Yes I believe this is the first time in city history that Non-Hispanic Whites are not the majority.

For 2020, I've been using this: https://data.dispatch.com/census/total-population/total-population-change/oklahoma-city-city-oklahoma/160-4055000/
At the bottom it shows cities and towns in Oklahoma with their Non-Hispanic White numbers.

For 2010, I used this: https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/cph-1-38.pdf
The total for Non-Hispanic Whites (and Non-Hispanics for other races) for OKC is on page 114, near the top of Table 4.

I haven't looked up 2000 census numbers so I don't have a source for that.

Perfect, thanks! I got a bit confused because the numbers given for the U.S. add up to 100% when you use Hispanic as it's own racial group, but I think that's just a confusing coincidence. Thanks for breaking it down!

FWIW to the other data geeks out there, I found the 2000 census numbers. The non-Hispanic white total was 326225, or 64.7% of the city's population.

I wonder how many of these people simply have switched what racial/ethnic group they identify with from the 2010 census.

Why would they do that? How many people are doing that? I would guess a statistical rounding error.

I am African-American, and my wife is Hispanic. However, when I did the census, I classified my children as Black. Not two or more races, so those numbers can be off.

It's self reporting data, so people are going to put the group they best identify with.

Why would they do that? How many people are doing that? I would guess a statistical rounding error.

I think he’s saying with the expansion of terms how much is a result of the

“Non Hispanic- white” wasn’t a term commonly used in 2010

Pretty much people changing how they identify with. Not intending that to be a bad or a good thing just pointing it out as it is bears noting. I believe it saw that mentioned in a Forbes or Reuters article as well regarding the ethnic stats of the country as a whole.

Anecdotally, I have noticed OKC to be much more diverse than it was only 10 years ago which is awesome.

I think he’s saying with the expansion of terms how much is a result of the

“Non Hispanic- white” wasn’t a term commonly used in 2010

It's certainly a complex issue with a lot of disagreement and misunderstanding among the public (e.g. ethnicity vs race), but AFAIK for the census data presented at least Hispanic/not-Hispanic as a separate question from race has been presented that way starting with the 2000 census. So, even if "non-Hispanic white" isn't commonly used colloquially, at the very least that category can be tracked since 2000 (with the usual list of caveats about all census data).

Pretty much people changing how they identify with. Not intending that to be a bad or a good thing just pointing it out as it is bears noting. I believe it saw that mentioned in a Forbes or Reuters article as well regarding the ethnic stats of the country as a whole.

Anecdotally, I have noticed OKC to be much more diverse than it was only 10 years ago which is awesome.

This is definitely part of it. Folks who are half-white or white-looking self-identified as white since there are structural and social benefits to doing so. Now that minority identities are being more and more accepted and equally treated (though there's still lots of work to be done), they can more freely identify as a minority on official government documentation.

Thanks for the clarifications. I read it in more of a tone implying some sort of fraud or nefariousness. Thanks.

It was at times difficult to identify with one race or the other. My poor mother (God rest her soul) walked around with four boys, some looked like one race and others looked like another. She proudly claimed; these are my boys.

Consider myself mixed or multicultural. My mother was of Hispanic-Latino decent; father was Black & Native American. If I were a dog--that would make me a mutt.

Encountered early concerns in school. Below my waist, I'm very light skinned and above I'm much darker. Always felt like I was in a Zoo when it came to showering in gym--felt and knew eyes were on me. Anyway, let's not get into details.

People need to accept you for who you are as a person. That's all that matters.

Oklahoma City & Tulsa areas are the major source of the state's growth.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/12/NOKL/0655db96-1507-4405-936d-a1b7442f23f9-oklahoma_population-01.jpg?width=660&height=509&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Census data release include:


Oklahoma saw a population increase of 208,000, bringing the state's total population to just under 4 million and making it the 28th most
populous state.

The U.S. population grew 7.4% between the 2010 and 2020 census, compared to 5.5% in Oklahoma.

Of Oklahoma's five most populous counties, only Comanche County lost population in the past decade. Comanche County lost 2,973 residents,
down about 2.4%.

