I think the DFW and OKC weather is almost identical. I'm guessing the average high temperature is one degree warmer in DFW than in OKC.

Now, that arctic region that is Tulsa I might agree with.

We get bad ice storms and some real snow, and both are quite rare in DFW.

I think the DFW and OKC weather is almost identical. I'm guessing the average high temperature is one degree warmer in DFW than in OKC.

I think there are several other reasons why Oklahoma/OKC will likely never be "right there" with Texas in terms of growth.

The MSA numbers are really much more important. Those incorporate all the areas around a city, and OKC will always fare less well in those metrics because most cities are much smaller geographically.

As you can see, our MSA has been growing at about 1-1.5% per annum, and that trend seems to be continuing:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okcmsa032724a.jpg

the current rate of grow projected for the rest of the decade .. and onward

2030 1,596,778
2040 1,788,391
2050 2,002,998
2060 2,243,358
2070 2,512561

We get bad ice storms and some real snow, and both are quite rare in DFW.

I think our snow and ice occurrences are very similar. The only concession I might make is that DFW becomes more paralyzed by ice, but that is probably due to their sheer size and lack of icy road treating equipment.

I like the sustainable growth. Nashville, DFW, Austin, Portland, all had/have hyper-growth, and their infrastructure has failed them. OKC may not have explosive growth annually, but it is growing, and in a sustainable way that makes the future not look like a stop and go madhouse with super inflation.

I think our snow and ice occurrences are very similar. The only concession I might make is that DFW becomes more paralyzed by ice, but that is probably due to their sheer size and lack of icy road treating equipment.

One complicating factor I could see for winter weather in DFW is their junctures tend to have more bridges levels, bridges spanning longer distances, and have higher percentage of those bridge sections with elevation change or curves. People may complain about cloverleafs remaining when ODOT upgrades a juncture, but they should be more resistant to winter weather than configurations with more flyovers. Though on average having longer traffic rush windows probable does not help with that either.

Meteorologist and weather data nerd here. For anyone interested --

For the 1973-2024 period, OKC averaged 70.7 hours of snow being reported and 15.1 hours of freezing rain being reported annually, with an average annual snowfall total of 9.7 inches. For the same period, DFW averaged only 17.8 hours of snow being reported and 5.5 hours of freezing rain, with an average annual snowfall of 2.6 inches. Heavy snow was rare at both locations. Unfortunately, ice pellets are harder to automatically detect so the record statistics aren't as robust.

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In addition to precipitation, during the winter months, the median difference between OKC and DFW's temperature is -8F, and the median difference in their windchill is -10F.

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It is ultimately subjective (the winter weather statistics are both sites would get a laugh from folks in the upper Midwest after all), but I think there's a solid case to be made that the ice/snow/cold in OKC is appreciably worse than it is in DFW, even if it is isn't particularly bad at either location. It isn't uncommon for cold fronts to make it down to the Red River area but not clear the metroplex.

^ Look at the USDA Hardiness Map. Dallas is in Zone 8 while most of Oklahoma is Zone 7, more similar to Tennessee/Kentucky while Dallas is more like Georgia and NC.

Exactly. All grew by less percentage, but by more people.

No, the chart shows that Las Vegas and Kansas City grew by less in number of people also. That makes me wonder about accuracy.

No, the chart shows that Las Vegas and Kansas City grew by less in number of people also. That makes me wonder about accuracy.

You're right. My bad. I must have assumed it'd be more based on those markets, but didn't actually look. Not smart on my part.

And even though it was slightly more people, the Denver one actually surprises me the most. I'm less familiar with KC and LV to some extent, but Denver seems like it adds 18k a month. lol

The humidity in the Metroplex is killer in the summer compared to OKC.

Where we might get 20 days a year at or over 100 degrees, they get much more. My relatives in Ft Worth complain all the time about it. Last summer it was so hot and dry that several houses in their neighborhood, including theirs had major cracking and foundation problems from it.

You're right. My bad. I must have assumed it'd be more based on those markets, but didn't actually look. Not smart on my part.

