Also, out of metro areas with over 1 million persons, OKC ranked 12th in population growth from 2010-15.

OKC is ready to become a very high growth City. OKC is changing, fast, new entertainment, dining, recreation and education opportunities needs only to be accompanied by jobs for college students and the cities population will explode. OKC is ready, let's not lose the momentum. Milwaukee is relatively slow growth. Could catch them in 15-20 years

OKC is ready to become a very high growth City. OKC is changing, fast, new entertainment, dining, recreation and education opportunities needs only to be accompanied by jobs for college students and the cities population will explode. OKC is ready, let's not lose the momentum. Milwaukee is relatively slow growth. Could catch them in 15-20 years


One of these years I assume Shawnee will be added to the cities metro pop. and we will see an instant increase to about where Jax is. I think it should be added now as many people commute to and from on a daily basis.

One of these years I assume Shawnee will be added to the cities metro pop. and we will see an instant increase to about where Jax is. I think it should be added now as many people commute to and from on a daily basis.

Can we expect more of a natural meshing to occur between Shawnee and OKC in the near future along the corridors (I-40 mostly)?
As in a gradual growth towards one another. I know Texas is big on counting that when factoring growth as their communities literally merge closer to one another each year. Particularly DFW.

Found an article with interesting maps.

Arlington, Alexandria lead nation for millennial migration - Washington Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2014/09/18/arlington-alexandria-lead-nation-for-millennial.html)

Oklahoma County's change in millennial population (years 21-36) from 2007-2013 increased by 17.4%.
Tulsa County increased by 13.4%.
Davidson County (Nashville) increased by 37.1%.
Shelby County (Memphis) increased by 6.9%.
Wake County (Raleigh) increased by 18.4%.
Mecklenburg County (Charlotte) increased by 32.3%.
Duval County (Jacksonville) increased by 19.2%.
Marion County (Indianapolis) increased by 26.2%.
Jackson County (KCMO) increased by 14.2%.
Douglas County (Omaha) increased by 14.7%.
Dallas County (Dallas) increased by 13.9%.
Tarrant County (Ft Worth) increased by 11.8%.
Travis County (Austin) increased by 27.2%.
Bexar County (San Antonio increased by 17.7%.
Harris County (Houston) increased by 19%.
City and County of Denver increased by 57.5%.
Multnomah County (Portland, OR) increased by 41%.

Found an article with interesting maps.

Arlington, Alexandria lead nation for millennial migration - Washington Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2014/09/18/arlington-alexandria-lead-nation-for-millennial.html)

Oklahoma County's change in millennial population (years 21-36) from 2007-2013 increased by 17.4%.
Tulsa County increased by 13.4%.
Davidson County (Nashville) increased by 37.1%.
Shelby County (Memphis) increased by 6.9%.
Wake County (Raleigh) increased by 18.4%.
Mecklenburg County (Charlotte) increased by 32.3%.
Duval County (Jacksonville) increased by 19.2%.
Marion County (Indianapolis) increased by 26.2%.
Jackson County (KCMO) increased by 14.2%.
Douglas County (Omaha) increased by 14.7%.
Dallas County (Dallas) increased by 13.9%.
Tarrant County (Ft Worth) increased by 11.8%.
Travis County (Austin) increased by 27.2%.
Bexar County (San Antonio increased by 17.7%.
Harris County (Houston) increased by 19%.
City and County of Denver increased by 57.5%.
Multnomah County (Portland, OR) increased by 41%.

The surprise here is Austin only increasing by 27.2%.

Legal marijuana in Denver likely contributes to the high rate of millennial migration there.

2015 population estimates for cities and towns will be released soon, sometime this month.

2015 population estimates for cities and towns will be released soon, sometime this month.

Here's one article from the TulsaWorld with some of the latest figures:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/census-bureau-glenpool-fastest-growing-city-in-state/article_4714706b-23db-59ab-b051-b09d1b84c46c.html

Fastest growing cities, 2014 to 2015
City, percentage change, 2015 population

Glenpool, 9.9 percent, 13,225
Piedmont, 5.8 percent, 7,118
Luther, 5.3 percent, 1,541
Goldsby, 5 percent, 2,102
Tuttle, 3.9 percent, 6,805
Jenks, 3.8 percent, 20,740
Newcastle, 3.2 percent, 9,438
Mustang, 3.1 percent, 20,226
Douglas, 3 percent, 34
Union City, 3 percent, 1,942