Oklahoma County gained 77,659 people, rising from 718,633 to 796,292, a 10.8% change.

Tulsa County gained 65,876 people, from 603,403 then to 669,279, a 10.9% change.

Cleveland County gained 39,773 people, from 255,755 in 2020 to 295,528 now, a 15.6% change.

Canadian County gained 38,864 people, 115,541 to 154,405, a 33.6% change.

Source: Jana Hayes - Oklahoman, Published 501 a.m. CT August 13, 2021


.

Interesting to see Lincoln County post such a deficit being in between the two metro areas and along I-44. I guess it's just far enough out from the OKC metro to get any exurban growth and its main towns of Chandler and Stroud are not growing. Same goes for Osage County; I suspect areas closer to Tulsa and around Skiatook and Pawhuska are showing growth but that is offset by population decreases in the rural towns further west. It will be interesting to see how that changes over the next decade as NW Tulsa grows with the completion of the Gilcrease Expressway and new river bridge as that part of the city is entirely within Osage County.

This is anecdotal but it seems like the area around Luther is growing and will likely continue with the new turnpike. That is right on the Oklahoma-Lincoln County border.

For as much growth as there is in OKC and Tulsa the area in between the two cities is still very rural.

I think it's a great sign that Oklahoma CITY is growing faster than Oklahoma County. 17% versus 10.9%. Hopefully that trend continues unabated. That will make an impact in our legislative representation at the state level.

I'm not surprised that the towns between OKC and Tulsa are not growing: a turnpike isn't terribly conducive to the kind of growth that's happening, say, between San Antonio and Austin.

Also, community leadership in many of the towns along that stretch is not very progressive minded. Hardly an inviting environment for newcomers and / or employers.

^

I just did a long road trip through Missouri, Illinois and Wisconsin.

It makes you realize how sparsely populated Oklahoma is in comparison. There is a whole lot of nothing between Tulsa and OKC and for that matter, pretty much everywhere else in the state.

No significant job opportunities in SW, SE and NW Oklahoma. No reason to stay . Dying towns everywhere. I’ve lamented my hometown Lawton for decades. Lose Ft. Sill, Lawton, Duncan, Altus will literally die

Unfortunately, those sparsely populated and depopulating areas still dominate our state political power. Bring on the exodus. As long as this remains a rurally dominated legislature, don't expect any change at the Capitol (or in the Gov's mansion).

^^^ How does that get changed?

^^^ How does that get changed?

Redistricting, done every 5 to 10 years. They just did it. OKC and Tulsa gained seats, but there are still quite a few too many rural seats.

I think it's a great sign that Oklahoma CITY is growing faster than Oklahoma County. 17% versus 10.9%. Hopefully that trend continues unabated. That will make an impact in our legislative representation at the state level.

I'm not surprised that the towns between OKC and Tulsa are not growing: a turnpike isn't terribly conducive to the kind of growth that's happening, say, between San Antonio and Austin.

Also, community leadership in many of the towns along that stretch is not very progressive minded. Hardly an inviting environment for newcomers and / or employers.

It’s also partly due to the overall growth in both metro areas. In OKC most of the suburban growth is west toward Yukon/Mustang (largest county growth % in OK), to the south in Moore/Norman and north into Edmond/Guthrie. Not as much growth on the east side though that will likely change with the new turnpike in places like Jones, Harrah and Shawnee.

In Tulsa the majority of the growth is south toward Jenks/Bixby, east toward Broken Arrow and north toward Owasso/Collinsville. I see areas to the east continuing to grow along the 412 corridor which will eventually be an interstate. Southwest Tulsa is seeing a good amount of growth and Sapulpa is starting to show signs of growing faster but the west side of Tulsa overall is stigmatized as industrial/blue collar.

