^

It is true that at least now in OKC and Tulsa (and perhaps Norman, too) you can live in a pretty urban and progressive area and just not deal with the huge majority of things people are complaining about. I remember asking people about this before I moved back and it's completely proven to be the case.

And, you can do it for a fraction of the cost of almost everywhere else.

I've been back in OKC over 6 months now and I am constantly out doing things, and I still miss all kinds of fun and interesting stuff I just can't squeeze in.

Honestly, the quality of living is very, very high here. I am constantly saying, "Things are just so easy here." You only appreciate that if you live somewhere else with traffic, crazy density and expensive prices on just about everything.


And just now things are starting to get expensive downtown which is the best possible sign we've turned a big corner and we are just going to see more infill and great things in the core. It's no different than living in Dallas and Houston and just ignoring the politics of most the people living elsewhere.

Glad to hear you got out of there before the big earthquake, catch22!!!

Wow. For once (or twice), good for her.

I've said over and over Fallins problem isn't policy despite what every left winger in this state loves to spew. (Also kinda funny that they don't know who the real enemy is) Fallin actually supports a handful of things the left likes, she wants to reduce the prison pop and she has been very consistent in wanting to increase education funding to name a few. Her problem is she is ineffective. The legislature doesn't really have a fear of Mary Fallin, like they would a Boren. It doesn't matter what you think if no one cares what you think.

For the most part her leadership is the problem, not her policy.

^

It is true that at least now in OKC and Tulsa (and perhaps Norman, too) you can live in a pretty urban and progressive area and just not deal with the huge majority of things people are complaining about. I remember asking people about this before I moved back and it's completely proven to be the case.

And, you can do it for a fraction of the cost of almost everywhere else.

I've been back in OKC over 6 months now and I am constantly out doing things, and I still miss all kinds of fun and interesting stuff I just can't squeeze in.

Honestly, the quality of living is very, very high here. I am constantly saying, "Things are just so easy here." You only appreciate that if you live somewhere else with traffic, crazy density and expensive prices on just about everything.


And just now things are starting to get expensive downtown which is the best possible sign we've turned a big corner and we are just going to see more infill and great things in the core. It's no different than living in Dallas and Houston and just ignoring the politics of most the people living elsewhere.

Pete, how long do you think it is before OKC starts experiencing the problems of big cities because I think it is closer than some think. Certainly not the kinds of problems that plague NYC, LA, Houston, or Miami, but problems OKC hasn't seen before...

To expand on this, consider the following regarding Texas politics, specifically how it relates to social issues:

-Lt Gov Dan Patrick has already indicated that he will push for a NC-style "bathroom bill" and is willing to risk his reelection on it. In TX, the Lt Governor has the power to shape legislation far more than the actual Governor.

-Houston became one of the few large cities last year to vote down an anti-discrimination ordinance.

-In Dallas, there have been 15 beatings of gay men since this fall, largely in Oak Lawn. It took a large media outcry for the police and mayor to really even make an effort to investigate these crimes. They are still unsolved.

-Ted Cruz...enough said.

Many more that I cannot remember. Now that I think about it, Texas can be an incredibly hostile place for certain groups, possibly moreso than Oklahoma. I think Okies are just far more self-aware than Texans. We are a small state and a bit of a blank slate to most of the nation. I think most educated people here are very sensitive to our image and how we present ourselves to the world. It can branch out into self-loathing but ultimately I do think it is a good thing.

I think the fact that Texas is such a behemoth compared to Oklahoma has a lot to do with it. I also think the fact that Texas is home to Austin, media darling and perceived liberal paradise, lets Texas off the hook somewhat when it comes to these things tarnishing their image. There is Texas, and then there is Austin.

It doesn't matter. Just move to Deer Creek and all of your issues are taken care of, apparently.

C'mon now AP, don't stoop to this level.

As someone who really loves living and enjoying OKC (from DC school district, for reference), I won't lie that the wife and I have discussed finding somewhere else that could possibly better serve our gifted 5 year old.

Absolutely correct. The grass is always greener on the other side. It took me 2 months in Portland to realize it was a terrible place to live. The tax rate is soul crushing. The homeless problem and high crime in Portland wa startling, the traffic was terrible (2-3 hours in the car each day). Taking the light rail to work was a crapshoot on whether or not you would be late to work because of a homicide at a MAX station, or an unlicensed driver crossing the tracks and hitting a train and shutting the system down for several hours. The people are incredibly rude too.

Denver is as close to home as I could get, and I started work in Denver a few weeks ago. I'm biweekly commuting from Portland to Denver right now, and moving my things when my lease expires in Portland at the end of next month. And I can honestly say, I will never voluntarily step foot in Portland again after June 30. I cannot wait to end my association with that city.

My point of that soapbox rant is: Oklahoma has so much going for it that Oklahomans take for granted, including myself before I moved. You get all of the east/west coast amenities if you live downtown, at a fraction of the price.

As embarassing as our lawmakers are, you can still live in a comfortable bubble of your own choosing in OKC. If you want space there's plenty to go around, if you want the urban scene. Downtown OKC is the best you'll get in the country at the price point.

Personally, after living in the super dense land of Portland. I would be fine living in the suburbs and having my own yard and private space. I can't talk on the phone because my neighbor can hear the whole thing, and vice versa. Just feels like there's always someone listening or watching.

