I disagree with your entire premise. Carry on, though. Thanks.

I agree with your entire premise. Carry on.

I agree with your entire premise. Carry on.

+1. Some folks have enough perspective to understand that pendulums tend to swing both ways in due time.

+1. Some folks have enough perspective to understand that pendulums tend to swing both ways in due time.

But when it swings the other way, will those same people agree that things need to change? Say the rural populations were totally ignored by the current politics. Would people on the urban side say "tough luck" or would they work to move the pendulum where it benefits the rural side a bit? I think not. Those who have power hate losing it, it goes for democrats and republicans.

+1. Some folks have enough perspective to understand that pendulums tend to swing both ways in due time.

exactly

You can't legislate population.

Oklahoma City's growth IMO had much to do with a string of MAPS Initiatives . . .

Think about it, original MAPS passed in 1993--it was a growth trigger. Now we're seeing BancFirst and First National Center towers with exterior & interior renovation--they will be impressive additions to the skyline.

NBA moved our city to a higher level major league sports.

OKC is now being mentioned on every significant statistical list of importance.

The University of Oklahoma Health Science Center complex continues to expand with modest plans for the Innovation District. New Housing complexes continue to grow throughout the city and the metro to make room for more population influx.

The corporate industry and mid size companies are looking at OKC when it comes to expansion; especially potential location of district offices and warehouse distribution centers.

Yes, we'll overtake Washington D. C., & Nashville in urban population come 2030:


20 Washington D.C . . . . . . . 689,545 - 601,723 = 87,822 +14.60%
21 Nashville . . . . . . . . . . . . . 689,447 - 601,222 = 88,325 +14.67%
22 Oklahoma City . . . . . . . . 681,054 - 579,999 = 101,055 +17.42%

dont forget Devon Tower and BOK Park Plaza major skyscraper additions, Omni Hotel, CC, on and on re: major investments into downtown.

and the 101K growth is conservative moving forward. I predict OKC will have yet another significant population boom once we land and solidify the business adds we've recently added. Will be even faster if/when OKC based energy businesses get into the green energy space (at least as a subsidiary business). Just realize the current population boom was leveled off due to the energy collapse, the pandemic, and the shortage of housing; if we didn't have that OKC might would have grown by 150K or more over the past decade. ..

If we grow by the same 17.4% we hit 800K in 2030, very reasonable to expect. ..

https://www.bmxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/welcome-to-oklahoma-sign-2020.jpg

Around 1,800 Afghan refugees could potentially arrive in Oklahoma: https://okcfox.com/news/local/around-1800-afghan-refugees-could-potentially-arrive-in-oklahoma


"About 1,800 give or take will be settled in the state of Oklahoma with a good possibility of about 1,000 coming to Oklahoma City and about 800 to the Tulsa area,"


https://kfor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/09/Afghanistan-and-Oklahoma-graphic.png?w=1280

Good hard working Afghans and families are welcome to our city and state.

very nice population boost to the city!

Welcome Afghans - hope they can bring wonderful cuisine and culture to the expanding Oklahoma City mosaic!

You can't legislate population.

Oklahoma City's growth IMO had much to do with a string of MAPS Initiatives . . .

Think about it, original MAPS passed in 1993--it was a growth trigger. Now we're seeing BancFirst and First National Center towers with exterior & interior renovation--they will be impressive additions to the skyline.

NBA moved our city to a higher level major league sports.

OKC is now being mentioned on every significant statistical list of importance.

The University of Oklahoma Health Science Center complex continues to expand with modest plans for the Innovation District. New Housing complexes continue to grow throughout the city and the metro to make room for more population influx.

The corporate industry and mid size companies are looking at OKC when it comes to expansion; especially potential location of district offices and warehouse distribution centers.

Yes, we'll overtake Washington D. C., & Nashville in urban population come 2030:


20 Washington D.C . . . . . . . 689,545 - 601,723 = 87,822 +14.60%
21 Nashville . . . . . . . . . . . . . 689,447 - 601,222 = 88,325 +14.67%
22 Oklahoma City . . . . . . . . 681,054 - 579,999 = 101,055 +17.42%




You mean city population. DC's urban population is over five million. Over seven if you include the neighboring Baltimore urbanized area. DC-Baltimore added over 800k people the last decade and just passed Chicago as the nations 3rd largest consolidated metro. In the next year or so DC will top ten million people. OKC is not remotely in the same class.

You can't legislate population.

Oklahoma City's growth IMO had much to do with a string of MAPS Initiatives . . .

