As I recall Mercury Marine left "right to work" Oklahoma and consolidated at the unionized facility in Wisconsin.

True, but I heard that Mercury was too reluctant to move its HQ to Stillwater and lose quick access to Lake Winnebago to test its boat motors. Lake Winnebago is the largest lake entirely within the state of Wisconsin. Probably incentives were better to remain in WI. Around 2,500 work at Mercury Marine HQ.

And other rural areas continue to empty out. What is the answer for these areas? Small towns continue to drop population. Rural hospitals continue to struggle. There needs to be a plan of some kind for rural areas. Maybe even some of the lower population counties need to consolidate? Some areas had lots of some farms that are and were not viable. ARe larger ones viable? I think something needs to be done to address rural issues. my 3 cents. Sorry inflation.

The answer is immigration.

How immigrants are reviving small towns (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/article/How-immigrants-are-reviving-small-towns-9205983.php)
Immigrants Bring Rejuvenation to Many Small Towns (https://dailyyonder.com/immigrants-bring-rejuvenation-to-many-small-towns/2015/10/28/)

OKC named among 'most affordable places to buy a new home' https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/the-most-affordable-places-to-buy-a-new-home/

The answer is immigration.

How immigrants are reviving small towns (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/article/How-immigrants-are-reviving-small-towns-9205983.php)
Immigrants Bring Rejuvenation to Many Small Towns (https://dailyyonder.com/immigrants-bring-rejuvenation-to-many-small-towns/2015/10/28/)

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.

I'm a big believer in family but you have to provide for those kids. Many small towns that I am aware of don't have the level of jobs and economic opportunities necessary to support a family. In a lot of small towns, Wal Mart is the biggest employer.

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.

Why is that the better answer?

I'm a big believer in family but you have to provide for those kids. Many small towns that I am aware of don't have the level of jobs and economic opportunities necessary to support a family. In a lot of small towns, Wal Mart is the biggest employer.

Then you go to war with Walmart. Don't give them business. Support the local grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy. I understand how difficult this is, but you have to fight. Walmart and most every other giant corporation hates you and your way of life. They have taken over small town Oklahoma and everyone seems to be ok with sending all their paycheck to NW Arkansas and eventually China

Why is that the better answer?

Seriously? Immigrants over multi-generation Americans? Ok

Then you go to war with Walmart. Don't give them business. Support the local grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy. I understand how difficult this is, but you have to fight. Walmart and most every other giant corporation hates you and your way of life. They have taken over small town Oklahoma and everyone seems to be ok with sending all their paycheck to NW Arkansas and eventually China

My point in my comment was not meant to be about Wal Mart. I merely meant that it's unfortunate that a low-pay, limited upward mobility company is the largest employer in many small towns. Some small towns still have local pharmacies, some still have local hardware stores, I bet many of them do not. But I was only using Wal Mart as an example.

Why do people leave small towns when they graduate high school? Because they want options for their lives that aren't there in small towns. Many want to work in industries that don't exist in small towns. Many want to go to college. End of story. It would be great if every small town had a motivated chamber of commerce or a large group of spirited entrepreneurs, but sheer numbers prevents a lot of that. Sadly, I just don't see a lot of future for many of these places.

And other rural areas continue to empty out. What is the answer for these areas? Small towns continue to drop population. Rural hospitals continue to struggle. There needs to be a plan of some kind for rural areas. Maybe even some of the lower population counties need to consolidate? Some areas had lots of some farms that are and were not viable. ARe larger ones viable? I think something needs to be done to address rural issues. my 3 cents. Sorry inflation.

There really isn't any foolproof plan that could be implemented that would change the trends of small towns in Oklahoma. The only thing we cold do is make sure these communities have access to decent healthcare and educational opportunities so they can stay somewhat competitive when trying to attract or retain population. it doesn't appear that the state (or the people living in these communities) are very interested in doing this so these areas will continue to waste away to nothing.

As mentioned, an increase in immigration could also be a lifeline for these dying communities. Immigration has already tremendously helped revive towns like Guymon.

Currently our population growth in the Oklahoma City area is manageable.

From 2010-2020, five counties from the Greater Oklahoma City Region were among the top six fastest-growing counties in Oklahoma:
Canadian, Logan, McClain, Cleveland, and Oklahoma Counties.

