http://newsok.com/brokers-say-era-of-speculative-sales-in-bricktown-is-over-but-memory-hurts-areas-development/article/3608773?custom_click=lead_story_title

Hopefully all the property squatters will realize that their asking prices are unrealistic.

While we are on the topic of Bricktown...

I have always wondered about this for years...

Bricktown a named district in OKC or an actual town on its own?

It's a town on it's own. The mayor is the bouncer at Rok Bar and city hall is Tapwerks...






J/k, Thunder. It's a district.

Just noticed the date is from 2003... oh well.

There has been some progress, such as ACM @ UCO taking the upper floors (and buying) the one large building.

I'm hoping that once the Deep Deuce projects are relatively complete and full that it will spur some of the owners to rework the upper floors of many of those buildings into offices and living units.

I'm excited about development of the Sherman Iron Works too. I just wonder why there was no fanfare about the development. Is there concern that this is another planned development that won't ever happen? Main Street would be a great place for a string of retail and the Sherman Iron Works is a great building.

Here's a Google Street View link for those who might not know where it is. (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.467573,-97.510609&spn=0.003775,0.005842&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=35.467482,-97.510631&panoid=PEPqcqbNHo5_Gm_u1SWLBA&cbp=12,250.52,,0,-2.07)

I'm excited about development of the Sherman Iron Works too. I just wonder why there was no fanfare about the development. Is there concern that this is another planned development that won't ever happen? Main Street would be a great place for a string of retail and the Sherman Iron Works is a great building.

I think this announcement of the "The Factory" is old news, if you read the caption under to picture its starts by stating Oklahoma City August, 13, 2003. Someone please clarify, again, its hard to get actual facts straight is certain articles...

Check this out... some old photos of Bricktown (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallsroad/page133/). I don't remember the Rock Island Freight Station. I literally don't have any memory of it from when these pictures were taken. I didn't have any interest in such things then. There's also a lot of photos of the Sherman Iron Works building.

I think this announcement of the "The Factory" is old news, if you read the caption under to picture its starts by stating Oklahoma City August, 13, 2003. Someone please clarify, again, its hard to get actual facts straight is certain articles...

The Factory died a long time ago. This is old old old news.

I think this announcement of the "The Factory" is old news, if you read the caption under to picture its starts by stating Oklahoma City August, 13, 2003. Someone please clarify, again, its hard to get actual facts straight is certain articles...

Ah, didn't notice the date on that caption. So it IS another one of the plans that never came to fruition. That's sad, because it's a great building. Everytime I walk by I think about what a shame it is that it hasn't been developed.

Check this out... some old photos of Bricktown (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallsroad/page133/). I don't remember the Rock Island Freight Station. I literally don't have any memory of it from when these pictures were taken. I didn't have any interest in such things then. There's also a lot of photos of the Sherman Iron Works building.

If I remember correctly, that was where the current police station is on Main between Walnut and Stills.

What you're seeing is a very old and incorrect cutline on the Sherman Iron Works photos and is the result of cutting too many people and thinking a damn computer can take up the slack. Notice in print the cutline is fine. But the computers think they're smarter than the humans, and somehow it picked up the original cutline for this archive photo (fresh photos are not taken in such instances because ...)
Forgive me for ranting.... but geez..... asking for a fix now.

Long long overdue article but good. Hope this issue gets more media attention or nothing will change

Remember about 6 months ago when one of our OKCTalk family members mentioned the impending demise of Bricktown as competitor neighborhoods start getting established, and every one ripped him a new one. Bricktown has maybe 12 months left to get their act together or what you see in Bricktown now is all you will ever see in Bricktown. And by ‘get their act together’ I mean they better find a way to introduce residential, destination retail, and start rethinking Lower Bricktown (although L.B. might already be too messed up to save).

Deep Deuce is about one or two projects away from providing enough amenities that people living there won't have much reason to leave Deep Deuce, and if they do venture out, it will be to AA and Midtown. Being the only fish in the pond is great until 3 more fish show up.

Check this out... some old photos of Bricktown (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallsroad/page133/). I don't remember the Rock Island Freight Station. I literally don't have any memory of it from when these pictures were taken. I didn't have any interest in such things then. There's also a lot of photos of the Sherman Iron Works building.
Great pics...thanks for sharing...LOVE buildings with "character' and that Blue Door pic is swimming in it!

Remember about 6 months ago when one of our OKCTalk family members mentioned the impending demise of Bricktown as competitor neighborhoods start getting established, and every one ripped him a new one. Bricktown has maybe 12 months left to get their act together or what you see in Bricktown now is all you will ever see in Bricktown. And by ‘get their act together’ I mean they better find a way to introduce residential, destination retail, and start rethinking Lower Bricktown (although L.B. might already be too messed up to save).

