How many time have you seen two pedestrians flip each other off? Are police cracking down on sidewalk rage or aggressive walking? When is the last time you saw a 3 pedestrian pile-up? Are there overhead signs telling walkers which sidewalks to avoid? How about Weather and Walking on the 6's from the local New/Weather/Traffic radio station?


Well. . .for at least a couple of these (i.e. # 1 and # 3). . .try NYC, Chicago. . . any major/metro/urban area!! Granted, the results normally aren't as extreme as they can be in an automobile, but the "stress" is there nontheless.

Well. . .for at least a couple of these (i.e. # 1 and # 3). . .try NYC, Chicago. . . any major/metro/urban area!! Granted, the results normally aren't as extreme as they can be in an automobile, but the "stress" is there nontheless.

Yes, but that stress isn't caused by the walking.

Yes, but that stress isn't caused by the walking.

No, it is caused by running.....from the muggers and from dodging bullets. LOL

It is easy to idealize but there are issues in every neighborhood...urban or suburban. Thankfully, we have choices of where we want to live, shop, worship and get educated.

No, it is caused by running.....from the muggers and from dodging bullets. LOL

Yeah. . .a lot worse than being flipped off!! Plus. . .although it's been a few years. . . I remember my cousins in NYC telling me not to wear "real" neckwear jewelry on the streets of NYC. . .some folks were into doing the "snatch and grab".

More children are killed every year in car accidents. The most dangerous place for a child is a culdesac, which is ironic since most parents move there thinking it safer for children.

More children are killed every year in car accidents. The most dangerous place for a child is a culdesac, which is ironic since most parents move there thinking it safer for children.

Your preoccupation and hatred of suburban life is noted. You believe suburbs are evil. Something really traumatic must have happened to you in a suburb. Maybe you were forced to mow a lawn against your will. Or the quiet slowly drove you crazy. Perhaps you felt lonely in the extra space in the house. Maybe you weren't accepted in the country club of your choice. Or you could never make a putt. Maybe you ran out of gas (you definitely have car issues). Oooohhhh, the dread of it all. If the government hadn't forced all the robots to the suburbs what a utopian society we would have all living within 5 feet of each other. Hey, I have an idea for you...you should move to Shanghai. You would absolutely love it there. Lots of people in close proximity...city built up not out...lots of urban planning.

It isn't about size - it is about community. Here is something to think about. Read it if you want to.


THE VICTIMS OF SPRAWL
CUL-DE-SAC KIDS; SOCCER MOMS; BORED TEENAGERS;
STRANDED ELDERLY; WEARY COMMUTERS;
BANKRUPT MUNICIPALITIES; THE IMMOBILE POOR

Surplus wealth enables people to persist in building wasteful, inadequate communities and then compensate for the communities' failings by buying private vehicles and driving all over the metropolitan area in search of what ought to be available close to home.
-PHILIP LANGDON, A BETTER PLAGE TO LIVE (1994)

Aside from the real estate developer, who else is victimized by suburban sprawl? To some degree, almost everyone is. Most obvious are the 8o million Americans who are either too young, too old, or too poor to drive. But it doesn't stop there. Upon investigation, it is difficult to identify a segment of the population that does not suffer in some way from the lifestyle imposed by contemporary suburban development.

CUL-DE-SAC KIDS

Perhaps most worrisome is the situation facing the children of suburbia. In one of the great ironies of our era, the cul-de-sac suburbs, originally conceived as youth's great playground, are proving to be less than ideal for America's young.

That suburban life may be bad for children comes as a surprise. After all, most families move to the suburb’s precisely because they think it will be "good or the children." What do they mean by that? Better suburban schools—a phenomenon peculiar to the United States—are good for children. Big, safe, grassy fields to play on are also good for them. What is not so good for children, however, is the complete loss of autonomy they suffer in suburbia. In this environment where all activities are segregated and distances are measured on the odometer, a child's personal mobility extends no farther than the edge of the subdivision. Even the local softball field often exists beyond the child's independent reach.

The result is a new phenomenon: the 'cul-de-sac kid," the child who lives as a prisoner of a thoroughly safe and unchallenging environment. While this state of affairs may be acceptable, even desirable, through about age five, what of the next ten or twelve years? Dependent always on some adult to drive them around, children and adolescents are unable to practice at becoming adults. They cannot run so simple a household errand as picking up a carton of milk. They cannot bicycle to the toy store and spend their money on their own. They cannot drop in on their mother at work. Most cannot walk to school. Even pickup baseball games are a thing of the past, with parents now required to arrange car-pooling with near military precision, to transport the children at the appointed times.