Road upgrades & Interstate expansion-upgrades will be key to Oklahoma sustained growth.

22. Oklahoma City - 681,054 - 579,999 (2020 - 2010 - 10 year increase) 101,055
42. Oklahoma City MSA - 1,425,695 - 1,252,987 (2020 - 2010 - 10 year increase) 172,708
28. State of Oklahoma - 3,959,353 - 3,751,351 (2020 - 2010) - 10 year increase) 208,002


Oklahoma City MSA Population accounted for 83 % of Oklahoma population growth


A true 'win' for Oklahoma.

and Oklahoma City itself accounted for half of the state's growth.

Seriously? Immigrants over multi-generation Americans? Ok

He asked a legitimate question. Perhaps try giving a legitimate answer or make a legitimate attempt at an argument—because you might have a good one— but as of now your answer isn’t persuasive.

By the way, I recently saw a poll that shows citizen immigrants are the “most proud” of any group to be Americans and the biggest believers in the American dream. I’d be happy to have more immigrants in Oklahoma, boosting our population, our culture, and our economic opportunity.

I agree immigration is the best answer. As much as you try to convince young people that small town living is great for them, they will always be drawn to big city life for the thrill of amenities and events that small towns can't ever offer. Recall when YOU were a young person, did you stay in the small town you were born in?

Immigrants, however, are more likely to desire to plant roots wherever they are accepted. Why do we not have a population boom in W Oklahoma is beyond me given the economic opportunities tend to be acceptable for Hispanic immigrants and others. It's something Oklahoma should look into because as much as OKC grows (and definitely will continue to be the main growth engine) the state can't depend on that - we still are not officially at 4m in 2020 = MIND BLOWING to me, and it is due to the decline of the rural west. That means just as much as OKC added, the rural OK decreased and that's alarming.

One other note - there are folks who desire the lifestyle W Oklahoma offers. They are tired of places like FL and AZ where population increases has brought a liberal, dense society and would love the space that W Oklahoma offers. Again - this is something the state should look into; not only promote OKC as the emerging metropolitan city of America, but also promote W Oklahoma for it's conservative appeal for those looking to get away from it all and for immigrants looking to settle roots in America. ... Add feeder jobs and you at least stem the outward flow and the state grows with OKC's continued boom.

Seriously? Immigrants over multi-generation Americans? Ok

Immigrants are just the ancestors of future multi-generation Americans.

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.

There are a million reasons why western Oklahoma is losing population. Young people not being focused on the importance of family and having kids is not one of them.

Even immigrants would prefer to live in the city if they could. They chose to live in rural areas because of lower cost of living in the nearest cities are crazy high. Cost of living isn't as high in OKC or Tulsa which doesn't benefit rural Oklahoma. That second article posted upthread is looking at east coast rural areas, what does it look like closer to central states?

I've made this point before, but it seems like half the people I've met in OKC since moving back are from Elk City, Carnegie, Guthrie, Perry, El Reno, Enid, Lawton not to mention outlying areas like Harrah, Noble, Purcell, Kingfisher, etc. The guy that owned my house before me was from Bokchito and worked for the state.

It seems a lot of OKC's growth has been at the expense of small towns in Oklahoma.

Everyone wants to talk about isolated cases of people moving here from other states, but that number has to be dwarfed by moves from the more rural areas of OK.

Nearly two-thirds of Oklahoma counties saw their populations decrease over the past decade, losing a combined 69,000 residents, an analysis of Oklahoma’s U.S. Census Bureau data shows.

The remaining counties — predominantly urban and suburban — saw their populations grow by about 277,000 people

But while the state saw a net gain of about 208,000 in the past decade, nearly half of all Oklahoma residents reported living in just four counties — Canadian, Cleveland, Oklahoma, and Tulsa.

https://www.enidnews.com/news/local_news/census-migration-from-rural-oklahoma-to-cities-continues/article_a9c06d44-fc8b-11eb-8f98-4742e88e6a57.html

I moved to OKC with my wife to attend college with the intent of moving back to Ardmore - my hometown. After about 2 years of living here, we decided we wanted to stay.

Seriously? Immigrants over multi-generation Americans? Ok

I never said that. I fact I offered no opinion whatsoever. I asked a straightforward, honest question. You could have answered it any way you liked. You chose projection. That’s a tell.

