And you presented tightly composed and cropped shots that did not show the whole "event space" as you say is so important.

The public has use of all of the park. Occupy wall street, part of the public, is using maybe 15% of it and the rest is pretty much vacant.

Well, I have to say, based on DE's video, they don't look all that messy, to me. They look a little pathetic, but not messy. They look like children camping out although kids would be cute while adults are just embarassing. Seriously, these people must not have any life at all if doing this is the most meaningful thing they can think to do.

Living in the park to the extent that it breaks the law is wrong. That they aren't burning something down or on the order of what is going on in NYC is not the point. Just because they want to make a spectacle of themselves isn't enough to let them squat. I mean, if they can do this, why can't the homeless? If this is all the enthusiasm as they've been able to muster, they should go home and run for office or something. And I wish they would do it before the snow and ice flies because there is just no point in getting sick and people would just laugh at them for being losers. The longer they stay there, the more they look like people less interested in solving problems than simply people who don't have a life and never will.

But I have to agree that just because they don't take up the whole park, physically, they have effectively hogged it. No one wants to be around that. They don't know who is homeless, mentally ill or what. It could be unsafe to be around them. That isn't right.

The rest of the park is pretty much blocked off because of the building coming down. They used to be up on the top part until they were told they had to move all into that one area because of the demo.

No, you said



And you presented tightly composed and cropped shots that did not show the whole "event space" as you say is so important.

The public has use of all of the park. Occupy wall street, part of the public, is using maybe 15% of it and the rest is pretty much vacant.

Yeah those sweeping panos I provided were so tightly cropped. We gained so much more from your driveby photo skills. I'm downtown every day and that park used to be utilized by professionals on nice days at lunch. The vagabonds that managed to only occupy 15% of the park have made the rest of it completely undesirable. The only reason the filth isn't worse is because those that occupy a job are paying to see their trash is emptied, they have a receptical to plug their microwave into and that police respond when their fellow protesters get out of hand.

A little underwhelming.

A little underwhelming.

Quite underwhelming. We should all be up in arms and lay plans to send in the clowns.


sweeping panos

The ones where you set up the camera right in the middle of the tents such that you can't see the 85% of the park that's not occupied. Yeah, that's the ones I'm referring too.

So sorry a "professional" decided 85% of the park wasn't big enough for their ego. I mean lunch.

Quite underwhelming. We should all be up in arms and lay plans to send in the clowns.



The ones where you set up the camera right in the middle of the tents such that you can't see the 85% of the park that's not occupied. Yeah, that's the ones I'm referring too.

So..... to make my point, that the area they are utilizing is a pigsty, your expectation would be that I photograph the parts of the park they are not utilizing..... :doh:


Because you support your view so well by keeping your distance and driving by...

My expectation of you is that you continue with your usual sensationalism.

Yes, DE, but let's be honest. People aren't going to go there when the tents are there and people are squatting. It is not relaxing, it is just weird feeling and it may not be safe. Those are legitimate reactions/concerns. When we have a public park, it isn't intended to serve as the bedroom of strangers. If it would be odd for your neighbor to suddenly move there, it would be odd for anyone else, either. That they allegedly are doing it for political reasons doesn't change the fact that they are impacting the ability for the citizens to enjoy the park. And it wasn't intended to be used as a homeless site. Propping up a sign and claiming they're there for political reasons doesn't change the fact that people who haven't done a single thing to them lose the right to what they have paid for AND get to pay to keep them secure, keep them clean, and keep their microwaves running. And from all appearances, since these losers aren't working, there is no end in sight in terms of how long the rest of us are going to have to continue to support them. - and that is one BIG difference between a protestor and an occupier - the people most negatively impacted are the ones who are having to pay for the pleasure of allowing these guys to sleep, rent free, in the park.

Peaceable assembly to protest is every bit of a proper use of public space, if not more so, than eating one's lunch.

Peaceable assembly to protest is every bit of a proper use of public space, if not more so, than eating one's lunch.