There's just too many good things to say about Oklahoma City now that I have the outside perspective, the rest of it is just static. The positives outweigh the negatives and I would come back in a heart beat.

Sorry to drag on and if it seems to jump around, I am having a difficult time getting my phone to scroll through the text box (not a site issue, my screen is bugging out)

First off, congrats (?) man on maybe a better job (consider DEN is a UA hub).

Second, this post should be liked and stuck to the top of each forum. Be careful what you all wish for. I'm not by any means saying this place is perfect, but no place is without it's faults. I met a family from Denver (via Vancouver....the darling of several folks here) who sang the praises of Canadian healthcare (which I envy) but loved Denver 100000x better. So if everyone wants Canada, have at it, but know that even Canadians sometimes find greener pastures elsewhere.

C'mon now AP, don't stoop to this level.

As someone who really loves living and enjoying OKC (from DC school district, for reference), I won't lie that the wife and I have discussed finding somewhere else that could possibly better serve our gifted 5 year old.

I've also known a lot of teachers who moved to Texas, Arkansas, or Missouri for significant pay increases.

The LGBT stuff every legislative session is an embarrassment to the state and I am sure it does drive some people away, but if there is anything the legislature is doing that will have a much more profound impact in terms of causing people to seek out greener pastures, is the education system. It will also negatively affect Oklahoma's chance at corporate relocations being that education is something that they look at.

The good thing about this issue is its something everybody should be able to agree needs fixed. The LGBT issue and other social issues are largely divided on religious lines, but this is something that affects everyone. It's just a matter of getting a legislature that is willing to do something about it.

I've also known a lot of teachers who moved to Texas, Arkansas, or Missouri for significant pay increases.

The LGBT stuff every legislative session is an embarrassment to the state and I am sure it does drive some people away, but if there is anything the legislature is doing that will have a much more profound impact in terms of causing people to seek out greener pastures, is the education system. It will also negatively affect Oklahoma's chance at corporate relocations being that education is something that they look at.

The good thing about this issue is its something everybody should be able to agree needs fixed. The LGBT issue and other social issues are largely divided on religious lines, but this is something that affects everyone. It's just a matter of getting a legislature that is willing to do something about it.

When it comes to LGBT issues, be more thankful that the Chamber of Commerce people were able to overpower the church people, so that not one of the 27 or so anti-gay bills got passed. I guess not too many gays are being driven away. They seem to have a stronger and more open lobbying voice than usual.

And there needs to be more appreciation that Oklahoma has changed a lot for the better since 1999. So these days visitors are less likely to be amazed to hear about controversial issues discussed in the news that got settled in their states decades ago.

And there needs to be more appreciation that Oklahoma has changed a lot for the better since 1999. So these days visitors are less likely to be amazed to hear about controversial issues discussed in the news that got settled in their states decades ago.

Correct. In 1999, tattoos were still illegal here and there was no lottery.

Hopefully SJR68 will pass and will go to a vote, finally doing away with 3.2 beer and this state's archaic liquor laws. When it comes to blue laws that have actual impact on a lot of people that is probably near the top of the list.

I do think the state is still a couple of decades away from recreational marijuana legalization however. Hopefully there is incremental progress between now and then as surrounding states legalize it, starting with decriminalization of recreational marijuana and legalized medical marijuana.

I do think the state is still a couple of decades away from recreational marijuana legalization however. Hopefully there is incremental progress between now and then as surrounding states legalize it, starting with decriminalization of recreational marijuana and legalized medical marijuana.

While I'm certainly not against it, the lack of legalized marijuana is not holding Oklahoma back. The tax revenue would be nice, but I don't think legalizing it is that big of deal right now. On the other hand, I do think we should immediately decriminalize possession or at least reduce the punishments to exclude jail time as a possibility. It's pretty ridiculous that possession of even a small amount of marijuana could land you in prison. The reduction in prison population would probably help the budget crisis.

For instance...http://m.newsok.com/norman-city-councilman-ordered-to-trial-in-drug-paraphernalia-sales-case/article/5499939?rotator=true

Eliminating the EITC effects people in real life, the education system's budget deficit effects people in real life, raising the sales tax to pay for education disproportionately effects low income families, the transgender bill effects people in real life, making abortion a felony effect people in real life. To write off the state legislatures actions as not effecting anyone is nuts. Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on Oklahoman's QOL.

This, definitely. Also, when the legislature does all of their stupid sh*t, they take time away from what they should be doing (fixing the budget, etc.).

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before on this site, but what really are the driving reasons that DFW and TX are growing so much faster than OK? IMO, OK taxes are actually below TX if you consider all types of taxes, and it can't be the weather or politics as both are almost the same. I have to believe, some of the main differences are: 1) education opportunities are better in TX; 2) overall amenities are better in TX; 3) TXans have more confidence and pride in the state and it shows; and 4) TX's infrastructure is better.

OKC is catching up fast on the amenities. I see confidence and pride growing in the people. Again, IMO, education and improved infrastructures have to be addressed to lure outside companies to the state.

I'd like to apologize for some of my posts yesterday. I was a little heated at what I thought was an outright dismissal of very serious issues. I should have let myself cool down before engaging in discussion.

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before on this site, but what really are the driving reasons that DFW and TX are growing so much faster than OK? IMO, OK taxes are actually below TX if you consider all types of taxes, and it can't be the weather or politics as both are almost the same. I have to believe, some of the main differences are: 1) education opportunities are better in TX; 2) overall amenities are better in TX; 3) TXans have more confidence and pride in the state and it shows; and 4) TX's infrastructure is better.