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.
And how does that help economic development in small towns? More kids without more jobs and better education is why they are losing population in the first place. Has nothing to do with procreation and love of family.

I think the article hit on something that many of us might have missed but probably should really think about - rural broadband internet access.

If folks had a choice to work remotely but could live in a rural setting, they might consider rural Oklahoma if we had the infrastructure in place to support it. And I think from a cost prospective it might be cheaper overall than just trying to land a few manufacturing or distribution plants to rural parts far from the city or freeway access (especially). With the change in the US industrial makeup to include a significant knowledge sector, OK could possibly take advantage of that by offering a rural life that might be better than other plains states if internet were fast/available given you're not that far from OKC no matter where you live in Oklahoma, save the Panhandle or far SE, and in the NE you're not far from Tulsa - so if you need services/hospitals or whatever it is doable in a way not found in the rest of the great plains.

Just think if we targeted a few, far flung otherwise declining counties for broadband internet connectivity and picked up a few thousand workers over the next few years who could work from home in that rural setting but still be very connected. That'd help put a dent in the decline to make a difference.

Anyway, just a thought after reading that article.

Better answer is focusing young people on the importance of family and having kids to sustain your culture and way of life.

True, but the best paying jobs in small towns to support a family may be a government job, like with the Post Office. But such jobs may not be readily available or require a long wait. Besides that, maybe a lot of small town young people don't want to work for the Post Office.

Are small towns doing well *anywhere*? I don’t think this is a uniquely Oklahoman problem. Small towns in general are getting hollowed out, from upstate New York to Appalachia to the plains to Eastern Washington and Oregon. Small towns just don’t provide the opportunities, education and material benefits that living in suburbs or metropolitan areas can. The better long-term investment would be in making sure Tulsa’s and OKC’s infrastructure are prepared to handle the growth.

The better long-term investment would be in making sure Tulsa’s and OKC’s infrastructure are prepared to handle the growth.

Agree these metros are the state's future. Expanding and improving the infrastructure in each is critically important, along with better connections between the two metros. I know the Turner will be widened to 6 lanes but there really needs to be a rail connection too.

Are small towns doing well *anywhere*? I don’t think this is a uniquely Oklahoman problem. Small towns in general are getting hollowed out, from upstate New York to Appalachia to the plains to Eastern Washington and Oregon. Small towns just don’t provide the opportunities, education and material benefits that living in suburbs or metropolitan areas can. The better long-term investment would be in making sure Tulsa’s and OKC’s infrastructure are prepared to handle the growth.

Yes, it's a national trend but one that isn't often raised in the "people are moving to OKC" narrative.

Way, way more people coming in from places like Clinton and Durant than out of state.


Probably the biggest driver of people moving in from out of state is the strong and relatively recent emphasis OU has placed on recruiting from the DFW area. Once someone goes to Norman for school, they tend to make friends and contacts here and then stay after graduation.

44% of the incoming freshman class is from out of state and the huge majority are from the DFW area.

When I graduated from OU in the 80s, there were very few enrolled Texans -- and most of them were athletes. Now, there are almost 6,000 current students that come from the Lone Star State; that's over 20% of the undergraduate study body.

I'll be moving to Enid, because remote work has made it possible to be closer to family there.

Yes, it's a national trend but one that isn't often raised in the "people are moving to OKC" narrative.

Way, way more people coming in from places like Clinton and Durant than out of state.


Probably the biggest driver of people moving in from out of state is the strong and relatively recent emphasis OU has placed on recruiting from the DFW area. Once someone goes to Norman for school, they tend to make friends and contacts here and then stay after graduation.

44% of the incoming freshman class is from out of state and the huge majority are from the DFW area.

When I graduated from OU in the 80s, there were very few enrolled Texans -- and most of them were athletes. Now, there are almost 6,000 current students that come from the Lone Star State; that's over 20% of the undergraduate study body.

Interesting. When I attended OU in the late 1980s the number of kids from the DFW was huge. The DFW alumni group is OU's largest, although I'm sure you already know that.

As for OKC in-migration, in the last month I don't know if it's selective attention or what but I'm seeing a crazy number of out-of-state tags all over town, Massachusetts, Florida, lots of California tags, etc.

