You want the reason why it takes two to make a living, now? When women started working out of the home not only did they put men out of work, families suddenly had far more discretionary income that resulted in people spending money like there is no tomorrow - typically for gum. In no time flat, the standard of living went from one person working and living simply (but everyone was the same way so no one thought anything of it) to thinking that we "had" to eat out, take vacations, buy big houses, send the kids to expensive summer camp, blah, blah, blah.

The people you insist are such victims should try living like the ones you say had it so good for awhile before they blame corporations and Congress. Think about it:

No eating out, no vacations, no new car - certainly not two cars, a small house with one bathroom, a single car garage, a push mower, hand me down furniture, no cell, one telephone, no internet or cable, no movies except for special occasions, no soft drinks or chips except for special occasions, simple Christmases, one or two presents per child for Christmas and birthdays, one pair of dress shoes, one pair of hand me down shoes. Most younger kids got hand me down clothes. Stay at home mom's frequently sewed their family's clothes and made curtains/slip covers. Entertainment was usually along the lines of having the neighbors over for potluck. You fixed your own car, changed your own oil, colored your own hair, repaired your tires and replaced them with used ones. You cut your own hair, didn't pay for child care. If you were able to have children, at all, chances are you had 3 - 6 and most shared a room - often they shared a bed. Even the non Catholics. Dogs and cats (the babies of today), got a rabies shot to get their dog license but people didn't spend much money to feed them or take them to the vet. Kids didn't go to the doctor unless they had a broken arm or were on fire. Home remedies were the norm for just about everything else - turpentine played a large role. Weddings were simple church events or at the Justice of the Peace and the reception consisted of mints, cake and punch. The honeymoon was usually simple. For the average person, it was a long weekend - often camping. You gave a young couple towels or a toaster to help them get started - nothing extravagant. Child support for childdren not living in the home existed but it wasn't common as it is, today.

I could go on and on. I am not saying those were better days. I am saying that it is irrational to think we can have all the stuff we have, today, and expect our expenses to allow us to continue to be able to live on one income. People, today, who lived as simply as people did back in the day would be considered weird. Before it became commonplace for women to work, you'd have been considered either a spendthrift or you were upper middle class with spoiled kids if you had the expenses I just listed.

Moreover, the corporations you want to blame have nothing to do with the explosion of divorce and single moms, child support being paid or prevalence of non Catholic private schools.

Now talk about the costs added into products by government rules and regulations. I'm not making a statement that they are necessarily all bad or unnecessary. How many add-ons to the manufacture of automobiles are caused by government safety and pollution controls or government mandated gas milage requirements? How much is added to the cost of products due to product liability cases and insurance? How much is added to the cost of products due to labor agreements? You see, there is so much that has changed and added to our costs of living that have nothing to do with "big business" but rather "big government" and "big labor" and simple inflation caused by higher living standards.

Re: $2K new cars and $.25 gasoline.
FantasyLand:
Even then a new $2K car was pretty basic. (Like, a VW bug that wasn't environmentally or safety conscious)
American Produced Cars in that price range (like the Pinto--from Ford) exploded if you even shot a mean look at the trunk.
The Corvair (from GM) was noted for rolling over if you had a third person in the back seat who wasn't sitting, unbuckled and unhelmeted, in the exact middle.

Thank goodness Ralph Nader straightened everything out.

But at least now we don't have to worry about The Rooskies lobbing a bomb our direction . . .
Oh. wait.

Re: $2K new cars and $.25 gasoline.
FantasyLand:
Even then a new $2K car was pretty basic. (Like, a VW bug that wasn't environmentally or safety conscious)
American Produced Cars in that price range (like the Pinto--from Ford) exploded if you even shot a mean look at the trunk.



lol True...the $2000 car was a Chevy Vega. However, my friend's Shelby GT500 was $4500. A few years later, I bought a full size pick-up for $4000, new.

Edited to add: Cheap gas was a reality, though. It was $.18/gal when I first started driving and by the time we hit college, the highest priced gas available (which we sought out for the Shelby) was $.36/gal.

Anyone heard what is going on at the park right now with the protestors? Lots of police and they have taped off the area. Looks like a crime scene...

TaoMaas!:

Dang. I done fergot about the Vega! Cool name. Sorta Sci-Fi in a way: "VEGA . . . A star in the automotive galaxy . . ." I guess I substituted Corvair instead.

