I'm not sure if Western Avenue has it's own thread and if it does I apologize for creating this thread and please merge to the appropriate area.

http://www.visitwesternavenue.com/

Western Ave District ... Recently I have been spending a fair amount of time in this area especially on the south end of this district between N41st & N50th. I find this south end stretch of Western Ave. very interesting with a strong concentrated mix of retail, restaurants, bars, art, and services. My opinion is that this may be the best developed inner area district of Okc. However, Western Ave. seems to be missing something that would give it the final touch?

Walkability ...... I think the city of Okc needs to make the south end (between 40th - 50th) Western Ave district the top priority for new sidewalks, bicycle lanes and to rework the side street parking. Much like so many areas of Okc it is very unfriendly to pedestrians and cyclists. It is very difficult to walk in an area that should definitely be a walkable district.

This area is so close with all the private development already in place. It is only lacking the investment from the City to truly make this district shine even brighter.

I'm not sure if Western Avenue has it's own thread and if it does I apologize for creating this thread and please merge to the appropriate area.

http://www.visitwesternavenue.com/

Western Ave District ... Recently I have been spending a fair amount of time in this area especially on the south end of this district between N41st & N50th. I find this south end stretch of Western Ave. very interesting with a strong concentrated mix of retail, restaurants, bars, art, and services. My opinion is that this may be the best developed inner area district of Okc. However, Western Ave. seems to be missing something that would give it the final touch?

Walkability ...... I think the city of Okc needs to make the south end (between 40th - 50th) Western Ave district the top priority for new sidewalks, bicycle lanes and to rework the side street parking. Much like so many areas of Okc it is very unfriendly to pedestrians and cyclists. It is very difficult to walk in an area that should definitely be a walkable district.

This area is so close with all the private development already in place. It is only lacking the investment from the City to truly make this district shine even brighter.

I agree, this is a destination area for me on my lunch break, because I don't work that far from the area. There are unique restaurants and retail, but you are right in that its not pedestrian friendly. They should widen the streets with a center median for turning, 2 lanes on each side, and redo sidewalks and landscaping.

I agree, this is a destination area for me on my lunch break, because I don't work that far from the area. There are unique restaurants and retail, but you are right in that its not pedestrian friendly. They should widen the streets with a center median for turning, 2 lanes on each side, and redo sidewalks and landscaping.

G.Walker, really? Do you know what walkability means? 4 lanes and a median is not walkable. They just need to add sidewalks. Making the streets wider would require them to knock down the businesses you frequent.

G.Walker, really? Do you know what walkability means? 4 lanes and a median is not walkable. They just need to add sidewalks. Making the streets wider would require them to knock down the businesses you frequent.

If anything they need to narrow the streets, build sidewalks, put in traffic circles, and get rid of segragated zoning.

G walker wants to widen everything so whats there can be torn down and everything would have to start over.....we could revisit the sixties or just turn the whole area into a big parking lot......

If anything they need to narrow the streets, build sidewalks, put in traffic circles, and get rid of segragated zoning.

This is what I have in mind too. Narrow the streets, adding a bicycle lane, giving the Western Ave. properties a larger storefront area for outside dining / exhibits, while also having ample sidewalk widths for pedestrian strolling. There needs to be at least a couple of pedestrian crosswalks with flashing in-street lights too. Just giving this area a cohesive flow from one point to the other.

Okc is really missing out here, especially considering all the private investment that is already in place here. It seems like there are other Districts that have received much needed improvements, why not the Western Ave District?

I agree that Western Ave should be more pedestrian friendly. It's a really nice little area that deserves more attention.

There is money in the 2007 bond issue to re-do Western from Shartel to I-44. I believe that it hhas been delayed because bonds have not sold as fast as they would hope due to the economy.

This needs to happen. I wonder if Chesapeake would help finance it? It would enhance the connection between their campus and this district as well as downtown.

2 lanes with bike lanes and wider sidewalks with on-street parking. It would really enhance that area of the city.

They need to pick an intersection and urbanize it. Narrow the road to one lane in each direction, put in on street parking, remove segregation style zoning restriction, put in bike lanes that reach into the surrounding residential areas, hang some decorative lights across the street, and add some midblock crosswalks - and see what happens.

I agree with all these suggestions (except make the street wider). There are so many new and upcoming areas being invested in, but a simple investment in this already established area would be well worth it.

The plaza district paid for their improvements out of their own pockets.