And even though it was slightly more people, the Denver one actually surprises me the most. I'm less familiar with KC and LV to some extent, but Denver seems like it adds 18k a month. lol

Denver used to, it's now bleeding people due to high costs and a host of other problems.

Denver used to, it's now bleeding people due to high costs and a host of other problems.

With the big shift toward work from home, it seems all high-priced cities are starting to see a lot of outflow.

I've said for a long time I thought OKC could be the next boomtown (following Seattle, Portland, Phoenix, Vegas, Austin, Atlanta, Charlotte) and we just haven't got there yet, as in 2% annual growth. Maybe that's a good thing.

Oklahoma Population 2024 - 4,088,377 - https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/oklahoma-population

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Population - 2024 - 706,576 - https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/oklahoma-city-ok-population

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Population - 2023 - 1,477,926 - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OKCPOP

Denver used to, it's now bleeding people due to high costs and a host of other problems.

Its far from bleeding people but the official growth rate has slowed.

You’re wasting your time in thoughtfully replying to an avowed and demonstrated OKC hater, but to be clear he’s not looking through Green Country glasses. I would encourage anyone considering engaging with this poster to (I’m being very serious here) click on his profile (https://www.okctalk.com/member.php?u=31700) and read through a few pages of his posts. They speak for themselves. He has two types of posts on this board:


Promoting projects happening in San Antonio (as a reader I appreciate those and find them interesting…I assume he lives in SA)
Throwing cold water (and worse) on anything happening or being discussed in a positive manner regarding OKC

I’m not kidding about this…just go check his history. Let me know when you find a single one speaking positively regarding activity in OKC. His negativity toward OKC is predictable to the point of being cartoonish. And his demeanor to other posters has also become increasingly insulting and abusive, often without provocation. Again, go check the posts. It’s in black and white.

Uh, yeah. You’re weird.

What?

LOL.

OK

What about what I said was funny? What was incorrect? Care to provide something of substance instead of whatever that was.

Weather has taken a huge priority in most people's QOL. Especially since the internet easily connects us to everything. If OKC had better weather, we would be right there with TX, but unfortunately winters here are still pretty bad relative to the TX cities.

This has to be a troll post.

this has to be a troll post.

the troll of the riverwalk has spoken!!!!

This has to be a troll post.

Could you share why you believe Anonymous is being a troll?

Could you share why you believe Anonymous is being a troll?

1. The hacker group known as 4chan.
2.
3. Profit

1. The hacker group known as 4chan.
2.
3. Profit

lol

2023 population estimates released today puts OKC's population at 702,767 - a growth of 7,589 from 2022.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/subcounty-population-estimates.html

Wow impressive! At that rate our population will near the 800k in a decade.

Edmond 98,103 should surpass 100k when 2024 results are released.

1. OKC: 702,767 +7,589
2. Tulsa: 411,894 +146
3. Norman: 130,406 +3,479
4. Broken Arrow: 119,194 +1,327
5. Edmond: 98,103 +1,764
6. Lawton: 90,245 -604
7. Moore: 63,470 +270
8. Midwest City: 58,086 +89
9. Enid: 50,577 +45
10. Stillwater: 49,525 +430

Nice, also looks like we were the 8th fastest growing large city in America, based on numeric change!

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1. OKC: 702,767 +7,589
2. Tulsa: 411,894 +146
3. Norman: 130,406 +3,479
4. Broken Arrow: 119,194 +1,327
5. Edmond: 98,103 +1,764
6. Lawton: 90,245 -604
7. Moore: 63,470 +270
8. Midwest City: 58,086 +89
9. Enid: 50,577 +45
10. Stillwater: 49,525 +430

Wow Norman added 3400 people? Wild.

Wow Norman added 3400 people? Wild.

That data is incorrect for Norman. Norman grew by 467.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/05/17/oklahoma-city-population-top-20-us-census-data-growth/73729737007/

1. OKC: 702,767 +7,589
2. Tulsa: 411,894 +146
3. Norman: 130,406 +3,479
4. Broken Arrow: 119,194 +1,327
5. Edmond: 98,103 +1,764
6. Lawton: 90,245 -604
7. Moore: 63,470 +270
8. Midwest City: 58,086 +89
9. Enid: 50,577 +45
10. Stillwater: 49,525 +430

Lawton, unfortunately, was the only loser. Enid staying ahead of Stillwater. Stillwater got most of its increase from growing enrollment at OSU. Stillwater as a declining blue collar college town continues to have difficulty attracting industry. Anybody wants to setup manufacturing in the closed Armstrong plant? Inability to attract industry may be a characteristic of small college towns. Manhattan, KS so much as lost a bit of population in 2023.