-

Top 10 most populous Oklahoma cities
City, population, Percent change 2014-15 (increase unless noted)

Oklahoma City, 631,346, 1.7 percent

Tulsa, 403,505, 0.8 percent

Norman, 120,284, 1.8 percent

Broken Arrow, 106,563, 1.7 percent

Lawton, 96,655, 0.5 percent decrease

Edmond, 90,092, 1.6 percent
Moore, 60,451, 2 percent
Midwest City, 57,249, 0.3 percent
Enid, 51,776, 0.9 percent
Stillwater, 48,967, 1.1 percent

From the link:



Elsewhere, Tulsa saw its population increase by 3,288 residents to 403,505 during the one-year period ending July 1, 2015. The 0.8 percent increase is the second fastest one-year increase since 2010 for Tulsa.

Elsewhere, the Oklahoma City population grew by 10,328 residents to 631,346 during the one-year period ending July 1, the most among cities in the state.

Conversely, about 225 towns lost population during the past year.

And to compare growth with our neighbors down South (there isn't much to compare...):

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/how-suburbs-are-fueling-texas-population-surge.html/

OKC has grown by over 51,000 people since the 2010 Census, ranking 18th in the country in raw numbers, and representing an 8.9% increase since 2010.

This is interesting:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/research.buildzoom/Projects/2016/Slowdown/Maps/Oklahoma_City_Shawnee__OK_CSA_loop.gif

Do you have the top 20 that you can share or a link to the source?

Pop. change 2010-2015
1. New York +375,272
2. Houston +196,773
3. Los Angeles +179,262
4. San Antonio +142,438
5. Austin +141,440
6.Phoenix +117,393
7. Dallas +102,276
8. Charlotte +95,673
9. Fort Worth +92,113
10. San Diego +87,526
11. Denver +82,387
12. San Jose +80,966
13. Seattle +75,791
14. Washington DC +70,505
15. Columbus +63,073
16. San Francisco +59,581
17. Nashville +53,388
18. Oklahoma City +51,347
19. Boston +49,543
20. Portland +48,533

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/05/cleveland_population_slows_fin.html?appSession=126 51911617742195454433143373652429342102661436130442 36666571657490444452281939945176027348175226658794 3123462699554490251632277

That is super impressive company to be with. OKC almost added more than San Francisco!

Impressive for an urban area that continues to increase in population:

Oklahoma City, OK 631,346 . . . . . . . . +51,347 (Five year increase 12.30%)

Great to see OKC in the company (raw #s slightly ahead) of Boston & Portland in urban development--with Nashville, San Francisco & Columbus in sight. Boston & Portland have development phases of the modern streetcar; city will roll out its version (Dallas style) in 2018--which will have the flexibility to go off-wire.

Good sign for things to come for our Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) with 50% of our growth in the central city. Transit & road construction (widening & new roads) will be key in our MSA growth & development. OKC is on the verge...

Impressive for an urban area that continues to increase in population:

Oklahoma City, OK 631,346 . . . . . . . . +51,347 (Five year increase 12.30%)

Great to see OKC in the company (raw #s slightly ahead) of Boston & Portland in urban development--with Nashville, San Francisco & Columbus in sight. Boston & Portland have development phases of the modern streetcar; city will roll out its version (Dallas style) in 2018--which will have the flexibility to go off-wire.

Good sign for things to come for our Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) with 50% of our growth in the central city. Transit & road construction (widening & new roads) will be key in our MSA growth & development. OKC is on the verge...

And strong growth is expected even if oil doesn't get closer to $100 a barrel, and the Oklahoma Legislature continues to make poor decisions? I wonder how many local college graduates are planning on leaving Oklahoma for better jobs and/or over the backward political culture?

And strong growth is expected even if oil doesn't get closer to $100 a barrel, and the Oklahoma Legislature continues to make poor decisions? I wonder how many local college graduates are planning on leaving Oklahoma for better jobs and/or over the backward political culture?

It is definitely something I have been hearing in my group of friends.