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

Sorry... Unhipster? Lol

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

Lol. But true, westerns streets are fine as it is

lasomeday I don't believe that the landowners paid for the street and lighting improvements that were made along 16th street. Maybe it is my misunderstanding of what you meant. If you meant that all the building improvements were made by the individual owners, I would agree with you on that point. But the sidewalks, planters, lighting and seating were all paid for by the city.

The plaza district paid for their improvements out of their own pockets.

Wrong.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. Didn't the Plaza District get its start from concerned residents in the area who wrote grants and got the city on board?

I would also attribute much of the success of the Plaza District becoming what it is to the Plaza District Association (a nonprofit whose sole purpose is to revitalize the area). I know that the Western Ave businesses have some sort of association, but it isn't as developed as its counterpart in the Plaza. I don't even think the Western Ave association (or whatever it is) has a full-time, let alone part-time, person working for it.

I think all of the above ideas are great, sans the widening. Western really is a unique area and has been a stable area for restaurants and retail for quite sometime now. I think Crown Heights and some of the other neighborhoods in the area would be smart to be proactive in getting the city to make some of the suggested improvements.

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

That wasn't the part of Western we (at least I) was talking about, but you make a great point. Western between 41st and 46th already is two lanes and has on-street parking. Now it just needs some better sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic circles, and bicycle lanes connecting the adjacent neighborhoods. The goal should not be to make these places destinations people drive to from all over OKC, they should exist to serve the needs of the immediate neighborhoods. These types of commercial/retail clusters should exist all over the urban core every mile or so. This is what I mean when I say OKC needs to rebuild the traditional neighborhood model when I discuss mass transit strategies, but I digress.

The goal should not be to make these places destinations people drive to from all over OKC, they should exist to serve the needs of the immediate neighborhoods. These types of commercial/retail clusters should exist all over the urban core every mile or so. This is what I mean when I say OKC needs to rebuild the traditional neighborhood model when I discuss mass transit strategies, but I digress.

:bow:

Now it just needs some better sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic circles, and bicycle lanes connecting the adjacent neighborhoods.

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

Traffic circles are not the problem, people just don't know how to use them (need retraining on what a Yield Sign means)

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

They don't need traffic circles at every intersection, just at the beginning and end of the commercial cluster. Say one at 41st and one at 46th. Plus, they don't have to be big ones that take up a lot of room. Traffic circles are a traffic calming technique and once the traffic is slowed down you don't need to keep slowing it down. That is why there is one at each end of the St Anthony's campus on 10th, and not on the two intersections in between. Also, traffic circles are not the most pedestrian friendly setup so you don't want them within a pedestrian zone.

In retrospect - I should have been using the term 'roundabout' and not 'traffic circle'. They aren't the same thing.

I applaud these suggestions for Western Ave. and the comments in this thread.

I want to be sure I correctly understand what segregated zoning means. Will someone please explain it to me?

Thank you.

I applaud these suggestions for Western Ave. and the comments in this thread.

I want to be sure I correctly understand what segregated zoning means. Will someone please explain it to me?

Thank you.

Modern zoning divides activities up. Housing goes over there, retail goes over here, commercial goes down there. And then it gets subdivided from there again. Housing less than 5 units per acre goes in that section, and more than 20 units per acres go in another section. It requires people to have to travel when their activity changes. If you want to eat dinner you have to leave the residential area and go the commercial district. If you want to buy something you have to go to a retail district. And heaven forbid you want to get a beer; you have to drive all over the place to get one of those. Plus, zoning is usually 2 dimensional even though we live in a 3D world. This creates nothing but single use one story buildings because for the most part, multi-use isn't allowed by default.

There should be 3 zones; rural, industrial, everything else. Of course, people will argue that a bar will exist next to a school or a strip club might infringe on a residential neighborhood. I say, let the consumers make that decision. If left to their own will, business will go where their customers are. It is because of segregated zoning that customers now have to go to where the business are; which is how we ended up with 6 lanes roads and 20 acre parking lots.

Each of these little commercial clusters should become the downtown for each neighborhood. Community banks, local diners, law office, insurance office, local clothiers, drug stores, groceries, etc... There shouldn't be a need to drive all over the place for these things, but segregated zoning requires it. Zoning isn't just land use, it also controls how many parking space you have to have, how big the parking spaces need to be, and how much landscaping is required. A bar should be able to exist in this section of Western and narry a parking spot should be required (in fact, we would probably be better off if there was no parking - make the drunks walk home).

