New hatred of immigration! Hahaha holy sh!@

I saw that too. Comments like that are why we cannot have an honest discussion about the crisis at our border

Decent growth.

Being from Tulsa, it hurts to see their population growth stagnate so much. Hope the new mayor and maybe some new policies can kickstart some growth soon. I assume they're trying, but diversifying from O&G would help a lot in that regard.

Tulsa is definitely more reliant on O&G and doesn’t have as diversified an economy as OKC. Luckily that is (slowly) changing and I would expect to start seeing growth pick up there. Lots of really positive developments currently in the works that should pay off in the next decade.

I saw that too. Comments like that are why we cannot have an honest discussion about the crisis at our border
Guess you haven’t been watching Fox/TrumpTV in a couple of years or been on Twitter.

Would love to see this country and current leadership have an HONEST discussion. Isn’t happening.

so... taking this back to not being political.... 13k is really pretty good growth

More evidence the rural areas across the country continue to lose population to the cities, and in many cases just a handful of cities concentrated in the south and west. Interesting to see how the recent oil downturn has affected previously booming counties in North Dakota, Wyoming, and NW Oklahoma yet the counties in the Permian Basin are still booming. And then there's Puerto Rico..

https://www.census.gov/content/census/en/library/visualizations/2019/comm/percent-pop-change-county/jcr:content/map.detailitem.950.high.jpg/1555532084818.jpg

This is an important map for people to take into consideration. You see a lot of talk about how the rural counties of Oklahoma are losing population. This just goes to show it's not an Oklahoma thing. That being said, I'd like to see Lawton and Enid come up with grand plans to get them growing. Lawton shouldn't be too hard considering it's along I-44 and has the military base there. Enid, would be a bit more difficult because of it's location.

Also goes to show how strengthening the I35 corridor should be a priority for symbiotic growth. We can be the top point of a huge economic triangle area from San Antonio/Austin, Houston and OKC, with Dallas as the heart. Need high speed rail and improved I-35.

Also goes to show how strengthening the I35 corridor should be a priority for symbiotic growth. We can be the top point of a huge economic triangle area from San Antonio/Austin, Houston and OKC, with Dallas as the heart. Need high speed rail and improved I-35.

Agree, most maps showing the “Texas Triangle” show OKC and Tulsa as the northern extents:
http://www.america2050.org/images/Texas_Triangle.png

Conversely there is a “Mid-South” growth region that has emerged with booming Nashville at the center and the equally booming Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham metros anchoring it at the east end. Then you have economic laggards Memphis and Little Rock but also the booming Northwest Arkansas Metro anchoring the west. No reason OKC/Tulsa couldn’t be similar western anchors for this sub-region that roughly parallels I-40.

that map is interesting in that it shows growth in the middle and large metros but declines in the rural AND largest mega metros. Note that LA county, Cook county, and the NY city counties all appear to be declining as are declines or tepid growth of their surrounding metro counties.

It appears my state (Washington) and Delaware are the hottest for growth in that we nave no counties in orange. Interesting about Multnomah County (Portland OR) being orange. ....

Agree, most maps showing the “Texas Triangle” show OKC and Tulsa as the northern extents:
http://www.america2050.org/images/Texas_Triangle.png

Conversely there is a “Mid-South” growth region that has emerged with booming Nashville at the center and the equally booming Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham metros anchoring it at the east end. Then you have economic laggards Memphis and Little Rock but also the booming Northwest Arkansas Metro anchoring the west. No reason OKC/Tulsa couldn’t be similar western anchors for this sub-region that roughly parallels I-40.

I doubt this for the simple fact that the industries are not similar among the I-40 communities unlike how the industries ARE for the lower I-35 communities.

O/G, Diversified Energy, Federal Government, Military/Defense, Aerospace, and Health Care/Research are common industries leading/linking OKC with Dallas, Houston, SA and to a lesser extent Austin (where IT and public research is higher) and Tulsa (more manufacturing based). Hence the reason why there's also a significant amount of air traffic in the I-35 corridor, (notice amount/frequency of the private planes) between Dallas, Houston, OKC, SA in particular and why it might make sense for HSR between OKC and Houston as well. ....

Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area 2018-2017:
1,396,445 - 1,383,242 increase +13,196

At this rate of increase over the previous 3 years, Oklahoma City MSA should exceed 1,440,000 when the 2020 report comes out in 2021.

How OKC compares to our NBA small market peers:
Memphis 1,350,620 - 1,347,596 increase +3.044
Milwaukee 1,576,113 - 1,575,151 increase +962
New Orleans 1,270,399 - 1,270,465 decrease -66
Oklahoma City 1,396,445 - 1,383,242 increase +13,196
Salt Lake City 1,222,340 - 1,205,238 increase +17,305

We are the core of our state's population increase.

So OKC is the 4th smallest market at 1.4M for all intents and purposes:

bottom 5 NBA markets:

* Milwaukee
* Oklahoma City
* Memphis
* New Orleans
* Salt Lake City

Also goes to show how strengthening the I35 corridor should be a priority for symbiotic growth. We can be the top point of a huge economic triangle area from San Antonio/Austin, Houston and OKC, with Dallas as the heart. Need high speed rail and improved I-35.

I've long thought that about 35 and 44. Ardmore would be a good start for a lot of distribution and manufacturing considering it's location between OKC and Dallas. I'm not sure how it would work with the area between OKC and Tulsa considering there's no real decent sized towns out there. The ticket there might just be Tulsa getting growing faster than it is and maybe building some industry along the turnpike in the small towns.

I've long thought that about 35 and 44. Ardmore would be a good start for a lot of distribution and manufacturing considering it's location between OKC and Dallas. I'm not sure how it would work with the area between OKC and Tulsa considering there's no real decent sized towns out there. The ticket there might just be Tulsa getting growing faster than it is and maybe building some industry along the turnpike in the small towns.

Too bad Stillwater isn’t another 40 miles to the south along I-44. I don’t see too much growth happening in Chandler, Stroud or Bristow. Oklahoma can’t even get a slow train up and running between OKC and Tulsa, high speed rail to Texas seems like a far off fantasy at this point.

Too bad Stillwater isn’t another 40 miles to the south along I-44. I don’t see too much growth happening in Chandler, Stroud or Bristow. Oklahoma can’t even get a slow train up and running between OKC and Tulsa, high speed rail to Texas seems like a far off fantasy at this point.

Actually they did a study back about 7 years for HSR from Dallas OKC and it was picking up steam & seemed viable . however funding seemed like the biggest issue. Texas was all for it, it was the Oklahoma funding which derailed it.

yep, I was going to say OKC-DAL-HOU is totally doable even just considering the premium business traffic it could capture. Might be less of those execujets however but a 1-3 hour trip would negate the air hassle.

that map is interesting in that it shows growth in the middle and large metros but declines in the rural AND largest mega metros. Note that LA county, Cook county, and the NY city counties all appear to be declining as are declines or tepid growth of their surrounding metro counties.

It appears my state (Washington) and Delaware are the hottest for growth in that we nave no counties in orange. Interesting about Multnomah County (Portland OR) being orange. ....

It's so skinny that it can barely be seen, but Multnomah County is light purple.

Also interesting to note that Oklahoma County has added 104 people/sq mi since 2010 while Tulsa County has added 79 people/sq mi.

Actually they did a study back about 7 years for HSR from Dallas OKC and it was picking up steam & seemed viable . however funding seemed like the biggest issue. Texas was all for it, it was the Oklahoma funding which derailed it.

I went to a public meeting for this, it was a joint meeting with ODOT and TXDOT. Basically they said a private entity is already going to build an HSR between Dallas and Houston and they wanted to explore if there was value in extending it up to OKC. I _THOUGHT_ that I had heard construction of the Houston/Dallas HSR was underway by now but not sure where things are between ODOT/TXDOT extension wise.

