...While the materials are not the point at hand, I can't help but cringe when looking at that building's aesthetic when considering the historic structures surrounding it. Looks completely out of place, while our new PD really considers and blends surrounding architectural styles into its design. Which I appreciate.

I agree completely; I think the overall design/style/quality of the new OCPD HQ is a home run.

would have helped tremendously if any of the following would have been done:

1) a central tower of some sort of height AND

2) change the orientation so that it opens up to Main Street (instead of closing off to it). You could still have PD entrance on Couch (or whatever street that is) but have the PUBLIC GRAND ENTRANCE open up to Main

3-4) a taller building, say 5-6 floors, with material design going from traditional closer to the Music Hall then to Modern at the west end - this would have been ideal for showing OKC moving into the 21 century while also likely minimizing cost of material (since modern is glass facade, likely cheaper than all brick/stone). A taller building feels more like a big city, but honestly that is a personal opinion and not necessarily fact.

I could go on, but for the sake of its singular purpose I will end it there. While this HQ turned out to not be too bad, it could easily have EASILY been a home run with even some of my ideas (or more) and really served as an anchor for the WestTown/Arts District - Film Row (or whatever name they're calling that hood now) area.

I think we should have our Government buildings to be focal points for the city - this is a very quick, easy way to beautify the city while also adding in functionality - not everything SHOULD look like it was built on a shoe-string budget (even if it was).

I knew it would look better once the windows were in. :tongue:

Is anyone else getting tired of 'safety' being the go-to scapegoat to justify poor site plans? The damage done to society after years and years of bad design are far more dangerous than random terrorism. At the risk of being put on a watch list, that additional 10' of open space wouldn't prevent squat.

Is anyone else getting tired of 'safety' being the go-to scapegoat to justify poor site plans? The damage done to society after years and years of bad design are far more dangerous than random terrorism. At the risk of being put on a watch list, that additional 10' of open space wouldn't prevent squat.

I've thought this as well. Yes, we've had our disastrous act of random terrorism in OKC, but it can't be used as an excuse forever. In that case, the terrorists win.

From personal experience I always thought that the Main Cop Shop should not look appealing but more like a place you never want to be in. JMO.

The damage done to society after years and years of bad design are far more dangerous than random terrorism.

Seriously. Now you think this design is worse than deadly terrorism? Tell that to survivors and their families. Glad you have your priorities announced. Wow.

Seriously. Now you think this design is worse than deadly terrorism? Tell that to survivors and their families. Glad you have your priorities announced. Wow.

Nice Rover - way not to see the bigger picture, but I stand by my comment - that extra 10' won't stop anything.

We can see the picture all right.

Yeah, what a ridiculous statement. Bad urban design is worse than terrorism now. I think it might be time for you to take a break for a while JTF.

Safety should be the #1 focus in EVERYTHING we do. Especially for something that is likely to be a major target for attacks.

Yeah, what a ridiculous statement. Bad urban design is worse than terrorism now. I think it might be time for you to take a break for a while JTF.

Safety should be the #1 focus in EVERYTHING we do. Especially for something that is likely to be a major target for attacks.

It is one thing to design for common attempts like trying to escape from a cell, major attacks are still extremely rare and in most situations should not be the #1 focus.

Yeah, what a ridiculous statement. Bad urban design is worse than terrorism now. I think it might be time for you to take a break for a while JTF.

Safety should be the #1 focus in EVERYTHING we do. Especially for something that is likely to be a major target for attacks.

No, JTF is right. This is ridiculous.

The extra 10' back from the street does not enhance safety.
The lack of a public entrance along Main does not enhance safety.
There is no information to indicate that this police station is likely to be the target for a terrorist attack.


We have to have a sense of scale and proportionality. That there may be a 0.0001% chance of a terrorist attack at some random point in the future does not justify turning every building into a bunker -- particularly a bunker that doesn't really offer much in the way of increased protection. "Safety" in this sense is an excuse for unwelcoming design, and it doesn't actually make the building safer.

From personal experience I always thought that the Main Cop Shop should not look appealing but more like a place you never want to be in. JMO.

I think the police station should be a place that people feel perfectly fine entering. Shouldn't we as citizens feel comfortable in dealing with the police?

First of all, we are talking about one building here not every building. This is a government police station, which is much more likely to come under attack then almost any other establishment.

Second of all, You guys have NO idea the logic the engineers used when designing this building. They probably only want to have 1 entrance. If they built up to the street wall & placed the entrance on main, then car access would be extremely limited & that is very important for police business. They could have put an entrance on main, but then it wouldn't have been able to be built to the street wall & you guys would've complained about that. Having 2 entrances would have decreased security by 2x so that wasn't an option.