Redistricting, done every 5 to 10 years. They just did it. OKC and Tulsa gained seats, but there are still quite a few too many rural seats.
Why didn’t we hear much about it? I saw almost nothing in the news about the redistricting special session in the house.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/08/12/NOKL/0655db96-1507-4405-936d-a1b7442f23f9-oklahoma_population-01.jpg?width=660&height=509&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Love County on the Oklahoma-Texas border is supported by WinStar Casino in Thackerville. An area of growth 5% - 9.9%

Garvin County is a larger version of Valley Brook in south OKC. I've been pulled over in that county a number of times. Highway Patrol would pull me over and ask to search claiming I was speeding; didn't receive a ticket as long as I cooperated and gave permission to search; given verbal warnings. It's a speed trap especially for people of color.

Thackerville could be a key city for the I-35 Rail corridor to Oklahoma City and Wichita.

Why didn’t we hear much about it? I saw almost nothing in the news about the redistricting special session in the house.

I'm not sure how you haven't. This lated census release was specifically FOR redistricting, Federal, state and local governments. It's the actual main, constitutional, reason for the census.

Why didn’t we hear much about it? I saw almost nothing in the news about the redistricting special session in the house.

There's been multiple rounds of town halls, etc. And I believe they're going to have to redraw them based on the latest census data. There has been plenty of attention.

I’ve seen the news about the census counts but not anything regarding redistricting in Oklahoma. Last I heard was back in April/may when the regular legislative session was ending and how a special session was going to be had in mid august. I haven’t heard anything since.

Regarding rural depopulation, its seems like less and less actual farms in rural Oklahoma. I am on a facebook group about forgotten Oklahoma, the pictures show how hard life on a farm was and how really poor some of those people were, now i am understanding why its happening. The land is not really good for farming unless you farm large tracts or run cattle on them. Granted Oklahoma was not the farm land that say Iowa or Illinois is, but its sad that we dont have more real farms/ranches. Sad to see small towns dying or almost dead. Lots of empty main streets.

^^^^^^
It's also thanks to industrialization of farming; both from a mechanization standpoint (fewer hands required) and a corporate farming and food processing standpoint.

I've been bashed for proposing this before but I'd love to see some new national park and BLM lands in Oklahoma. It would obviously require relocating thousands of people in rural areas.

No significant job opportunities in SW, SE and NW Oklahoma. No reason to stay . Dying towns everywhere. I’ve lamented my hometown Lawton for decades. Lose Ft. Sill, Lawton, Duncan, Altus will literally die

As long as the military bases remain in Lawton and Altus, they will never really die. I think Enid got back over 50,000, where there is also a military base, so that is good for NW Oklahoma. Other rural towns with institutions of higher learning have that to fall back on. It's unfortunate Stillwater hasn't attracted major industry, even though it's had air service to DFW since 2016. It's a needed service for north central Oklahoma which gets used enough to keep.

I've always found it interesting that Oklahoma seems to have almost no small charming towns that are actually pleasant and fun to be in. I don't mean to offend anyone here that lives in one and takes pride in it. Medicine Park is cool but needs more commercial business and beautification in regards to its infrastructure(a common theme in OK). Really the only cool small town I've been in Oklahoma is Sulphur and Davis. They have cool urban and lively centers. Tishomingo is cool and I swear I saw Gwen Stefani walking down the street once(before she was married to Blake) but I couldn't confirm.

I've always found it interesting that Oklahoma seems to have almost no small charming towns that are actually pleasant and fun to be in. I don't mean to offend anyone here that lives in one and takes pride in it. Medicine Park is cool but needs more commercial business and beautification in regards to its infrastructure(a common theme in OK). Really the only cool small town I've been in Oklahoma is Sulphur and Davis. They have cool urban and lively centers. Tishomingo is cool and I swear I saw Gwen Stefani walking down the street once(before she was married to Blake) but I couldn't confirm.

Grove and Tahlequah are nice, but yeah, the vast majority of Oklahoma small towns are pretty awful.

Grove and Tahlequah are nice, but yeah, the vast majority of Oklahoma small towns are pretty awful.
Tahlequah looks pretty cool but I haven't been there. The biggest difference to me that describes it perfectly is the difference between Siloam Springs and West Siloam Springs. One is in Oklahoma and one is in Arkansas. One is very vibrant and beautiful and the other is run down and dilatated. They aren't the far from each other either.