Are small towns doing well *anywhere*? I don’t think this is a uniquely Oklahoman problem. Small towns in general are getting hollowed out, from upstate New York to Appalachia to the plains to Eastern Washington and Oregon. Small towns just don’t provide the opportunities, education and material benefits that living in suburbs or metropolitan areas can. The better long-term investment would be in making sure Tulsa’s and OKC’s infrastructure are prepared to handle the growth.

Durant is about the only small Oklahoma town growing fairly fast. Stillwater is growing but has slowed down in growth.

As for OKC in-migration, in the last month I don't know if it's selective attention or what but I'm seeing a crazy number of out-of-state tags all over town, Massachusetts, Florida, lots of California tags, etc.

People keep saying things like this.

In 6 years of being back in OKC and being all over this town as much as anyone, I've yet to see many out of state plates at all. And never one from California (apart from my own when I initially moved back).

I'll be moving to Enid, because remote work has made it possible to be closer to family there.

this is what I was talking about. I think it could be an opportunity for the state to at least stem the outflow if we made broadband in key rural areas a priority. So sad to see with all OKC's growth the state still didn't crack 4 million due to the rural outflow.

People keep saying things like this.

In 6 years of being back in OKC and being all over this town as much as anyone, I've yet to see many out of state plates at all. And never one from California (apart from my own when I initially moved back).

Pete, when we were in OKC recently for the Christmas break we saw a lot of out of state plates as well, even with the relative lockdown that was in place then. It really made my wife and I think OKC was growing. You might say that was a Christmas phenomina (our car was also one of the out-of-states btw) but it was notable .

People keep saying things like this.

In 6 years of being back in OKC and being all over this town as much as anyone, I've yet to see many out of state plates at all. And never one from California (apart from my own when I initially moved back).

I rarely see California plates. The california migration is trumped up and grossly misrepresented. But what Do I know I just read the US census.gov numbers which are easily available on the website. I do see a lot of. Texaslates. . Arkansas maybe every few days. Maybe a Florida every few weeks.

Keep in mind rental car fleets were decimated during the beginning of the pandemic, and a lot of those remaining cars got spread around the country. I know the past several times I have rented a car in Oklahoma I had out of state plates on all of those cars.

Not saying every car you see is a rental car, but that could skew your perception.

Whenever I rent a car, first thing I do is take a photo copy of the tag with my cellphone which is usually from another state (In case the car gets stolen).

Have yet to rent a car in Oklahoma that had an Oklahoma license plate--the companies usually have them tagged in another state because it's inexpensive compared to having them tagged here. That's an area Oklahoma should look into--make it cheaper to have rental cars
tagged in our state--just a thought.

Whenever I rent a car, first thing I do is take a photo copy of the tag with my cellphone which is usually from another state (In case the car gets stolen).

Have yet to rent a car in Oklahoma that had an Oklahoma license plate--the companies usually have them tagged in another state because it's inexpensive compared to having them tagged here. That's an area Oklahoma should look into--make it cheaper to have rental cars
tagged in our state--just a thought.

I'd bet the out of state car tags are from drop offs driven from other parts of the country. I know Hertz would replenish their fleet in OKC with cars dropped off at the DFW airport.

I am out and about every day as part of my job. I see a lot of out of state plates. I can usually tell they are not from here because they drive like they have no idea where they are going.

I am out and about every day as part of my job. I see a lot of out of state plates. I can usually tell they are not from here because they drive like they have no idea where they are going.

That's darn sure one way to tell... :cool:

I know there will be rental cars but that many? Also, rental cars will have other identifiers, such as stickers and what-not.

I've seen a number of Oklahoma tags here in the Seattle area; not sure if they were rentals due to the age/type of vehicles would NOT be rentals.

My realtor says moving in from out of state, outpaces leaving the state by about 2:1.

There's a ton of in-migration to OKC for sure, but people are still moving to OKC from out of state.

My realtor says moving in from out of state, outpaces leaving the state by about 2:1.

There's a ton of in-migration to OKC for sure, but people are still moving to OKC from out of state.

According to the Census, Oklahoma was ranked 11th for net total domestic migration, adding close to 25,000 people from other states. Our natural increase, however, declined due to more deaths than births, certainly due, in part, to COVID.