I understand the sentiment of just moving, but how about getting involved in the political process and making a difference. I do think there are a lot of people fed up with the status quo in Oklahoma government (or maybe that's just what people in my circle are saying). I know a lot of teachers are running for elected office and I expect them to be less dogmatic and more pragmatic, which is what Oklahoma needs in the least. I hope young people choose that difficult path. One of my former students wrote this: https://medium.com/@davidpostic/dear-oklahomans-who-want-to-leave-bd5c758c1fb0#.o11ug03qp

I understand the sentiment of just moving, but how about getting involved in the political process and making a difference. I do think there are a lot of people fed up with the status quo in Oklahoma government (or maybe that's just what people in my circle are saying). I know a lot of teachers are running for elected office and I expect them to be less dogmatic and more pragmatic, which is what Oklahoma needs in the least. I hope young people choose that difficult path. One of my former students wrote this: https://medium.com/@davidpostic/dear-oklahomans-who-want-to-leave-bd5c758c1fb0#.o11ug03qp

Great post. That pretty much sums up how I feel as well. I'm sick and tired of people saying "I'm leaving Oklahoma because of this and that" blah, blah blah. For me it comes down to this on people that constantly threaten to leave the state:

1. If you really want to leave because your so offended by what is going on at the capital, etc, then go and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Stop making idol threats and follow through. The bitching and complaining is annoying and at best, completely unproductive.

2. Stay and work on being part of the solution. If you're really that upset about how things are going, stop making threats to leave and put that energy toward fixing any number of the issues we're currently facing.

3. Do absolutely nothing. If you're in this camp, stop making your idol threats to leave the state and stop bitching and moaning every time an asinine bill is passed. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

People need to stop worrying about stupid stuff that the legislature does. Especially if it doesn't affect them or their quality of life. I've lived in Oklahoma for nearly 3 years and my only real gripes with the state are roads and the budget. My roommate is always bitching about the budget issues (despite it doesn't affect him), yet he doesn't want cuts in spending or tax increases. Um, one of those two needs to happen. Maybe both. I'm traditionally not for increasing taxes but I'd support an increase in the cigarette tax and that one cent tax to help education funding. Aside from those two issues (which just about every state has), I love Oklahoma. Very few other states I'd live in. I'll just continue doing what I'm doing.

Great post. That pretty much sums up how I feel as well. I'm sick and tired of people saying "I'm leaving Oklahoma because of this and that" blah, blah blah. For me it comes down to this on people that constantly threaten to leave the state:

1. If you really want to leave because your so offended by what is going on at the capital, etc, then go and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Stop making idol threats and follow through. The bitching and complaining is annoying and at best, completely unproductive.

2. Stay and work on being part of the solution. If you're really that upset about how things are going, stop making threats to leave and put that energy toward fixing any number of the issues we're currently facing.

3. Do absolutely nothing. If you're in this camp, stop making your idol threats to leave the state and stop bitching and moaning every time an asinine bill is passed. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I'm not sure if you were directing this at me or just commenting in general.

Honestly, it is easier to move to a different state than try to revolutionize the politics in one's current state. There are some that are able and willing to fight. Others have other time devotions that they do not want to give up.

Remember, the legislature in Texas does even more ridiculous stuff and that state continues to boom and grow very fast, and has much bigger pockets of moderate and liberal types than Oklahoma (Austin, urban Dallas and Houston, etc.).

The difference is that many people in Oklahoma have a big inferiority complex and feel like every time there is some quasi- stupid thing that happens here, that everyone else will write the whole state off as a bunch of backwards rubes.

By far the worse thing about all this is the constant complaining about this, as it makes it all feel like a much bigger deal than it actually is.

The bottom line is the huge majority of this "embarrassing stuff" is only recognized by people living here and very little of it has any actual impact of the quality of life in general or your life in particular.

Yes, so just ignore it all and stop complaining. We have food trucks so be happy!

I'm not sure if you were directing this at me or just commenting in general.

Honestly, it is easier to move to a different state than try to revolutionize the politics in one's current state. There are some that are able and willing to fight. Others have other time devotions that they do not want to give up.

It wasn't necessarily directed at you but it certainly applies. If your life is so negatively affected by the actions made or not made at Lincoln and 23rd...and you're willing to repeatedly threaten to leave the state, but do nothing to fix the problem...then see option 1. If you plan to make a bunch of idol threats to leave the state because of your "outrage" see option 3.

It's one thing to be upset and want change, but I'm sick and tired of the self loathing and sky is falling attitude some have taken here and elsewhere.

"Gah, people are seeing this and are going to never want to move here and Oklahoma sucks and I hate the place and everyone thinks we're hicks.."

People from other states: "You guys see the game last night?"

"Gah, people are seeing this and are going to never want to move here and Oklahoma sucks and I hate the place and everyone thinks we're hicks.."

People from other states: "You guys see the game last night?"