^^^^^^
It's also thanks to industrialization of farming; both from a mechanization standpoint (fewer hands required) and a corporate farming and food processing standpoint.

And the fact these big corporate farmers are not going into the little town to get a sack of chicken feed or buy a new hammer.

And they don't use the local banks or much of anything that gave small towns a reason for existing.


I spent a couple of days in Carnegie researching the Farmers Bank story and while it has its charm, there is almost nothing left in what was a nice little downtown. What business would go in there these days? Obviously, not many which is why almost every small town in the U.S. has a near-abandoned core.

At the same time, anything over 5,000 people gets a huge Walmart on the outskirts and the dollar stores are aggressively moving into small towns as well.

Ironically, modern times allow for many people to work from anywhere but there is nothing much left in small towns to build on. And forget about healthcare, as it's a full-on crisis almost everywhere outside a decent-sized MSA.


If you want acreage, there are plenty of places on the outskirts of OKC and other cities where you still have access to everything you could need/want.

Very hard to imagine many of these little towns ever turning around.

I've always found it interesting that Oklahoma seems to have almost no small charming towns that are actually pleasant and fun to be in. I don't mean to offend anyone here that lives in one and takes pride in it. Medicine Park is cool but needs more commercial business and beautification in regards to its infrastructure(a common theme in OK). Really the only cool small town I've been in Oklahoma is Sulphur and Davis. They have cool urban and lively centers. Tishomingo is cool and I swear I saw Gwen Stefani walking down the street once(before she was married to Blake) but I couldn't confirm.

On the contrary the small downtowns in the communities around OKC and Tulsa are improving. Edmond, Norman, Owasso, Jenks and Broken Arrow have all built up their downtowns with new projects over the past decade.

Bartlesville has a nice downtown area, and Pawhuska, while small, is pretty charming. Definitely Tahlequah that is a great small town in one of the most scenic parts of OK.

Bartlesville is another one I need to go to. Osage County in general looks beautiful and it’d be awesome to see a sprawling metropolis around NE Tulsa one day.

This is IMO what is lacking in small towns across Oklahoma. Without jobs with high wages other aspects that support a vibrant town are absent like infrastructure and shopping and entertainment options.

https://advisorsmith.com/data/top-cities-where-u-s-manufacturing-is-thriving/

Many large manufacturers have huge manufacturing operations in rural and small towns. Oklahoma does not, period! This has been my greatest angst with my home state, how leaders are elected/reelected when they fail to deliver more than asinine legislation that leads to ridicule.
People don't seem to mind being ranked near the bottom of so many economic, educational, health rankings.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I do not see Oklahoma ever moving past mediocrity without a change in expectation and willingness to change if those placed in positions to make good public policy fail to do so.

I believe southern Oklahoma and a couple towns along I-44 in NE OK have large distribution centers.

I believe southern Oklahoma and a couple towns along I-44 in NE OK have large distribution centers.

Name/ No employees, City/Town location

Name/ No employees, City/Town location

Ardmore has Dollar General, Best Buy, DOT Foods, a Michelin factory, a Valero refinery, The Noble Foundation (although they did just layoff some staff as they transition to Regenerative Ranching), two airports, one airport that the Chickasaw are about to pump millions into making it a distribution hub..... A vibrant arts and music scene along with a thriving downtown.

Heck they even have reverse parking downtown now and created a Depot District around the Heartland Flyer depot that includes a park where they relocated the Mercy Train to.

Durant appears to be doing quite well with the casino there but I'm not as familiar with Durant as I am with Ardmore.