Pretty sure that the Vega had a more durable fuel tank than the Pinto.
And didn't roll over in the blink of an eye.

When I graduated from High School, my parents gave me a graduation present.
$2K to buy a car (for college) or to take a Graduated H.S. Social Studies Club Trip to Kenya.

I looked around (saw The Vega and The Pinto and even that P.O.S. from American Motors, The Pacer).
Opted for a brand-new BMW instead. R-75. Motorcycle.
Put LOTS of miles on it (at .27 gal. for high octane).

Then rode a Harley. Decided to switch.
Sold the BMW for more than I paid for it. =)
But I had added a faehring and saddlebags.
Plus a luggage rack. =)

Today, I still wonder what life would have been like had I taken that trip to Kenya.
No. Really. I don't. =)

So . . . Did the Rockford File producers ever sue Seinfeld or "When Harry Met Sally" for Intellectual Property Theft in regard to The Diner Scene?
They could have given all the proceeds to The Occupy The Park People . . .

I'd bet Jim Rockford would survey the situation and venture to say that The Entire Occupy Movement was a "crime scene" before any actual crime actually occurred! The tough part is sorting out the victims from the perps!

(Did I forget to mention that Minimum Wage back then was around $1.25? Or, at the most, $3.13?
Or that a new VW still didn't have a Real Heater or a radiator?)

Anyone heard what is going on at the park right now with the protestors? Lots of police and they have taped off the area. Looks like a crime scene...

Just saw the same thing on a different board.

When I graduated from High School, my parents gave me a graduation present.
$2K to buy a car (for college) or to take a Graduated H.S. Social Studies Club Trip to Kenya.

I looked around (saw The Vega and The Pinto and even that P.O.S. from American Motors, The Pacer).
Opted for a brand-new BMW instead. R-75. Motorcycle.
Put LOTS of miles on it (at .27 gal. for high octane).

Can't speak for the Kenya trip, but you made the right choice in choosing the BMW over the Vega. My Vega was a much better car than it's reputation would make people suspect...up to a point. It had an aluminum block, so the first time it over-heated, the block warped and it leaked oil like crazy. On a completely unrelated note...one of our other friends had a '67 GT500 Shelby with 2 four-barrel carbs. He got into a bit of trouble with the law and had to sell his car to prove that he'd settled down. The dealership gave him $500 trade-in towards a new Vega. LOL

Hmmm...that's pretty much my lifestyle with two incomes...although we do have cell phones, internet, and cable, plus our house has a bath and a half and a 2-car garage (but it's the exception on our street). Everything else is what we do today...used cars, modest Christmas, no movies, cut my own hair, etc... What you're leaving out is that, these days, we don't have new cars for $2000, $.30/gal gas, homes for $25,000 or less, $.05 hamburgers (should you choose to go out to eat), $1/carload nights at the drive-in movies. Those are the type of things that made it possible to cut corners and get by on a single income.

I pretty much only addressed costs that were practically nonexistent prior to the two income family norm. It may have only cost .05 for a burger but that doesn't matter if you don't buy it. These days, you save a lot more than that if you are going to try to live the way they did.

Can't speak for the Kenya trip, but you made the right choice in choosing the BMW over the Vega. My Vega was a much better car than it's reputation would make people suspect...up to a point. It had an aluminum block, so the first time it over-heated, the block warped and it leaked oil like crazy. On a completely unrelated note...one of our other friends had a '67 GT500 Shelby with 2 four-barrel carbs. He got into a bit of trouble with the law and had to sell his car to prove that he'd settled down. The dealership gave him $500 trade-in towards a new Vega. LOL

So . . . Would that be Good Karma . . . or Bad Carma?
(Or just plain, ol' regular everyday karma?)

'Scuse me for a minute while I dig up the Occupy Arrest Theme Song . . .
(Plus run over to Braum's for some value-laden essentials . . . =)

Just saw the same thing on a different board.

http://www.news9.com/story/15917745/occupy-okc-protester-found-dead-in-tent

If you gotta go...

Now talk about the costs added into products by government rules and regulations. I'm not making a statement that they are necessarily all bad or unnecessary. How many add-ons to the manufacture of automobiles are caused by government safety and pollution controls or government mandated gas milage requirements? How much is added to the cost of products due to product liability cases and insurance? How much is added to the cost of products due to labor agreements? You see, there is so much that has changed and added to our costs of living that have nothing to do with "big business" but rather "big government" and "big labor" and simple inflation caused by higher living standards.