Sort of true and I get your point, but if you don't think this state gets a ton of negative publicity for some of the extreme political decisions coming out of the legislature you're definitely mistaken. The latest round of craziness from last week was front page on WaPo, Gawker, etc. etc. I also get the point that endlessly whining and moaning while doing nothing about it is annoying (I mean, for starters, at least VOTE!) but not everyone has the time or patience to devote to trying to change the system that is also so entrenched against them. That's a big job to expect of people who simply want more reasonable policies, and I personally don't blame them for growing pessimistic and seeking a better life for themselves. We only have so much time, and for young people who aren't yet tethered, there's plenty incentive to get out while they can as opposed to trying to up end the system here.

Sort of true and I get your point, but if you don't think this state gets a ton of negative publicity for some of the extreme political decisions coming out of the legislature you're definitely mistaken. The latest round of craziness from last week was front page on WaPo, Gawker, etc. etc. I also get the point that endlessly whining and moaning while doing nothing about it is annoying (I mean, for starters, at least VOTE!) but not everyone has the time or patience to devote to trying to change the system that is also so entrenched against them. That's a big job to expect of people who simply want more reasonable policies, and I personally don't blame them for growing pessimistic and seeking a better life for themselves. We only have so much time, and for young people who aren't yet tethered, there's plenty incentive to get out while they can as opposed to trying to up end the system here.

Thank you.

Having lived outside OK for 30yrs in Ohio, Oregon and California, I don't hear anyone singling out OK for politics. They lump OK into the South and consider all of the South as backwards and having crazy politics. When I mention OK, the first topic is always tornadoes. No one ever says, "did you see the wacky thing the OK governor did," but they will say "was your family hit by those tornadoes."

I can't believe people are trying to spin our legislature's horrible decisions as having no effect on individual quality of life. Are you kidding? LOOK AT THE STATE'S PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. If you don't think that is effecting anyone's quality of life, you are off your rocker.

What have any of you that are playing this moral high ground game done to change the budget deficit and it's effect on Public Education? FOH with that holier than thou bull crap.

Any one can play that game. Having spent a large amount of time in Canada the last few years, any time someone found out I was from OK, they ALWAYS brought up our politics. Always. I've gotta take a break from this site for a bit. You guys are nuts.

The people that have never lived outside of OK are often the one most livid and self loathing about the legislature. There's no frame of reference. I've lived in several different states and am positive no state has a monopoly on idiocy in state politics.

You can be pissed about the schools, but if you go to a state with better schools they are pissed off about taxes, the low tax states are pissed off about roads and so on and so on.

It's what state legislatures do, they are borderline insane institutions. Oklahoma needs to get rid of term limits (good idea, but results back fired as the state is constantly being run by a bunch of amateurs.) and start meeting once every two years like Texas.

The issues with the public schools are legitimate and need to be addressed and soon.

99% of the rest of the stuff isn't that big of a deal, just politicians trying to rally their base.

I have more discussions on politics with other people from Southern states. My brother in-law is always comparing his Louisiana politics to OK and thinks LA is less crazy than OK. I've never had anyone in CA in 20yrs compare OK politics to CA. They only gripe about how over taxed CA is.

Sort of true and I get your point, but if you don't think this state gets a ton of negative publicity for some of the extreme political decisions coming out of the legislature you're definitely mistaken. The latest round of craziness from last week was front page on WaPo, Gawker, etc. etc. I also get the point that endlessly whining and moaning while doing nothing about it is annoying (I mean, for starters, at least VOTE!) but not everyone has the time or patience to devote to trying to change the system that is also so entrenched against them. That's a big job to expect of people who simply want more reasonable policies, and I personally don't blame them for growing pessimistic and seeking a better life for themselves. We only have so much time, and for young people who aren't yet tethered, there's plenty incentive to get out while they can as opposed to trying to up end the system here.

And exactly how are the vast majority of young people being negatively affected by anything happening right now? Especially to the point of needing to seek a better life elsewhere? It's not like they're trying to flee a war torn country for survival or leaving Mexico to make more money in the US. If you have kids in school, I can understand the concern, but even then, that is somewhat of an exaggerated issue if you live in a good school district (though it is a major issue that needs more attention than it is getting).

I'm not disagreeing that things could be better, that we have many borderline stupid elected officials (but who doesn't?), and that there are many issues to fix, however I think the "outrage" and complaining far exceed the severity of most of the issues. That being said, I think the issues with education are very real and need to be addressed, but most of the other crap is just noise that will never be passed or hold up to a legal challenge (transgender issues, gay marriage, abortion, impeaching Obama...I mean seriously, he'll be out of office in 6 months, ten commandments statue, etc). What annoys me more than any of the headline generating stupidity is their focus on issues that don't matter over those that really do.