Tahlequah is noted for its Illinois River scenic floats. Also home to Northeastern State University with an enrollment of roughly 8,500 students of which 85% are in undergraduate study.


https://integrisok.com/-/media/blog/float.ashx?as=1&mh=405&mw=720&usecustomfunctions=1&relativeresize=1&revision=b76b38b0-5bce-466d-893d-434eb0586599&hash=5316DD1EF3E2E381A93CFB058DEF9BF3E2400962

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/12/6f/1a/03/eagle-bluff-resort.jpg?w=900&h=-1&s=1

https://illinoisriver.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/r960-9c78be6d8ac2d7aceff57594b76febd81.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipM3IdZwl6O-U6u9LKOZH9mi_gRIIteKkfHGaFcn=w1080-k-no

http://www.hangingrockfloats.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2036270_orig.jpg

The Illinois River is the most scenic part of Oklahoma, right there with Turner Falls in Davis, Oklahoma.

Enjoy making my reservations at Eagle Bluff Floats. There are anywhere from 8 - 10 resorts that offer 5 - 10 to 20 miles float trips. You will really enjoy a good ole Oklahoma float trip. Tahlequah also offer cabin accommodations. The water is clear, you can see the Rainbow Trout as you float the Illinois. Each resort has large to mini-buses to take you to your desired float trip.

If you haven't been to this area in Oklahoma, it's one the whole family will enjoy. Most of the river dept ranges from 4 to 10 feet dept with areas under the Bridge up to 20 feet.

.

Ardmore has Dollar General, Best Buy, DOT Foods, a Michelin factory, a Valero refinery, The Noble Foundation (although they did just layoff some staff as they transition to Regenerative Ranching), two airports, one airport that the Chickasaw are about to pump millions into making it a distribution hub..... A vibrant arts and music scene along with a thriving downtown.

Heck they even have reverse parking downtown now and created a Depot District around the Heartland Flyer depot that includes a park where they relocated the Mercy Train to.

Durant appears to be doing quite well with the casino there but I'm not as familiar with Durant as I am with Ardmore.

Durant has a Big Lots Distribution Center. I don't know how many employees they have, but I found an old news article from 2001 when the center opened and it notes 500 employees. But I couldn't tell you if that's anywhere close to the right number. I've been gone for 30+ years, but my home town is doing quite well. The Choctaw resort just opened a third tower, 21 stories and 1,000 rooms, bringing the total rooms to 1,700. When I lived there they opened a McDonalds in 1984'ish and that was a huge deal!

Bartlesville is another one I need to go to. Osage County in general looks beautiful and it’d be awesome to see a sprawling metropolis around NE Tulsa one day.

Really. Bartlesville, like Guthrie, is a rare and unique Oklahoma town in its own special way. Fortunately, Bartlesville hasn't been on the decline, like so many other Oklahoma towns.

Bartlesville is another one I need to go to. Osage County in general looks beautiful and it’d be awesome to see a sprawling metropolis around NE Tulsa one day.

Bartlesville IS nice. But doesn't remotely feel like a small town. But it's also not exactly rural being in Tulsa's CSA area. I wasn't actually thinking of metro area suburban towns, that's a completely different thing than rural Oklahoma.

Osage County is very beautiful and its landscape is not much like anywhere else in the state, it's really impressive up in the Osage Hills on the prairie. Pawhuska lately is getting much better, but overall is still pretty run down. I'm hopeful the town can continue to develop tourism, it has a ton of potential and great old buildings. A lot of oil money built that town. The other towns out in the middle of the county are much worse. It's a huge county, about the same size as Rhode Island, and most of it is empty of people. Tulsa is actually the largest city in Osage County, just the small northwest part of the city in the county. The only stop lights in Osage County are in Tulsa and Skiatook, and most of Skiatook is also in Tulsa County.

Not to pic nits but isn't thete at least one light in downtown Pawhuska? Seems there wasbwhen my wife and l were there a couple of years ago.

Not to pic nits but isn't thete at least one light in downtown Pawhuska? Seems there wasbwhen my wife and l were there a couple of years ago.

There is a stoplight in Pawhuska just east of downtown at Main and Lynn Avenue (Big American Flag on the southeast corner), however, the intersection was tunred into a four way stop with blinking red lights. It's been like this since at least 2007.