I went to a public meeting for this, it was a joint meeting with ODOT and TXDOT. Basically they said a private entity is already going to build an HSR between Dallas and Houston and they wanted to explore if there was value in extending it up to OKC. I _THOUGHT_ that I had heard construction of the Houston/Dallas HSR was underway by now but not sure where things are between ODOT/TXDOT extension wise.

Link to Tex project:

https://www.texascentral.com/alignment-maps/

I would love to see how the rail alignment could go from it's current termination point south of Downtown through the north part of the city to Denton. The cost would have to be astronomical.

This is an important map for people to take into consideration. You see a lot of talk about how the rural counties of Oklahoma are losing population. This just goes to show it's not an Oklahoma thing. That being said, I'd like to see Lawton and Enid come up with grand plans to get them growing. Lawton shouldn't be too hard considering it's along I-44 and has the military base there. Enid, would be a bit more difficult because of it's location.
Hopefully, Stillwater can quit struggling to get over the 50,000 mark in population in time for 2020, if it hasn't already. The Stillwater micropolitan area increased by only 173 people in 2018. Maybe Cushing is still having trouble holding on to its numbers. If all the traffic lights downtown are still flashing red after the 2016 earthquake, it's giving off a foreboding, uninviting impression of the town at least to me.

Maybe it's already been brought up in this long, old thread, but Oklahoma needs to eliminate the state corporate income tax to help Oklahoma City and Tulsa grow. I think the only thing that would block doing that is failure at the state capitol on how to hike taxes or create a new tax to make up for lost revenues. But maybe a case can be made with doing nothing after corporate income tax is abolished.

But, but, then corporations wouldn't be paying tttttttaxes!

But, but, then corporations wouldn't be paying tttttttaxes!

Great. Maybe corporations will want to pass on their savings by lowering prices and giving raises to employees. At any rate, businesses won't be closing, due to problems with the Oklahoma Tax Commission.

Great. Maybe corporations will want to pass on their savings by lowering prices and giving raises to employees. At any rate, businesses won't be closing, due to problems with the Oklahoma Tax Commission.

Trump's tax cuts have proven that corporations will be greedy, and will just keep the profits for their C-suite. I am all for a lower tax rate for corporate entities. But getting rid of it completely helps no one except the wealthy.

Lets take this back to topic

Lets take this back to topic
That’s rich after your prior post.

Lets take this back to topic

How ironic.

Too bad Stillwater isn’t another 40 miles to the south along I-44. I don’t see too much growth happening in Chandler, Stroud or Bristow. Oklahoma can’t even get a slow train up and running between OKC and Tulsa, high speed rail to Texas seems like a far off fantasy at this point.

Will never happen, but I think getting some growth in the towns between OKC and Tulsa would be an easier proposition if they stopped tolling that portion of I-44.

That’s rich after your prior post.

I realized what l did and took it back. I doubt anyone has a problem with that.

I realized what l did and took it back. I doubt anyone has a problem with that.

I do. (just kidding)

To be real, though, Oklahoma City is the only part of the state that is growing. Tulsa is treading water. The rest of the state is essentially dying, both economically and in terms of population. And when you witness the moronic politicians from Oklahoma's rural areas, it's not hard to understand why young people and smart people in those places want to GTFO ASAP (unless they inherit the family business).

So OKC is growing in spite of this state.

Certain people who live in OK see what goes on in OK end think it's such a horrible place. Texas passes laws that are similar or worse than OK yet it can barely keep up with its population growth. People in California are doing all they can do to overtax and eliminate their middle class so that it's getting where the only people left are entertainers, high tech workers earning huge salaries end mega-wealthy IPO moguls. For all the complaints from Dems about wealth disparity, all they have to do is look at their own state. The point is, most all states have their own problems and the grass in OK may be more green than most negative Okies realize.

I do. (just kidding)

To be real, though, Oklahoma City is the only part of the state that is growing. Tulsa is treading water. The rest of the state is essentially dying, both economically and in terms of population. And when you witness the moronic politicians from Oklahoma's rural areas, it's not hard to understand why young people and smart people in those places want to GTFO ASAP (unless they inherit the family business).