Deep Deuce is about one or two projects away from providing enough amenities that people living there won't have much reason to leave Deep Deuce, and if they do venture out, it will be to AA and Midtown. Being the only fish in the pond is great until 3 more fish show up.

Here here, this site definitely has favoritism depending on the poster. Bricktown appears to be willingly choosing the path of West End, and to no surprise. OKC rarely choses to learn from history

Remember about 6 months ago when one of our OKCTalk family members mentioned the impending demise of Bricktown as competitor neighborhoods start getting established, and every one ripped him a new one. Bricktown has maybe 12 months left to get their act together or what you see in Bricktown now is all you will ever see in Bricktown. And by ‘get their act together’ I mean they better find a way to introduce residential, destination retail, and start rethinking Lower Bricktown (although L.B. might already be too messed up to save).

Deep Deuce is about one or two projects away from providing enough amenities that people living there won't have much reason to leave Deep Deuce, and if they do venture out, it will be to AA and Midtown. Being the only fish in the pond is great until 3 more fish show up.

I am kinda on the fence with this one. I could easily see either side, honestly. You might not be wrong, but I hope you are. None of us want to see this happen to Bricktown. I also hate to accuse leadership of being piss poor. But there has to be something you can do about this squatting. I haven't even seen them try.

We're going to have to wait and see what Bricktown leadership really means depending on how they handle this House of Bedlam joke of a proposal. We've all been expecting leadership to come from the Bricktown Association, but that's nuts, it's just a neighborhood association. Leadership must come from the city and from the Bricktown Urban Design Commission. Avis chairs it, and she also owns the Rock Island Plow Building. That group can also decide what happens with the grassy knoll. The likelihood that a worthy development goes there if they deny the current proposal is obviously infinitely higher than if they approve the current proposal...

I don't think that Bricktown will ever lose its appeal to people from small town Oklahoma and the suburbs simply because it's mostly all they know and has been their main experience with urban design in Oklahoma. I think Bricktown will continue to thrive as a purely entertainment district, but might not ever become the urban neighborhood we all hoped it would 10 years ago. As others have pointed out too, it really doesn't do much for locals anymore.

I don't think that Bricktown will ever lose its appeal to people from small town Oklahoma and the suburbs simply because it's mostly all they know and has been their main experience with urban design in Oklahoma. I think Bricktown will continue to thrive as a purely entertainment district, but might not ever become the urban neighborhood we all hoped it would 10 years ago. As others have pointed out too, it really doesn't do much for locals anymore.

On the other hand, I spent happy hour last Friday at Norm's Dockside with a bunch of friends who live around downtown. We rotate where we eat, to include Bricktown as well as the other areas such as Deep Deuce, Automobile Alley, Film Row and Midtown. Before Thunder games Bricktown is hopping, as well as on Friday and Saturday nights.

good to know!

Before Thunder games Bricktown is hopping, as well as on Friday and Saturday nights.

That's why equating Bricktown to places like the West End in Dallas fails. The West End was basically dependant on itself to attract crowds.

My 2 cents:

Although comparisons can be made to other cities, I think that Bricktown is rather unique in the comparison process and I don't think that those comparisons are at all useful to our own analysis in the main. Oklahoma City is not a megalopolis like Dallas and probably never will be and comparisons to Dallas' west end are meaningless (other than to learn from its mistakes).

Closer to home/comparison, we are not like Ft. Worth which has essentially re-created a downtown entertainment district, complete with false historic fronts, to newly create an entertainment area similar, but less historically authentic as far as buildings are concerned, to Bricktown. That said, the Ft.Worth area has much greater walkability than our own Bricktown, and perhaps lessons can be learned from Ft. Worth ... not to mention that a fine transportation hub exists on the east side of downtown which can take passengers to a lot of different places, including an Amtrak train to/from Oklahoma City.