Hey Sally Kern is gone for good! That's a plus!

I can't believe people are trying to spin our legislature's horrible decisions as having no effect on individual quality of life. Are you kidding? LOOK AT THE STATE'S PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. If you don't think that is effecting anyone's quality of life, you are off your rocker.

What have any of you that are playing this moral high ground game done to change the budget deficit and it's effect on Public Education? FOH with that holier than thou bull crap.

How exactly is anything I've said nuts?

And honestly, I haven't made any attempt to do anything to change the budget yet...but I'm not one of the people constantly complaining and making idol threats to leave the state to make myself feel better.

Eliminating the EITC effects people in real life, the education system's budget deficit effects people in real life, raising the sales tax to pay for education disproportionately effects low income families, the transgender bill effects people in real life, making abortion a felony effect people in real life. To write off the state legislatures actions as not effecting anyone is nuts. Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on Oklahoman's QOL.

Having lived outside OK for 30yrs in Ohio, Oregon and California, I don't hear anyone singling out OK for politics. They lump OK into the South and consider all of the South as backwards and having crazy politics. When I mention OK, the first topic is always tornadoes. No one ever says, "did you see the wacky thing the OK governor did," but they will say "was your family hit by those tornadoes."

You are right. when we were working with the first wave of relocation for Boeing employees we asked them to submit their concerns and questions so we could address them. One of the common questions was "how do you deal with tornados every day?" .

Even as someone who currently lives out of state, I must say it was hella embarrassing last Friday when Jimmy Kimmel opened up his monologue with the legislature's ridiculous "emergency" against trans people. On the flip side, there has been plenty of trans hysteria in other states; it's just the outrage of the month.

Truthfully I could dismiss a lot of this as just typical red state nonsense, especially considering how little of this actually becomes law (as an aside, we should be thanking our lucky stars that Brad Henry packed the State Supreme Court).

But let's keep it real though. I mean, would YOU get up and move to a state with a family that ranks 49th (quickly headed towards 50th) in education funding? That cannot even keep the schools open for a full year? Or one that would rather give tax credits to every Tom Dick and Harry than fix crumbling infrastructure?

Most Okies would be surprised how many people in DFW would strongly consider relocating to OKC or Tulsa given how expensive and crowded this area has become. I get asked about this area quite a bit. And then they actually start looking at how this state is run, and that idea is quickly snuffed out. Oklahoma is missing out on a lot of people and business and running off what we do have here.

I defend this city and state all the time. But I don't know how much gas I have left in that tank.

Eliminating the EITC effects people in real life, the education system's budget deficit effects people in real life, raising the sales tax to pay for education disproportionately effects low income families, the transgender bill effects people in real life, making abortion a felony effect people in real life. To write off the state legislatures actions as not effecting anyone is nuts. Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on Oklahoman's QOL.

I said the education issues are real and need to be addressed. The transgender bill affects a very small part of the population and will likely not be passed. Seriously, the fact that you bring up the abortion bill as a real issue is laughable...no way that would stand up to a legal challenge. And actually yes, if the actions of the legislature outside of education issues don't affect the vast majority of the state, then they don't affect OK's QOL much...especially for bills that aren't even passed.

Eliminating the EITC effects people in real life, the education system's budget deficit effects people in real life, raising the sales tax to pay for education disproportionately effects low income families, the transgender bill effects people in real life, making abortion a felony effect people in real life. To write off the state legislatures actions as not effecting anyone is nuts. Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on Oklahoman's QOL.

Every bit of legislation impacts someone and nobody said anything about these things not doing so.

The point is people are trying to argue that young people are looking to leave the state over these things and that perhaps all this is affecting our growth rate. How do square this will all the crazy crap continuously coming out of Texas, while they are completely booming and have been for decades?

I just don't believe people are leaving the state in droves because of some wacky proposed bill about transgendered bathroom laws. (And I assure you, I have known many more transgendered people in my life than probably anyone here; I directly manged several at work).


I merely think if you sit around and stew that IT'S ALL GOING TO HELL AND NOW LOOK AT THIS you can find plenty of things to make you unhappy and discontented.