So OKC is growing in spite of this state.

That is generally true, but lets give credit to a couple of exceptions to the rule. Durant and to a less extent Stillwater have been growing. If some of the Tulsa suburbs hadn't been growing fast, metro Tulsa would have a loss.

I think you'll find Oklahoma is no different from other states. The rural areas have been slowly draining out for years, while the major metro areas are quite likely the only places where there is some degree of growth.

That is generally true, but lets give credit to a couple of exceptions to the rule. Durant and to a less extent Stillwater have been growing. If some of the Tulsa suburbs hadn't been growing fast, metro Tulsa would have a loss.

I think you'll find Oklahoma is no different from other states. The rural areas have been slowly draining out for years, while the major metro areas are quite likely the only places where there is some degree of growth.

Tulsa metro has still seen 5.7% growth since 2010, it has slowed in the past couple years with the pullback in the energy industry which has also slowed growth in the OKC metro and across the state (especially the NW counties).

Outside of the OKC and Tulsa metro area counties, Payne County due to OSU and Bryan County due to DFW spillover you won't see much growth or more likely continued population decreases in every other Oklahoma county. Comanche County could see growth due to Fort Sill, same with Garfield County due to Vance AFB. As DFW continues to march north you could see growth in Love and Marshall counties. Delaware County in NE OK attracts a number of retirees to Grand Lake so it could see growth as well as spillover from fast-growing NW Arkansas,

I will be interested to see how all of our census data comes out next year. Hopefully we don't lose out on an electoral vote!

That is generally true, but lets give credit to a couple of exceptions to the rule. Durant and to a less extent Stillwater have been growing. If some of the Tulsa suburbs hadn't been growing fast, metro Tulsa would have a loss.

I think you'll find Oklahoma is no different from other states. The rural areas have been slowly draining out for years, while the major metro areas are quite likely the only places where there is some degree of growth.

That may be true but our state government serves rural interests more than urban interests. Other states apportion more power to urban areas. When will this change in Oklahoma?

Certain people who live in OK see what goes on in OK end think it's such a horrible place. Texas passes laws that are similar or worse than OK yet it can barely keep up with its population growth. People in California are doing all they can do to overtax and eliminate their middle class so that it's getting where the only people left are entertainers, high tech workers earning huge salaries end mega-wealthy IPO moguls. For all the complaints from Dems about wealth disparity, all they have to do is look at their own state. The point is, most all states have their own problems and the grass in OK may be more green than most negative Okies realize.

You're right that Texas' state government has much of the same reactionary type legislation that Oklahoma does (especially more recently) but there are a few areas where Texas is significantly better and it's not even arguable, most notably education and infrastructure. That stuff matters when it comes to stimulating economic growth and attracting corporate relocations. With that said, I don't think politics alone can explain all of Oklahoma's problems. I think it's a factor, but it's really a much more complex problem. I think the biggest factor is the simple fact that Oklahoma doesn't really have any metro areas comparable Dallas or Houston or even Austin/San Antonio. Nationally, smaller metro areas aren't quite booming the way larger metro areas are.


That may be true but our state government serves rural interests more than urban interests. Other states apportion more power to urban areas. When will this change in Oklahoma?

Good point here. Two-thirds of the population of the state of Oklahoma lives in the metro areas yet it seems like the state government still heavily favors rural interests. This is an issue in Texas as well to some extent, but their metro areas are so much larger than OK that it's hard to really compare.

“Nationally smaller metros aren’t booming the way larger ones are”

This is simply inaccurate depending on how you want to define growth.

“Nationally smaller metros aren’t booming the way larger ones are”

This is simply inaccurate depending on how you want to define growth.

Or how "smaller" is defined. I should have been more specific.

What I meant is that most metro areas around the size of OKC aren't doing much better or worse. I'd say OKC is around the middle of the pack, doing better than say Memphis or Birmingham but lagging behind Salt Lake City and Raleigh. That's simply going off raw growth numbers.