We are not like San Antonio which, unlike Oklahoma City, did not have ever so much of its historic downtown destroyed in an ill-fated massive urban renewal concept/city project. San Antonio has preserved, unintentionally or not, its old dilapidated downtown stuff and that old dilapidated downtown stuff is seeing an excellent renaissance today, if my visit there in July 2011 serves to demonstrate. Old San Antonio downtown dilapidated stuff is increasingly becoming part of San Antonio's downtown charm. Alas, in Oklahoma City, we have pretty much destroyed our "old stuff" in the CBD whereat the same kinds of things could have occurred here and, more, we don't seem to have a particularly high priority on preserving what little of the old CBD stuff that remains. More and more, our CBD is strictly modern business buildings with a few parks, hotels, and restaurants thrown in, but it is decidedly NOT historic or charming and is NOT entertainment in its focus and it is absolutely NOT concerned about old stuff, if recent activities are the measure. For those who are nostalgic, like me, it's probably best that we let go of the notion that Oklahoma City's CBD can ever be "charming" again ... the potential for that opportunity has come and it has gone. Almost everything in the city's CBD that could be dubbed as charming and revitalized is long gone, and very much so. The SandRidge Commons project placed a punctuation mark on the end of charm in Okc's CBD.

If one hankers for old stuff in downtown Oklahoma City, one either has to look at old photos and history books or one has to cross the BNSF RR tracks and go into Bricktown, pretty much the singular focus for entertainment in the central city, pretty much the CBD area that has been fairly preserved, and no other destination alternatives for those purposes seriously exist ... and I don't at all mean to detract from the very nice developments along Auto Alley, Film Row, and Midtown which have strong elements of entertainment and historical preservation or to say that those developments are not really neat. They are. But I think that anyone would be hard pressed to say that the CBD has any serious entertainment and historical preservation destination area other than Bricktown.

Bricktown, as we are all aware, has had its growing pains but what else could be reasonably expected? Any economic area would. It has had plenty of investors who caught the vision of what Bricktown could be but who weren't interested in participating in the development process but who were instead more interested in flipping their acquired properties to other buyers who actually did have an interest in physical development, if the price was right. Those people were/are not interested in the city, they were/are interested in their own pocketbooks. On the other hand, what city doesn't have its share of capitalists who have less interest on being "enlightened" capitalists than in just turning a quick buck. I doubt that our city is unique in having such non-productive capitalists. People who are prone to greed just exist, and they exist everywhere.

Notwithstanding, Bricktown has hung on, has grown and developed, and has become the single greatest destination for entertainment in the city. Enough business interests exist in the existing Bricktown businesses to make it so. And, in my estimation, it is getting better all the time.

Sure, I'd like to see more ... more movie venues, more retail, more of everything fun and entertaining, and sure, I'd like to see those who are solely interested in flipping a property for a profit who don't have an ounce of civic interest in development get a short shrift, but I doubt that they are losing any sleep over it since they don't really give a care about their non-contribution to the city's development. And, don't forget that, relatively speaking, Bricktown is still a baby in its longevity. For a baby, it is a heck of a place.

So, naysayers, keep naysaying and that may well help the future course of Bricktown. But don't lose sight and perspective of all that has been accomplished and the fabulous prospect, I think, of that which is yet to come.

Remember about 6 months ago when one of our OKCTalk family members mentioned the impending demise of Bricktown as competitor neighborhoods start getting established, and every one ripped him a new one. Bricktown has maybe 12 months left to get their act together or what you see in Bricktown now is all you will ever see in Bricktown. And by ‘get their act together’ I mean they better find a way to introduce residential, destination retail, and start rethinking Lower Bricktown (although L.B. might already be too messed up to save).

Deep Deuce is about one or two projects away from providing enough amenities that people living there won't have much reason to leave Deep Deuce, and if they do venture out, it will be to AA and Midtown. Being the only fish in the pond is great until 3 more fish show up.

In 12 months we'll be seeing a new hotel being built in Bricktown, and likely, the conversion of upper floors of some of the warehouses into housing. I'll make a bet real quick that Bricktown will be as busy on Friday nights in one year as it was last night.

If they add residential then yes Bricktown will continue to thrive. That is what I said. However, for every hotel they add, that many locals will find somewhere else downtown to spend their time. In the future, as Deep Deuce continues to develop and housing in Midtown get established those people won't be making a stop in Bricktown before or after a Thunder game, they will have their own neighborhoods to support.

Here here, this site definitely has favoritism depending on the poster. Bricktown appears to be willingly choosing the path of West End, and to no surprise. OKC rarely choses to learn from history

Metro. . .knowing you like to be precisely correct and all. . . "Hear, hear is an expression used as a short, repeated form of hear him, hear him. It represents a listener's agreement with the point being made by a speaker. It is often incorrectly spelled "here here". :tiphat:

Thanks!

I work in Bricktown (at ACM@UCO) and take my couple of days a week of walking from parking to the school to ponder why Bricktown feels like it does. I think it could still go the way of the West End, if it continues to try and be an entertainment ghetto only. It certainly works as one, but mostly for out of town folks. There has to be a balance occur at some point to where the neighborhood becomes an actual neighborhood. The interests in the area are so top-heavy with expensive properties and companies that there is no accountability to more mundane uses of the neighborhood, which matter to residents and locals. Of course this tax base is more reliable, but not more lucrative in a lot of ways (besides property taxes and such-which might not affect developers all that much outside of rents/leases).