OKC is catching up fast on the amenities. I see confidence and pride growing in the people. Again, IMO, education and improved infrastructures have to be addressed to lure outside companies to the state.

With DFW, I believe it comes down to the job market and the sheer weight the metro area pulls. It's an international hub with one of the largest airports in the country. The investment that Dallas has made in its urban core has made it very attractive for young professionals, providing you can afford it. The amenities available plus the low cost of living relative to coastal areas is a big draw for corporate relocations.

To be a boomtown, you either need to be a place that offers a quality of life and/or a culture that causes people from around the country to WANT to be there (think Austin, Portland, Nashville, Denver) OR have a strong job market as well as infrastructure and incentives to attract major corporate relocations (DFW, Charlotte, Indianapolis, etc).

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before on this site, but what really are the driving reasons that DFW and TX are growing so much faster than OK? IMO, OK taxes are actually below TX if you consider all types of taxes, and it can't be the weather or politics as both are almost the same. I have to believe, some of the main differences are: 1) education opportunities are better in TX; 2) overall amenities are better in TX; 3) TXans have more confidence and pride in the state and it shows; and 4) TX's infrastructure is better.

OKC is catching up fast on the amenities. I see confidence and pride growing in the people. Again, IMO, education and improved infrastructures have to be addressed to lure outside companies to the state.

I agree with all of those. I also think Texas has branded itself well. You either love what they're doing or hate it but enough people love it.

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before on this site, but what really are the driving reasons that DFW and TX are growing so much faster than OK? IMO, OK taxes are actually below TX if you consider all types of taxes, and it can't be the weather or politics as both are almost the same. I have to believe, some of the main differences are: 1) education opportunities are better in TX; 2) overall amenities are better in TX; 3) TXans have more confidence and pride in the state and it shows; and 4) TX's infrastructure is better.

OKC is catching up fast on the amenities. I see confidence and pride growing in the people. Again, IMO, education and improved infrastructures have to be addressed to lure outside companies to the state.

Its seen as a bigger city and "brand" with more opportunities with most people...really as simple as that. Whether that is actually reality varies, of course. From my view, DFW is not pulling in people from surrounding states like it use to, but it's probably as popular with the east/west coast set as ever. There's a ton of people moving from Chicago as well. You can cash out your equity in a coastal market and buy your dream home here. And no income tax *note: VERY high property taxes, fees, and tolls though* There has been some pretty big economic "gets" like Toyota moving to Plano. Of course this has driven the RE market here bonkers and DFW is now considered one of the most overheated in the nation, right behind the Bay Area. I prefer not to stay in this area long term but if I was trying to buy a home here I would be screwed. That being said, it still cheaper than other big cities and as long as that continues it will continue to mushroom.

Education in Texas is not great at all, but a lot of the suburban school systems in DFW are quite good. I must admit if you are willing to put up with some of the negatives, they are very good places to raise a family.

I should note that OKC has a greater percentage of its growth coming from net in-migration (people moving here from other parts of the country), whereas DFW has a comparatively lower percentage, but much higher immigration rate and higher birthrate. And as recently as 2013 (the last year data was available) there was a small net positive flow of people from TX to OK.

Absolutely correct. The grass is always greener on the other side. It took me 2 months in Portland to realize it was a terrible place to live. The tax rate is soul crushing. The homeless problem and high crime in Portland wa startling, the traffic was terrible (2-3 hours in the car each day). Taking the light rail to work was a crapshoot on whether or not you would be late to work because of a homicide at a MAX station, or an unlicensed driver crossing the tracks and hitting a train and shutting the system down for several hours. The people are incredibly rude too....

My point of that soapbox rant is: Oklahoma has so much going for it that Oklahomans take for granted, including myself before I moved. You get all of the east/west coast amenities if you live downtown, at a fraction of the price...

There's just too many good things to say about Oklahoma City now that I have the outside perspective, the rest of it is just static. The positives outweigh the negatives and I would come back in a heart beat.


LOL are you in my head? Yeah not feeling Dallas either, although I gave it at least 90 days. Been here 2 years and as much as I have tried I can't say I have warmed up to it. I have carved out a niche but I am so out of my comfort zone its not funny. The natives are nice, but I am no fan of the cutthroat corporate A-hole transplants. This place is way too expensive for what it offers and I find the materialistic, elitist vibe here very off putting. And as much as I hate OK politics this place is just as bad. DFW is booming, but Dallas itself is a surprisingly poorly run city...bad roads, awful traffic, surging crime, roving packs of dogs attacking people (seriously, look it up!)

BUT...I do not regret the move though. It has been a positive for my career. Unfortunately my last employer in OKC has had a lot of cutbacks...the oil business is not for the weak. I have had to absorb and deal with a lot of personal BS along the way these past 2 years. But its made me stronger. You gotta do what you gotta do in life sometimes, especially when you are young. I hope you at least got that out of living in Portland.

With that in mind, I have grown tired of living my life in suspended animation, and I am trying my damnedest to move back, hopefully in the next year. Its a goal to purchase a home but try to live in an urban environment. Where I am that is impossible to do unless you are rich...seriously, nearly 600K for this (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Dallas-TX/26694830_zpid/38128_rid/500000-_price/1792-_mp/any_days/globalrelevanceex_sort/32.8417,-96.733975,32.785507,-96.788907_rect/13_zm/)? Lolnope. I have always contended that OKC is one of those places you have to leave for a while in order to really appreciate. And a lot of people in my circle who have relocated over the years would agree with this as well.