Last time I visited beautiful Washington was the OU Sooners - WU Huskies & OSU Cowboys - WSU Cougars games in September 2008, remember how well we were received especially after the Supersonics had announced its relocation to OKC in August.

Seattle deserves its nickname 'Emerald City,' and the whole state had beautiful topography, comparable to what you see in our Turner Falls-Arbuckle Mountains area. OU beat WU and OSU defeated WSU. Got my long introduction to the Save-Our-Sonics movement.

2021: Watching the Winstar & Choctaw growth developments north of the Texas border are amazing. My boys kept saying, 'this doesn't look like we're in Oklahoma--can't believe all of this.'

Just want to emphasized that OKC & TULSA MSAs represent 2. 5 million of our State 4 million population.
.

According to the Census, Oklahoma was ranked 11th for net total domestic migration, adding close to 25,000 people from other states. Our natural increase, however, declined due to more deaths than births, certainly due, in part, to COVID.

Those are 2020-21 estimates, not official numbers.

For the official 2020 census compared to the official 2010 census, Oklahoma's percentage growth was 27th among all states; 25th in absolute population growth.

People in the U.S. move around much more than they did just a few decades ago. But as a state, our growth continues to be average or below average.

OKC is doing a bit better than the state overall (due mainly to the rural to urban trend) but still nowhere near boomtown status (20%+ over a 10-year period).


I say all this because I love Oklahoma as much as anyone, but it's important to keep perspective and not make assumptions based on cherry-picked Chamber of Commerce data and anecdotal stories. I have friends in St. Louis who have been out-bid on homes numerous times, and that area is hardly booming or being overrun by people from out of state; it's just a function of housing issues all across the country.

IMO, there is much more the state should be doing to entice people to move here from elsewhere (like greatly improving the investment in education) and to the extent a shift is happening, it's very modest by any objective standard even if it is slightly better than the past.

And that tells me we need to be doing much more to be competitive because every other state and city is vying for domestic migration and are actively working towards that.

Then you go to war with Walmart. Don't give them business. Support the local grocery store, hardware store, pharmacy. I understand how difficult this is, but you have to fight. Walmart and most every other giant corporation hates you and your way of life. They have taken over small town Oklahoma and everyone seems to be ok with sending all their paycheck to NW Arkansas and eventually China

But in some small towns strip malls have sprung up next to Walmart, which attract mom and pop type stores. But it doesn't help downtowns.

Dollar chain stores in towns too small for a Walmart are another problem, especially if they don't sell fresh produce.

I think the article hit on something that many of us might have missed but probably should really think about - rural broadband internet access.

If folks had a choice to work remotely but could live in a rural setting, they might consider rural Oklahoma if we had the infrastructure in place to support it. And I think from a cost prospective it might be cheaper overall than just trying to land a few manufacturing or distribution plants to rural parts far from the city or freeway access (especially). With the change in the US industrial makeup to include a significant knowledge sector, OK could possibly take advantage of that by offering a rural life that might be better than other plains states if internet were fast/available given you're not that far from OKC no matter where you live in Oklahoma, save the Panhandle or far SE, and in the NE you're not far from Tulsa - so if you need services/hospitals or whatever it is doable in a way not found in the rest of the great plains.

Just think if we targeted a few, far flung otherwise declining counties for broadband internet connectivity and picked up a few thousand workers over the next few years who could work from home in that rural setting but still be very connected. That'd help put a dent in the decline to make a difference.

Anyway, just a thought after reading that article.

Bluepeak, an out of state company, is working to put fiber-optic Internet access in small towns in Oklahoma. Residential customers can get up to 5 gigabits of symmetrical bandwidth and businesses can get up to 10 gigabits and beyond. Bluepeak hopes to have it available to all of Stillwater by the end of 2023. Small town cable TV with Internet companies will probably not want to be left behind.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/first-phase-of-bluepeaks-several-hundred-million-dollar-investment-to-bring-a-high-speed-fiber-to-the-home-network-to-oklahoma-is-underway-301429447.html

https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/new-internet-provider-breaks-ground-on-fiber-network/article_f0a0a2e7-8357-5ba9-90f4-778f33d94bc9.html

https://bzs321hdmns3gpaacxvh6713-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/BP_PR_Perry_OK_03-22-22.pdf .