I walk past the numerous misspelled-on-purpose bars and clubs, and I know that the city needs these things. But I still marvel at the waste of land and building space that keeps the canal from feeling like anything more than a prop in the background of a business. It feels too sparse-and for locals, the businesses, with some key exceptions, seem more like tawdry tourist shops than anything useful to a local. If there's anything we are seeing now, it's that localism has much more steam than theme-park like neighborhoods, even if the result is the same. For an out of town guest to "feel local," like they are participating in a "real" OKC is just as potent a tourist reality as an "entertainment" district, AND it helps locals not feel so icky to visit. Bricktown has quite a bit of character as it is-trying to trump up the "theme" of the area just makes it feel a little overcooked. People can see that the building was a factory, no need to call it The Factory.

I do think the grocery in Deep Deuce/ Triangle will help Bricktown, only if it seems still a little unlikely that people in those hoods will walk (OKCers walk!?) all the way to AA or Midtown, or wait the 45 min between busses to jump over, so Bricktown will more or less have a grocer (I will be there a lot, and grab groceries there on the way home up north central). The integration of Deep Deuce/Triangle and Bricktown will be good for them all, I'm hoping. Just imagine when an intermodal transit system finds a home nearby...(in 50 years?).

I'm glad to work down there, and I keep warming to the area each week. Here's to filling in the space between the cheeseball clubs with pubs, homes, vital retail, and workaday stuff. It's amazing how sexy a hardware store can be if you live near it, and can walk to get a tool-not drive 15 minutes.

So well put, OKCHerbivore. We moved to the OKC from Celebration, FL, a new urban/touristy neighborhood adjacent to Walt Disney World in Orlando. My wife and I loved living there, but rarely patronized the businesses that were "downtown" because we had no use for them! The locals don't need a doll shop for heaven's sake!

We always take visitors to Bricktown, but never hang out down there with them to eat, and we never hang out down there if we don't have visitors from out of town...why? The retail down there is not worth window shopping and it lacks a "real feel" as you alluded to above. Bricktown needs the kind of shops that are in the Plaza District! Even getting some well-known typically mall-based retail stores to move down there would attract more locals to shop and hang out there. (It works, see Winter Park, FL's Park Ave which has Restoration Hardware, Pottery Barn plus locally-based shops and restaurants: http://www.insideflorida.com/detail/park-ave/

Bricktown just doesn't feel much more than an attraction right now (And keeping with the Orlando comparisons, Bricktown feels more like Downtown Disney, rather than Park Ave. and way more locals hang out at Park Ave.), and I long for BT to be a dynamic neighborhood to go down and spend time and money in. I believe it will be just that someday with the right planning and guidance by and from all stakeholders.

Bricktown needs to decide pretty soon if it wants to be the OKC version of Fisherman's Wharf or the Marina District. It can't be both.

Celebrator - I cringe everytime I head Disney mentioned as an example for anything urban related. Thanks for posting that link to Park Ave, the wife has been dying to do something so maybe a drive down to Winter Park might be in the cards soon. When I want my urban fix we usually head down to St Augustine, park once, and walk/shop/eat for hours.

Celebrator, I understand your criticism. I'm curious about your opinion of the Red Dirt Emporium, Bricktown Marketplace and The Painted Door.

OKCHerbivore: great post..the only thing I might take exception is to things like the "Factory". it isn't always obvious what the building was originally used for and I like the nod to our history. Seems like we have so little of it left and more vanishing.

OKCHerbivore: great post..the only thing I might take exception is to things like the "Factory". it isn't always obvious what the building was originally used for and I like the nod to our history. Seems like we have so little of it left and more vanishing.

I agree, Larry. It's similar to the Ghiradelli Square building in San Franscisco. The name pays homage to it's past use and history.

An easy way to fix some of this is to put a destination business in that locals want to frequent. Something like Dave and Busters would have been a good draw to get people to go to Bricktown some time other than the weekend. Of course, the large footprint would make it hard to fit in since I believe anything that goes in there needs to be able to be urban and go UP, not OUT. But hey, I'm sure something could be figured out in a multi-story configuration to make it work. What better use for some of those upper floors in those old warehouses than the game rooms? The square foot per floor in something like the Hunzicker building would be a great fit. That way you can seperate the "kid" games and the "adult" games. Food on ground floor, kid games next floor up, pool/darts/bar up the following upper floors.