How much? Less than the actual externalized costs that remain.

Are the Occupy OKC folks still in Kerr Park? If so this says volumes about OKC, in a positive manner. If this had happened in the late '60s - early '70s DA Curtis P.Harris (Harass) would have had the OKC-PD in there, clubs swinging, a la Mayor Daley's storm troopers, tout de suite.

Still there. Looks like they are moving their tents away from the building though.

It is too cold for them. I hope they go to a motel and then come back if they still feel like it.

Anyone watch SouthPark last night? They did a spoof on the 99% and the occupy movement. Pretty funny.

Are the Occupy OKC folks still in Kerr Park? If so this says volumes about OKC, in a positive manner. If this had happened in the late '60s - early '70s DA Curtis P.Harris (Harass) would have had the OKC-PD in there, clubs swinging, a la Mayor Daley's storm troopers, tout de suite.

Or Patience Latting. Remember how she cleared out the Jesus House, had her police officers get rough with nuns, sending homeless people out into the cold night where three froze to death? Yeah.. we've come a long way.

Not directly on point, but up the turnpike.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njjQ_nitC2Y&feature=share&noredirect=1

ACORN behind protests?


Officials with the revamped ACORN office in New York -- operating as New York Communities for Change -- have fired staff, shredded reams of documents and told workers to blame disgruntled ex-employees for leaking information in an effort to explain away a FoxNews.com report last week on the group’s involvement in Occupy Wall Street protests, according to sources.

NYCC also is installing surveillance cameras and recording devices at its Brooklyn offices, removing or packing away supplies bearing the name ACORN and handing out photos of Fox News staff with a stern warning not to talk to the media, the sources said.


“They’re doing serious damage control right now,” said an NYCC source.

NYCC Executive Director Jon Kest has been calling a series of emergency meetings to discuss last week’s report—and taking extreme measures to identify the sources in their office and to prevent further damage, a source within NYCC told FoxNews.com.

Two staffers were fired after NYCC officials suspected them as the source of the leaks, a source told FoxNews.com. “One was fired the day the story came out, the other was fired on Friday. (NYCC senior staff) told everyone that they were fired because they talked to you,” a source said.

NYCC spokesman Scott Levenson denied that anyone was fired for talking to the press.

FoxNews.com’s report identified NYCC as a key organizing force behind the Occupy Wall Street protests. Sources within the group also told FoxNews.com NYCC was hiring people to carry signs and join the protests. NYCC -- a nonprofit organization run almost entirely by former ACORN officials and employees --did not reply for comment prior to the publication of the initial article, but later posted a statement on its website dismissing the article and denying that it pays protesters.

A source said that immediately following publication of the FoxNews.com report staff were called into the Brooklyn office for meetings headed by NYCC’s organizing director, Jonathan Westin. Westin handed out copies of the article and went through it line-by-line, the source said.

Staffers were also given copies of photos of Senior Fox News Correspondent Eric Shawn and three other Fox News staff members, including this reporter.

“They reminded us that we can get fired, sued, arrested for talking to the press,” the source said. “Then they went through the article point-by-point and said that the allegation that we pay people to protest isn’t true.”

“‘That’s the story that we’re sticking to,’” Westin said, according to the source.

The source said staffers at the meeting contested Westin’s denial:

“It was pretty funny. Jonathan told staff they don’t pay for protesters, but the people in the meeting who work there objected and said, ‘Wait, you pay us to go to the protests every day?’ Then Jonathan said ‘No, but that’s your job,’ and staffers were like, ‘Yeah, our job is to protest,’ and Westin said, ‘No your job is to fight for economic and social justice. We just send you to protest.’

“Staff said, ‘Yes, you pay us to carry signs.’ Then Jonathan says, ‘That’s your job.’ It went on like that back and forth for a while.”

During the meetings, NYCC Deputy Director Greg Basta provided Westin with the copied photos of Fox News reporters to hand out to staff members, the source said. Basta told staffers they might be asked about the article when out in communities working on campaigns or when calling people by phone, the source said.

“They told us if people bring up the article, we’re supposed to say the source and all the stuff in there came from a disgruntled ex-employee who’s not working with us anymore.”

NYCC is also monitoring its staff’s behavior, cracking down on phone use and socialization. Officials have ordered all papers -- even scraps -- to be shredded every night, the source said.