With that in mind, I have grown tired of living my life in suspended animation, and I am trying my damnedest to move back, hopefully in the next year. Its a goal to purchase a home but try to live in an urban environment. Where I am that is impossible to do unless you are rich...seriously, nearly 600K for this (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Dallas-TX/26694830_zpid/38128_rid/500000-_price/1792-_mp/any_days/globalrelevanceex_sort/32.8417,-96.733975,32.785507,-96.788907_rect/13_zm/)? Lolnope. I have always contended that OKC is one of those places you have to leave for a while in order to really appreciate. And a lot of people in my circle who have relocated over the years would agree with this as well.

Those are the kinds of things that make me really giddy knowing that in 20 to 30 years whatever the equivalent of that number is is what most properties East of Penn and South of Expressway will be worth.

You could easily find a comparable to that for <$200k in OKC.

I would like OK and OKC to take a bold move and build a bullet train from OKC to DFW. We could take full advantage of the DFW airport and be ready to link to the train system when built in TX. The future of transportation seems to be that airlines will serve long hauls with ever larger and better aircraft and near hauls will be accomplished by rail. If you open OKC up to easy and quick access to DFW, you create both a major benefit for business and an added amenity for those living in both cities for getaways. It could be a game changer investment.

I would like OK and OKC to take a bold move and build a bullet train from OKC to DFW. We could take full advantage of the DFW airport and be ready to link to the train system when built in TX. The future of transportation seems to be that airlines will serve long hauls with ever larger and better aircraft and near hauls will be accomplished by rail. If you open OKC up to easy and quick access to DFW, you create both a major benefit for business and an added amenity for those living in both cities for getaways. It could be a game changer investment.

Good way to get some airline lobbying fees too.

LOL are you in my head? Yeah not feeling Dallas either, although I gave it at least 90 days. Been here 2 years and as much as I have tried I can't say I have warmed up to it. I have carved out a niche but I am so out of my comfort zone its not funny. The natives are nice, but I am no fan of the cutthroat corporate A-hole transplants. This place is way too expensive for what it offers and I find the materialistic, elitist vibe here very off putting. And as much as I hate OK politics this place is just as bad. DFW is booming, but Dallas itself is a surprisingly poorly run city...bad roads, awful traffic, surging crime, roving packs of dogs attacking people (seriously, look it up!)

BUT...I do not regret the move though. It has been a positive for my career. Unfortunately my last employer in OKC has had a lot of cutbacks...the oil business is not for the weak. I have had to absorb and deal with a lot of personal BS along the way these past 2 years. But its made me stronger. You gotta do what you gotta do in life sometimes, especially when you are young. I hope you at least got that out of living in Portland.

With that in mind, I have grown tired of living my life in suspended animation, and I am trying my damnedest to move back, hopefully in the next year. Its a goal to purchase a home but try to live in an urban environment. Where I am that is impossible to do unless you are rich...seriously, nearly 600K for this (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Dallas-TX/26694830_zpid/38128_rid/500000-_price/1792-_mp/any_days/globalrelevanceex_sort/32.8417,-96.733975,32.785507,-96.788907_rect/13_zm/)? Lolnope. I have always contended that OKC is one of those places you have to leave for a while in order to really appreciate. And a lot of people in my circle who have relocated over the years would agree with this as well.

Haha, Portland has made me content with finding some cheap desert land miles from civilization, and building myself a place. I'm kidding, kind of. LOL. One great takeaway from Portland was adopting a rescue dog. Dealing with the Oregon Humane Society was a wonderful experience and they do wonderful work. I take back my prior statement, I would come back to Portland for the sole reason of adopting from them again. Maybe in a couple of years.

With that in mind, I have grown tired of living my life in suspended animation, and I am trying my damnedest to move back, hopefully in the next year. Its a goal to purchase a home but try to live in an urban environment. Where I am that is impossible to do unless you are rich...seriously, nearly 600K for this (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Dallas-TX/26694830_zpid/38128_rid/500000-_price/1792-_mp/any_days/globalrelevanceex_sort/32.8417,-96.733975,32.785507,-96.788907_rect/13_zm/)? Lolnope. I have always contended that OKC is one of those places you have to leave for a while in order to really appreciate. And a lot of people in my circle who have relocated over the years would agree with this as well.

Holy hell, M-Street houses for $600K?! Insane! Imagine what Highland Park or Swiss Avenue would be! You can get a VERY nice home in Mesta Park for that!

I lived in Dallas from 1988-1993, back when it was still "reasonable" in terms of traffic and housing prices. Swore I'd never come back to Oklahoma. Grass is greener syndrome like several of you have posted about. Now, I'm living the dream here in OKC and so very happy circumstances brought me back! There's no way I'd trade what we have here for what we'd have to have there. Stupid idiotic politics aside, I'm thrilled to be here, and excited to have been at ground level as OKC has done a (near) 180 in past the 20 or so years.

Holy hell, M-Street houses for $600K?! Insane! Imagine what Highland Park or Swiss Avenue would be! You can get a VERY nice home in Mesta Park for that!