I just think something along that concept would be a good draw. You either eat or see a movie right now. And everything in lower Bricktown is as suburban as a strip mall...drive up, shop, leave. Had we actually gotten the Sega Gameworks, maybe that would have been a draw for some stuff too. But we're always seeing that it's difficult to keep retailers in there....sound familiar (automobile alley). I don't think it should ever turn into a place where Old Navy is....same argument I had against it for AA. We really need unique destinations that aren't available in other places. Heck, throw in some laser tag (there are only like 2 others in town now...far NW and almost Norman, so it's a good middle location). SOMETHING to bring people in on a normal day. Otherwise we're doomed to the dead after 5 Sunday-Thursday curse.

I hate to keep bringing up the Old Market in Omaha, but that's what I wish Bricktown were more like. Here's a link to the retail there. The only chain, I believe, is the Overland Sheepskin Co. Everything else is local retail. The shops are scattered throughout the district, with great local restaurants in between. And then the flowers.....businesses have huge awnings lined with flower boxes that have their own irrigation system. It's a really nice destination and the unique restaurants and shops make it as appealing for locals and visitors.

http://www.oldmarket.com/results.aspx?cat=40

Perhaps when there are more residents living near Bricktown, we'll get more retail. It would be a great draw for conventioneers as well, so I really don't understand why the chamber doesn't do more to promote retail there.

Until the focus changes from real estate speculation to actual development, Bricktown will not progress very quickly and will stay in jeopardy of being passed by. The whole idea of developing the canal, ballpark, etc. was to create development, not to enable non-value added speculation. I happen to think that passing on Funk's proposed development was a signal that it was only going to be an entertainment district. I think Btown is at a very serious crossroads and needs to decide what it wants to be when it grows up.

Some pretty big things are coming to Bricktown that will likely spur further development: the streetcar and the multi-modal transit center.

I also think that when the projects in Deep Deuce are complete in another year or two, the success of the living units there in particular may finally force BT over the hump when it comes to apartments.

In the meantime, I don't see anything big happening there, other than the proposed hotels. I'm sure it will continue to rock along as it has for a couple of decades now.

I guess it might be coming down to a tortoise and hare deal. BT jumped out to an early lead because of MAPS spending but it seems MAPS money became the life blood. Meanwhile, not a MAPS dollar was spent in Deep Deuce and while it started out slow it seems to have the stamina to make it to the end first, and by end, I mean an actual established neighborhood with no vacant land.

To be fair to Bricktown and the owners/developers there, we've seen very little renovation of old buildings anywhere in OKC, and that's about all there is in BT.

No matter your opinion of the Centennial and the rest of the Lower BT developments, they have all been a commercial success. But that was all new construction, as is everything in Deep Deuce.

We've seen renovation to living units in Midtown but on a pretty small scale.

The economics of renovating old buildings into new living units and being to do it profitably still doesn't add up. It's far easier for restaurant/bar space because the owner can demand much more rent.

I think lots of people want to renovate those old buildings but can't make the numbers work. Considering the shrinking amount of downtown office space, it may be time to look at converting some of those upper levels to offices.

Funny, when we opened Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (http://www.reddirtemporium.com/) and the Bricktown Marketplace (http://www.bricktownmarketplace.com/) over the past four years, we worked very hard not to be "icky" or "tawdry," but I guess we somehow missed the mark. This despite being the first store (the emporium) in the state that I am aware of to exclusively carry Oklahoma-themed and Made-in-Oklahoma items. We were being painfully aware (we thought) of appealing to not just visitors (who abound in Bricktown and are easy to target), but also locals (who still abound, but are more fickle and diverse in tastes and more difficult to target).

Local movement? We carry more Made-in-Oklahoma food items than nearly anyplace I know of, and have been doing so since 2007, before the "local" movement had picked up much steam if any in this market. We were one of the first members of KeepItLocalOK (http://www.keepitlocalok.com/) and have tirelessly tweeted (http://twitter.com/reddirtemporium), Facebooked (http://www.facebook.com/reddirtemporium) and whatever else to anyone else who would listen about the virtues of Local. We proudly feature Oklahoma music and Oklahoma musicians. We were the first - and longtime - exclusive sponsor of the Oklahoma Rock Show on The Spy FM, hosted by two ACM faculty members, Ryan LaCroix and Lacey Lett. We invited local musicians to play in the store, and on our patio. Separate from us, the Chevy Bricktown Showcase has featured TONS of local musicians throughout the district for some time now. I have and intend to continue to employ ACM students.