“And all the supplies—everything around the office that said ‘ACORN’ -- is now all in storage until this blows over,” the source said. “People literally have to cover up the cameras on the back of their cellphones in the office.”

“Now there’s no texting in the office, no phone calls in the office. They tell us to take our phone calls out into the waiting room where there’s an intercom, and then they turn on the intercom to hear our conversations. They’re installing new cameras and speakers around the building so they can hear everything.

“It’s almost like working at Fort Knox.”

NYCC officials declined repeated requests to respond to specific questions about the organization’s response to last week’s story. The group on Wednesday instead sent this statement, attributed to NYCC board member Jean Sassine:

"New York Communities for Change participates in protests, direct action, social activism and campaigns that promote social and economic justice. We see FOX as the enemy to those efforts. For the record, this is consistent with Fox attacks on Van Jones, Shirley Sherrod, George Soros, Citizen Action, Planned Parenthood and all those who stand for social justice. Once again, FOX entertainment poses as FOX News. Once again, FOX makes a series of false, unsubstantiated claims and accusations which have no basis in fact. Once again, through a series of sources FOX structures a story which is nothing but a series of lies."

Westin did respond to some questions a day earlier, when approached by FoxNews.com at an NYCC event in Manhattan.

When asked if a staff member was fired because people thought he’d talked to the press, Westin said, “I have no idea.” When asked about handing out photos of Fox News employees, he said, “I have been? No, I don’t think I have been. That wasn’t me.”

Westin did acknowledge NYCC staff have met to discuss last week’s report. “People talked about it,” he said. “People are interested.”

He also deflected a question about the allegation that staffers were being told to blame the report on disgruntled staffers, telling this reporter to contact him later via email.

Responding to reports of pushback from staffers who said they were being paid to go to the protests, and reports NYCC had recently hired people as canvassers or organizers and then sent them to the protests, Westin replied repeatedly “We don’t pay people to protest.”

Westin later did not reply to two emails asking for follow-up.

MORE: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03/acorn-officials-scramble-firing-workers-and-shredding-documents-after-exposed/#ixzz1cfgqSKUi

I was in Rome a couple of saturdays back, they shut the city bus services down due to the demonstrations, so we walked from the Vatican to the Pantheon, stopped by some kind of government plaza where the riot police were out. Saw a few signs and protesters but no action. Went on to the Trevi and saw several helicopters floating around. Turns out, it got out of control with cars and vans on fire and a couple of buildings damaged...

Dang it, if we'd only been a few blocks over we could have thrown rocks......jk

Fox can tie ACORN to just about anything...Funny stuff

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/tea%20party%20vs%20occupy%20dangerous.jpg

I think, setting aside the gist of the political concerns, you're really comparing apples of oranges. Protesting is one thing. "Occupying" brings with it a whole different set of problems because it attempts to create a little society with all the nuts and bolts that go along with that. In the absence of leadership, infrastructure, a consensus of goals, respect for law, etc., you're going to have a disaster, in time. No matter what sort of good intentions or even valid concerns, this sort of squatting is going to bring out the criminal and dysfunctional element.

By its nature, the Occupiers attract the young, the naive, the angry, the clueless, etc. They are the least able to control the group. Covering up crime - as they've been documented in doing, repeatedly - puts the most vulnerable at risk. Young women who have been raised to believe the law protects them from even their own foolishness are being preyed on, as are the other young people who simply have no concept that there are real life predators out there just waiting for an opportunity to steal from them or otherwise take advantage.

The grownups other than the hardcore activist types, tend to head home or to a motel rather than sleep out in the open in all weather. In doing that, they don't distract from their political message by engaging in crime, distruction of property, negative impacting of small businesses just trying to make a living, encouraging lawlessness and the like. The occupiers' message in a lot of places - whatever it is - has been lost due to the negativity associated with how this has been handled. And I still don't know what they want other than to complain about life, in general. By treating legitimate complaints and frivolous ones as all the same, they've turned off a lot of people. I won't say they've given democracy a bad name but they HAVE been an excellent demonstration of why pure democracy doesn't work. Makes me glad we have a republic, with all its warts.

The Tea partyers protested. This group isn't protesting - it is occupying. IMO, you can't really compare the two. Still, I suspect a daytime protest between the two groups would have the tea partiers come out way ahead. There is just too much anger, lack of respect for others and lack of consensus in the OWS group.