I lived in Dallas from 1988-1993, back when it was still "reasonable" in terms of traffic and housing prices. Swore I'd never come back to Oklahoma. Grass is greener syndrome like several of you have posted about. Now, I'm living the dream here in OKC and so very happy circumstances brought me back! There's no way I'd trade what we have here for what we'd have to have there. Stupid idiotic politics aside, I'm thrilled to be here, and excited to have been at ground level as OKC has done a (near) 180 in past the 20 or so years.

Love hearing things like this, especially with so much pessimism going around (an annual event this time of year). I absolutely love living in OKC. If you're here and you're paying attention to all the really cool things happening around you, you realize you're part of something pretty awesome.

One of my biggest pet peeves is people bitching and moaning about the terrible stuff the legislature does, but almost never highlighting all the great stuff going on. It's like they love to be defeatist and angry all the time--and it affects our image to outsiders, many considering moving here or starting a business here. I make a strong effort to constantly promote OKC wherever I go. It warms the heart to see others on this board doing the same.

^

The local media is to blame for the constantly bellyaching about the legislative sessions.

It's an easy thing to do: Sensationalize something in the press, then social media spreads the story like wildfire, with everyone chipping in their indignation.

It's the local version of "those idiots in Washington". It's ridiculously simplistic and is just bad reporting that everyone seems to embrace.

^

The local media is to blame for the constantly bellyaching about the legislative sessions.


You can't say it hasn't done some good though as well. If it wasn't for the bellyaching, this legislature would get a lot more stuff pushed through that citizen action has been able to put a stop to, like the 27 proposed anti-LGBT bills this last session.

I'm just tired of the constant meltdowns about the legislature. They are who they are, and Fallin seems to be finally be ready to battle with them.

But despite all of their lunacy, VisitOkc was trending last night. Thunder's impact can't be overstated. People are simplistic, the Thunder are a 3 hour look how awesome OKC is commercial right now.

I'm just tired of the constant meltdowns about the legislature. They are who they are, and Fallin seems to be finally be ready to battle with them.

But despite all of their lunacy, VisitOkc was trending last night. Thunder's impact can't be overstated. People are simplistic, the Thunder are a 3 hour look how awesome OKC is commercial right now.

VisitOKC was having some great banter with VisitOakland on twitter last night. I recommend reading it.

^

The local media is to blame for the constantly bellyaching about the legislative sessions.

It's an easy thing to do: Sensationalize something in the press, then social media spreads the story like wildfire, with everyone chipping in their indignation.

It's the local version of "those idiots in Washington". It's ridiculously simplistic and is just bad reporting that everyone seems to embrace.


Don't want the media to cover terrible legislation? Stop proposing it:


Under a budget proposal making its way through the Legislature, funding for the Legislative Service Bureau, which does legislative research and provides computer services for lawmakers and their staffs, would get a $9 million increase, bringing its annual appropriation to $13,892,835.

http://www.oklahoman.com/most-oklahoma-agencies-see-cuts-but-theres-a-big-exception/article/5500293

^+++++++++++++++++1

Don't want the media to cover terrible legislation? Stop proposing it:

This.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending like there is no issue does nobody any good. Of course, I can understand people being tired of others getting irate about the politics here, but the biggest driver of change and progress is discontentment with the status quo.

Don't want the media to cover terrible legislation? Stop proposing it:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-senate-leader-brian-bingman-blames-media-for-focus-on/article_dd7a0af2-68c1-5edd-a995-bedf3371c271.html?utm_content=buffer7f53d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#user-comment-area

State Senate leader Brian Bingman blames media for focus on social issues

Bingman is one of two authors of legislation introduced this week responding to federal guidelines relating to transgender people’s access to bathrooms.


The bathroom bill is co-authored by House Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, and would allow students to cite their religious beliefs in order to be exempted from using restrooms where transgender people are allowed.


A resolution also was filed Thursday calling for the impeachment of President Barack Obama.


At this late point in the session, new legislation can be filed only by leadership members such as Bingman or Hickman.

Apparently it is not the legislation that makes Oklahoma "look bad", it is the reporting on it.

This.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending like there is no issue does nobody any good. Of course, I can understand people being tired of others getting irate about the politics here, but the biggest driver of change and progress is discontentment with the status quo.

Constant discontentment with the status quo breeds burnout. Crying wolf one too many times.

Constant discontentment with the status quo breeds burnout. Crying wolf one too many times.

As Pete says, a person can be discontent with the politics here and even push back against it while still being a civic promoter, focused on all of the positives of living in Oklahoma and OKC. I don't think just ignoring the problem and pretending it doesn't exist is the right choice.

With the number of lawsuits that the ACLU has won on constitutional grounds, it appears there have been more wolves sighted in recent years than in the past.

As Pete says, a person can be discontent with the politics here and even push back against it while still being a civic promoter, focused on all of the positives of living in Oklahoma and OKC. I don't think just ignoring the problem and pretending it doesn't exist is the right choice.
I didn't say ignoring. I said you can burn people out with it.

I didn't say ignoring. I said you can burn people out with it.
So what do you do then? Just stop talking about it and ignore it?

Everyone here loves to attack bchris for literally no reason at all. Why doesn't everyone here tell him what he should do even though everything he says is perfectly in line with how the city is and various problems that I hear from multiple people and not this 'feel good' chat that the posters of OKCTalk love to have from time to time.