Durant has a Big Lots Distribution Center. I don't know how many employees they have, but I found an old news article from 2001 when the center opened and it notes 500 employees. But I couldn't tell you if that's anywhere close to the right number. I've been gone for 30+ years, but my home town is doing quite well. The Choctaw resort just opened a third tower, 21 stories and 1,000 rooms, bringing the total rooms to 1,700. When I lived there they opened a McDonalds in 1984'ish and that was a huge deal!

Durant also has Commercial Metals Company, Cardinal Glass, Indian Nation Wholesale, Eagle Suspensions, SteelFab, Webstaurant, The Tile Shop, Hitchcock Distribution, Tubecex, to name a few.

Cardinal Glass just finished a $25 million expansion a few months ago, for a total investment of $300 million in Durant. CMC opened in 2018 and was also a $300 million investment.

Bartlesville IS nice. But doesn't remotely feel like a small town. But it's also not exactly rural being in Tulsa's CSA area. I wasn't actually thinking of metro area suburban towns, that's a completely different thing than rural Oklahoma.

Osage County is very beautiful and its landscape is not much like anywhere else in the state, it's really impressive up in the Osage Hills on the prairie. Pawhuska lately is getting much better, but overall is still pretty run down. I'm hopeful the town can continue to develop tourism, it has a ton of potential and great old buildings. A lot of oil money built that town. The other towns out in the middle of the county are much worse. It's a huge county, about the same size as Rhode Island, and most of it is empty of people. Tulsa is actually the largest city in Osage County, just the small northwest part of the city in the county. The only stop lights in Osage County are in Tulsa and Skiatook, and most of Skiatook is also in Tulsa County.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/10/41/ca104197ce717fff730987b545e4ac36.jpg

Tallest Buildings

# Building Height

https://picture.phorio.com/photo/403261507/200-crop/image.jpg
1 Phillips Petroleum Building 292 ft
https://image.phorio.com/photo/340930169/200-crop/image.jpg
2 Plaza Office Building 247 ft
https://www.emporis.com/images/show/112745-Large-fullheightview-view-to-the-north.jpg
3 Phillips Tower 228 ft
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/13/e2/41/price-tower-exterior.jpg
4 Price Tower Arts Center 191 ft
Frank Lloyd Wright's World Renowned Price Tower

Name/ No employees, City/Town location

In addition to what Roger said there’s also the dollar tree distribution center in Thackerville and I believe Miami and some other towns along the I-44 corridor have major business operations but can’t remember them exactly.

There is a stoplight in Pawhuska just east of downtown at Main and Lynn Avenue (Big American Flag on the southeast corner), however, the intersection was tunred into a four way stop with blinking red lights. It's been like this since at least 2007.

Just a flashing light for at least the last 20 years. Not a stop light.

Bartlesville is another one I need to go to. Osage County in general looks beautiful and it’d be awesome to see a sprawling metropolis around NE Tulsa one day.

If you got to Bartlesville, you have to get lunch at Murphy's and get a hot hamburger. My fiancé's family is from Bartlesville and it's a requirement for every visit.

And obviously see the Frank Lloyd Wright's Price Tower, and Frank Phillips Home.

Ardmore has Dollar General, Best Buy, DOT Foods, a Michelin factory, a Valero refinery, The Noble Foundation (although they did just layoff some staff as they transition to Regenerative Ranching), two airports, one airport that the Chickasaw are about to pump millions into making it a distribution hub..... A vibrant arts and music scene along with a thriving downtown.

Heck they even have reverse parking downtown now and created a Depot District around the Heartland Flyer depot that includes a park where they relocated the Mercy Train to.

Durant appears to be doing quite well with the casino there but I'm not as familiar with Durant as I am with Ardmore.

Durant also just added a large high tech steel mill called CMC Steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwPYWKvFYM

^^^ How does that get changed?

I don't know. We would almost have to rewrite the state constitution. It's a miscrocosmic version of the US.

States with insane population size like California have the same number of US Senators as states like Wyoming and North Dakota, which is insanely undemocratic.

Similarly, the electoral college shifts power to places where no one lives.