Furthermore, according to the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, hundreds of electric cooperatives are providing or assessing the feasibility of providing service to more than six million households that don’t have access to high-speed internet service. This can mean even the smallest rural towns in Oklahoma could get it.

What helps rural towns in Oklahoma to attract people to move there will also help Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Small towns should try out cash incentives to entice people to move there.

I know there will be rental cars but that many? Also, rental cars will have other identifiers, such as stickers and what-not.

I've seen a number of Oklahoma tags here in the Seattle area; not sure if they were rentals due to the age/type of vehicles would NOT be rentals.

Actually, I believe most rental car companies don't put stickers or other things that identify a car as a rental any longer, makes them less of a target.

Some rentals have bar codes that Hertz, for example, will scan with mobile scanners upon return to quickly get you moving on. The scanners give you the receipt right there. When I used to travel a lot these barcodes were pretty good sized usually on one of the driver's side windows as to be scanned almost while you're driving up.

Some rentals have bar codes that Hertz, for example, will scan with mobile scanners upon return to quickly get you moving on. The scanners give you the receipt right there. When I used to travel a lot these barcodes were pretty good sized usually on one of the driver's side windows as to be scanned almost while you're driving up.

Yes, they have those, but they generally don't have a big decal on the car somewhere that has the name of the rental car company - that's what I (and presumably HOT ROD) was talking about.

this is what I was talking about. I think it could be an opportunity for the state to at least stem the outflow if we made broadband in key rural areas a priority. So sad to see with all OKC's growth the state still didn't crack 4 million due to the rural outflow.

The state is getting hundreds of millions for rural broadband from the Biden infrastructure package.

That being said, living in rural areas will only become less attractive for younger people. It’s increasingly a cultural and economic dead end.

The state is getting hundreds of millions for rural broadband from the Biden infrastructure package.

That being said, living in rural areas will only become less attractive for younger people. It’s increasingly a cultural and economic dead end.

Yeah, I'm mostly speaking for myself here (Though I do feel like the majority of people I know around my age would share this opinion), but it would take some serious incentives, and probably even serious development to get me to even consider, much less actually move really anywhere in Western Oklahoma. Now, start taking me NE or SE to some of those prettier areas of the state and you could probably make a better argument. Just really again don't see much appeal, if any, to move out to one of these small towns where you're an hour - hour and a half, from the nearest grocery store and where there is really no natural appeal to the land to make you want to live there, and honestly, for someone around my age there isn't anything to do. Sure, you could argue we could go mudding out on the backroads or something like that but I can do that in parts of Piedmont, Oklahoma, where I was a 10-15 minute drive down the expressway and I'm in OKC. Maybe I have a unique perspective because I grew up in a place like Piedmont, but I really feel like any appeal to the "small town" lifestyle out in the boonies, can be found just about 15-45 minutes outside the OKC metropolitan area in places like Kingfisher, Okarche, Union City, and even Bethel Acres. This might come across as brutal and maybe even ignorant but I just cannot see any appeal to living in most parts of the west side of the state, I just seriously cannot name a single reason I'd want to move there besides maybe some peace and quiet, but again, you can go to NE/SE parts of the state where we've got some terrain and beauty and you can find it there, and frankly it's a lot more appealing to live in those areas than to be surrounded by nothing but flat plains for miles and miles.

The state is getting hundreds of millions for rural broadband from the Biden infrastructure package.

That being said, living in rural areas will only become less attractive for younger people. It’s increasingly a cultural and economic dead end.

I think the most remote Oklahoma towns from Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Dallas-Ft. Worth will have the most to lose. Most remote workers and other people won't want a very long drive to the nearest big metro.

One guy from San Franciso took advantage of the Stillwater incentive offer, said he loves living there and enjoyed going to OKC to see the skeleton museum.

I think the most remote Oklahoma towns from Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Dallas-Ft. Worth will have the most to lose. Most remote workers and other people won't want a very long drive to the nearest big metro.

One guy from San Franciso took advantage of the Stillwater incentive offer, said he loves living there and enjoyed going to OKC to see the skeleton museum.

Yeah, I think that Stillwater is very well positioned to capture any OKC/Tulsa spillover. OSU being there means that there will always be a decent amount of activity going on in the city proper, and then it’s only about an hour and 15 minute drive to either OKC or Tulsa, really not a big barrier at all on the weekends. I actually think ODOT should make it a decently high priority to upgrade the entirety of SH-51 to four lanes between Stillwater and the Keystone Dam.