That data is incorrect for Norman. Norman grew by 467.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/05/17/oklahoma-city-population-top-20-us-census-data-growth/73729737007/

Oops sorry about that. The 2023 total was correct but the numerical change was only +467.

1. OKC: 702,767 +7,589
2. Tulsa: 411,894 +146
3. Norman: 130,406 +3,479
4. Broken Arrow: 119,194 +1,327
5. Edmond: 98,103 +1,764
6. Lawton: 90,245 -604
7. Moore: 63,470 +270
8. Midwest City: 58,086 +89
9. Enid: 50,577 +45
10. Stillwater: 49,525 +430

World Population Review has estimates for 2024. Shows Tulsa losing.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/cities/oklahoma

World Population Review has estimates for 2024. Shows Tulsa losing.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/cities/oklahoma

They are incorrect. This is the raw Census data: https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/popest/2020s-total-cities-and-towns.html

Tulsa pretty much has to grow with infill as it is mostly built-out in developed areas. Areas like NW Tulsa and far E Tulsa are the only greenfield areas left within city limits, and both have their own issues that limit development (though that may be changing in E Tulsa)

"And with our commitments to initiatives like MAPS 4 and our new arena, we know that this journey will only continue."--Mayor David Holt

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNuNL4gWwAA0bLt?format=jpg&name=small


15. Charlotte, NC - 911,311 (+4.20%)
16. Indianapolis, IN - 879,293 (−0.94%)
17. San Francisco, CA - 808,988 (−7.43%)
18. Seattle, WA - 755,078 (+2.45%)
19. Denver, CO - 716,577 (+0.15%)
20. Oklahoma City - 702,767 (+3.19%)
21. Nashville, TN - 687,788 (−0.24%)
22. Washington DC - 678,972 ( −1.53%)
23. El Paso, TX - 678,958 (+0.02%)
24. Las Vegas, NV - 660,929 (+2.96%)
25. Boston, MA - 653,833 (−3.23%)

Predicted that Oklahoma City would take Nashville in 2020; OKC will surge ahead of Denver in 20230.

48. Tulsa, OK - 411,894 (−0.28%)
222. Norman, OK - 130,046 (+1.58%)
247. Broken Arrow, OK - 119,194 (+4.98%)
UR. Edmond, OK - 98,103 (+3.25
UR. Lawton, OK - 90,381 (- 0.7%)

Predicted that Oklahoma City would take Nashville in 2020; OKC will surge ahead of Denver in 20230.


I doubt many of us will be alive to see okc overtake Denver in 20,230.

I doubt many of us will be alive to see okc overtake Denver in 20,230.

Speak for yourself. Got my pod reserved next to Walt Disney and Ted Williams.

OKC may also have a chance at not only Denver but SF, if they keep losing and if OKC can get a boost in the next 5 years (which is what I expect). SEA will be a stretch since they're (we) are also growing at a clip.

OKC may also have a chance at not only Denver but SF, if they keep losing and if OKC can get a boost in the next 5 years (which is what I expect). SEA will be a stretch since they're (we) are also growing at a clip.

San Francisco lost 65,672 residents form 2000-2023, they currently have 808,988, a drop from 873,965 (2000). Seattle is a safe bet to remain ahead of OKC..

Denver slightly moved the needle with a +0.15% growth rate to 716,577; 13,810 more residents than OKC.

OKC will be the 18th largest city come 2030.

One of OKC's biggest assets, in terms of population growth, is also a huge weakness for urban/density lovers. OKC has tons of land they can still develop with single-family hones and neighborhoods. Multi-family isn't as needed, due to availability of land.