Think about it, original MAPS passed in 1993--it was a growth trigger. Now we're seeing BancFirst and First National Center towers with exterior & interior renovation--they will be impressive additions to the skyline.

NBA moved our city to a higher level major league sports.

OKC is now being mentioned on every significant statistical list of importance.

The University of Oklahoma Health Science Center complex continues to expand with modest plans for the Innovation District. New Housing complexes continue to grow throughout the city and the metro to make room for more population influx.

The corporate industry and mid size companies are looking at OKC when it comes to expansion; especially potential location of district offices and warehouse distribution centers.

Yes, we'll overtake Washington D. C., & Nashville in urban population come 2030:


20 Washington D.C . . . . . . . 689,545 - 601,723 = 87,822 +14.60%
21 Nashville . . . . . . . . . . . . . 689,447 - 601,222 = 88,325 +14.67%
22 Oklahoma City . . . . . . . . 681,054 - 579,999 = 101,055 +17.42%




That last part about Nashville and dc is just incorrect.

Dang, from that lone star logo, Oklahoma might as well be thought of as northern Texas. I hope there will be a better logo thought up soon.

My badd using the term urban, city population was listed...

My subject focus was on city population, not metro. We will overtake D.C. and Nashville if we maintain a 17.4% growth rate--if the actual numbers remain similar.

Wasn't comparing Metropolitan Areas of DC-Baltimore and Nashville--again, incorrectly used the term urban--when listed city populations.

Oklahoma City was founded in 1889--D.C. in 1790 and Nashville in 1806. Oklahoma didn't become a state until 1907. The more older cities have been around for decades before we were incorporated. They started the census in 1790.

City population means diddly squat. Metro population will always be the real size of a city both in how it functions and it’s economic power in a region.

Saying we are bigger than Portland and Miami etc. is just cherry picking numbers to make a headline. It is not at all relevant to anything.

Still, it’s impressive when you can say your city has over a million people in its limits(North American cities that is) but it’s more impressive if the metro is 5x that.

Is urban the same thing as MSA?

Still, it’s impressive when you can say your city has over a million people in its limits(North American cities that is) but it’s more impressive if the metro is 5x that.

Is urban the same thing as MSA?

No, Urbanized Area is the central area of cohesive dense development of a metro area. It's generally smaller than MSA and much less smaller than CSA. City limits, especially in the United States, are kinda meaningless, except from a local administrative perspective.

^^^ interesting. I’ve heard this term before but chalked it up to being another name for MSA. I’m guessing development isn’t dense enough to call Dallas and Fort Worth a singular urban area but LA and San Bernardino could be one? I personally am interested in megalopolises. Much like people see Dallas and Forth worth a one city or metro area I see Ventura-LA-San Diego as the same. If it weren’t for Pendleton there would be a continuous stretch of development.

City population means diddly squat. Metro population will always be the real size of a city both in how it functions and it’s economic power in a region.

Saying we are bigger than Portland and Miami etc. is just cherry picking numbers to make a headline. It is not at all relevant to anything.

True catch 22.

There's also other factors like cost of land, ...of living & utilities, water resources (lakes, reservoirs--Sardis Lake agreement), potential growth for companies wanting to expand or relocate; also programs like Quality Jobs that support a healthy business climate for expanding jobs. Mayor Cornett recognized that OKC needed to increase our buying potential by attracting better wage and salaried paying jobs--our per capita income increased.

OKC is getting better paying jobs--Heartland Payments, Amazon facilities among the recent additions.

Your central city can be a catalyst to a bigger MSA because of a variety of factors like improved business climate and a strong CBD. OKC still has ample room for density; our MSA growth rate was 13.8% (172,708) healthy growth when you look at our State (208,000 - 5.5%).

Universities & colleges like Oklahoma, UCO, SNU, Rose State College, OCCC and Oklahoma City University are key along with the ever expanding OU Health Science Center Complex.

Our numbers and growth rate more than doubled that of our state. Oklahoma City & Tulsa (both over 1 million MSA population) were the bulk sources of population growth for Oklahoma.

.

City population means diddly squat. Metro population will always be the real size of a city both in how it functions and it’s economic power in a region.

Saying we are bigger than Portland and Miami etc. is just cherry picking numbers to make a headline. It is not at all relevant to anything.

+1

very nice population boost to the city!

Welcome Afghans - hope they can bring wonderful cuisine and culture to the expanding Oklahoma City mosaic!

Thank you, HOT ROD.