Occupy OKC memorial set for deceased man

(with video)

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-13474-occupy-okc-memorial-set-for-deceased-man.html

Saturday? With all the stuff going on with the skybridge coming down? Maybe Sunday would be better.

You know, if they want to endear themselves to Oklahomans they might think about removing the signs from the air force monument. Just saying.

You know, if they want to endear themselves to Oklahomans they might think about removing the signs from the air force monument. Just saying.

That's worse than coming into my house and taking a dump on my bed.

Fox can tie ACORN to just about anything...Funny stuff

Just like MSNBC ties the Tea party to just about anything----Funny stuff.

Protesting is one thing but most of these people seem to have become "urban campers" and in most parks there is no overnight camping allowed. Here in Denver they ran them out of the park between the state capitol and city hall yesterday. I went by them every day heading home from work.

Denver Post - 17 arrested as Occupy Denver protesters' gear cleared from park (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19325299)

Live coverage at http://www.kgw.com/live-stream and http://www.kgw.com/home/related/Live-Stream-Occupy-Portland-132965728.html As the police move in on the Protestors in Portland Oregon.

we have several threads about national movements, it would be good to keep this thread a little more on the local version

If it were a legitimate protest I wouldn't have a problem with and could even support, but most of the "protesters" have not a clue what they are protesting about. Several News organizations have followed these groups and found that many of the so called protesters are actually unemployed locals,r or in many cases homeless people that were offered things (food, clothing, etc:) in exchange for their service.

If it were a legitimate protest I wouldn't have a problem with and could even support, but most of the "protesters" have not a clue what they are protesting about. Several News organizations have followed these groups and found that many of the so called protesters are actually unemployed locals,r or in many cases homeless people that were offered things (food, clothing, etc:) in exchange for their service.


http://www.geke.us/ProtestSign.001.jpg

Biggest issue I have with the protest as a whole. It's very unorganized about what it's GOALS are. Each segment seems to have it's OWN agenda. I watch alot of the protest and moments over the weekend as they were taken out in each town. GOALS and what they wanted to do was the biggest issue. I say if your protesting, should have a PRETTY good idea what your protesting about before JOINING UP!! :)

_4NkkAQllfo

I was very happy to see the signs off the monument today. :)

On another note, the noise level coming from building is getting higher. I'm surprised they aren't all sitting around with ear plugs in.

10 Occupy OKC Members Arrested In Del City Walmart
Protestors: Police Used Excessive Force

http://www.koco.com/news/29858554/detail.html

Any real evidence or is this a case of "any" force is excessive force as claimed by the protestors? Someone give someone a bruise?

Any real evidence or is this a case of "any" force is excessive force as claimed by the protestors? Someone give someone a bruise?

I wasn't there, but the blurb on the website notes

chanting began
chanters asked to stop and depart
chanters walk toward exit
cops run at protestors and tackle and arrest them

If they had stopped and were leaving, the take down and arrest seems a bit overkill. But what is there is more blurb than in depth article, so perhaps there could be more to it than what is shown on the site.

either way, there is apparently a video of it (isn't there nearly always these days)

Start believing it when the video comes out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CA9cQkWyqs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dktb0EsLM8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ROsEO1BMQ

Yeah, I saw this video. The protesters WERE on there way out, however, as they are leaving there are several police officers around them not really doing anything aggressive towards them. At some point the guy in the red and black plad shirt is up a couple of aisles from the guy with the camera and you can hear the guy with the camera say the name "Shane" with an inflection in his voice that almost sounds like he was asking his friend to quit or to not say something. Right about then the guy in the plad shirt is told to get on the ground, and it appears as though he may have ran. He may have said something he shouldn't have, or maybe the officers THOUGHT he said something he shouldn't have. Whatever the case may be, it looked to me like he MAY have ran when the cops came up behind him and told him to get on the ground, and I certainly didn't see him get "tackled."

complaining about police excess happens anytime there is some sort of confrontation with them here in Denver. Its a trained reaction they're supposed to give when the media interviews them. In fairness, there have been excesses, but take it with a grain of salt until confirmed by video or eyewitnesses that are disinterested.

If you trespass, cause a disturbance, you must be willing to suffer the consequences!

If you want to protest, do it legally, get a permit (if required), abide by City and/or State guidelines.

Yes. The cops are supposed to be judge, jury, executioner and issue punishment as they see fit.