Here is a link to all the zoning districts in OKC and what is allowed in each one.

http://gis.okc.gov/netapps/OnlineZoning/OnlineZoning/forms/ZoningDefinitions.pdf

You can access a zoning map here (just select the zoning option at the top of the map and then zoom in):
http://okcedis.com/

Incidently - this section of Western is zone C-4:

General Commercial District. The C-4 District is intended for the conduct of wholesale, retail and office business activities that serve the needs of citizens from anywhere in the metropolitan area, rather than being oriented only to surrounding residential areas. Because the permitted uses may serve and employ a large number of people from a large part of the metropolitan area, the activities conducted, and the traffic generated, make this district very much incompatible with residential development. The Comprehensive Plan policy does not support further expansion of the C-4 District.

What this section of Western really needs is high density housing and professional services built on top of retail and resturants, but we are too busy worrying about where cars will park to do that.

There are sidewalks on much of Western between 36th and 50th, but there are so many driveways bisecting them that it makes the area feel less walkable. The other problem is that there are no stoplights. Pedestrians have to take their lives into their hands because people frequently drive 40 through there. I shop a lot in that area and even backing out from the angle parking in front of some of the stores is risky, much less trying to cross the street on foot.

There are sidewalks on much of Western between 36th and 50th, but there are so many driveways bisecting them that it makes the area feel less walkable. The other problem is that there are no stoplights. Pedestrians have to take their lives into their hands because people frequently drive 40 through there. I shop a lot in that area and even backing out from the angle parking in front of some of the stores is risky, much less trying to cross the street on foot.

That is why I suggested roundabouts at 41st and 46th. It slows the traffic down which makes it safer for everyone. I would even like to see mid-block crosswalks that have the yellow crossing lights like they have in London. As for all the driveways, that section would need to be completely reworked. It needs to be road, parking, large sidewalk, store front. Right now it is road, sidewalk, parking, small sidewalk, store front.

http://images.travelpod.co.uk/users/travellingross/1.1254431404.abbey-rd-studios-crosswalk.jpg

Well again, the 2007 bond issue Western Ave project that has not started yet is all about walkability. In fact, it is my understanding that it will change very little of the street itself (remains two lanes) and focuses more on sidewalks, landscaping, and monuments. We are working a little bit on it.

Well again, the 2007 bond issue Western Ave project that has not started yet is all about walkability. In fact, it is my understanding that it will change very little of the street itself (remains two lanes) and focuses more on sidewalks, landscaping, and monuments. We are working a little bit on it.

That is good to know, now we just need to get rid of the zoning restrictions. It would also be nice if the commercial activity wasn't restricted to just Western but went down the side streets as well.

Well again, the 2007 bond issue Western Ave project that has not started yet is all about walkability. In fact, it is my understanding that it will change very little of the street itself (remains two lanes) and focuses more on sidewalks, landscaping, and monuments. We are working a little bit on it.

I'm not familiar with the 2007 bond issue for Western Ave so is it delayed currently or has it not been scheduled to start yet?

I'm not familiar with the 2007 bond issue for Western Ave so is it delayed currently or has it not been scheduled to start yet?

I will try to find out. I need to know for our project as well. Lol. I do know that the final designs were completed by the engineering firm and submitted for approval. Work had been scheduled to start the first part of next year but it could have been delayed. It is a pretty expansive project.

That is good to know, now we just need to get rid of the zoning restrictions. It would also be nice if the commercial activity wasn't restricted to just Western but went down the side streets as well.

There are nice houses on both sides of the street though? (granted, some streets that are less nice, too, but it's mostly pretty nice)

There are nice houses on both sides of the street though? (granted, some streets that are less nice, too, but it's mostly pretty nice)

Yes, that's a well developed residential area and it may not be too conducive to extended commercial activity there. There is plenty of room for commercial development in that corridor without going into the residential areas.

As for as all that goes, I think Western still needs to grow, honestly. It still looks pretty fledgling if you compare it to Brookside, for example. I see Brookside as an example of precisely what Western CAN become, but it has a long ways to go. Brookside has benefited from being in the most upscale part of the state, Philbrook and all. The inner north side is still considered kinda dumpy by people who don't really know. As the inner north side's reputation and image gets a big upgrade with some of these new projects happening all around, I think that will be a big difference-maker for Western Avenue as well.