Children are frozen in a form of infancy, utterly dependent on others, bereft of the ability to introduce variety into their own lives, robbed of the opportunity to make choices and exercise judgment. Typical suburban parents give their children an allowance, in order to empower them and encourage independence. "Feel free to spend it any way you like," they say. The child then says, "Thanks, Mom. When can you drive me to the mall?"


I guess my disdane for suburban sprawl is a bit like getting x-rays. An individual occurance of radiation isn't bad but getting a steady dose for 20 years is another story.

Just the Facts,,,

What urban mecca do you live in?

I am thinking you live in suburbia Jax - Florida?

Just the Facts,,,

What urban mecca do you live in?

I am thinking you live in suburbia Jax - Florida?

LOL - I am trapped in suburbia like everyone else. I lived two years in Healdton, OK and it was probably the most walkable community I have ever lived in and it is hardly an urban mecca. I don't know why people associate walkability with urban.

I've said this before, but as far as vibrant, dense, walkable, organic urban entertainment districts go, Tulsa has had an edge for a long time, but OKC has some nice potential... This is how I'd rank them using the previous adjectives (not personal preference) as criteria:

1. Brookside (Tulsa)
2. Campus Corner (Norman)
3. Bricktown (OKC)
4. Cherry Street (Tulsa)
5. Western (OKC)
6. Blue Dome (Tulsa)
7. The Strip (Stillwater)
8. Brady (Tulsa)
9. Plaza Court (OKC)
10. Plaza District (OKC)
11. Paseo (OKC)
12. Main Street (Norman)
13. Automobile Alley (including 9th Street) (OKC)
14. Film Row (OKC)
15. Deep Deuce (OKC)

Some of these are fledgling and probably shouldn't be on the list, but they may grow in the future. What does everyone think? Am I leaving any districts off? Looking at the list, OKC's problem seems to be that it has too many districts for them to really grow.

Actually Enid's town square has more going on than Film Row and Deep Deuce. Enid has a downtown baseball field, quaint restaurants, a few bars, they are working on adding to the convention center (downtown), they have an opera house, and are working on getting a hotel downtown.

Also downtown Bartlesville is doing pretty well. It isn't top 15 worthy, but making huge strides.

23rd Street in OKC has a chance to move up the list quickly with many of the buildings being up for sale.

Yeah. I definitely am not too familiar with Enid or Bartlesville, but it's good to hear. 23rd street should probably be just above Film Row at this point with the potential to move up quick...

LOL - I am trapped in suburbia like everyone else. I lived two years in Healdton, OK and it was probably the most walkable community I have ever lived in and it is hardly an urban mecca. I don't know why people associate walkability with urban.

Ok.

Well my point in starting this topic was because I was visiting the Western Ave district and while waling from one point to the other, I found it rather difficult. Next time you are in Okc you should visit this area and see for yourself.

I have since found out that this area is waiting on 2007 bonds before new sidewalks can be added. I really hope that this area receives more than only the sidewalks. I would like this area between 36th and 50th to benefit from an extensive makeover, with sidewalks, crosswalks, bicycle lanes, parallel parking, and extra wide patios for the businesses.

I find it a little odd that other Okc areas have received the items mentioned above and do not have nearly the amount of private investments already in place along Western Ave.

Ok.

Well my point in starting this topic was because I was visiting the Western Ave district and while waling from one point to the other, I found it rather difficult. Next time you are in Okc you should visit this area and see for yourself.

I have since found out that this area is waiting on 2007 bonds before new sidewalks can be added. I really hope that this area receives more than only the sidewalks. I would like this area between 36th and 50th to benefit from an extensive makeover, with sidewalks, crosswalks, bicycle lanes, parallel parking, and extra wide patios for the businesses.

I find it a little odd that other Okc areas have received the items mentioned above and do not have nearly the amount of private investments already in place along Western Ave.

I will be in town over Thanksgiving and I hope to atleast drive by the area we have been talking about. I agree that this area has great potential. I am still in negotiations with the wife on returning to OKC and opening a business and this area intrigues me for one of my ideas, but I don't want to have to build a parking lot. I want 95% of my customers to walk/bike/segway to me. The other 5% can park on the street.

Call a party when you get here.

LOL - I am trapped in suburbia like everyone else. I lived two years in Healdton, OK and it was probably the most walkable community I have ever lived in and it is hardly an urban mecca. I don't know why people associate walkability with urban.