Anyone opposed to welcoming Afghans...

BTW: dcsooner, you live in a state 2 1/4 times (North Carolina) the population of Oklahoma; how many Afghans are being assigned to your two largest MSA Charlotte & Raleigh.. And catch 22 are you in Colorado--have you heard Afghans count being assigned to your state.

Channel 4 KFOR mentioned that Oklahoma is 3rd behind California & Texas in receiving Afghan refugees.

Thank you, HOT ROD.

Anyone opposed to welcoming Afghans...

BTW: dcsooner, you live in a state 2 1/4 times (North Carolina) the population of Oklahoma; how many Afghans are being assigned to your two largest MSA Charlotte & Raleigh..

Not as many as Oklahoma. Only California and Texas are getting more Afghans than we are. I believe OKC is getting 1,000 and Tulsa is getting 800.

https://images.axios.com/nipiKZ6cq0-M-lQo5Ia5V6ipHAA=/fit-in/1366x1366/2021/09/16/1631752924693.png

Four states are not getting Afghan refugees: Hawaii, South Dakota, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

The states of California, Texas, Oklahoma and Washington are the four getting the most refugees.

Governor Kevin Stitt released a statement saying he welcomes Afghans fleeing the Taliban regime to Oklahoma.

True catch 22.

There's also other factors like cost of land, ...of living & utilities, water resources (lakes, reservoirs--Sardis Lake agreement), potential growth for companies wanting to expand or relocate; also programs like Quality Jobs that support a healthy business climate for expanding jobs. Mayor Cornett recognized that OKC needed to increase our buying potential by attracting better wage and salaried paying jobs--our per capita income increased.

OKC is getting better paying jobs--Heartland Payments, Amazon facilities among the recent additions.

Your central city can be a catalyst to a bigger MSA because of a variety of factors like improved business climate and a strong CBD. OKC still has ample room for density; our MSA growth rate was 13.8% (172,708) healthy growth when you look at our State (208,000 - 5.5%).

Universities & colleges like Oklahoma, UCO, SNU, Rose State College, OCCC and Oklahoma City University are key along with the ever expanding OU Health Science Center Complex.

Our numbers and growth rate more than doubled that of our state. Oklahoma City & Tulsa (both over 1 million MSA population) were the bulk sources of population growth for Oklahoma.

.

There was no other growth. The two metros added a combined 250,561 people. The rest of the state lost 42,559 people or -2.7%.

Sounds like rural areas will continue to empty out creating more ghost towns and small population in alot of rural counties. Anyone what to make any guesses what rural areas will be like in another 10 yrs or say 20?

City population means diddly squat. Metro population will always be the real size of a city both in how it functions and it’s economic power in a region.

Saying we are bigger than Portland and Miami etc. is just cherry picking numbers to make a headline. It is not at all relevant to anything.

Portland doesn't have anything on OKC except for being older and a "port" city on the west coast. Actually it and OKC are similar mid-sized cities in a lot of ways, down the street from bigger cities in Seattle and DFW, and the challenges that presents.

I think it's totally relevant for OKC to tout its city population since it is where the growth is vs. other metros especially Portland. We can be proud of our growth just the same as Portland might be for their metro growth.

That being said - I'm a bit disappointed at OKC's metro growth. Sure the city grew by over 100K but the metro outside of the city only picked up 72K? This must change, IMO metro growth should be at least double that of the city for a city/region to claim to be a boom town. I still can't figure out why the metro outside of OKC didn't also grow by 10K per year.....

You are seriously suggesting Portland and OKC are peer cities?

In which universe? They could literally not be any more different of cities in just about every regard.

Oklahoma City has Dutch Bros now so we’re basically indistinguishable from Portland.

Portland doesn't have anything on OKC except for being older and a "port" city on the west coast. Actually it and OKC are similar mid-sized cities in a lot of ways, down the street from bigger cities in Seattle and DFW, and the challenges that presents.

I think it's totally relevant for OKC to tout its city population since it is where the growth is vs. other metros especially Portland. We can be proud of our growth just the same as Portland might be for their metro growth.

That being said - I'm a bit disappointed at OKC's metro growth. Sure the city grew by over 100K but the metro outside of the city only picked up 72K? This must change, IMO metro growth should be at least double that of the city for a city/region to claim to be a boom town. I still can't figure out why the metro outside of OKC didn't also grow by 10K per year.....

I’m sorry, but Portland and OKC are not similar in any way, sorry. I know his is an OKC forum but this comparison is very ridiculous in so many ways. Sorry.