Where Brookside is essentially about 15 blocks long, Western spreads the same thing and more about 50 blocks. Wilshire to 63rd, then the Curve to 36th, then it jumps over to Classen on down to downtown. Most of the cool part of Brookside is between 33rd and 36th and then scattered along the way out to I-44 (51st). Either Western from Wishire to Chesapeake or Western from the Curve to the Cafe Nova area is very comparable (without the tattoo parlors and biker bars in Brookside. Western from 30th to Classen has a ways to go.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing on Western. I get the impression some of you want Western to be a 4 mile long retail corridor. I am suggesting that it have four neighborhood commercial clusters one mile or so apart over a 4 miles total length.

Where Brookside is essentially about 15 blocks long, Western spreads the same thing and more about 50 blocks. Wilshire to 63rd, then the Curve to 36th, then it jumps over to Classen on down to downtown. Most of the cool part of Brookside is between 33rd and 36th and then scattered along the way out to I-44 (51st). Either Western from Wishire to Chesapeake or Western from the Curve to the Cafe Nova area is very comparable (without the tattoo parlors and biker bars in Brookside. Western from 30th to Classen has a ways to go.

Peoria from about 33rd down to 41st is always jumping in the evenings. There's not a strip like it elsewhere in the state. The area around Cafe Nova has practically nothing in common with the Brookside's densest blocks. It's like comparing Bricktown to South Beach. Outside of those 4-5 blocks of Brookside though, I would agree that the strips are similar. Whole Foods is at 41st, Perry's is across the street, the new Ballet Tulsa facility is past 45th, and so on.

I did anticipate the "Western has everything that Brookside has, just more spread out" argument. The problem with that though is that it IS the critical mass of Brookside, with everything packed in so tight, that creates this "jumping" environment with crowds everywhere. You can actually see people enjoying all of the different patios, window shopping, on a rooftop bar, just taking a stroll along the strip, etc. Seeing other humans like yourself actually doing active things brings the urban experience to another level not seen elsewhere in Oklahoma.

Spartan, I agree and I don't. I used to live near the area in Tulsa and really enjoyed it. But the really lively area is a very few blocks. My point was that in OKC, as with a lot of things, there is little concentration of business and activity and that hurts. Sometimes being smaller helps. Tulsa, Wichita, etc. almost seem to benefit by having smaller populations and higher concentration of businesses in fewer and smaller areas. OKC has soooo many pockets that compete with each other it scatters everyone. We have Western, mid-town, Bricktown, Deep Deuce and now Film Row and AA, all competing for being "cool". We don't let one mature before we are on to the other. Hard to gain critical mass everywhere. I think we have had fantastic progress the last 10 years, but we seem to have difficulty concentrating.

There's not a strip like it elsewhere in the state.

I beg to differ. Cherry Street is pretty close, and Campus Corner has come a long way in the last few years!

Spartan, I agree and I don't. I used to live near the area in Tulsa and really enjoyed it. But the really lively area is a very few blocks. My point was that in OKC, as with a lot of things, there is little concentration of business and activity and that hurts. Sometimes being smaller helps. Tulsa, Wichita, etc. almost seem to benefit by having smaller populations and higher concentration of businesses in fewer and smaller areas. OKC has soooo many pockets that compete with each other it scatters everyone. We have Western, mid-town, Bricktown, Deep Deuce and now Film Row and AA, all competing for being "cool". We don't let one mature before we are on to the other. Hard to gain critical mass everywhere. I think we have had fantastic progress the last 10 years, but we seem to have difficulty concentrating.

What.......maybe if the government was doing the development, but when PEOPLE own property all over ANY city, it happens organically. If I own property in AA and you own in Film Row, why on earth would I wait 20 or more years for your area to fully develop before I decided to develop my area, just so one area can "mature". That's asinine. Any healthy city has multiple pockets of development and it is usually cyclical in popularity. OKC is doing a darn fine job given our population, land size, and average HH income. You also have to realize we are decades and even centuries younger than more developed cities.

The area around Cafe Nova is similar to Brookside. It just needs a unified streetscape and more density. A few more continous blocks like Cafe Nova/Sushi Neko/Will Rogers Theater would really enhance the walkability. There is a decent nightlife district with places in walking distance of each other (VZD's, Sipango, Nova, Neko) but a few more places in addition to the Speakeasy, Hi Lo and Edna's a bit further north would be great.

What.......maybe if the government was doing the development, but when PEOPLE own property all over ANY city, it happens organically. If I own property in AA and you own in Film Row, why on earth would I wait 20 or more years for your area to fully develop before I decided to develop my area, just so one area can "mature". That's asinine. Any healthy city has multiple pockets of development and it is usually cyclical in popularity. OKC is doing a darn fine job given our population, land size, and average HH income. You also have to realize we are decades and even centuries younger than more developed cities.