And try moving to California or Oregon or New York where many of these issues are better addressed. There are absolutely crushing tax rates and plenty of other things to make people want to leave, especially once you start looking at things negatively and seek reinforcement of those feelings.

The issue with LGBT issues, which the Oklahoma legislature loves to focus on, is that it has a great effect on business investment in this state. While the LGBT community is a small percentage of the population, a lot of businesses today don't want to invest in places that are perceived as being anti-gay. Look at what has happened in North Carolina. Anybody who wants to see this state move forward, regardless of their religious beliefs on homosexuality, needs to be concerned about what is happening at the Capitol.

I do agree out of all of the issues facing the state, education is the most important. The state must do something about that problem. Oklahoma brands itself as a great place to raise a family, but that doesn't hold up when you start to look at the public school system in most of the state.

The issue with LGBT issues, which the Oklahoma legislature loves to focus on, is that it has a great effect on business investment in this state. While the LGBT community is a small percentage of the population, a lot of businesses today don't want to invest in places that are perceived as being anti-gay. Look at what has happened in North Carolina. Anybody who wants to see this state move forward, regardless of their religious beliefs on homosexuality, needs to be concerned about what is happening at the Capitol.

I do agree out of all of the issues facing the state, education is the most important. The state must do something about that problem. Oklahoma brands itself as a great place to raise a family, but that doesn't hold up when you start to look at the public school system in most of the state.

It doesn't matter. Just move to Deer Creek and all of your issues are taken care of, apparently.

It doesn't matter. Just move to Deer Creek and all of your issues are taken care of, apparently.

You are being uncharacteristically ridiculous right now and completely misrepresenting what everyone has said.

Two can play at that game though...even better than moving to Deer Creek, just move out of the state and everything will be 1000 times better...right? If you move to Texas, Colorado, California, Kansas, or nearly anywhere other than Oklahoma, all of your problems will be solved and your wildest dreams will come true. Am I right?

Man that grass sure looks greener anywhere but here...

Just to be clear, nothing has yet happened on this transgendered bathroom bill.

It's merely being proposed and as with most of the related social issues, there has been and will continue to be considerable backlash.

I personally don't get upset if some wingnut local politician proposes something stupid. More often than not these things never go anywhere I refuse to let a small group of idiots ruin how I feel about my city and state.

And if you haven't noticed, things are changing. Younger generations of voters are much more liberal in their thinking on social issues and whatever short-term silliness that gets passed won't last long. In case people have already forgotten, gay couples can get married in the state of Oklahoma now. All is not complete blackness on these issues.

Most people I've met in OKC fall into one of these categories concerning the politics here.

1) They are happy with the politics and support the efforts of legislators like Sally Kern. They are reactionary social conservatives and believe standing firm against the "gay agenda" is worth whatever economic backlash comes with it because the state is taking a stand for morality. When people complain about it, they will usually say that if you don't like the conservative family values of Oklahoma, leave but don't try to change it.

2) Progressive minded people who refuse to recognize and/or downplay the severity of the problem here. They dislike the politics and politicians like Sally Kern, but justify it by saying all states have their backwards politicians and Oklahoma is no different. They will point to other red states like Texas that have had their share of embarrassing legislation proposed and how it hasn't affected economic growth there. What they don't see is though other states have their problems and embarrassments, there are things that other states do right that Oklahoma does not. It's important to realize that criticism of Oklahoma's politics doesn't center around one specific issue but many issues combined. These are also the people that tend to be apathetic when it comes to voting, which makes them a part of the problem. Note that this isn't all progressive-minded people here, but from my personal experience, I've noticed this trend.

3) Progressive minded people who recognize the extent of the problem and either have left or talk about leaving because of it. They realize that the state leans so right-wing they believe there comes a time to just stop pushing against the tide and move to a place that is a closer match to their political and cultural sensibilities. I don't blame them for that. After all, we only get one life and if a person will be happier moving elsewhere then they should do what makes them happy. However, if progressive minded people leave the state in droves, then the problems here will only get worse.

Remember, the legislature in Texas does even more ridiculous stuff and that state continues to boom and grow very fast, and has much bigger pockets of moderate and liberal types than Oklahoma (Austin, urban Dallas and Houston, etc.).

The difference is that many people in Oklahoma have a big inferiority complex and feel like every time there is some quasi- stupid thing that happens here, that everyone else will write the whole state off as a bunch of backwards rubes.

By far the worse thing about all this is the constant complaining about this, as it makes it all feel like a much bigger deal than it actually is.