We reached out to the Oklahoma Film and Music office to help us put Oklahoma films in the store, and recently started a dialog with DeadCenter about working more closely with them. We've partnered with the Oklahoma City Museum of Art on merchandise. Since day one we have partnered with Full Circle Books to have a great selection of books telling the story of our city and our state.

When we started the Bricktown Marketplace, we opened the door for local retailers to dip their toe in the Bricktown market. Still acutely desiring to "keep it local," we reached out to other districts in the city so that there would be representation of more than Bricktown when visitors arrive here. In some cases we offered this space at a drastic reduction in rent, because we wanted so much to include this diversity and allow visitors to sample ALL of Oklahoma City's offerings. I'm proud to say that when we opened we had vendors from the Plaza District (DNA Galleries, JuJu Gallery, Collected Thread and Istvan Gallery participated), Midtown, and Stockyards City. We still have a Plaza booth, maintained by DNA Galleries. Every one of our approximately 50 vendors is from Oklahoma, and most within the metro. The 6,000 sq ft we have there represents the largest locally-owned retail floorplate in ALL of downtown Oklahoma City.

But that's OK. Now that I know we are never going to be anything more than "icky" or "tawdry," it relieves a lot of pressure on me. I think I am going to put together a clearance sale on all of my thoughtfully-curated merchandise, and turn all of that cash into rubber tomahawks and made-in-China war bonnets, both of which I have until now refused to carry, but which know for a FACT I could sell by the container-load.

OKCHerbivore, I'm going to bet you've not stepped foot in the marketplace, emporium or painted door. But if you have, maybe you can explain a bit more as to why you would think they are "icky and taudry," or if you were referring to other shops.

Urbanized, I have you thought of opening a store in Deep Deuce that carries the food items you have available? If not already, there will soon be 1,000 people living there that have to eat everyday and most of them have above average income for their age demographic.

In a word, no. Native Roots Market will be opening soon in Deep Deuce, carrying many if not most of the food items I do. And by the way, I welcome that and I'm very excited by it. But based on my partnerships and our current economy of scale, I'm pretty married to Bricktown locations for the foreseeable future. Also, I'm not really in the grocery business (though I carry a bunch of MIO food products), I'm in the "Oklahoma" business.

That doesn't mean I haven't thought about replicating the Red Dirt Emporium elsewhere in OKC and even the state. I think it would perhaps do even better in a mall or other location than it does in Bricktown, especially with minor retooling that eliminates the Bricktown-requisite souvenir merchandise. But we're interested first and foremost in improving the Bricktown experience, which is why we have put so much time, effort and expense into the current locations.

If they add residential then yes Bricktown will continue to thrive. That is what I said. However, for every hotel they add, that many locals will find somewhere else downtown to spend their time. In the future, as Deep Deuce continues to develop and housing in Midtown get established those people won't be making a stop in Bricktown before or after a Thunder game, they will have their own neighborhoods to support.

I don't actually believe that there's an inverse relationship between out of town tourists and local crowd. I don't think we have a local crowd that is desperate to get away from all these flocks of tourists that we get here in Oklahoma. If that was realistic, then I think you'd have more of a point about the local crowd..

However there is something intrinsic that has to explain why Mid-town does more for locals these days than Bricktown. I hate to see downtown through the all-to-frequent "Bricktown first lens" but I don't think you can correct that with an anti-Bricktown bias, either, which some on this forum probably do have.

I think people are too hard on Bricktown.

Do you realize there are currently more than 50 bars/longues/pubs/restaurants in the area? 50! And at least a couple of more have just opened or will soon, plus a completely remodeled Bricktown Brewery.

Plus, you have two new hotels that will be added into the mix to the two that have been completed in just the last few years. AND, not only do you have ACM@UCO but they are greatly expanding and even bought their building.

Add to that a long sold-out condo complex, a big movie theater, a bowling lounge, live music, Bricktown Ballpark and some retail and there is a lot going on down there.


Yes, it could be a lot more and I think it will be in the near future, but I think too many people complain without recognizing how much is there and how much has been added just in the last few years. And BTW, all those residential units in Deep Deuce are only going to help Bricktown.

I am probably as guilty as the next person - I keep forgetting Bricktown is a regional entertainment district and not a neighborhood.

I think it can/should be both. But I will ask these questions:

Why would a new hotel in Bricktown be something that drives locals further away, yet a new hotel in Deep Deuce is such a great thing?

Why does Bricktown have an almost universally-accepted restaurant reputation as "chains-only" and other districts such as Automobile Alley, Midtown and Western Avenue NOT get the same reputation while having very similar restaurant group makeup, and in some cases exactly the same?