Wow. If you follow my posts you would know I am often criticized for being TOO pro free enterprise. I am not sure I understand your response. However, it doesn't change the fact that our patterns HAVE been scitzo. We don't have the population to develop well everything we have going now. It will take a great amount of time. Some cities have organically concentrated. We have not.

I know it isn't in the core, but we may well find out that the Curve and Western north and south of Chesapeake will develop quickly and fully because one developer is creating their own center of gravity. Others will fall into it as it quickly becomes denser and more developed.

You can only control it so much in a free market, or what's left of one.

I own property in SOSA, why would I wait to help jumpstart this area until Western Ave. or Deep Deuce reach critical mass? Areas can coexist while still finding themselves.

You can only control it so much in a free market, or what's left of one.

I own property in SOSA, why would I wait to help jumpstart this area until Western Ave. or Deep Deuce reach critical mass? Areas can coexist while still finding themselves.

Yes. The free market has completely disappeared. The strangest part is that my life seems exactly the same and I still make free market choices everyday. The sky is falling!

You can only control it so much in a free market, or what's left of one.

Free market left the building a long time ago. The entire urban sprawl model was built on automobile subsidies.

Sometimes it is better to create some synergy. Everybody for themselves doesn't necessarily mean everyone wins. Cooperation can often benefit EVERYONE.

The area around Cafe Nova is similar to Brookside. It just needs a unified streetscape and more density. A few more continous blocks like Cafe Nova/Sushi Neko/Will Rogers Theater would really enhance the walkability. There is a decent nightlife district with places in walking distance of each other (VZD's, Sipango, Nova, Neko) but a few more places in addition to the Speakeasy, Hi Lo and Edna's a bit further north would be great.

Western is hardly like Brookside or even Cherry St, which I like best. The problem is that it will be very difficult to redevelop any areas to the immediate north and south of Neko/nova/VZDs. The south side is all but impossible with Putnam Heights homes along that stretch. Possibly to the north but unlikely as well. The large swath of commercial buildings like Brookside has is not present along Western. At least not in a concentrated area. If more people would have been in on the redeveloping a decade ago when properties were cheaper we could have been further along. Sadly, it is basically too espensive and difficult to redevelop along that stretch of Western.

I've said this before, but as far as vibrant, dense, walkable, organic urban entertainment districts go, Tulsa has had an edge for a long time, but OKC has some nice potential... This is how I'd rank them using the previous adjectives (not personal preference) as criteria:

1. Brookside (Tulsa)
2. Campus Corner (Norman)
3. Bricktown (OKC)
4. Cherry Street (Tulsa)
5. Western (OKC)
6. Blue Dome (Tulsa)
7. The Strip (Stillwater)
8. Brady (Tulsa)
9. Plaza Court (OKC)
10. Plaza District (OKC)
11. Paseo (OKC)
12. Main Street (Norman)
13. Automobile Alley (including 9th Street) (OKC)
14. Film Row (OKC)
15. Deep Deuce (OKC)

Some of these are fledgling and probably shouldn't be on the list, but they may grow in the future. What does everyone think? Am I leaving any districts off? Looking at the list, OKC's problem seems to be that it has too many districts for them to really grow.

Free market left the building a long time ago. The entire urban sprawl model was built on automobile subsidies.

Au contraire. To deny the attractiveness of suburban living to a vast market is as ignorant as not recognizing the importance of re-urbanization. The government didn't create sprawl, they just didn't control or discourage it well.

Au contraire. To deny the attractiveness of suburban living to a vast market is as ignorant as not recognizing the importance of re-urbanization. The government didn't create sprawl, they just didn't control or discourage it well.

Government did create sprawl. They built the roads that made it possible, provided the loans to returning soldiers to buy the homes, subsidized the auto industry to provide the cars, subsidized the oil companies for providing the fuel, and passed law after law to encourage more construction, and then passed more laws to decreased the density of that new development. One measure of the economy today used by the government is housing starts. If the sprawl isn't growing fast enough the economy appears to be doing worse.

In the last year I have read two great eye openers. The Road to Serfdom and Suburban Nation (actually I am still reading Suburban Nation). I highly recommend Suburban Nation to everyone interested in the subject.

In most places the government has made it illegal to rebuild the traditional neighborhood model - OKC included.