The bottom line is the huge majority of this "embarrassing stuff" is only recognized by people living here and very little of it has any actual impact of the quality of life in general or your life in particular.

I've lived in Kansas and Texas for the last five years and the legislatures are very similar, which is also ridiculous. Oklahomans have this false sense that this stuff is only happening in Oklahoma and it's not true at all. Again, having said that, it's still absurd and ridiculous. People need to get involved.

Most people I've met in OKC fall into one of these categories concerning the politics here.

1) They are happy with the politics and support the efforts of legislators like Sally Kern. They are reactionary social conservatives and believe standing firm against the "gay agenda" is worth whatever economic backlash comes with it because the state is taking a stand for morality. When people complain about it, they will usually say that if you don't like the conservative family values of Oklahoma, leave but don't try to change it.

2) Progressive minded people who refuse to recognize and/or downplay the severity of the problem here. They dislike the politics and politicians like Sally Kern, but justify it by saying all states have their backwards politicians and Oklahoma is no different. They will point to other red states like Texas that have had their share of embarrassing legislation proposed and how it hasn't affected economic growth there. What they don't see is though other states have their problems and embarrassments, there are things that other states do right that Oklahoma does not. It's important to realize that criticism of Oklahoma's politics doesn't center around one specific issue but many issues combined. These are also the people that tend to be apathetic when it comes to voting, which makes them a part of the problem.

3) Progressive minded people who recognize the extent of the problem and either have left or talk about leaving because of it. They realize that the state leans so right-wing they believe there comes a time to just stop pushing against the tide and move to a place that is a closer match to their political and cultural sensibilities. I don't blame them for that. After all, we only get one life and if a person will be happier moving elsewhere then they should do what makes them happy. However, if progressive minded people leave the state in droves, then the problems here will only get worse.

And as usual, you overgeneralize everything based on the last two pages of discussion....

And as usual, you overgeneralize everything based on the last two pages of discussion....

I didn't even read it all. This post is from my personal experience with discussing the politics with people, off OKCTalk.

I don't see how anything in that post was over the top negative or hyperbole.

3) Progressive minded people who recognize the extent of the problem and either have left or talk about leaving because of it. They realize that the state leans so right-wing they believe there comes a time to just stop pushing against the tide and move to a place that is a closer match to their political and cultural sensibilities. I don't blame them for that. After all, we only get one life and if a person will be happier moving elsewhere then they should do what makes them happy. However, if progressive minded people leave the state in droves, then the problems here will only get worse.

There are plenty of progressive people who don't like things the way things are but don't threaten to move because of it,

I'm very progressive and didn't leave due to politics and politics didn't stop me from coming back and won't have much on an influence on me staying or going.

You hate it here -- I've seen several posts of yours that say this out-right -- but it's possible to disagree with a lot of the politics and not be a complete hater.

I'm not disagreeing that things could be better, that we have many borderline stupid elected officials (but who doesn't?), and that there are many issues to fix, however I think the "outrage" and complaining far exceed the severity of most of the issues. That being said, I think the issues with education are very real and need to be addressed, but most of the other crap is just noise that will never be passed or hold up to a legal challenge (transgender issues, gay marriage, abortion, impeaching Obama...I mean seriously, he'll be out of office in 6 months, ten commandments statue, etc). What annoys me more than any of the headline generating stupidity is their focus on issues that don't matter over those that really do.

Hey Sally Kern is gone for good! That's a plus!
So are the legislators going to concentrate on overriding Gov. Fallin's veto on their anti-abortion bill, or instead, concentrate on making sure a bill gets out so the voters can vote on alcohol law reform in November? I know there are other pressing issues as well.

So are the legislators going to concentrate on overriding Gov. Fallin's veto on their anti-abortion bill, or instead, concentrate on making sure a bill gets out so the voters can vote on alcohol law reform in November?

I think they'll move on. People I know who are in the know said she told the legislature she is no longer forgiving or forgetting and pet projects will start to get a veto if they keep this up.

So are the legislators going to concentrate on overriding Gov. Fallin's veto on their anti-abortion bill, or instead, concentrate on making sure a bill gets out so the voters can vote on alcohol law reform in November?

Flip a coin and call in in the air...that will be better than my guess.

To no one in particular:

The sky is falling only in Oklahoma to some people. Yet again, it's that self-hate that is so prevalent in this state.
Either fight these battles or leave, it's that simple. But spare the constant drudgery and negativity. Let's address the core subject matter of this thread: more people are staying and coming to Oklahoma than vice versa, the proof is in the numbers. So it must not be AS BAD as some insist.