Just curious, so I understand your perspective, what is the largest and most urban city you have lived in, and did you live in a true high density part of the city or in the suburbs? You must not live in OKC now, so where do you live now?

Rover - I live in Jacksonville, FL. The largest city I have lived in is Tampa (I lived in Atlanta 4 days a week for 3 years but since I was hardly every there on weekends it doesn't count). Your question illustrates a common misconception though. I constantly hear the words urban and largest used interchangeably. I can only guess that is because most people associate walkability with places like New York and Chicago. To me it is not the size of the town, it is the neighborhood.

From my driveway to the entrance of my subdivision is right at 1/2 mile. There is nothing between me and the entrance except more houses. Our subdivision has 400 homes, at 4 people per home totals 1,600 people. We don't have a book store, restaurant, Starbucks, grocery store, doctor office, or anything. To get those items I have to go at least 3 miles. 25 years ago I lived in Healdton, OK with a population of 1,500 people. I could easily walk to every restaurant in town, the school, the football stadium, the grocery store, the ice cream store, the five and dime (as my mom called it), the post office, the doctor’s office, and Healdton's lone cultural attraction - the Oil Field Museum.

Now you tell me which is more urban - my little corner of Jacksonville, FL or Healdton, OK.

For the record, the most urban town I have lived in is Chico, CA. Every amenity of any large city and you can get to 90% of it using nothing more than a bike.

My son lives in the Springfield neighborhood in Jacksonville, and it is very walkable. Whenever I go visit, we do the majority of our dining in restaurants within the neighborhood. He's very into supporting the area, and I see a lot of potential there. Despite the significant real estate bust in Florida, there are still houses being renovated, albeit at a far slower pace than when he purchased, and at a significantly lower price.

Facts. Thanks for the info. It helps me understand where you are coming from. Just curious though, why do you choose to live in the suburbs when you loathe them so badly? I know each of those cities has some pretty good urban areas.

I moved to the suburbs because that is what I thought I was supposed to do. Get married, buy a house in a subdivision, have kids, move to a culdesac, and then spend the rest of my life driving everywhere I want to go. This is the last subdivision I will ever live in. I don't choose to live it one now - I am trapped here.

Guess I am spoiled. I live in a nice suburban neighborhood here but have an apartment in New York City. I love both and at times don't love either one. LOL.

We live in a very nice subdivision as well and it is only 2.5 miles from world class shopping. But that 2.5 miles takes 15 minutes because of traffic and a lot of the people have serious road rage issues.

I moved to the suburbs because that is what I thought I was supposed to do. Get married, buy a house in a subdivision, have kids, move to a culdesac, and then spend the rest of my life driving everywhere I want to go. This is the last subdivision I will ever live in. I don't choose to live it one now - I am trapped here.

Freedom is a mere 1/2 mile away. Just don't look back. Oh, and use the car. If you use the bike, you might get tempted to turn around more easily. Sure it's going to be a costly escape, but lots of things worth doing carry a steep price. Maybe this one is yours. Certainly not for me to say, but you're clearly not happy where you are.

We live in a very nice subdivision as well and it is only 2.5 miles from world class shopping. But that 2.5 miles takes 15 minutes because of traffic and a lot of the people have serious road rage issues.

Why don't you sell and break even, you sound like you've done well financially otherwise.

Why don't you sell and break even, you sound like you've done well financially otherwise.

That is actually the plan. I am in the process of doing some remodel work so as soon as I am done the house is going on the market for exactly what we owe. If I can walk away even I will be happy. We aren't underwater but we have a lot of foreclosures around us. The wife and I are still debating on where to move to. I want to live in one of the neighborhoods around downtown OKC but she wants to live near downtown Norman.

The only thing that has really been keeping us here is the kids getting their black belts. They have been working on it for nearly 4 years and we don't want to stop when we are less than 4 months away of them completing it. I am going to show the little lady some of the areas around downtown in hopes of persuading her. She worked downtown in the late 80's at Liberty so she has always been afraid of living down there. I guess downtown wasn't great back then.

Downtown Norman is becoming a very cool place to live.

That is actually the plan. I am in the process of doing some remodel work so as soon as I am done the house is going on the market for exactly what we owe. If I can walk away even I will be happy. We aren't underwater but we have a lot of foreclosures around us. The wife and I are still debating on where to move to. I want to live in one of the neighborhoods around downtown OKC but she wants to live near downtown Norman.