Bet they taught WalMart a lesson...Look for them raise all employees pay significantly in the next few months

If you trespass, cause a disturbance, you must be willing to suffer the consequences!

If you want to protest, do it legally, get a permit (if required), abide by City and/or State guidelines.

Too bad the city doesn't even play by those rules and there are no consequences for them when they ignore the law. I protested legally in front of the court house and they literally shut the court house down over it. They went so far as to have officers go around collecting the material I was handing out and place it in evidence bags. Even took the suckers out of people's mouths that were attached to my literature. Cost thousands to send everyone home - only to have a judge rule there was nothing improper on my part.

WalMart handled it correctly, they called police and simply shrugged it off. There is no need to take these peaceful protests personally. The security guy I spoke to at the Del City WalMart said they didn't even want anyone charged with trespassing. But, it also looks like the individual tackled was doing more than simply leaving the store as ordered. I saw several cops doing there job and keeping calm and allowing the protesters to leave. I'm of the opinion the protester tackled most likely had it coming.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv8cb6skME1qbu6fno1_500.jpg

Start believing it when the video comes out

Its not very likely that you'll ever see that video unless someone manages to smuggle it out. But if you did it wouldn't reveal what was said by who. I doubt it would tell us much about whether the force was reasonable. I think they probably pushed it too far and were asking for it when they joined what was already a hectic situation and decided to add to it. It was not a well thought-out plan.

Just my opinion.. I think this is ridiculous. A group of kids getting together and as I feel, actually causing a mockery of the REAL occupy Wall Street. While I don't completely agree with all of this, and yes I believe people have the right to peaceful protest, its dumb. I actually went down one night to see what was really going on, I asked a few people hanging around and only one guy could actually tell me why he was there. Everyone else said their friends were doing it so they joined in. It's one thing to protest and know WHY you're protesting, but it's another to just jump in because everyone else is. The sad part is this is my generation, speaking on my behalf, and knowingly being uneducated in the cause... pitiful at the least. Again, my opinion, i'm entitled to it.

they were ot leaving the store when asked to. just departing the electronics section and going towards the food section.

Apparently their deadline to leave the park has come and gone. There is a meeting setup for this morning around 8:30am to meet with police. Looks like they may have to be removed permanently.

There have probably been several groups in the past, but I remember one particular group that camped out at the State Capitol with their tents etc. for quite awhile. Was many years ago, anyone remember who they were? They were to the East of then main south steps in the grass for what seemed like months.

Just my opinion.. I think this is ridiculous. A group of kids getting together and as I feel, actually causing a mockery of the REAL occupy Wall Street. While I don't completely agree with all of this, and yes I believe people have the right to peaceful protest, its dumb. I actually went down one night to see what was really going on, I asked a few people hanging around and only one guy could actually tell me why he was there. Everyone else said their friends were doing it so they joined in. It's one thing to protest and know WHY you're protesting, but it's another to just jump in because everyone else is. The sad part is this is my generation, speaking on my behalf, and knowingly being uneducated in the cause... pitiful at the least. Again, my opinion, i'm entitled to it.

Are you sure that they don't know what they're protesting? I mean, it's pretty clear--that society's elites are exercising a disproportionate share of political clout to the detriment of 99% of us. That's something which ought to piss you off and does justify protest.

The Right Wing establishment has an excellent media machine and have droned on about these folks being dangerous, vagrants, criminal activity, clueless, a threat to health and safety, etc. I guess if you hear that enough, eventually it becomes true?

What's really scary here is the bloodlust shown by many Americans to see these protests violently brought to an end. We'd all get a bunch of protesters in Egypt condemning corrupt bureaucrats in Tahrir Square, but whit it happens close to home and we don't necessarily walk in lock step with the protesters' political biases, we're delighted to see the police show up with pepper spray and riot gear to shut down peaceful protests.

Cities shutting these protests down greatly illustrates how our First Amendment is really in tatters. A swarm of technicalities and loopholes have dealt it what is essentially a death by papercuts. We shouldn't be outraged about these protesters, we should be outraged at our municipal leaders not standing up for the Constitution they're sworn to defend.

Midtowner, I would not have said if I had not gone down there myself. It's one thing to speak your own voice than it is to speak anothers. To compare these protest to that of egypts or libyas i believe is insulting. Everyone has their first amendment rights but you also have to follow state and local laws as well. You have the right to peacefully assemble and you have the right to say what ever you want without fear of backlash. But you also have to be respectful and mindful of others around you. The display at walmart was a pointless mockery and the guy leading it was a douche bag. I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone seriously, especially this guy or anyone else who can just quote historical figures out of context and spout out ignorance with every chant.