I think sometimes there are a number of double standards applied when discussing this district. It is an easy target and has few vocal advocates (Bricktown's own fault).

I think one of Bricktown's biggest problems is that it was first. Everyone attached ALL of their hopes and dreams to it, and things didn't always take the path that everyone wanted. It also didn't have the advantage of watching other districts in OKC come together and use the others' failings or successes to instruct their own approach. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

The ownership changes over the past couple of years have changed the landscape greatly. Many of the "squatters" people decry are no longer in the mix. There are new owners with new plans and new ways of looking at things. I think Bricktown's story is far from being written in stone at this point.

I think most are frustrated by the lack of development / redevelopment along the canal and he dearth of living units, and I can understand that.

But we also tend to overlook what is already there and those other things can and will probably still happen.


And I will say that every time I'm in town I end up down there for some reason and there are always throngs of people out and about. It's nice to see that type of activity and it's the only place in town where it is happening.

Why does Bricktown have an almost universally-accepted restaurant reputation as "chains-only" and other districts such as Automobile Alley, Midtown and Western Avenue NOT get the same reputation while having very similar restaurant group makeup, and in some cases exactly the same?

Are they the same? Let's take Automobile Alley as an example - Iguana's (local), Sara Sara Cupcakes (local), Panchinko Parlor (local), Red (local), Hideaway (Oklahoma). Are there any others in AA? Okay, so every single restaurant in AA is local or Oklahoma.

Bricktown has chains like Abuelos, Zio's, IHOP, McDonald's with some Oklahoma and local places also.

So, I guess the reason people say AA is more local than Bricktown is because AA is more local than Bricktown.

Eh. Automobile Alley also has far less retail presence and history than Bricktown. Chains are coming to Automobile Alley....

Celebrator, I understand your criticism. I'm curious about your opinion of the Red Dirt Emporium, Bricktown Marketplace and The Painted Door.

I like all of those places, they are a great start. I think unique can be mixed with familiar (read: chain) and they can co-exist and do so successfully.

Yipes! It's all gone nuclear! Internet world!

I should have been more specific in describing some of the spots that seem to really speak well for bricktown, because of course (i only mentioned in passing, which was my bad) that there some exceptions to the general sense of "tawdriness" in the hood, and of course the aforementioned Bricktown Marketplace and Red Dirt Emporium (as well as Candy Mercantile, Bourbon St., Tapwerks, nice restaurants like Mantel and Mickey Mantle's, the banjo museum, Red Pin, Falcone's, etc. there's more) . Of course these places are valuable, well done, and hopefully will anchor the area for years and years. I know Archives just moved into BT Marketplace (I've been to Red Dirt and BT Market, Painted Door isn't really my deal) and I've loved that place since I was a kid when it was in Edmond. The movement of stuff like that into BT is very encouraging, and I'm sorry that didnt come across better in my post-I meant it to be pretty optimistic, especially when considering Deep Deuce and even some of the CBD will continue to be tied to the area and help balance it some with housing.

Perhaps the frustration some have with the neighborhood comes from the marginalization those spots face in the overall sense of Bricktown as a neighborhood, and as one that is not simply for weekend evening visits and out of towners. Of course there are exceptions, and as more offices and homes arrive it becomes more and more of a workaday AND weekend spot. That's the hopeful vision for any inner city neighborhood: to be able to provide a dense network of goods and services. That phrase sounds bland, but it is what helps to skeleton a neighborhood, while the skin and clothes are all manner of distinctives.

BT has done one of the best jobs of anywhere in OKC (of course, not much left in central OKC) of preserving historic buildings, allowing that image to color things, and of at least not using great storefronts to park cars inside (like AA does to a frustrating degree). The chain factor is a little high, but not over-the-top. Ironically, the idea of the area as a shopping magnet both intrigues me (adding a few chain anchors might be good to draw people in to the local spots that offer much more than the chains could anyways), but it also adds more competition with the local places. A tough balance anywhere.

I hope my hopes somehow show as desiring BT to have more of a connection to the current movements of the city in terms of localism, urbanism, and transit. I know the hub will likely be there-but when? How do we help the rest of the city to see the immense value of Red Dirt and BT Marketplace and the like? How does it both keep a vibrant nightlife, and provide needed clubs (i'm biased because I'm not a clubgoing type, but I love Tapwerks) while not seeming like the area full of nappy meatmarkets to the rest of the burgeoning city? Of course that's not the only story of the area, but I get constant fears of Navy Pier or Louisville's 4th st (might be 3rd? can't remember) nonsense that really just caters to an unfortunately vapid sort of entertainment thing (in Louisville it overshadows Thomas Merton's epiphany site. sad.).