Small numbers in the grand scheme of things, but OKC just welcomed its first of about 1,000 Afghan refugees last night.

https://www.cairoklahoma.com/blog/cair-ok-welcomes-arrival-of-first-afghan-refugees-to-oklahoma/


Today the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Oklahoma chapter (CAIR-OK) welcomed the arrival of the first Afghan Refugees to our state after they landed in Oklahoma City late last night. An interfaith delegation welcomed them alongside Catholic Charities staff and provided them with welcome kits containing items such as a copy of the Qur’an, an Islamic prayer rug, PPE items, and essential hygiene products. The family was also provided with clothing, much of which has been donated by the community over the last week.

In addition to the welcome kits, our new neighbors were also provided halal food from a local Muslim restaurant as a reminder that their faith and culture are safe and celebrated in Oklahoma.

“It is an honor to work alongside our partners to serve these new neighbors as they settle in,” said CAIR-OK Civil Rights Director Veronica Laizure. “CAIR Oklahoma is uniquely positioned to help make sure that their transitions are smooth, compassionate, and welcoming, and we are happy to be a part of this historic effort and welcome our Afghan friends to the Oklahoma family.”

CAIR Oklahoma is continuing to collect donated items that will assist the refugees as they transition to life in Oklahoma. These items include, but are not limited to, clothing, hygiene items, PPE supplies, school supplies, and winter items. Other donation drives, including winter gear, baby supplies, and school supplies for children, will be posted to the organization’s web pages and social media as more information becomes available.

“Right now, we are focused on sorting out what we have and on meeting the immediate needs of these families as they arrive,” continued Ms. Laizure. “However, we do also anticipate needing the community to step up in other ways, including in the areas of housing, medical care, storage for donated furniture and housewares, education, counseling, and more. There will be many opportunities to get involved, so we encourage everyone to reach out to us and stay tuned to our social media accounts as we learn more.”

According to confirmed reports, Oklahoma is expecting 1,800 Afghan refugees to arrive over the coming months with 1,000 that will be relocated to Oklahoma City and 800 that will be relocated to Tulsa.

Hopefully they're welcomed with open arms here.

This may surprise many of you who have read my comments regarding OKC and its issues, but this is a positive observation of what I believe is happening in OKC. I am seeing (from afar) by reading, researching and comparing OKCs progress to cities of similar size that OKC is doing more than OK. The city's growth is outpacing others (Memphis, Louisville, Milwaukee, New Orleans ) and compares favorably to bigger cities. The opportunities for startup businesses are unlimited, arts and culture growing by leaps and bounds (FAM, MOA etc), Entertainment options growing, our support of our NBA Team is awesome, New films being produced in the city and state, OU's strategic plan to improve the overall standing of the university which improved already according to the latest US News and World Report. OU's move t the SEC will enhance the Athletic brand. Really I could keep going but suffice to say, The City of OKC is transforming itself and is on a trajectory that will elevate it beyond those place s we now consider our peers.

Last Thing.PLEASE welcome these refugees, they will only strengthen the community and state and provide new opportunities to learn from and grow diversity which is good

This may surprise many of you who have read my comments regarding OKC and its issues, but this is a positive observation of what I believe is happening in OKC. I am seeing (from afar) by reading, researching and comparing OKCs progress to cities of similar size that OKC is doing more than OK. The city's growth is outpacing others (Memphis, Louisville, Milwaukee, New Orleans ) and compares favorably to bigger cities. The opportunities for startup businesses are unlimited, arts and culture growing by leaps and bounds (FAM, MOA etc), Entertainment options growing, our support of our NBA Team is awesome, New films being produced in the city and state, OU's strategic plan to improve the overall standing of the university which improved already according to the latest US News and World Report. OU's move t the SEC will enhance the Athletic brand. Really I could keep going but suffice to say, The City of OKC is transforming itself and is on a trajectory that will elevate it beyond those place s we now consider our peers.

Last Thing.PLEASE welcome these refugees, they will only strengthen the community and state and provide new opportunities to learn from and grow diversity which is good

Nicely put. The Spero Project (https://www.thesperoproject.com/) has been and is doing an awesome job getting people to volunteer to welcome refugees. I attended a training last week with about 60+ others to learn about volunteer opportunities.

Just like anything this isn't meant to be a blanket statement (I'm sure there are some bad actors), but we should absolutely be welcoming to the Afghans. I actually felt pride when Stitt welcomed them because I think it's 100% the right thing to do. These refugees fought for freedom and by doing so fought to protect America and the freedom we all enjoy everyday. You might even say they did more to protect America than most citizens ever do.