Stop trying to act like this is housing, retail or a restaurant. This is a police headquarters so stop trying to act like new urban-ism principles can be applied broadly to every situation. I remember people complaining about the new bricktown firehouse not being right up against the street which would have made the firetruck exiting safely almost impossible. You guys need a reality check that "good urbansim" shouldn't be the #1 design factor in EVERY situation. 99% of the time, yes its very important, but we don't live in a cookie cutter world.

*deleted*

WAY too personal. ~ Pete

First of all, we are talking about one building here not every building. This is a government police station, which is much more likely to come under attack then almost any other establishment.

Do you have any statistics on this, at all? When was the last time a police station was attacked in the United States?


Second of all, You guys have NO idea the logic the engineers used when designing this building. They probably only want to have 1 entrance. If they built up to the street wall & placed the entrance on main, then car access would be extremely limited & that is very important for police business. They could have put an entrance on main, but then it wouldn't have been able to be built to the street wall & you guys would've complained about that. Having 2 entrances would have decreased security by 2x so that wasn't an option.

They could have had a grand public entrance on Main as well as a private entrance with access to a police parking area.


Stop trying to act like this is housing, retail or a restaurant. This is a police headquarters so stop trying to act like new urban-ism principles can be applied broadly to every situation. I remember people complaining about the new bricktown firehouse not being right up against the street which would have made the firetruck exiting safely almost impossible. You guys need a reality check that "good urbansim" shouldn't be the #1 design factor in EVERY situation. 99% of the time, yes its very important, but we don't live in a cookie cutter world.

I kind of like the way it looks, but how do the decisions they made make it any safer?

Do you have any statistics on this, at all? When was the last time a police station was attacked in the United States?


Last November
Austin gunman dead after downtown shooting rampage (http://kxan.com/2014/11/28/austin-police-shut-down-city-streets-for-active-shooter-investigation/)

Police, in general, have come under more attack recently.

Its just the nature of it being a government building, and being a police station that makes it more prone to attacks. 2 things that people can hold very ill will towards.

Not that we have the budget to incorporate all of the measures, but the new One World Trade Center shows how security and street interaction are not mutually exclusive.

Our police station in Seattle fronts the corner of a major block in downtown seattle - huge curb appeal and interaction with the street without even having anything to interact to. and right next to the Municipal Court building (also a modern, sleek building) and immediately across the street from city hall (also a modern building) and the Seattle Municipal Tower. Everything Seattle govt you need is more or less at 5th Avenue and Cherry Street.

One more thought - I'd think personal common sense would lend a person to not want to go to the Police HQ, not a bad design. On the flip side, wouldn't it be nice if the Police HQ was inviting so the community could liaise with the police and even have functions in their building. ...

Our police station in Seattle fronts the corner of a major block in downtown seattle - huge curb appeal and interaction with the street without even having anything to interact to. and right next to the Municipal Court building (also a modern, sleek building) and immediately across the street from city hall (also a modern building) and the Seattle Municipal Tower. Everything Seattle govt you need is more or less at 5th Avenue and Cherry Street.

One more thought - I'd think personal common sense would lend a person to not want to go to the Police HQ, not a bad design. On the flip side, wouldn't it be nice if the Police HQ was inviting so the community could liaise with the police and even have functions in their building. ...

This exactly. Gov't & Municipal buildings should be inviting to the public in general. It helps make them more accessible to the general public and forces them to be active members of their surrounding areas. I would argue this is doubly important for the city police force, especially at a time where police distrust feels higher than normal. If that was achieved with the new HQ, I could only see it as a tremendous positive for the surrounding business district and future residents.

With regards to the general sentiment of focusing too much on safety & security at the expense to other elements, a parallel can be seen looking at US embassies (places with a much greater need for security than local buildings IMO). The outward appearance of a building and its interactivity with its surrounding community can affect people's perceptions of the people who house them and the agencies behind them—regardless if that's fair or not. Fortress America: How the U.S. Designs its Embassies - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/politics/2012/09/fortress-america-how-us-designs-embassies/3289/)

Where are those people who said police headquarters rarely come under attack? Austin & Dallas in way less than a year.

https://news.yahoo.com/gunshots-fired-near-dallas-police-headquarters-071556687.html

L
Where are those people who said police headquarters rarely come under attack? Austin & Dallas in way less than a year.

https://news.yahoo.com/gunshots-fired-near-dallas-police-headquarters-071556687.html

Explain how setting the building back 10' from the street would have made a difference in either case. These setbacks and ballasters are so 1990's. That was back when terrorist didn't want to die in the blast. Now they just strap the bomb to themselves, step between the ballasters, and walk in the front door.