I’m not sure if you haven’t kept up with Birmingham but they are really seeing some big investment with auto manufacturers and space industry. I was actually very impressed with the city which shocked me.

Memphis is generally viewed as the armpit of Tennessee with even Knoxville looking down on it. Nashville tends to get all of the favoritism from the state.

Raleigh is absolutely on fire though recent efforts to build light rail were shot down due to a university and some powers that be having turned back on a decision to build it. Other than that they are making huge progress.

I’m not sure you’ve ever been to SLC but that city is incredible and is years ahead of OKC. Just due to the amount of tourism it draws, it will be hard for OKC to ever really compete with them depending on how you want to define being in competition.

There are tons of metros like the Boise, Spokane-Coeur d’Alene, Omaha, Des Moines, Fayetteville, etc. which all could easily catch up and eclipse OKC. Should people get too complacent with the way things are going and continuing to justify the backwardness exhibited by the state by the default “other states do this too,” they ought to tread carefully.

In terms of percentage wise as well, Asheville, St. George, Fargo, among various other smaller metros are showing impressive growth.

It’s important to look at trends though remembering such things are unpredictable. It’s a very complex issue, IMO, given that there are many cities today that people would have never guessed 100 years ago would be as big as they are just like the cities that have experienced a loss in population like Detroit. Remember at current trends California is expected to lose population. I’m not sure about NYC, but with 120k a year in the Bay Area being considered low income, there are many issues that are starting to really hit the breaking point in the larger metros. I have a hunch that we will see a revival of small town America.

I’m not sure if you haven’t kept up with Birmingham but they are really seeing some big investment with auto manufacturers and space industry. I was actually very impressed with the city which shocked me.

Memphis is generally viewed as the armpit of Tennessee with even Knoxville looking down on it. Nashville tends to get all of the favoritism from the state.

Raleigh is absolutely on fire though recent efforts to build light rail were shot down due to a university and some powers that be having turned back on a decision to build it. Other than that they are making huge progress.

I’m not sure you’ve ever been to SLC but that city is incredible and is years ahead of OKC. Just due to the amount of tourism it draws, it will be hard for OKC to ever really compete with them depending on how you want to define being in competition.

There are tons of metros like the Boise, Spokane-Coeur d’Alene, Omaha, Des Moines, Fayetteville, etc. which all could easily catch up and eclipse OKC. Should people get too complacent with the way things are going and continuing to justify the backwardness exhibited by the state by the default “other states do this too,” they ought to tread carefully.

In terms of percentage wise as well, Asheville, St. George, Fargo, among various other smaller metros are showing impressive growth.

It’s important to look at trends though remembering such things are unpredictable. It’s a very complex issue, IMO, given that there are many cities today that people would have never guessed 100 years ago would be as big as they are just like the cities that have experienced a loss in population like Detroit. Remember at current trends California is expected to lose population. I’m not sure about NYC, but with 120k a year in the Bay Area being considered low income, there are many issues that are starting to really hit the breaking point in the larger metros. I have a hunch that we will see a revival of small town America.

SLC is a great city & as you stated they are ahead of OKC in terms of development, growth, & transportation infrastructure. They got big development boost though when they hosted 2002 winter Olympics & never looked back, before that the city was not as attractive.

I disagree with your comments re Omaha, Boise, Des Moines, Fayatteville catching up & even more eclipsing OKC. They are years behind in development & growth is tepid. Omaha kind of reminds me of Tulsa in turns of development & growth. Omaha has a downtown area, but outside a of that, it needs help. Omaha is picking up steam, but still far behind OKC.

Now Louisville, that is a city that I would like to compare to OKC.

I’m not following Louisville other than they did a beautiful job with their recent freeway expansion but other than that I don’t know much of the city.

My point of those smaller metros is that their growth is rather impressive relative to their size no matter which you put it. Boise is already ranked as one of the fastest growing metros. Idaho is becoming an escape from California for many residents here. It is a beautiful city and I’d recommend checking it out. Do I think OKC is any real danger of being eclipsed by those cities? No. But that doesn’t mean we should count our blessings and be overly confident.