I can't think of anything more American than that, and I'd be proud and honored for them to become citizens of this great country.

Welcome future Americans.

Just like anything this isn't meant to be a blanket statement (I'm sure there are some bad actors), but we should absolutely be welcoming to the Afghans. I actually felt pride when Stitt welcomed them because I think it's 100% the right thing to do. These refugees fought for freedom and by doing so fought to protect America and the freedom we all enjoy everyday. You might even say they did more to protect America than most citizens ever do.

I can't think of anything more American than that, and I'd be proud and honored for them to become citizens of this great country.

Welcome future Americans.

Thanks, your post hit the spot.

I stand by my observation regarding OKC and Portland. Having visited PDX numerous times since I live in Seattle Tacoma area and being an OKC expat I can see very many similarities in the two.

Now OKC is probably a good 10-15 years behind development wise (I recall Portland BEFORE the Rose District or the Waterfront/Gondola area weren't even a thought [similar to Strawberry Fields] and when the Portland Streetcar was just starting and MAX light rail only had one line) but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities today;

BUT the similarity between the two that I was particularly alluding to that catch and josh completely missed is that OKC and Portland are 150 miles away from larger twin-cities in Dallas/Ft Worth and Seattle/Tacoma. Portland figured out how to survive with its no sales tax (so we used to frequent there for shopping). What can OKC learn from Portland or Milwaukee (another peer) to thrive business wise.

BTW - don't be fooled by the cool-aid, Portland's metro area sprawls significantly more than OKC's despite Portland's city urban growth boundary. Both are peer 2nd-tier US cities, Portland being more mature.

This may surprise many of you who have read my comments regarding OKC and its issues, but this is a positive observation of what I believe is happening in OKC. I am seeing (from afar) by reading, researching and comparing OKCs progress to cities of similar size that OKC is doing more than OK. The city's growth is outpacing others (Memphis, Louisville, Milwaukee, New Orleans ) and compares favorably to bigger cities. The opportunities for startup businesses are unlimited, arts and culture growing by leaps and bounds (FAM, MOA etc), Entertainment options growing, our support of our NBA Team is awesome, New films being produced in the city and state, OU's strategic plan to improve the overall standing of the university which improved already according to the latest US News and World Report. OU's move t the SEC will enhance the Athletic brand. Really I could keep going but suffice to say, The City of OKC is transforming itself and is on a trajectory that will elevate it beyond those place s we now consider our peers.

Last Thing.PLEASE welcome these refugees, they will only strengthen the community and state and provide new opportunities to learn from and grow diversity which is good

dcsooner - I totally agree with this, somehow OKC is excelling despite it's state (or to a lesser degree Tulsa) pulling it down. I think the next boom is still ahead of us in the next few years and by around 2026 or so OKC will be a solid 2nd-tier city/metro it's always had potential to be. Study peer cities that also boomed and are more mature for also near much larger city for lessons learned, Portland, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte all come to mind. OKC can truly be the next one if we continue to play our cards right - and the refugees is a huge step.

People are moving from the smaller towns to the city and metropolitan areas. Many are older more established family that no longer need a large 3+ bedroom homes with large yards that require care.

Hopefully our city population will help with more representation in the State Level Legislature where Hot Rod mentioned is bringing down momentum.

Not concerned with Portland, I don't consider it a peer to OKC. It's a more larger dense city with an established metro equivalent to OKC-TUL metro populations combined. Oregon has a population of 4.3 million covering 98.3 sq.miles (2.4% water) vs Oklahoma 3.9 million covering 69.8 sq. miles (1.9% water).

Let's face it; Oklahoma City (1,425,695) and Tulsa (1,015,331) metros represent 2,441,026 (62%) of the State's 3,990,443 population total. Our two largest metropolitan area are getting ready to experience more growth as people move more toward the inner larger cities.

Oregon's two largest cities are Portland and Salem closely followed by Eugene.

Our city has increased public safety (Police & Fire) human & concrete infrastructure.

Oklahoma City Demographics by race:

White: 67.68%
Black or African American: 14.28%
Two or more races: 6.34%
Asian: 4.51%
Other race: 4.13%
Native American: 2.94%

Tulsa Demographics by race:

White: 64.34%
Black or African American: 15.24%
Two or more races: 7.50%
Other race: 4.86%
Native American: 4.53%
Asian: 3.41%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.13%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.12%


Portland Demographics by race

White: 77.38%
Asian: 8.18%
Black or African American: 5.80%
Two or more races: 5.34%
Other race: 1.89%
Native American: 0.80%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.61%

Figures for OKC-TUL-POR are according to the most recent ACS (American Community Survey).