BT was first to wake the city back up to itself: I remember it being Spaghetti Warehouse and blight, and that was it. It has roared into something lovely-I was thinking about it walking to classes today. Just like so many other things in our city, we can get frustrated to no end because we have actual hopes for it. I'm glad it elicits such emotional responses-it shows we care, and FWIW, we are on the same team. It's probably really accurate that because the "new" of BT has long worn off, people who seek the latest and greatest hot spot will get bored, but those folks don't build a lasting hood anyways. The hope is to blend the bursts of enthusiasm and big-$$ retailers and sales tax dollars (king in OKC) with some sort of functioning, daily neighborhood-where people don't feel the need to leave at night if they aren't going to a movie or dancing. And if they want to...they just have to walk a few blocks.

Good comments by all. My next question: Do any of the veterans of OKC Talk recognize a pattern in these threads? OKC Talk has been around since what? - 2004/05? It seems like every two years there's a discussion about how Bricktown's best days are over....

Good comments by all. My next question: Do any of the veterans of OKC Talk recognize a pattern in these threads? OKC Talk has been around since what? - 2004/05? It seems like every two years there's a discussion about how Bricktown's best days are over....

I'm not sure, but I know that Bricktown will continue to grow. Slowly, yes due to armed agents carrying around loaded guns preventing Bricktown from gaining "Da Bomb" status, but we will get there one way or another.

Why would a new hotel in Bricktown be something that drives locals further away, yet a new hotel in Deep Deuce is such a great thing?

Let me clarify my original comment. I wasn't suggesting that a new hotel in Bricktown would drive away locals. I was trying to make the point that people who frequent Bricktown will be some of the same people who end up moving into Deep Deuce, AA, Film District, and Midtown. Once those people make the move from suburbia into their new urban location they will not need Bricktown because they will have their very own urban neighborhood to support. Midtown and Deep Deuce are adding urban residents faster than Bricktown ever thought about.

Let me explain it a different way. I was 17 when my friend Ron got his car first car. I went everywhere with Ron. We cruised for chicks, went camping and fishing, went to the mall - heck, I even helped him wash and wax it and chipped in some gas money. But then when I was 19 I got my own car. I didn't spend much time riding around with Ron after that and I sure didn't give him anymore gas money. I had my own car to wash, wax, and put gas in.

Let me clarify my original comment. I wasn't suggesting that a new hotel in Bricktown would drive away locals. I was trying to make the point that people who frequent Bricktown will be some of the same people who end up moving into Deep Deuce, AA, Film District, and Midtown. Once those people make the move from suburbia into their new urban location they will not need Bricktown because they will have their very own urban neighborhood to support. Midtown and Deep Deuce are adding urban residents faster than Bricktown ever thought about.

Let me explain it a different way. I was 17 when my friend Ron got his car first car. I went everywhere with Ron. We cruised for chicks, went camping and fishing, went to the mall - heck, I even helped him wash and wax it and chipped in some gas money. But then when I was 19 I got my own car. I didn't spend much time riding around with Ron after that and I sure didn't give him anymore gas money. I had my own car to wash, wax, and put gas in.

I think you're taking neighborhood loyalty a bit too far. You're saying that people who live in DD will abandon Bricktown "because they'll have their own neighborhood to support." That's a fantasy. How many people sit around and decide that they aren't going to go up north May Ave because they need to "support" their own neighborhood out Northwest Expressway? If there's something I want - I go. I don't give a second thought to what district or neighborhood it's in. This would be times ten for these new walkable neighborhoods in DD and Bricktown. The boundary lines are invisible and people won't give a thought to "betraying" one or the other to go where they want to go. The growing areas around downtown aren't exactly Manhattan. In DD and Bricktown and AA, you can still almost scream at one end and be heard at the other.

MikeOKC - your shopping decisions are influenced by you traveling around in a car. You don't mind traveling 4 miles to get a $2 item because you have a car, a wide road, and a large parking lot to make it all possible. When you start moving around on foot how far you are willing to travel will change. You sure won't be walking 4 miles for a $2 item and in an urban environment driving won't be an option, not because parking is a hassle, but because you don't have to; the $2 items will be available at the corner market. I am not saying it is going to happen overnight, but it will happen. The seeds of change have been planted.

Would all of the Bricktown worries be solved, if a developer announced today that they will build a 250 unit apartment project in Bricktown?

bricktown .... Brix (local) bricktown brewery(local) The Mantle(local) bolaro (local) lots and lots of local and oklahoma places in bricktown