Plutonic is right about Boise. For its size, it’s growth the last couple of years has been very impressive. It’s domestic migration is very impressive.

However, G.Walker is on to something with Louisville. Both Louisville and Oklahoma City are nearly identical in terms of metro size and recent growth.

I’m not sure if you haven’t kept up with Birmingham but they are really seeing some big investment with auto manufacturers and space industry. I was actually very impressed with the city which shocked me.

Memphis is generally viewed as the armpit of Tennessee with even Knoxville looking down on it. Nashville tends to get all of the favoritism from the state.

Raleigh is absolutely on fire though recent efforts to build light rail were shot down due to a university and some powers that be having turned back on a decision to build it. Other than that they are making huge progress.

I’m not sure you’ve ever been to SLC but that city is incredible and is years ahead of OKC. Just due to the amount of tourism it draws, it will be hard for OKC to ever really compete with them depending on how you want to define being in competition.

There are tons of metros like the Boise, Spokane-Coeur d’Alene, Omaha, Des Moines, Fayetteville, etc. which all could easily catch up and eclipse OKC. Should people get too complacent with the way things are going and continuing to justify the backwardness exhibited by the state by the default “other states do this too,” they ought to tread carefully.

In terms of percentage wise as well, Asheville, St. George, Fargo, among various other smaller metros are showing impressive growth.

It’s important to look at trends though remembering such things are unpredictable. It’s a very complex issue, IMO, given that there are many cities today that people would have never guessed 100 years ago would be as big as they are just like the cities that have experienced a loss in population like Detroit. Remember at current trends California is expected to lose population. I’m not sure about NYC, but with 120k a year in the Bay Area being considered low income, there are many issues that are starting to really hit the breaking point in the larger metros. I have a hunch that we will see a revival of small town America.

I agree with all you stated. Now living in Raleigh/Durham, I can attest to is hyper growth. It WILL surpass OKC and likely Louisville, Memphis, and maybe catch Milwaukee by 2020. Raleigh has averaged 30K per year growth for 10 years.

Plutonic is right about Boise. For its size, it’s growth the last couple of years has been very impressive. It’s domestic migration is very impressive.

However, G.Walker is on to something with Louisville. Both Louisville and Oklahoma City are nearly identical in terms of metro size and recent growth.

Boise is impressive. Only been there once but it definitely has appeal.

Louisville is a nice city but the metro area isn’t growing as fast as OKC.

I agree with all you stated. Now living in Raleigh/Durham, I can attest to is hyper growth. It WILL surpass OKC and likely Louisville, Memphis, and maybe catch Milwaukee by 2020. Raleigh has averaged 30K per year growth for 10 years.

Raleigh is a supernova. Spent some time there last fall. Beautiful area. It has a feel to it that it’s the place to be. The vibe reminds me of Austin in the early 2000s in terms of civic pride. Booming for sure.

Among tier 3 cities like Louisville, Omaha, Memphis, Birmingham, Oklahoma city is fairing pretty well. We are not the fastest growing nor the slowest, we are in the middle of the pack. The last couple of years have been tepid, but recent census estimates suggest our growth rate will increase.

Our development is steady & not too fast & we added two prominent skyscrapers to our skyline in the last 7 years, a lot of tier 3 cities can only dream of that.

I’m not so sure I’d classify Omaha as being a peer city of OKC. Furthermore Memphis though having some notable investments occurring in and around the city is NOT doing good overall par I checked.

Josh was right about Louisville— that city isn’t doing so hot either. Huntsville and Birmingham are seeing some decent growth. I’m not sure how exact numbers compare to OKC.

Needless to say, count me as part of the camp that isn’t impressed by the recent numbers of OKC’s growth. It’s certainly nice to have, but OKC should be doing better. I’d like to see minimum of 20k a year growth and 30k would be more exciting. I think 30k for a decade could be sustainable for the current infrastructure that exists with some modifications that don’t include major lane expansion for freeways.