I stand by my observation regarding OKC and Portland. Having visited PDX numerous times since I live in Seattle Tacoma area and being an OKC expat I can see very many similarities in the two.

Now OKC is probably a good 10-15 years behind development wise (I recall Portland BEFORE the Rose District or the Waterfront/Gondola area weren't even a thought [similar to Strawberry Fields] and when the Portland Streetcar was just starting and MAX light rail only had one line) but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities today;

BUT the similarity between the two that I was particularly alluding to that catch and josh completely missed is that OKC and Portland are 150 miles away from larger twin-cities in Dallas/Ft Worth and Seattle/Tacoma. Portland figured out how to survive with its no sales tax (so we used to frequent there for shopping). What can OKC learn from Portland or Milwaukee (another peer) to thrive business wise.

BTW - don't be fooled by the cool-aid, Portland's metro area sprawls significantly more than OKC's despite Portland's city urban growth boundary. Both are peer 2nd-tier US cities, Portland being more mature.

Portland and OKC are not in the same tier. Sorry, that is not so very untrue. I know it’s not my place to comment on things such as this, or maybe it is, i don’t know. But, my opinion is that OKC is definitely a tier blew Portland and Portland I don’t even think is tier 2. More like upper tier 3 or at the very bottom tier 2.

OKC and Tulsa are more diverse, interesting.

OKC and Tulsa are more diverse, interesting.

MOST peer cities are more dense than OKC, so that isn't a qualifier for them not to be peers.

Again, I'm mostly looking at the fact that Portland has a significantly larger city/metro 150 miles away as does OKC, and also the downtown revitalization that both cities have done. Very similar, but obviously Portland has a growth boundary whereas OKC does not and Portland is SIGNIFICANTLY older and a port city. Still a peer.

MOST peer cities are more dense than OKC, so that isn't a qualifier for them not to be peers.

Again, I'm mostly looking at the fact that Portland has a significantly larger city/metro 150 miles away as does OKC, and also the downtown revitalization that both cities have done. Very similar, but obviously Portland has a growth boundary whereas OKC does not and Portland is SIGNIFICANTLY older and a port city. Still a peer.

Interesting point about growth boundary... OKC and Tulsa are poised for growth.

yes, Portland has an urban growth boundary that is what makes it quite dense compared to OKC that does not. This gives the appearance/feel that Portland is significantly bigger since it is more dense. But most if not all OKC peers are more dense than it is;

Still doesn't mean they aren't peers.

Portland's metro area is 2.5 million people. How is that anywhere close to the same?

Portland GDP 174B
Oklahoma City GDP: 79B

I am not sure what similarities you are seeing because they are different in just about every category. Culturally they are 100% different. Politically 100% different. Functionally 100% different. Economically 100% different. Laid out 100% different (one is suburban one is urban). Mass transit priorities 100% different. Tourist attractions 100% different.

Are we talking about Portland Maine by any chance?

Tulsa GDP 55 million and 1 million metro pop.

You could literally combine OKC and Tulsa together to equal one Portland by Population, and still be $40 billion short on economic GDP output. It is not a peer city, sorry.

yes, Portland has an urban growth boundary that is what makes it quite dense compared to OKC that does not. This gives the appearance/feel that Portland is significantly bigger since it is more dense. But most if not all OKC peers are more dense than it is;

Still doesn't mean they aren't peers.

Repeatedly saying something doesn’t make it true. Portland, Oregon and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma are not peer cities. It’s bizarre that that needs to be repeated.

This might be a good peer group to OKC:

Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, Tennessee 1,934,317
Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, Virginia/North Carolina 1,768,901
Providence-Warwick, Rhode Island/Massachusetts Metro Area 1,624,578
Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, Wisconsin Metro Area 1,575,179
Jacksonville, Florida Metro Area 1,559,514
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Metro Area 1,408,950
Raleigh-Cary, North Carolina Metro Area 1,390,785
Memphis, Tennessee/Mississippi/Arkansas 1,346,045
Richmond, Virginia Metro Area 1,291,900
Louisville-Jefferson County, Kentucky/Indiana Metro Area 1,265,108

I think a discussion of OKC's "peer cities" is a useful one to have because it can give us benchmarks and best practices to consider. Having said that, the list above is only partially useful. Yes, those metro areas are the ones that are closest to us population-wise but that's only one measure of comparison. Milwaukee is an aging factory town with an urban grid that was built for the early part of the 20th century. It may be doing great things to gentrify but it just exists at a different point in its life cycle than OKC does so I'm not sure it's a peer. Providence is similarly old. I've spent time in Louisville and loved it. It has issues with regional and civic fragmentation that OKC, thank God, does not have. Raleigh is interesting because it's a state capital and may have cultural similarities to OKC but it's such a boom town and has such a strong academic component that I'm not sure it's a peer either.