The only thing that has really been keeping us here is the kids getting their black belts. They have been working on it for nearly 4 years and we don't want to stop when we are less than 4 months away of them completing it. I am going to show the little lady some of the areas around downtown in hopes of persuading her. She worked downtown in the late 80's at Liberty so she has always been afraid of living down there. I guess downtown wasn't great back then.

Eventually downtown Norman will be connected to downtown OKC via commuter rail. You could live in Norman and get to OKC in half an hour on the train.

Eventually downtown Norman will be connected to downtown OKC via commuter rail. You could live in Norman and get to OKC in half an hour on the train.

The older I get the less thrilled I am about 'eventually'. I would like to see Norman implement a local streetcar system, hopefully before commuter rail arrives.

In a few weeks I will start riding the rail to work, from Aurora to LoDo saving the mileage on my car from commuting into Downtown Denver. I will be so glad to get rid of the 40 mile round trip I currently have in Austin.

In a few weeks I will start riding the rail to work, from Aurora to LoDo saving the mileage on my car from commuting into Downtown Denver. I will be so glad to get rid of the 40 mile round trip I currently have in Austin.

I guess that means your trip to Denver was successful.

I guess that means your trip to Denver was successful.
Yes it was, the firm that I am going to work for is owned by a husband and wife team who are OU alums, he grew up in MWC and she in Tulsa. Her brother works there now and was at Benham in the Northwest Arkansas office a few years back (after I left the OKC office). I am staying in my friends condo in Aurora while he heads down to the South Pole until February, so everything just kind of fell in place for this. Hopefully we get the house here in Austin sold pretty quickly.

Modern zoning divides activities up. Housing goes over there, retail goes over here, commercial goes down there. And then it gets subdivided from there again. Housing less than 5 units per acre goes in that section, and more than 20 units per acres go in another section. It requires people to have to travel when their activity changes. If you want to eat dinner you have to leave the residential area and go the commercial district. If you want to buy something you have to go to a retail district. And heaven forbid you want to get a beer; you have to drive all over the place to get one of those. Plus, zoning is usually 2 dimensional even though we live in a 3D world. This creates nothing but single use one story buildings because for the most part, multi-use isn't allowed by default.

There should be 3 zones; rural, industrial, everything else. Of course, people will argue that a bar will exist next to a school or a strip club might infringe on a residential neighborhood. I say, let the consumers make that decision. If left to their own will, business will go where their customers are. It is because of segregated zoning that customers now have to go to where the business are; which is how we ended up with 6 lanes roads and 20 acre parking lots.

Each of these little commercial clusters should become the downtown for each neighborhood. Community banks, local diners, law office, insurance office, local clothiers, drug stores, groceries, etc... There shouldn't be a need to drive all over the place for these things, but segregated zoning requires it. Zoning isn't just land use, it also controls how many parking space you have to have, how big the parking spaces need to be, and how much landscaping is required. A bar should be able to exist in this section of Western and narry a parking spot should be required (in fact, we would probably be better off if there was no parking - make the drunks walk home).

Here is a link to all the zoning districts in OKC and what is allowed in each one.

http://gis.okc.gov/netapps/OnlineZoning/OnlineZoning/forms/ZoningDefinitions.pdf

You can access a zoning map here (just select the zoning option at the top of the map and then zoom in):
http://okcedis.com/

Incidently - this section of Western is zone C-4:


What this section of Western really needs is high density housing and professional services built on top of retail and resturants, but we are too busy worrying about where cars will park to do that.

You are spot on! I completely agree: Since when is it a bad thing to live and work in the same part of the city or even building!

Houston is the only major city in the US that has no zoning laws. Zoning is practiced in virtually every developed country in the world...but in 3rd world countries not so much. Having no laws for anything sounds ideal but it generally destroys as much as it allows.

Houston is the only major city in the US that has no zoning laws. Zoning is practiced in virtually every developed country in the world...but in 3rd world countries not so much. Having no laws for anything sounds ideal but it generally destroys as much as it allows.

Thats only half true. Houston has no formal city governed zoning code but they do have deed restrictions and covenants built into their residential and even some commercial areas. They also have ruthless HOA's and POA's that enforce these rules.

But I generally agree with your statement.

The Western Shopping District reminds me a bit of a smaller version of Brookside in Tulsa- I lived in Tulsa due to work for a few years while and I LOVED Brookside! Western needs a streetscape (consistent wide sidewalks, great landscaping and some sort of signage/lighting scheme).