I’m not so sure I’d classify Omaha as being a peer city of OKC. Furthermore Memphis though having some notable investments occurring in and around the city is NOT doing good overall par I checked.

Josh was right about Louisville— that city isn’t doing so hot either. Huntsville and Birmingham are seeing some decent growth. I’m not sure how exact numbers compare to OKC.

Needless to say, count me as part of the camp that isn’t impressed by the recent numbers of OKC’s growth. It’s certainly nice to have, but OKC should be doing better. I’d like to see minimum of 20k a year growth and 30k would be more exciting. I think 30k for a decade could be sustainable for the current infrastructure that exists with some modifications that don’t include major lane expansion for freeways.

One would think metro wide we would have more growth. It seems like Edmond alone, or Norman alone would be growing that quickly. Settling in to 25K a year growth seems doable in 2020-2030 if some positives fall into place like more jobs, better schools, better state government, more positive marketing for the city. Would take us to around 1.7 million by 2030!

Tulsa metro has still seen 5.7% growth since 2010, it has slowed in the past couple years with the pullback in the energy industry which has also slowed growth in the OKC metro and across the state (especially the NW counties).

Outside of the OKC and Tulsa metro area counties, Payne County due to OSU and Bryan County due to DFW spillover you won't see much growth or more likely continued population decreases in every other Oklahoma county.

But OSU is far from a source of strong population growth for Stillwater. OSU enrollment isn't growing.

2014 Total enrolled at OSU-Stillwater: 23,088
2218 Total enrolled at OSU=Stillwaer: 22,967

Stillwater micropolitan population increase for 2018: 173.
Toro, which recenly bought out Charles Machine Works(Ditch Witch) in Perry, if it expands production and employment at the Perry plant may be a better source for population growth.

But OSU is far from a source of strong population growth for Stillwater. OSU enrollment isn't growing.

2014 Total enrolled at OSU-Stillwater: 23,088
2218 Total enrolled at OSU=Stillwaer: 22,967

Stillwater micropolitan population increase for 2018: 173.
Toro, which recenly bought out Charles Machine Works(Ditch Witch) in Perry, if it expands production and employment at the Perry plant may be a better source for population growth.

Unlike most of the rural and non-Metro area counties Payne County should see marginal growth related to having a large state university. It will be interesting to see how college towns fare in the future with universities seeing drops in enrollment due to changing demographics.

You're right that Texas' state government has much of the same reactionary type legislation that Oklahoma does (especially more recently) but there are a few areas where Texas is significantly better and it's not even arguable, most notably education and infrastructure. That stuff matters when it comes to stimulating economic growth and attracting corporate relocations. With that said, I don't think politics alone can explain all of Oklahoma's problems. I think it's a factor, but it's really a much more complex problem. I think the biggest factor is the simple fact that Oklahoma doesn't really have any metro areas comparable Dallas or Houston or even Austin/San Antonio. Nationally, smaller metro areas aren't quite booming the way larger metro areas are.



Good point here. Two-thirds of the population of the state of Oklahoma lives in the metro areas yet it seems like the state government still heavily favors rural interests. This is an issue in Texas as well to some extent, but their metro areas are so much larger than OK that it's hard to really compare.

Bills are pending in the TX legislature to significantly increase school funding so that is something they recognize and are addressing. Their higher level education is light years ahead of OKs.
As for your infrastructure comment, l dont see any evidence of this. They have spent tens of billions on roads and they are in the middle of a huge increase in wind generation. No other state is close to them in terms of renewable-source energy generation.
As for business growth, it's several things. Location atop an ocean of oil and gas and next to the gulf. DFW and Houston (and now Austin ) having international airports. 0 state income tax. Excellent colleges and universities. Vast land, mineral and agricultural resources. Vast imports and exports with Mexico. Finally, Texans have a deep and overriding pride in their state and their heritage. It's not often you will hear them sit around and gripe about their state. It has its problems and they may not like individuals but they love their state. They have vast venture capital and real estate investment capital available in Texas. This rubs off on business and their ability to attract from out of state.