Thanks to jeep for the photo:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police063015.jpg

With this added photo, I am closer to recanting my previously stated opinion on the design. I also was chatting with someone who was provided a tour of the facility, I mentioned the appearance of the building and he mentioned that as he was told, each side of the structure was designed to compliment the buildings it faced. So if one side was facing a building with white brick, the architect attempted to tie into that for that side of the building. Made more sense to me than looking at it with no knowledge of the design process.

L

Explain how setting the building back 10' from the street would have made a difference in either case. These setbacks and ballasters are so 1990's. That was back when terrorist didn't want to die in the blast. Now they just strap the bomb to themselves, step between the ballasters, and walk in the front door.

You are right. Not one thing done at the new OKC headquarters would have changed either one of those. It comes down to security theater. I like the building quite a lot now. Every time I drive by, it looks a little better to me. It looks so different in person and even looks like a different building from different directions. It's a lot more interesting than I first thought.

With this added photo, I am closer to recanting my previously stated opinion on the design. I also was chatting with someone who was provided a tour of the facility, I mentioned the appearance of the building and he mentioned that as he was told, each side of the structure was designed to compliment the buildings it faced. So if one side was facing a building with white brick, the architect attempted to tie into that for that side of the building. Made more sense to me than looking at it with no knowledge of the design process.

The problem is that the building across the street that it is 'architecturally tied' to is going to be torn down and be replaced with a surface parking lot.

Thanks to jeep for the photo:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police063015.jpg

It does look better than I had previously thought, I actually like the massing/size more than I thought. My only wish (well two) are not necessarily architectural related; but that

1) I wish the building was closer to the street and had a grand entrance (of sorts) at the intersection
2) Taller building to emphasize the city's status. I know this is rather vain but I think OKC low balls far too many projects, I wish we would build BIG like Chicago; adding another floor or two (perhaps for civic interaction/classes purposes) wouldn't have likely cost too much more and would have added to the building's presence and use IMO).

I honestly, really like the SPD HQ in downtown Seattle. It speaks volumes to me: modern, accessible, big city, and civic minded - just like the city it serves. I suppose OKC's new Police HQ does signify OKC in a way: reserved, conservative, guarded, isolated, but I wish we could change this and become more open.

What seems like it might serve as the "grand entrance" is in the back from the perspective of this photo, facing what will eventually be the parking lot.

Pretty sure they are more interested in adding officers than floors. We def need them.

how about both, officers and more floors to manage them and engage with the community.

Anyway, it was just a preference of mine. But this is not as bad as I first thought.

how about both, officers and more floors to manage them and engage with the community. OKC could start adding officers by expanding their Police Academy to more than just one class per year; that'd be a start.

Anyway, it was just a preference of mine. But this is not as bad as I first thought.

I suppose OKC's new Police HQ does signify OKC in a way: reserved, conservative, guarded, isolated, but I wish we could change this and become more open.

I am afraid you are right about that. I have never seen a populace so committed to the discount mentality. Civic building are supposed to reflect the collective civic pride of the populace. Earlier generations gave us the Civic Center, the Federal Court House, City Hall, the County Court House, and the original Police Headquarters. This generation gave us this.

They are really working hard to finish out this project. Note the large array of granite benches in front. There will also be a large public art display in the atrium/entrance.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police092415a.jpg

A couple of better photos. They just took the construction fences down.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police092615a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police092615b.jpg

Nothing against the granite benches, but I suspect, if those are supposed to be benches for seating, it's not going to be a place where the public likes to hang out on benches.

Won't be a bad spot once they plant trees.

Won't be a bad spot once they plant trees.

It will look nice but I still doubt it's a place people will want to hang out on a bench.

I doubt a bunch of people want to just "hang out" at the police headquarters anyway.:D

I'm betting those benches are dual use; sitting and protection against any vehicles ramming the front of the building.

I doubt a bunch of people want to just "hang out" at the police headquarters anyway.:D

Actually, a bunch of people do because they are waiting on people or have business within. If you ever go by the existing facility you'll see lots of people milling about outside.

And yes, the benches do double-duty as protection from vehicles.

Actually, a bunch of people do because they are waiting on people or have business within. If you ever go by the existing facility you'll see lots of people milling about outside.

And yes, the benches do double-duty as protection from vehicles.