I would like to see the residences on the west side of Western become a desirable area! There's a ton of potential in that area! One of the coolest parts of Brookside is to walk in the neighborhoods around it. There is a number of new homes and beautiful renovations in the area!

Crown Heights is already fantastic but also out of young professionals price range. Maybe the west side of Western can fill that entry level need $125,000-250,000 homes would be perfect!

The west side of Western is becoming more popular but there are still plenty of rundown houses that need to be rehabbed. It's actually really similar to Brookside where the west side of Peoria has smaller houses and more rentals while the east side is expensive homes with the few remaining small/rundown ones getting scraped and new houses built. I agree a consistent streetscape along Western would do wonders.

Whats actually on western doesn't compare to what brookside has to offer. Western has a long ways to go and is very spread out.

Whats actually on western doesn't compare to what brookside has to offer. Western has a long ways to go and is very spread out.

That's true, but Western has potential and Brookside is a perfect example for Western to aspire to...

I couldn't agree with you more Kilgore Trout. I am not familiar with the structure or existence of a Western District Association (although I know that they have one) but I do hope that they are active and use Brookside as inspiration of how great they can become. Personally I would LOVE to have Brookside in OKC! Its one of the only things that Tulsa has that is hands down better!

Question for those who are more familiar with OKC than I am: Does the area between Western and Classen, NW 36th and NW 50th have a nick name or area identity? Is this a good area, how is the crime, etc...

This is an area that I am not too familiar with but holds a great deal of interest for me. I like the location because it is so close to Western, Great access to the highways, Lots of untouched bungalows and you can still find steals!

With a new identity this area could be an exciting urban residential option for young professionals who cannot afford Crown Heights or Edgemere but want to enjoy Western shopping and restaurants and be a part of that community.

Thanks for any info about this area!

Question for those who are more familiar with OKC than I am: Does the area between Western and Classen, NW 36th and NW 50th have a nick name or area identity? Is this a good area, how is the crime, etc...

That area is referred to as Helm Historical District south of 39th and Helm Farm north of 39th. This is a great breakdown of all inner-city northside neighborhoods done by Spartan on his blog a little over a year ago: http://downtownontherange.blogspot.com/2010/08/city-of-neighborhoods.html According to him, Helm Historical district is a very solid neighborhood but Helm Farm is a little rough, not dangerous though (in fact he has it right in the middle in his rating system).

This is such a great resource! Thanks mcca7596!!

This is such a great resource! Thanks mcca7596!!

Of Course!

Question for those who are more familiar with OKC than I am: Does the area between Western and Classen, NW 36th and NW 50th have a nick name or area identity? Is this a good area, how is the crime, etc...

This is an area that I am not too familiar with but holds a great deal of interest for me. I like the location because it is so close to Western, Great access to the highways, Lots of untouched bungalows and you can still find steals!

With a new identity this area could be an exciting urban residential option for young professionals who cannot afford Crown Heights or Edgemere but want to enjoy Western shopping and restaurants and be a part of that community.

Thanks for any info about this area!

I actually live in this area and I think you nailed it with it being a great option for young professionals. It's super close to I-44 (and subsequently I-235). Western is a good area for young people, in addition to the bar scene thats at classen circle. Classen Curve, Penn Square, Bell-Isle shopping, 50-Penn make the shopping pretty good in this area. Chesapeake being right there, Valliance Bank tower, and 50-Penn also make business relatively close.

What I have noticed most about this area residentially is that it seems to be very street by street in terms of quality. In the 14 double-blocks (since Military technically divides everything between western and classen into two blocks) from 36th to 50th, there are probably 2 super nice streets (38th and 39th), a handful of average streets (like 46th which is pretty nice, but it helps that Horace Mann takes up the southeast block), some slightly run down streets like 47th and 45th. I can't remember which streets as a whole are really run down, there may not be any, but those houses sort of stick out. There are also some really rinky-dink houses in the area that are less than 750 sqft. In the area Probably 5% to 10% of the houses need to be tore down and rebuilt. Probably 40% to 60% need some serious renovation, but are solid enough structures that it is feasible. Maybe 15% to 25% need minor renovation, and then 5% to 10% are okay just like they are now.