So perhaps one could enlighten another as to how to approach the situation without burning people out yet still raising awareness without having to dedicate your life to civic pride. I think there is middle ground. You can volunteer, spread the word, talk some sh!t, all in good favor. Out of all of the sh!t I talk on OKC, you can damn be sure I will back the city up if some outsider starts talking sh!t about OKC with no valid points. But many of the points Bchris and many others raise are perfectly acceptable and help keep a balance by reminding people we still have a ways to go and I think that benefits the city by not losing sight of things.

Here's my advice: make sure criticism is informed, constructive, balanced by positive comments, and get rid of the hyperbole/exaggeration (e.g., Every other city can get this right, but OKC!). The posters who take heat on this site usually fail to meet one of those criteria regularly. Of course constructive criticism and action -- on politics and urban projects -- are needed. But it needs to be done in a way that is effective.

Don't know if this has been posted yet but here are the July 2015 population estimates that come out in mid 2016:

1,321,040

In 2010 the official number was 1,252,987, so that's a growth rate of about 5.4%.

Interestingly, the jump from 2014 to 2015 was the largest in quite a while in 1.77%; which would be 17.7% if extrapolated for the decade. OKC has been running more in the 10-15% growth rate but of course, 2016 isn't likely to be as strong a growth year due to the oil & gas glut.

Tulsa continues to show pretty anemic growth, at just 2.72% from 2010 to 2015. Their current MSA estimate is 962.944.

Here at the top 100 MSA's sorted by growth percentage from 2010-2015:

1 Austin-Round Rock, TX 9.80%
2 Dallas-Plano-Irving, TX 8.93%
3 Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA 7.45%
4 Raleigh, NC 7.45%
5 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 7.42%
6 Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 7.03%
7 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX 6.96%
8 Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach-Deerfield Beach, FL 6.95%
9 Miami-Miami Beach-Kendall, FL 6.84%
10 San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX 6.58%
11 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL 6.46%
12 Oakland-Hayward-Berkeley, CA 6.45%
13 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX 6.16%
14 Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO 6.16%
15 West Palm Beach-Boca Raton-Delray Beach, FL 5.94%
16 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV 5.82%
17 McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX 5.73%
18 San Francisco-Redwood City-South San Francisco, CA 5.72%
19 Silver Spring-Frederick-Rockville, MD 5.71%
20 Oklahoma City, OK 5.43%
21 Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC 5.38%
22 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL 5.33%
23 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Franklin, TN 5.28%
24 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA 5.03%
25 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA 5.00%
26 Salt Lake City, UT 4.97%
27 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 4.96%
28 Tacoma-Lakewood, WA 4.52%
29 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA 4.48%
30 Anaheim-Santa Ana-Irvine, CA 4.47%
31 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA 4.47%
32 New Orleans-Metairie, LA 4.34%
33 Boston, MA 4.33%
34 Cambridge-Newton-Framingham, MA 4.31%
35 North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, FL 4.28%
36 San Diego-Carlsbad, CA 4.15%
37 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA 3.97%
38 Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV 3.95%
39 El Paso, TX 3.94%
40 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA 3.85%
41 Jacksonville, FL 3.77%
42 Columbus, OH 3.60%
43 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA 3.54%
44 Urban Honolulu, HI 3.52%
45 Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson, IN 3.46%
46 New York-Jersey City-White Plains, NY-NJ 3.35%
47 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI 3.34%
48 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 3.24%
49 Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH 3.21%
50 Sacramento--Roseville--Arden-Arcade, CA 3.19%
51 Richmond, VA 3.18%
52 Greenville-Anderson-Mauldin, SC 3.16%
53 Columbia, SC 3.16%
54 Bakersfield, CA 3.12%
55 Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI 2.97%
56 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Glendale, CA 2.96%
57 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT 2.72%
58 Tulsa, OK 2.72%
59 Fresno, CA 2.66%
60 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 2.62%
61 Greensboro-High Point, NC 2.43%
62 Warren-Troy-Farmington Hills, MI 2.42%
63 Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD 2.33%
64 Kansas City, MO-KS 2.28%
65 Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN 2.22%
66 Baton Rouge, LA 2.20%
67 New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA 2.18%
68 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA 2.14%
69 Philadelphia, PA 1.91%
70 Albuquerque, NM 1.85%
71 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1.78%
72 Tucson, AZ 1.75%
73 Knoxville, TN 1.68%
74 Montgomery County-Bucks County-Chester County, PA 1.67%
75 Newark, NJ-PA 1.50%
76 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1.26%
77 Worcester, MA-CT 1.22%
78 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD 1.19%
79 Chicago-Naperville-Arlington Heights, IL 1.16%
80 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 1.10%
81 Nassau County-Suffolk County, NY 0.99%
82 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI 0.98%
83 Birmingham-Hoover, AL 0.97%
84 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY 0.90%
85 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI 0.89%
86 Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton, PA-NJ 0.68%
87 St. Louis, MO-IL 0.47%
88 Rochester, NY 0.43%
89 Dayton, OH 0.30%
90 Lake County-Kenosha County, IL-WI 0.29%
91 Providence-Warwick, RI-MA 0.26%
92 Pittsburgh, PA 0.22%
93 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT 0.21%
94 Camden, NJ 0.15%
95 Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Niagara Falls, NY 0.04%
96 Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI 0.02%
97 New Haven-Milford, CT 0.00%
98 Cleveland-Elyria, OH -0.60%
99 Detroit-Dearborn-Livonia, MI -3.00%

Impressive, so that growth rate is approximately a gain of 37 people per day. Is there any breakdown to how many of those are new residents compared to births?