Yet, if the demographic and population trends continue, the OKC Metro area would have a much larger share of political power than it does now. The way Senate districts are apportioned would still shift more power to depopulated areas than it should.

Tahlequah is noted for its Illinois River scenic floats. Also home to Northeastern State University with an enrollment of roughly 8,500 students of which 85% are in undergraduate study.


https://integrisok.com/-/media/blog/float.ashx?as=1&mh=405&mw=720&usecustomfunctions=1&relativeresize=1&revision=b76b38b0-5bce-466d-893d-434eb0586599&hash=5316DD1EF3E2E381A93CFB058DEF9BF3E2400962

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/12/6f/1a/03/eagle-bluff-resort.jpg?w=900&h=-1&s=1

https://illinoisriver.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/r960-9c78be6d8ac2d7aceff57594b76febd81.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipM3IdZwl6O-U6u9LKOZH9mi_gRIIteKkfHGaFcn=w1080-k-no

http://www.hangingrockfloats.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2036270_orig.jpg

The Illinois River is the most scenic part of Oklahoma, right there with Turner Falls in Davis, Oklahoma.

Enjoy making my reservations at Eagle Bluff Floats. There are anywhere from 8 - 10 resorts that offer 5 - 10 to 20 miles float trips. You will really enjoy a good ole Oklahoma float trip. Tahlequah also offer cabin accommodations. The water is clear, you can see the Rainbow Trout as you float the Illinois. Each resort has large to mini-buses to take you to your desired float trip.

If you haven't been to this area in Oklahoma, it's one the whole family will enjoy. Most of the river dept ranges from 4 to 10 feet dept with areas under the Bridge up to 20 feet.

.

Two enormous thumbs up for Tahlequah. It is a special place. It has cultural resources than much larger cities do not. HQ for the Cherokee Nation. Nascent artist community with hippie vibes. Beautiful scenery and launchpad to the Ozarks. Charming and historic downtown and quality museums. Somewhat progressive leadership (and even voting patterns).

Bartlesville is a shadow of its former self. From being the Phillips HQ to having back office Conoco-Phillips jobs, to losing half of those jobs. It has nice buildings, a couple of decent restaurants and not much else.

Tahlequah has city, state, county, tribal and federal government employment. Plus a pretty good sized university. Plus a vibrant and stable tourism economy. Its access to lakes and the outdoors (plus other industry, like commercial gardening) keeps it growing.

You don't understand what a democracy is or what the term republic means. Now lets get back on topic.

Notable takeaways from City, County, Metro & State Census data release include:

Oklahoma saw a population increase of B]2[08,000 5.5%[/B], bringing the state's total population to just under 4 million and making it the 28th most populous state.

Oklahoma City statistical metropolitan area, which includes seven central Oklahoma counties, grew by 172,708, a 13.8% change. Much of that growth occurred in Canadian County, which saw a 33.6% population increase and was 27th in percentage growth out of more than 3,000 American counties.

Oklahoma City is one of only 14 American cities where the population grew by more than 100,000 between 2010 and 2020, as almost two-thirds of Oklahoma counties were losing residents.

Oklahoma County gained 77,659 people, rising from 718,633 to 796,292, a 10.8% change.

Oklahoma City added 101,055 people since the 2010 Census, the U.S. Census Bureau reported.


208,000 - 5.5% - State of Oklahoma- 3,959,353
172,708 - 13.8% - Oklahoma City MSA - 1,425,695
101,055 - 17.0% - Oklahoma City - 681,054
77,659 - 10.8% - Oklahoma County - 796,292

.

With so many counties losing population,well losing population over a long term, has anyone ever thought about combining counties? Back in the day when the state was being formed, back when you had a person or family living on almost every quarter section, roads where little more then paths and people got around with horses/wagons or early automobiles, it made sense to have lots of towns close by and smaller counties so that they would not have to travel so far to the county seat to do business. Now with better roads and vehicles, less people, can we still afford to have so many counties with say less then 20,000 or even some less then 5000 people? Just say school districts have gone through consolidations to save money, what about combining counties? Thoughts about having only say one county in the panhandle or far southwest or other places in Oklahoma? Maybe I should have started a separate thread. I guess I am thinking these trends will continue as some counties will continue to lose population.