All that to say, I don't know who OKC's peers are. I would say in terms of culture, age/history and economy, Tulsa is the closest, but we're pulling farther and farther ahead of them size-wise so I don't know how useful that comparison really is anymore. I think if we're looking at the "next level up," Indianapolis has similarities to OKC that we can emulate.

Sorry, not that helpful a post, I know.

OKC and Indianapolis is a good comparison. I went there for the first time recently and thought it had a very similar “feel” to OKC with its centralized downtown and sprawling suburbs. Tulsa to me is more analogous with mid-sized river cities like Omaha and Louisville

STL, I dont know if OKC folks will ever get it. They're too stuck on metro population or other "rah rah" stats such as posted by catch/Josh to get my point of peer relationships..

carry on!

I’ll just ask since you (Hot Rod) seem to be using a specialized metric for concluding they are peers; how do Oklahoma City and Portland have a peer relationship? From my view, there are a handful of anecdotal similarities, but I just don’t see them as peers in any sense. What do you say to change my mind?

OKC and NYC are definitely peers also, since both have City in the name.

I am not using "rah rah" stats. I have lived in both cities. There is nothing similar about the two except for as you mention they are within a 3 hour drive of a much larger city. But that can be said with most cities. The numbers don't lie, Portland outweighs OKC in every statistic, and in areas where stats are arbitrary (city design, politics, feel, etc.) they are polarly opposite. I am not seeing how this is even up for debate.

Oklahoma City 681,054 /1,425,695

Are the following cities considered Oklahoma City's Peer cities:


Louisville 633,045/1,285,439 https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/oklahoma_city_ok/louisville_ky/people

Memphis 633,104/1,337,779 https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/memphis_tn/oklahoma_city_ok/people

Milwaukee 577,222/1,574,731 https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/milwaukee_wi/oklahoma_city_ok/people

Raleigh 467,665/1,413,982 https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/oklahoma_city_ok/raleigh_nc/people

I’ll just ask since you (Hot Rod) seem to be using a specialized metric for concluding they are peers; how do Oklahoma City and Portland have a peer relationship? From my view, there are a handful of anecdotal similarities, but I just don’t see them as peers in any sense. What do you say to change my mind?

as i mentioned a number of times on here, I see similarities in that both are 150 miles from a larger metro and both have/are seeing a revitalization of their downtown (Portland - Rose District, Waterfront. OKC - Bricktown, Midtown, Union District). Municipal populations are similar as well.

Not sure why this point keeps getting missed and people keep jumping to metro population as the sole comparison. I've given 2 where I see similarities - where Portland can be a peer that OKC can learn from. I've even mentioned one thing Portland has done that has made them successful - urban growth boundary. Yet the only feedback I've gotten is criticism based on metro pop. I've been to both numerous times and live in the bigger city up the road from Portland, grew up in the smaller city up from Dallas; for prospective.

Carry on.

Seattle (4.0mm) isn't that much larger than Portland (2.4mm), Seattle is only 1.66 times larger.

DFW (7.6mm) is 5.4 times larger than OKC (1.4mm). This disparity is not a similarity.

Cities with much larger neighbors like OKC?

Indianapolis (2.1mm) to Chicago (9.6mm)
Richmond, VA (1.3mm) to DC (6.4mm)
New Orleans (1.3mm) to Houston (7.1mm)
Birmingham (1.1mm) to Atlanta (6.1mm)
Tucson (1.0mm) to Phoenix (4.8mm)

According to latest census data, the state of Oklahoma added roughly 25,000 residents from April 2020 - July 2021. That's a pretty good clip, given that was peak time of the pandemic.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/popest/2020s-state-total.html

Given these numbers, I am sure OKC is close to hitting 700,000 residents.

That's equivalent to 16 months of population growth/25,000 or 1,562 each month. Majority of this growth is occurring in the Oklahoma City MSA.