Don't know if this has been posted yet but here are the July 2015 population estimates that come out in mid 2016:

1,321,040

In 2010 the official number was 1,252,987, so that's a growth rate of about 5.4%.

Interestingly, the jump from 2014 to 2015 was the largest in quite a while in 1.77%; which would be 17.7% if extrapolated for the decade. OKC has been running more in the 10-15% growth rate but of course, 2016 isn't likely to be as strong a growth year due to the oil & gas glut.

Tulsa continues to show pretty anemic growth, at just 2.72% from 2010 to 2015. Their current MSA estimate is 962.944.

Pete, those numbers don't match the numbers released by the census as posted here (https://www.recenter.tamu.edu/data/population/#!/msa/Oklahoma_City%2C_OK).

The OKC metro population for 2015 was 1,358,452 and the growth rate from 14-15 was 1.55 percent.

The numbers from the census posted on that site have OKC with a 8.4% growth rate between 2010 and 2015. Just for reference, San Antonio, which is number 10 on the list you posted with a 6.5% growth rate, actually has a 11.2% growth rate.

I downloaded that data directly from the census bureau.

http://www.census.gov/population/metro/

which seems to differ from this data which is what that Texas A&M site is using:

http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

Isn't the OKC MSA an area of 6 or 7 different counties including Cleveland County? That number would be more useful and telling if the data was limited to either Oklahoma County or OKC proper. One can't take anything away from that data.

I downloaded that data directly from the census bureau.

http://www.census.gov/population/metro/


I clicked this (http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk) census pdf and it shows SA having the same population numbers as the Texas A&M site.

Okay, using the other numbers here is the same info, measuring growth from the 2010 to the July 1, 2015 estimate:

1 Austin-Round Rock 16.58%
2 Cape Coral-Fort Myers 13.45%
3 Raleigh 12.66%
4 Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land 12.44%
5 Charleston-North Charleston 12.03%
6 Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford 11.84%
7 San Antonio-New Braunfels 11.27%
8 Provo-Orem 11.20%
9 Denver-Aurora-Lakewood 10.65%
10 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington 10.53%
11 Boise City 9.79%
12 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Franklin 9.54%
13 North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton 9.49%
14 Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia 9.44%
15 Des Moines-West Des Moines 9.35%
16 Seattle-Bellevue-Everett 9.27%
17 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale 9.10%
18 McAllen-Edinburg-Mission 8.72%
19 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria 8.60%
20 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue 8.54%
21 Oklahoma City 8.42%
22 Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise 8.38%
23 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria 8.19%
24 Colorado Springs 8.09%
25 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach 8.05%
26 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell 8.02%
27 Lakeland-Winter Haven 7.97%
28 Jacksonville 7.72%
29 Ogden-Clearfield 7.65%
30 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara 7.62%
31 Salt Lake City 7.57%
32 San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward 7.40%
33 Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro 7.33%
34 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater 6.90%
35 Silver Spring-Frederick-Rockville 6.66%
36 San Diego-Carlsbad 6.60%
37 Columbus 6.29%
38 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario 6.26%
39 Greenville-Anderson-Mauldin 6.16%
40 New Orleans-Metairie 6.14%
41 Tacoma-Lakewood 6.13%
42 Stockton-Lodi 5.95%
43 Madison 5.94%
44 Sacramento--Roseville--Arden-Arcade 5.82%
45 Omaha-Council Bluffs 5.77%
46 Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach 5.59%
47 Columbia 5.53%
48 Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson 5.35%
49 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington 5.25%
50 Richmond 5.23%
51 Bakersfield 5.07%
52 Grand Rapids-Wyoming 5.02%
53 Boston-Cambridge-Newton 4.87%
54 Urban Honolulu 4.77%
55 Fresno 4.77%
56 Tulsa 4.64%
57 Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway 4.55%
58 Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville 4.55%
59 Augusta-Richmond County 4.47%
60 El Paso 4.33%
61 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim 3.99%
62 Greensboro-High Point 3.92%
63 Kansas City 3.89%
64 Baton Rouge 3.49%
65 Louisville/Jefferson County 3.46%
66 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk 3.41%
67 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura 3.31%
68 Baltimore-Columbia-Towson 3.21%
69 New York-Newark-Jersey City 3.14%
70 Tucson 3.04%
71 Winston-Salem 2.92%
72 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News 2.87%
73 Knoxville 2.85%
74 Albuquerque 2.28%
75 Wichita 2.17%
76 Jackson 2.06%
77 Cincinnati 2.04%
78 Worcester 2.02%
79 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington 1.75%
80 Springfield 1.68%
81 Birmingham-Hoover 1.56%
82 Memphis 1.46%
83 Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton 1.36%
84 Albany-Schenectady-Troy 1.28%
85 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis 1.28%
86 Chicago-Naperville-Elgin 0.95%
87 St. Louis 0.86%
88 Providence-Warwick 0.76%
89 Rochester 0.21%
90 Dayton 0.21%
91 Akron 0.15%
92 Detroit-Warren-Dearborn 0.13%
93 Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Niagara Falls -0.02%
94 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford -0.09%
95 Pittsburgh -0.14%
96 Syracuse -0.32%
97 New Haven-Milford -0.35%
98 Toledo -0.66%
99 Cleveland-Elyria -0.79%

Yeah, the general populace has no clue just how much SA has grown in just the last five years, let alone last ten.