Owning a house in the area, I'd love for all you to come buy it up and make it all nice and purty and increase my home value for me. TIA!! ;)

That area is referred to as Helm Historical District south of 39th and Helm Farm north of 39th. This is a great breakdown of all inner-city northside neighborhoods done by Spartan on his blog a little over a year ago: http://downtownontherange.blogspot.com/2010/08/city-of-neighborhoods.html According to him, Helm Historical district is a very solid neighborhood but Helm Farm is a little rough, not dangerous though (in fact he has it right in the middle in his rating system).

By the way, Platemaker should get some credit because he pointed me toward a map he made with all the neighborhood names, I just did the neighborhood/corridor health assessments (which the City of OKC hasn't done in FOREVER). The Helm Historic District is basically the "38th Street Promenade" which seemed very solid to me. I should have included a disclaimer that the only two things I didn't consider in my assessments were the school ratings in the neighborhood and crime reports, as those are also readily accessible, I just don't really care about the family stuff (although I at least imagine crime-neighborhood health should have a strong correlation).

Looks like there have been a few new stores added to the Western Ave in the 40th area. Also I see that The Wedge is now open for breakfast.

I had dinner at Sushi Neko last night and the traffic around the Western Avenue District was really impressive. I see this area continuing to grow. I have said it before but I see a ton of infill opportunities and also remodeling opportunities in the housing that surrounds this area! I hope to start a project this summer.

Nice little infill/reuse project to replace old tire shop and garage near 36th & Western with a floral shop:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/36western1.jpg

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2684/R048686000001uA.jpg

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/searches/sketches/picfile/2684/R048686000002uA.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/36western2.jpg

Thanks for the info Pete. I love the detaied maps. I live in this area and it will be a breath of fresh air to see the old tire shop go.

By the way, Platemaker should get some credit because he pointed me toward a map he made with all the neighborhood names, I just did the neighborhood/corridor health assessments (which the City of OKC hasn't done in FOREVER). The Helm Historic District is basically the "38th Street Promenade" which seemed very solid to me. I should have included a disclaimer that the only two things I didn't consider in my assessments were the school ratings in the neighborhood and crime reports, as those are also readily accessible, I just don't really care about the family stuff (although I at least imagine crime-neighborhood health should have a strong correlation).

I think it's actually called 38th Street Preservation now.

Is any of this area subject to Historical Preservation Issues if you build new construction or remodel a home within the area?

Yes, especially on the east side of Western, as Crown Heights is specifically HP zoning. 38th is not on the National Register however it is a target of local preservation efforts, so that would also certainly be an issue (even if there lacks an HP framework, the planning department is at least competent enough to make that a primary consideration). However I think someone would have a lot more leeway on 37th or 39th west of Western.

Or at least that's what I can justify in my mind, which almost never is the way things actually work lol...

Haha Spartan - I feel the same way. My justifications almost never are the way things go.

I was only wondering because I have considered new construction around this area. I have specifically looked at vacant lots of NW 43rd just east of Western across from Will Rogers Parking and NW 40th between Western and Classen.

The structure would not be HP friendly so I want to avoid those regulations at all costs!

Between Western and Classen should be fine. I also think you'd be surprised, as the Crown Heights 4-plex (a development that was welcomed by the neighborhood) is somewhat modern, though it also has a good HP component as well. Crown Heights HP seeks to preserve a very special style that lies somewhere between Art Deco and mid-century modern, so I don't know that you're going to specifically have zoning issues as long as you're not tearing down anything of significance.

So, I drive through 36th and Western 1-3 times a week for various reasons and hadn't noticed the perpendicular signage on the retail shops. Have I been missing this for a very long time, or is this a recent development I overlooked? I love perpendicular signage (e.g. what's used in AA). I hate having to be right in front of the store to know what it is. Not that these signs are particularly readable from a great distance, but still, a step in the right direction...

1233

Must be recent.

Looks very nice.

Remind me who the owner of this is? He/she needs to get moved over to the good list, as all of the gradual improvements that have been made have been somewhat unexpected. This honestly was not a very nice property 3-4 years ago.

The cock of th walk sign has been up for well over a year

So, I drive through 36th and Western 1-3 times a week for various reasons and hadn't noticed the perpendicular signage on the retail shops. Have I been missing this for a very long time, or is this a recent development I overlooked? I love perpendicular signage (e.g. what's used in AA). I hate having to be right in front of the store to know what it is. Not that these signs are particularly readable from a great distance, but still, a step in the right direction...

1233

That is definitely new signage. I happened to go by today and saw them working on those buildings. The signs are very readable as you drive by.

Glad to know these are in fact new and not something I had been missing for awhile. Thanks everybody!