San Francisco lost 65,672 residents form 2000-2023, they currently have 808,988, a drop from 873,965 (2000). Seattle is a safe bet to remain ahead of OKC..

Denver slightly moved the needle with a +0.15% growth rate to 716,577; 13,810 more residents than OKC.

OKC will be the 18th largest city come 2030.

Denver is almost 100% built up. It can pretty much only grow vertically now. Aurora will see significant growth vertically and to the east.

This is probably a time where we will see our city take advantage of downtown land, especially since a site has been picked for the new arena. The City and the ownership wants to see the arena completion moved up one year.

With all the talk about a supertall where the odds are that it will never get built, maybe we'll see more investments in housing. Can't ignore IMO the conservative numbers that suggest Oklahoma City continues to be the nucleus of our state's growth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5XLdifrZLY

The US Cities that have Lost the Most Population Ranked


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpYgGfX4TcI

"And with our commitments to initiatives like MAPS 4 and our new arena, we know that this journey will only continue."--Mayor David Holt

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNuNL4gWwAA0bLt?format=jpg&name=small


15. Charlotte, NC - 911,311 (+4.20%)
16. Indianapolis, IN - 879,293 (−0.94%)
17. San Francisco, CA - 808,988 (−7.43%)
18. Seattle, WA - 755,078 (+2.45%)
19. Denver, CO - 716,577 (+0.15%)
20. Oklahoma City - 702,767 (+3.19%)
21. Nashville, TN - 687,788 (−0.24%)
22. Washington DC - 678,972 ( −1.53%)
23. El Paso, TX - 678,958 (+0.02%)
24. Las Vegas, NV - 660,929 (+2.96%)
25. Boston, MA - 653,833 (−3.23%)

Predicted that Oklahoma City would take Nashville in 2020; OKC will surge ahead of Denver in 20230.

48. Tulsa, OK - 411,894 (−0.28%)
222. Norman, OK - 130,046 (+1.58%)
247. Broken Arrow, OK - 119,194 (+4.98%)
UR. Edmond, OK - 98,103 (+3.25
UR. Lawton, OK - 90,381 (- 0.7%)



Can you make this same chart for the metro area population. That would show the real energy and growth. As some on here point out, some cities are already pretty built out and the growth comes more in the burbs. We SHOULD be growing strongly in the city itself as it is so big and there is so much relatively inexpensive open land to develop.

Context is important.

Oklahomas population has grown by 42,000 in the past year, and by over 130,000 since the 2020 census.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/OK

Oklahomas population has grown by 42,000 in the past year, and by over 130,000 since the 2020 census.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/OK

Are we able to pull Oklahoma City estimates from this data. Oklahoma City has a 2024 population of 709,330 an increase 26,225, which is a 4.2% increase from the 2020 census .

I’ve finally come to terms with the fact I can lo longer afford to live in Oklahoma City. I’m going to have to likely move elsewhere. All this time I figured I would raise a family, grow old and retire here. Now that’s no longer the case the cost are too great. Groceries are too high and we can’t even afford to do most things anymore. Not even a meal out at a casual restaurant. I want to live a life where I can do more than just work all the time to make ends meet. I think it’s time to go rural.

I wish they would go back to including Pottawatamie County in the OKC MSA. Lincoln County has around 35,000 and Pott County has about 75,000. Although, they include Pott County in the CSA. I believe the CSA is nearing 1.6 million.

I’ve finally come to terms with the fact I can lo longer afford to live in Oklahoma City. I’m going to have to likely move elsewhere. All this time I figured I would raise a family, grow old and retire here. Now that’s no longer the case the cost are too great. Groceries are too high and we can’t even afford to do most things anymore. Not even a meal out at a casual restaurant. I want to live a life where I can do more than just work all the time to make ends meet. I think it’s time to go rural.

Where would you go?

OKC still has one of the lowest costs of living nationwide, right? You could move to one of the smaller outlier towns, but those are mostly bedroom communities with one or even both parents driving back into OKC for their job.

As for truly rural, you could move, but recent history shows that for any need beyond a Dollar General store, you are pretty much forced to drive back into a major metro area for in-depth healthcare, entertainment, variety of dining that isn't just fast food, even employment opportunities.