Nearly 70% of new yearly growth is from transplants (domestic in-migration) moving here.

But the last five years, just urban development wise, with the emergence of the Pearl and Southtown, has been incredible. Now with San Pedro Creek and Hemisfair, the next five will be even more incredible. Just the recent projects announced are skyline changing.

New Frost HQ.
30-story residential.
23-story hotel.
21 story Thompson Hotel and Residence.

Plus just tons and tons of infill developments. A 292-unit mixed use development was just announced for Southtown today.

Here's a recap of the tallest buildings recently proposed for downtown San Antonio that I mentioned above.


FROST HEADQUARTERS │ OFFICE │ 400 FEET
http://i.imgur.com/6WSQR4A.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/JQDLXDf.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/IkEUr8m.jpg?2

http://i.imgur.com/zRf3dLC.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/KWxHj4X.jpg?1

THOMPSON HOTEL AND RESIDENCES │ MIXED-USE │ 273 FEET
http://i.imgur.com/l0yqwPu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wvJdskr.jpg

CANOPY HOTEL │ HOTEL │ 247 FEET
http://i.imgur.com/unAkCpp.jpg?1

JMJ TOWER RIVERWALK │ RESIDENTIAL │ 30 STORIES
http://i.imgur.com/SJQKSaX.jpg
This is only a massing rendering. It is not a final design.


MAP
http://i.imgur.com/Ixddw9E.png?1

Why are the towers in San Antonio so short ?

Serious question. USAA has a huge building square footage wise, but a very short building ?

Why are the towers in San Antonio so short ?

Serious question. USAA has a huge building square footage wise, but a very short building ?

Because it's a huge HQ campus out in suburbia where land was/is cheaper than downtown/urban core. Same reason Valero has a HQ campus 17 miles northwest of downtown on the far northwest side.

It's like Apple, Facebook, etc and their HQ campuses in Silicon Valley or Microsoft in Washington.

Funny enough, last year USAA bought a building downtown and moved some employees into it. They then put their name at the top.

http://downtownsanantonio.org/files/mapdata/wg/wu/5ug/OneRiverwalk_USAA.jpg

You can see the (now) USAA building in the second rendering for the Thompson Hotel and Residences.

Also, not all local companies build low in the suburbs. Tesoro built a high rise HQ campus some 15 miles north of downtown.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Tesoro_Corporation_headquarters,_San_Antonio.jpg

We have a thread for the San Antonio developments:

San Antonio | Deep In The Heart: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=35797&highlight=San+Antonio

This link is from OU Institute for Quality Communities that used census data 2014-2015.
However the difference is it shows county by county. So this data would more narrowly define "OKC Community" and show how much growth is going on in the counties that are not Oklahoma County but are in in the MSA. I would not personally include data from Grady, Cleveland when discussing the growth of OKC.

http://iqc.ou.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/rankings-1-1024x936.jpg
http://iqc.ou.edu/2016/04/04/2015-oklahoma-population-estimates/

This link is from OU Institute for Quality Communities that used census data 2014-2015.
However the difference is it shows county by county. So this data would more narrowly define "OKC Community" and show how much growth is going on in the counties that are not Oklahoma County but are in in the MSA. I would not personally include data from Grady, Cleveland when discussing the growth of OKC.

http://iqc.ou.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/rankings-1-1024x936.jpg
http://iqc.ou.edu/2016/04/04/2015-oklahoma-population-estimates/

Why the heck not? S. OKC is IN Cleveland county.

Why the heck not? S. OKC is IN Cleveland county.

That is a very good point that I did not factor into my opinion. I was coming from the perspective of why count Norman, Moore, Chickasha, El Reno, Shawnee, etc in a number that was specific to the topic of OKC. So revisiting I would opine that OKC specific zip codes or zip codes that are 95% or more in OKC be used when determining growth or loss.

I don't think the intent of this thread is to limit discussion to only the population within the OKC city limits.

I don't think the intent of this thread is to limit discussion to only the population within the OKC city limits.

Agree,

When you look at population you count your market; your market is your metropolitan area (MSA/CSA) figures.

The latest population figures as of July 2015 estimates Oklahoma City:

Central City/Urban - Oklahoma City 27th @ 631,346
Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

Metropolitan Statistical Area - Oklahoma City 41st @ 1,358,452
Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Combined Statistical Area - Oklahoma City 39th @ 1,430,327
Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area

2040 projections:

Oklahoma City MSA: 1,874,995
Tulsa MSA: 1,169,293
Lawton: 136,185
Stillwater: 96,105
Shawnee:78,536
Enid: 75,512

Full list here: http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2016/10/11/projectionsdatabase.html

Would be nice if OKC boomed and we saw 2.5 or more. That is lousy growth compared to some of the other major metros that are in the top 10.

Lol, nothing growth related to OKC is ever good enough for you Plu :p

I was just thinking how by 2040, that estimated figure may be a little on the low end considering the amenities OKC will have by then. It'll be a city ripe for growth.
Tulsa, on the other hand, well, that seems about par for the course.

...
I was just thinking how by 2040, that estimated figure may be a little on the low end considering the amenities OKC will have by then. It'll be a city ripe for growth.
Tulsa, on the other hand, well, that seems about par for the course.

It is almost laughable how often it seems articles play up how much work goes into showing almost linear growth of recent years continuing, then miss any trend shift that actual analysis should have seen coming