Bills are pending in the TX legislature to significantly increase school funding so that is something they recognize and are addressing. Their higher level education is light years ahead of OKs.
As for your infrastructure comment, l dont see any evidence of this. They have spent tens of billions on roads and they are in the middle of a huge increase in wind generation. No other state is close to them in terms of renewable-source energy generation.
As for business growth, it's several things. Location atop an ocean of oil and gas and next to the gulf. DFW and Houston (and now Austin ) having international airports. 0 state income tax. Excellent colleges and universities. Vast land, mineral and agricultural resources. Vast imports and exports with Mexico. Finally, Texans have a deep and overriding pride in their state and their heritage. It's not often you will hear them sit around and gripe about their state. It has its problems and they may not like individuals but they love their state. They have vast venture capital and real estate investment capital available in Texas. This rubs off on business and their ability to attract from out of state.
You are spot on with everything you have said, and, the people of Texas and the state of Texas have a "there isn't anything that can't be done" attitude. Add that all up and it is a winning combination.

You are spot on with everything you have said, and, the people of Texas and the state of Texas have a "there isn't anything that can't be done" attitude. Add that all up and it is a winning combination.

Well that settles it why live anywhere else when Texas is THE GREATEST PLACE ON EARTH. Geez what a defeatist attitude. I am from Texas and personally hate the arrogant attitude that many Texans have and would never want to live there again.

Well that settles it why live anywhere else when Texas is THE GREATEST PLACE ON EARTH. Geez what a defeatist attitude. I am from Texas and personally hate the arrogant attitude that many Texans have and would never want to live there again.
Didn't say anything about living there, and I sure wouldn't live there, but, it's hard to argue with what is going on down there.

Well that settles it why live anywhere else when Texas is THE GREATEST PLACE ON EARTH. Geez what a defeatist attitude. I am from Texas and personally hate the arrogant attitude that many Texans have and would never want to live there again.

We're simply discussing the differences between TX and OK. l lived in TX for 15 years and there is a definite pride in being from TX which l find less prevelent in OK. Threads on here arevgood examples. l have, more than once, asked certain individuals why they stay they are so negative. Life is too short. Go where you can be happy.

We're simply discussing the differences between TX and OK. l lived in TX for 15 years and there is a definite pride in being from TX which l find less prevelent in OK. Threads on here arevgood examples. l have, more than once, asked certain individuals why they stay they are so negative. Life is too short. Go where you can be happy.

I've decided I'm likely leaving OKC by next summer. That is, unless I get a promotion which could happen and in that case, I'll stay one more year. After that I'm out no matter what. In my case, I really need to be in a larger (2+ million MSA) city. That's one thing Texas has several of and OK has none of.

The economy is good right now so it's really not a bad time to move.

I've decided I'm likely leaving OKC by next summer. That is, unless I get a promotion which could happen and in that case, I'll stay one more year. After that I'm out no matter what. In my case, I really need to be in a larger (2+ million MSA) city. That's one thing Texas has several of and OK has none of.

The economy is good right now so it's really not a bad time to move.

If you consider San Antonio and have qquestions, I’m here to answer and help you out.

I've decided I'm likely leaving OKC by next summer. That is, unless I get a promotion which could happen and in that case, I'll stay one more year. After that I'm out no matter what. In my case, I really need to be in a larger (2+ million MSA) city. That's one thing Texas has several of and OK has none of.

The economy is good right now so it's really not a bad time to move.

Why do you need to be in a metro area of 2 million plus? Work related? I've sort of given though to moving to the DFW Metro area. It's the only metro area I could move to in Texas because of a hobby I have. However, I can't justify it because of the insane traffic issues and the cost of housing down there compared to Oklahoma City.

I've been giving some thought to leaving as well, but DFW's traffic is a nightmare and the transit doesn't make up for it enough yet.

Before people leave, I think they need to put things into perspective. If things are going good for you, is it necessary to leave?