I have friends and family from the small town I grew up in that come to OKC or Tulsa at least two to three times a month just for cheaper groceries at a place like Crest compared to their local grocery store that can't compete with volume pricing, they will do doctor visits because their town doesn't have the specialist for their needs, catch a movie at a place like Showbiz or AMC because their local movie theatre in town closed during covid, shop at a place like Costco or Sam's because their town doesn't have one, and dine at one of the many restaurants along Memorial Road before heading back home.

Not unique to Oklahoma, but small towns everywhere are slowly drying up as there are less and less opportunities in those communities for jobs or meaningful prospects for younger generations to remain.

It's certainly sad to see rural America slow decline in the past 20 or so years, but the current economic landscape favors heavily populated areas that are growing.

Man, I’m a city boy for sure but I also have a strong streak of rural DNA. Heck, most everyone living in Tulsa or OKC is one generation or two at best from living on a farm. I had many, MANY friends and family who lived and worked in truly rural places. I grew up in the city, but I spent LOTS of time on and around farms and truly small towns.

But that was then, this is now. When I was a kid small towns still had grocery stores, hardware stores, lumberyards, department stores, men’s stores, ladies stores, shoe stores, furniture stores, full-service garages, drug stores and pharmacies. Now most of those places are lucky to have a dollar store. I can’t imagine living a truly rural small town these days.

I’ve finally come to terms with the fact I can lo longer afford to live in Oklahoma City. I’m going to have to likely move elsewhere. All this time I figured I would raise a family, grow old and retire here. Now that’s no longer the case the cost are too great. Groceries are too high and we can’t even afford to do most things anymore. Not even a meal out at a casual restaurant. I want to live a life where I can do more than just work all the time to make ends meet. I think it’s time to go rural.

Unfortunately, costs are going up everywhere. Pros and cons rural vs urban. Might find cheaper housing in the country, but fuel cost might be considerable higher.

Man, I’m a city boy for sure but I also have a strong streak of rural DNA. Heck, most everyone living in Tulsa or OKC is one generation or two at best from living on a farm. I had many, MANY friends and family who lived and worked in truly rural places. I grew up in the city, but I spent LOTS of time on and around farms and truly small towns.

But that was then, this is now. When I was a kid small towns still had grocery stores, hardware stores, lumberyards, department stores, men’s stores, ladies stores, shoe stores, furniture stores, full-service garages, drug stores and pharmacies. Now most of those places are lucky to have a dollar store. I can’t imagine living a truly rural small town these days.

You summed it up well. I grew up small town Oklahoma with those amenities and now all that is left is a shadow of what was from 20-30 years ago. The Walmart is going strong, but the other grocery stores that remain struggle and are frozen in time in regards to appearance from 1989. The lone hardware store that remains is more for those that stayed behind to reminisce and drink coffee to share the politics of the day, and all the department stores (Anthonys, JCPenney, Bealls/Stage, and local clothing stores) have all closed to be replaced by stores like Big Lots or Ollie's and Family Dollar/Dollar General stores.

In regards to population growth for OKC, people are moving and staying here because there is "life" here, opportunities for meaningful employment, quality healthcare compared to the rural areas of the state, new housing, and should things go south with a job, you have an easier time to find something in your field in OKC, versus a specialty business that may shut its doors as the lone major employer in the small town.

I’ve finally come to terms with the fact I can lo longer afford to live in Oklahoma City. I’m going to have to likely move elsewhere. All this time I figured I would raise a family, grow old and retire here. Now that’s no longer the case the cost are too great. Groceries are too high and we can’t even afford to do most things anymore. Not even a meal out at a casual restaurant. I want to live a life where I can do more than just work all the time to make ends meet. I think it’s time to go rural.

Then check out Enid. It's not growing much so there should be less inflationary pressure there while big enough to offer possibly enough amenities along with jobs. Otherwise, find a higher paying job.

As for me, I'm just a devoted homebody, and never really wanted to move anywhere else once I became an adult eventually getting a good paying job and career.

Enid will have stuff for a small town due to Vance. It's not bad. If you are interested, my family has some rental properties up there that will probably fit your budget.