Don't get me wrong, I have my own issues with the way our government is ran, but there are actual solutions that can actually get you somewhere. In our fast paced society where we want everything, right now, patience has been lost. And no, I don't mean sitting back and waiting, i'm talking about actively pursuing change by going about it the proper way. If you expect to be taken seriously and be heard, you can't go running around like a jackass, nothing positive comes of it and you could get hurt.

For instance, I support the Free Press Organization (FreePress.net), both in letter writing to our congressman and senators and financially to the cause. The recent success was the shutdown of a bill that would have put your internet in the control of american communication providers and would have limited our access to the internet. There is a current lawsuit now to continue the push to not only save the free and open access to the internet by standard forms but also for mobile users as well.

If this group really wanted to do something, find a person for office, vote for that person, get them in, have them represent you. If you feel your government isn't representing you, vote them out of office, make it known you don't like this person and why. Change the government in a long lasting way and be heard. Sure it takes time, but its quality. Patience really is a virtue and these guys are mindless idiots, and that is MY opinion.

I will not argue this point anymore here. I have stated my opinion and it is just that.

Are you sure that they don't know what they're protesting? I mean, it's pretty clear--that society's elites are exercising a disproportionate share of political clout to the detriment of 99% of us. That's something which ought to piss you off and does justify protest.

The Right Wing establishment has an excellent media machine and have droned on about these folks being dangerous, vagrants, criminal activity, clueless, a threat to health and safety, etc. I guess if you hear that enough, eventually it becomes true?

What's really scary here is the bloodlust shown by many Americans to see these protests violently brought to an end. We'd all get a bunch of protesters in Egypt condemning corrupt bureaucrats in Tahrir Square, but whit it happens close to home and we don't necessarily walk in lock step with the protesters' political biases, we're delighted to see the police show up with pepper spray and riot gear to shut down peaceful protests.

Cities shutting these protests down greatly illustrates how our First Amendment is really in tatters. A swarm of technicalities and loopholes have dealt it what is essentially a death by papercuts. We shouldn't be outraged about these protesters, we should be outraged at our municipal leaders not standing up for the Constitution they're sworn to defend.

It would be really something if the first amendment had the same advocates as the second. If governmental agencies can dictate at what times and where the first amendment is allowed to be practiced, why are there not similar restictions on when you are allowed to exercise your second amendment rights?

Facism comes waving a flag again.

It would be really something if the first amendment had the same advocates as the second. If governmental agencies can dictate at what times and where the first amendment is allowed to be practiced, why are there not similar restrictions on when you are allowed to exercise your second amendment rights?

Fascism comes waving a flag again.So you don't mind if my friends and I set up tents on your front lawn and protest against everything you stand for?

I'm with mmonroe on this one. I too stopped for a bit at Kerr park and sat down and talked to three or four people. I wanted to take some pics, but they were adamantly against it and i wasn't in a particularly feisty mood. I'm all for protest, as long as the protest has foundation - even if I don't agree with it. Nobody I talked to could communicate what they were protesting other than what they perceived as 'those damn rich people' and how they couldn't get ahead in this world.

Possibly the protests in other areas are more focused and more thought out, but if the people I spoke to were indicative of the protests in general then I personally think its a sham.

I agree with the mayor (whom I personally dislike), the city cannot allow these public spaces to be permanently occupied by what appears to be a bunch of vagrants hiding under the umbrella of their right to protest.

New deadline is Thursday, if still there, I'm all for breaking out the pepper spray and handcuffs. Let them occupy the county jail for a few hours.

Freedom of speech and freedom of protest does not = camping in public spaces. You can protest without camping and you can camp without protesting. No one is silencing the protest by making them take down the tents and not inhabit the park after regular hours. Just show up the next morning with your signs and protest to your little hearts content. But these guys might have to find another place to play because this area is about to be a demolishion zone. I've watched a lot of other buildings in the area go down and it is a messy, noisy and dangerous to be around business.

I've about reached the point of thinking they can just squat there all winter, so long as they clear out every couple of days so the place can be cleaned. If they want to live that miserably, I say go for it. They come across as idiots but that is their choice.