Assembling is not the same thing as camping out. No one is suggesting that they can't peacefully assemble. But to do that, you expect people to show up, protest, then leave. By camping, they are always there. They are sleeping, eating, cooking, living, making love, washing dishes, wringing out clothes, dating, arguing with their mate, etc. By squatting, they change the dynamics of what they are execting other people to have to deal with. This is no more "peaceful assembly," than if they showed up in your backyard and pitched a tent, expecting you and and your family to adjust to their lifestyle - while you pay for their electricity and are responsible to keep them safe. Even if you don't want them there.

Agreed. There is no excuse for the mess and filth. I camp and frequent camp sites and I never see this trash except from some college kids throwing a party at a camp site.

They could get some good tips from this guy i interviewed....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT4OlFFgV54&feature=channel_video_title

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these 'protesters' didn't know him.

I saw the last post on YT about this guy was a while ago. BB have you seen him lately is he still around?

The occupiers are ruining the park, I am through there 3-5 times a week...it is starting to stink and is becoming mainly a homeless area...I appreciate what the others are trying to do but they need to lose the dead weight...

I dont know whats worse the mess they have made or the horrible traffic flow with a seemingly red light at every corner topped off with the never ending construction.
:dizzy:

Maybe all of the big buildings need to be moved further out into the suburbs.
Leaving the Urban Core to Campers . . .
I think this may have been tried at Mesa Verde (Colorado) a while back.

BTW, Ach: If you think downtown street ClusterFX are bad here, you ain't been to St. Paul.

Quite underwhelming. We should all be up in arms and lay plans to send in the clowns.



The ones where you set up the camera right in the middle of the tents such that you can't see the 85% of the park that's not occupied. Yeah, that's the ones I'm referring too.

So sorry a "professional" decided 85% of the park wasn't big enough for their ego. I mean lunch.


They pretty much have all the tables. I guess we could sit on the ground to eat lunch.

7SwKxUz7osM&feature

Here's one of the people hogging the picnic table . . .
Not the actual picnic table, but the metaphorical, virtual one.
More to follow . . . =)

Peaceable assembly to protest is every bit of a proper use of public space, if not more so, than eating one's lunch.

So you consider throwing ones trash on the ground, drunken disorder and urinating in planters to be part of a peaceful assembly, that speaks volumes.

I saw the last post on YT about this guy was a while ago. BB have you seen him lately is he still around?

Not recently, but I used to see him quite regularly after the city booted him and 6 others from their camp near S. Western and the River (directly East of the old downtown AirPark). He moved to the camp near S. I-35 and SE 44 and I'd see him quite often panhandling that intersection. I assume he's moved to another part of the city, has been incarcerated or died. I have a police officer friend who works a lot at the homeless shelter who knew him quite well. I'll check with him. Larry had his issues and addictions, but was actually very nice on the few occasions I met with him. I hear though he could be quite the opposite.

Peaceable assembly to protest is every bit of a proper use of public space, if not more so, than eating one's lunch.

And I value that right as much, or more, than most people. I've protested and participated in real protests far more times than many people. I know a 'protest' when I see one and this is not it. As with so many rights - yours end where mine begin. The city has a right to enforce a curfew and restrict the 'protesters' to reasonable hours (18 hours if I remember correctly) and forbid things like tents.

The city, whom I'm often critical of, is actually upholding its obligations and is being quite accommodating. It is these vagabonds that have crossed the line and hopefully Mother Nature will do what the city seems to be too weary to do.

As for your 'sensationalism' comment. That's just par for you - throw something out with nothing to back it up. There was nothing 'sensation' about the fact I actually got out of my car (on 4 occasions now), talked to the protesters, looked around and took photos. I would call that due diligence - but hey, some people think they get the whole picture while sealed up in their car driving by.

when would a prtest go from a group exercising their const. right of free assembly to a Mob, violence not being an issue in either question?
Not being argumentative just wondering the members individual thoughts on the above question.

When would a protest go from a group exercising their constitutional right of free assembly, to a Mob? Violence not being an issue in either question?
Not being argumentative just wondering the members individual thoughts on the above question.When (if) they break the law...

7SwKxUz7osM&feature

Here's one of the people hogging the picnic table . . .
Not the actual picnic table, but the metaphorical, virtual one.
More to follow . . . =)

Hes right on time for the christmas holidays. All i want for christmas is a college education.