2020 population as of April 1, 2020


41. Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,425,695 - 2010/1,252,987 [172,708 +13.78%]
22. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 681,054 - 2010/579,999 [101,055 +17.42%]

Also noticed Oklahoma City Sales Tax Collections April 2020 to July 2021 (same period) fluctuates from 11 - 16% growth. This supports that growth you cited G. Walker and the point Hot Rod mentioned in #2051 above... This means that there will be surplus MAPS 4 funds at the end of this eight year collection period: https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/3945/18

MAPS 4 collections for the 8 year period projected budget is $978 million. OKC had $33 million in MAPS 3 Surplus Funds in 2021. You could probably see that surplus double or triple at the end of the collection cycle.

That's equivalent to 16 months of population growth/25,000 or 1,562 each month. Majority of this growth is occurring in the Oklahoma City MSA.

2020 population as of April 1, 2020


41. Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,425,695 - 2010/1,252,987 [172,708 +13.78%]
22. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 681,054 - 2010/579,999 [101,055 +17.42%]

Also noticed Oklahoma City Sales Tax Collections April 2020 to July 2021 (same period) fluctuates from 11 - 16% growth. This supports that growth you cited G. Walker. This means that there will be surplus MAPS 4 funds at the end of this eight year collection period: https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/3945/18

MAPS 4 collections for the 8 year period projected budget is $978 million. OKC had $33 million in MAPS 3 Surplus Funds in 2021. You could probably see that surplus double or triple at the end of the collection cycle.

It's hard to say that it will mean surplus funds. Yeah, tax receipts are up, but so is inflation. Inflation means tax amounts are higher. But you have to look at the cost of construction. The price of construction products might go up quite a bit and squeeze any surplus we have. If we were in a normal inflationary environment, a surplus would be guaranteed.

The inflation on building materials could definitely eat up any or all the surplus funds. Good point, Chris Hayes.

"The numbers tell the story. Overall, construction costs for the 12-month period through the end of August 2021 rose by 4.5 percent, with material costs leading the way with a whopping increase of 23.1 percent. As noted in the report, the volatility in construction material prices experienced this year is unprecedented in contemporary history."

Construction Costs Will Keep Rising. Here’s How Much: https://www.commercialsearch.com/news/construction-costs-will-keep-rising-heres-how-much/

Census Consensus: Oklahoma City Growing https://www.news9.com/story/611fe3b8d4d39614618333a9/census-consensus:-oklahoma-city-growing-

Oklahoma population growth outpaces nation


July 2020 to July 2021:


Domestic migration add 24,687 people from other states.
International migration added 1,523 included in the total above.

These are impressive numbers, at this pace Oklahoma will probably eclipsed 4 million; OKC 700,000 in June 2022.

Source OCPA link full story: https://www.ocpathink.org/post/oklahoma-population-growth-outpaces-nation

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/12/NOKL/0655db96-1507-4405-936d-a1b7442f23f9-oklahoma_population-01.jpg
MAP above shows pattern with 5 of the 6 fastest growing counties encircle Oklahoma City

Oklahoma City saw a 17.4% increase in its population from 579,999 residents to 681,054 residents over that time period, placing it as the 22nd largest city in the U.S. Five of the 14 cities that gained more than 100,000 residents: Velocity - https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/policy/oklahoma-city-makes-sizable-gains-in-2020-census-will-benefit-from-growth/

And Eastern Canadian County has massive housing additions under construction from Piedmont to Mustang. Would not be surprised to see it at the top again in 2030.

Oklahoma City Metro Area Population by Year


Year Population Growth Growth Rate
2021 1,439,640 13,945 Estimate Current raw number of 13,945 equates to 1,162 per month/97 per week.
2020 1,425,695 Official Census * 17.4% 2010-2020 Growth Rate
2019 1,408,950 15,350 1.09%
2018 1,393,600 12,110 0.87%




Oklahoma City Population by Year

Year Population Growth
2021 NA [37,362 based on 2020-19 [718,416 unofficial estimate]
2020 681,054 37,385 Official Census* (Could this signal the beginning of a boom)
2019 643,692 6.408
2018 637,284 8,093


Oklahoma State Population by Year

Year Population Growth Growth Rate
2021 3,983,961 24,608 1.61 Estimate
2020 3,959,353 Official Census*


*Official Census 2020 figures

In the greater metro area news: Grady County had explosive growth as well:

https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/inside-okc/grady-county-ranks-no.-2-for-top-small-counties-in-the-u.s.-for-talent-attraction/?back=super_blog