You're right, although I sense Rovers post was mostly just sarcasm.
I had some business to conduct with an accident I was involved in, it took them about 30 minutes to process my request (copies of documents) and the weather was nice so I waited outside. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Actually, a bunch of people do because they are waiting on people or have business within. If you ever go by the existing facility you'll see lots of people milling about outside.

And yes, the benches do double-duty as protection from vehicles.

Yes, I know. Humor doesn't work on boards. Even with smiley faces, I guess. Will be more serious next time.

I think it's a nice execution of the requisite security landscapes needed for a police HQ.

They are almost finished here; noticed they had started to move in some furniture.

Also, they have floodlights lighting the building at night and it looks really sharp. I'll try and get a photo of that.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police102715a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police102715b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police102715c.jpg

Here is a nighttime photo... Looks pretty slick in person:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police102915.jpg

City Leaders Host Ribbon Cutting At New Police HQ - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/30412367/city-leaders-host-ribbon-cutting-at-new-police-hq)

The Oklahoman's video of the opening along with comments by Mick Cornett.

OKC Central blog player (http://bcove.me/3vce299r)

Press release for the City of OKC:


New OKC Police Headquarters Building opens downtown

Mayor Mick Cornett, Police Chief Bill Citty and other Oklahoma City officials cut the ribbon, formally opening the Police Department’s new headquarters on Monday.

“We have an expertly trained, highly respected police force, so there was strong support for the new headquarters,” Mayor Mick Cornett said. “The building’s design and construction will serve residents 24 hours a day, 365 days a year for decades to come.”

The three-story, 88,625-square-foot building replaces the aging former headquarters, which was built in 1965 and recently plagued by rising maintenance problems and costs. The new headquarters is 11 percent larger than the old building across the street, and its efficient design maximizes the use of space and allows for expansion and re-configuration over the coming decades.

“There are a lot of people to thank for the new Police Headquarters that will serve Oklahoma City for many years, but ultimately it’s the citizens who funded the project because they trust our City Manager, Mayor and City Councilpersons with their dollars, Police Chief Bill Citty said.

“I am proud to say the new facility has exceeded our expectations thanks to ADG architects, Wynn construction and the City’s Public Works staff. They have created a public safety facility the City, police personnel and citizens can be proud of.”

Residents entering the headquarters on the first floor will be greeted by the information desk and records units, helping them access police services immediately and easily. The second floor features the Investigations Bureau, and the new, open-plan design fosters collaborative police work. The police chief’s office and the Criminal Intelligence Unit are on the third floor.

The building’s exterior design complements other buildings in the historic heart of the city, including the Civic Center Music Hall, City Hall and Oklahoma County Courthouse. It will also incorporate a memorial plaza to fallen officers.

Exterior and interior artwork will soon complete the look of the Headquarters, funded by OKC’s 1% for Art program. Public art will grace the memorial plaza on the exterior and will take the form of glass murals inside.

The sleek and modern design also incorporates practical elements inside and out, from security features limiting unauthorized access to the flexible design plan and energy efficiency.

The $27.1 million headquarters was funded by the 2007 general obligation bond issue, the MAPS 3 use tax and the public safety sales tax. Phase two of the project is the 65,000-square-foot Municipal Court building under construction one block to the north. The project architect was ADG, and the general contractor was Wynn Construction.

This project looks like it is fully finished; installed the outdoor public art. Everything turned out very nice.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police121315a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police121315b.jpg

Foggy brain moment. When the new court complex is built on the former parking lot north of it, does the existing court complex get razed and parking goes in, or will there be something else constructed in the space?

Foggy brain moment. When the new court complex is built on the former parking lot north of it, does the existing court complex get razed and parking goes in, or will there be something else constructed in the space?

Razed and replaced with parking to serve the two new structures.

I have a police officer friend that says they've been using the old HQ for active shooter training and they really love having that option there and so they might not be demoing so soon...

Demolition has begun on the old police station / court house building.

Will be surface parking.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police081821a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police081821b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/police081821ca.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/policeparking2.jpg

Not sure why we can’t save the building, it looks much cooler than new buildings that replace it.

Not sure why we can’t save the building, it looks much cooler than new buildings that replace it.

At least it’ll be landscaped.

Well parking is a huge step up from the new grow house I thought it would become.

Well parking is a huge step up from the new grow house I thought it would become.

Letting this building rot would be a huge step up from a surface parking lot.

The irony is that there was already a bunch of parking on-site that was being used; a good deal of it was covered.

^^^ I guess because the policemen don’t like to walk anywhere further than ten feet?