Yeah, I think that Stillwater is very well positioned to capture any OKC/Tulsa spillover. OSU being there means that there will always be a decent amount of activity going on in the city proper, and then it’s only about an hour and 15 minute drive to either OKC or Tulsa, really not a big barrier at all on the weekends. I actually think ODOT should make it a decently high priority to upgrade the entirety of SH-51 to four lanes between Stillwater and the Keystone Dam.

A plus for Stillwater where you will see more growth; especially those who want that small town feel, yet have an occasional need to drive to one of Oklahoma two largest cities equal distance from Stillwater.

Yeah, I'm mostly speaking for myself here (Though I do feel like the majority of people I know around my age would share this opinion), but it would take some serious incentives, and probably even serious development to get me to even consider, much less actually move really anywhere in Western Oklahoma. Now, start taking me NE or SE to some of those prettier areas of the state and you could probably make a better argument. Just really again don't see much appeal, if any, to move out to one of these small towns where you're an hour - hour and a half, from the nearest grocery store and where there is really no natural appeal to the land to make you want to live there, and honestly, for someone around my age there isn't anything to do. Sure, you could argue we could go mudding out on the backroads or something like that but I can do that in parts of Piedmont, Oklahoma, where I was a 10-15 minute drive down the expressway and I'm in OKC. Maybe I have a unique perspective because I grew up in a place like Piedmont, but I really feel like any appeal to the "small town" lifestyle out in the boonies, can be found just about 15-45 minutes outside the OKC metropolitan area in places like Kingfisher, Okarche, Union City, and even Bethel Acres. This might come across as brutal and maybe even ignorant but I just cannot see any appeal to living in most parts of the west side of the state, I just seriously cannot name a single reason I'd want to move there besides maybe some peace and quiet, but again, you can go to NE/SE parts of the state where we've got some terrain and beauty and you can find it there, and frankly it's a lot more appealing to live in those areas than to be surrounded by nothing but flat plains for miles and miles.

You're not wrong. Western Oklahoma has always been a tough sell for people. It is not like those western counties that are losing population ever had much population to begin with.

Yes, they have those, but they generally don't have a big decal on the car somewhere that has the name of the rental car company - that's what I (and presumably HOT ROD) was talking about.

You might be right but I was speaking from my experience during christmas (drove to OKC and back with Avis, stickers)

I think equating license plates to migration is not a valid indicator. Between a military base and several colleges you have out of state tags on cars not owned by residents. Then factor in the folks on 35 and 40 passing through and you have more non residents.

Just south of me in Edmond Tabor and a few other home builders are throwing up houses as fast as they can. I a little over month they were approved for another 1600 plus lots on top of what they already had. These homes are being occupied as soon as they are finished. There a other new housing additions going in in Edmond and building at the same break neck speed. Then this is northwest Okc doing the same and I would guess Yukon, Mustang, Piedmont, Moore Norman and other places also. Ok folks, who is buying all these houses? where did they live prior to buying them? are they moving from apartments? rent houses? Seems like there is also a rent house shortage from what I am hearing. ARe these folks coming from rural or other parts of Oklahoma? or could it be from other states. Just saying a lot and I mean a lot of new homes are being built. Lets talk about who is buying them. Just from what I am seeing, next Edmond census will show a large population increase. Will the other areas show like wise???

Yeah, I think that Stillwater is very well positioned to capture any OKC/Tulsa spillover. OSU being there means that there will always be a decent amount of activity going on in the city proper, and then it’s only about an hour and 15 minute drive to either OKC or Tulsa, really not a big barrier at all on the weekends. I actually think ODOT should make it a decently high priority to upgrade the entirety of SH-51 to four lanes between Stillwater and the Keystone Dam.

Both airports are what's an hour and 15 minutes away. Both downtowns are an hour away. Penn Square is an hour away.

44 Between OKC and Tulsa needs to be 6 lanes and 35 between OKC and TX state line needs to 6 lanes

44 Between OKC and Tulsa needs to be 6 lanes and 35 between OKC and TX state line needs to 6 lanes

Turner to a full 6 lanes between okc and tulsa has already been announced and funded