With so many counties losing population,well losing population over a long term, has anyone ever thought about combining counties? Back in the day when the state was being formed, back when you had a person or family living on almost every quarter section, roads where little more then paths and people got around with horses/wagons or early automobiles, it made sense to have lots of towns close by and smaller counties so that they would not have to travel so far to the county seat to do business. Now with better roads and vehicles, less people, can we still afford to have so many counties with say less then 20,000 or even some less then 5000 people? Just say school districts have gone through consolidations to save money, what about combining counties? Thoughts about having only say one county in the panhandle or far southwest or other places in Oklahoma? Maybe I should have started a separate thread. I guess I am thinking these trends will continue as some counties will continue to lose population.
Consolidation should absolutely happen, but likely won’t for all the usual reasons (money, power, etc.).

I couldn’t agree more with consolidation on multiple levels but then there’s people here that will claim it doesn’t save that much and isn’t worth it which I disagree with.

I couldn’t agree more with consolidation on multiple levels but then there’s people here that will claim it doesn’t save that much and isn’t worth it which I disagree with.

I have no problem with it, but the tiny rural school districts do, and guess what? Our overlords at the State Capitol mostly represent those tiny burgs so it's never going to happen unless we have a wholesale change in who represents us.

I don't know. We would almost have to rewrite the state constitution. It's a miscrocosmic version of the US.

States with insane population size like California have the same number of US Senators as states like Wyoming and North Dakota, which is insanely undemocratic.

Similarly, the electoral college shifts power to places where no one lives.

There is a very valid, legitimate reason for this. The US has two houses of it's congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate. As you probably know, the House takes into account population relative to the country as a whole, so states like California, TX, NY, FL, and IL have way more representatives than WY, ND, SD, and AK which is entirely democratic. This serves the nation well since the House is closer to the people with shorter terms and generally deals with social issues.

The Senate was purposefully meant to be equal in nature given the longer terms and that it's mainly focused on financing. Similarly, for the electoral college, it is a hybrid of the two given the magnitude of it's outcome; you want some paraty among the country in chosing the world's most powerful leader although the EC does have a democratic component (following the House) where more populated states get more votes. In fact, I fail to see how this is hurting California or NY since they receive MOST of the funding, most of the press, and most of the benefits of the US federal government despite their not always having their way with chosing the leadership (a good thing IMO).


Yet, if the demographic and population trends continue, the OKC Metro area would have a much larger share of political power than it does now. The way Senate districts are apportioned would still shift more power to depopulated areas than it should.

I agree with you about the state, OKC should have WAY more control since it is the dominant population base (17.5% city, 37% metro) for the state. With Tulsa being 10%/25%, could you imagine the urban things that would get done if the State House reflected a metropolitan base of 62% of representatives? Well that's what the population disparity predicts and if OKC and TUL could agree on things - this state would be in a much better position.

I understand the reasoning for it, what the founders intended, etc. But in its modern application it is not representative. A minority party can maintain a grip on power as a result, denying representative democracy for those in states with larger populations.

That's why, even as OKC gains more representation, the small rural areas that are literally losing people, will maintain a grip on power in the future.

that may not necessarily be a bad thing sooner guru. The population base does have the most power on social issues and society via the house but it does make sense to have parity on the finances and the leadership.

If everything were population based then the US would cease to exist in its current form and would become far more left and socialist as a result, which would be a HUGE mistake to the 'democracy' argument. I'm glad our forefathers thought this through and came up with a concept that would retain the US Government as a representative republic rather than a true democracy. While Americans are very intelligent and affluent, there are many who use politics just for the sake of power - to the detriment of society they claim to protect. Nice to always have a counter-balance where no party gets to big.

Now if Oklahoma could get it's House of Representatives in order (balanced) then we'll stop being the laughing stock of the nation, as a society.