Wow! So we need to discredit the market and you want to believe the only reason people live in the suburbs is a government conspiracy? LOL. Everyone is stupid and don't know what they want except those who live in the inner core. What arrogance. If you discredited every industry the government has subsidized in part or whole you wouldn't have the air transportation business, the rail transportation business, streetcars, interstate highways, water systems, the oil industry, the banking industry, and on and on and on. It is a particularly stupid argument for core downtowners to use now because it is direct taxation and subsidies that have brought the core back to life. Like usual, people blame the government for all the things they don't like and yet ignore it when it benefits them or supports their way of thinking.

All I can say Rover is go to the library and read the book.

All I can say is use some common sense.

All I can say is use some common sense.

The author (a professional real estate developer) took a hundred pages to explain the influence government holds on development and you want me to explain it to you in a paragraph? If OKC isn't influencing development what does the planning department do all day? The reality, traditional town and neighborhood development has been made illegal. Imagine if CVS wanted to open a store in Deep Duece and fully expects that most of their customers are within walking distance of the store, do you think they would be allowed to build without providing any parking?

Of course there is influence. But to imply that everyone in the suburbs prefers to live there because the city influenced them too is just simply silly. To say that Nichols Hills exists because people with money only want big houses and yards because the government subsidized roads and highways 50 years ago is pretty naive. Some people like being in houses with yards and no neighbors right across the wall or above their ceiling.

Western is not spread out based on subsidies.

But the topic is that Western has great possibilities to organically grow into an interesting venue...and it does. Just don't look for Western south of Wilshire down to 36th or so to just dry up or re-locate there. It will have to grow from seeds, not be transplanted.

You would be surprised.

http://cybermars.mls.lib.ok.us/marsiis/cybermars.asp?WCI=Catalog&WCE=SimpleSearch

Shelf Number: 307.760973 D812s

I found this quote to be a very interesting insight.


During the height of automania, a zoologist observed that in animal herds excessive mobility was a sure sign of distress and asked whether this might not be true of his fellow human beings. Perhaps it was distress... but what historian can list all the causes that led twentieth-century man to race from highway to byway, tunnel to bridge? Suffice to say that he seemed to be constantly going from where he didn't want to be to where he didn't want to stay. - Percival Goodman, Communication (1960)

Do you ever wonder why people move on average every 6 years?

What in the world does that have to do with anything regarding urban development? Okay, herds of animals under stress move. And of course then, people = herds of animals. And then you are implying the source of the stress IS the mobility? Are you possibly saying people move around in the suburbs because the government creates stress by providing streets? Or that there is no stress in high density urban environments? Or that people in apartments move less than people in single family housing? Or that lawns cause stress? Or that living in Btown or shopping on lower Western is more stress free than living in Nichols Hills and shopping at Whole Foods? Or even that this writer has ANY credibility on the topic of how cities develop and the roll of government in altering people's natural desires?

Boy, I can tell you are not in either research or marketing. The argument is really grasping at straws.

Are you possibly saying people move around in the suburbs because the government creates stress by providing streets?

How many time have you seen two pedestrians flip each other off? Are police cracking down on sidewalk rage or aggressive walking? When is the last time you saw a 3 pedestrian pile-up? Are there overhead signs telling walkers which sidewalks to avoid? How about Weather and Walking on the 6's from the local New/Weather/Traffic radio station?

Wow. Now this thread is officially bizarre. Can we get back to talking about Western instead of the stress level of monkeys?

yes. The free market has completely disappeared. The strangest part is that my life seems exactly the same and i still make free market choices everyday. The sky is falling!

lol

I've said this before, but as far as vibrant, dense, walkable, organic urban entertainment districts go, Tulsa has had an edge for a long time, but OKC has some nice potential... This is how I'd rank them using the previous adjectives (not personal preference) as criteria:

1. Brookside (Tulsa)
2. Campus Corner (Norman)
3. Bricktown (OKC)
4. Cherry Street (Tulsa)
5. Western (OKC)
6. Blue Dome (Tulsa)
7. The Strip (Stillwater)
8. Brady (Tulsa)
9. Plaza Court (OKC)
10. Plaza District (OKC)
11. Paseo (OKC)
12. Main Street (Norman)
13. Automobile Alley (including 9th Street) (OKC)
14. Film Row (OKC)
15. Deep Deuce (OKC)

Some of these are fledgling and probably shouldn't be on the list, but they may grow in the future. What does everyone think? Am I leaving any districts off? Looking at the list, OKC's problem seems to be that it has too many districts for them to really grow.

An area that shouldn't be on the list now but certainly has the potential is Capitol Hill.