Just last year everything was dandy. It took this oil downturn and everything has gone to Hades, despite the continued developments in both major cities and around the state. The legislature is full of incompetent morons, yes. So vote them out.

And if you haven't noticed, things are changing. Younger generations of voters are much more liberal in their thinking on social issues and whatever short-term silliness that gets passed won't last long.

That was surely said of the young people from the 1960's and 1970's, the hippies. Now look how they want to rule as in Trump and Sanders.

That was surely said of the young people from the 1960's and 1970's, the hippies. Now look how they want to rule as in Trump and Sanders.

In a general political sense, there is always an ebb and flow between liberal and conservative but on social issues, the overall country is way, way more progressive with each passing decade.

And if you look at how things shake out for those under 40 versus those who are not, you'll see that trend is rapidly accelerating.

I think they'll move on. People I know who are in the know said she told the legislature she is no longer forgiving or forgetting and pet projects will start to get a veto if they keep this up.

Fallin actually said this? Wow.

I think they'll move on. People I know who are in the know said she told the legislature she is no longer forgiving or forgetting and pet projects will start to get a veto if they keep this up.

Wow. For once (or twice), good for her.

Most people I've met in OKC fall into one of these categories concerning the politics here.

1) They are happy with the politics and support the efforts of legislators like Sally Kern. They are reactionary social conservatives and believe standing firm against the "gay agenda" is worth whatever economic backlash comes with it because the state is taking a stand for morality. When people complain about it, they will usually say that if you don't like the conservative family values of Oklahoma, leave but don't try to change it.

2) Progressive minded people who refuse to recognize and/or downplay the severity of the problem here. They dislike the politics and politicians like Sally Kern, but justify it by saying all states have their backwards politicians and Oklahoma is no different. They will point to other red states like Texas that have had their share of embarrassing legislation proposed and how it hasn't affected economic growth there. What they don't see is though other states have their problems and embarrassments, there are things that other states do right that Oklahoma does not. It's important to realize that criticism of Oklahoma's politics doesn't center around one specific issue but many issues combined. These are also the people that tend to be apathetic when it comes to voting, which makes them a part of the problem. Note that this isn't all progressive-minded people here, but from my personal experience, I've noticed this trend.

3) Progressive minded people who recognize the extent of the problem and either have left or talk about leaving because of it. They realize that the state leans so right-wing they believe there comes a time to just stop pushing against the tide and move to a place that is a closer match to their political and cultural sensibilities. I don't blame them for that. After all, we only get one life and if a person will be happier moving elsewhere then they should do what makes them happy. However, if progressive minded people leave the state in droves, then the problems here will only get worse.

So in other words, there's a wide array of political opinions and voter participation here, just like... everywhere else? Not sure what else to get out of this post.

The main problem I see is lack of voter participation. 29.8% in 2014?! That's the lowest it has ever been since at least 2000. I admittedly run in fairly progressive circles, but everywhere I go I hear outrage at the legislature over education cuts, attacks on the LGBT community, etc. All the usual. There's outrage everywhere, it seems. And yet nothing changes. It's entirely possible that the people I engage in are completely removed from the electorate here, but more likely I think most liberals and progressives just assume the situation is hopeless and have given up. They assume everything will be "red" regardless and totally check out and become apathetic. Call it social media slacktivism if you must, but I've at least been urging all of my friends to vote at every opportunity I get. I'm sure they're sick of it by now. I don't know the best way to change that other than screaming about it on social media, but I think we could do so much better just by getting people involved. On the bright side, I've seen *tons* of signs in my partner's neighborhood in House District 87 for Kelly Meredith, so at least myopically in the neighborhood there seems to finally be a real push for some change going on.

Most people I've met in OKC fall into one of these categories concerning the politics here.

1) They are happy with the politics and support the efforts of legislators like Sally Kern. They are reactionary social conservatives and believe standing firm against the "gay agenda" is worth whatever economic backlash comes with it because the state is taking a stand for morality. When people complain about it, they will usually say that if you don't like the conservative family values of Oklahoma, leave but don't try to change it.

2) Progressive minded people who refuse to recognize and/or downplay the severity of the problem here. They dislike the politics and politicians like Sally Kern, but justify it by saying all states have their backwards politicians and Oklahoma is no different. They will point to other red states like Texas that have had their share of embarrassing legislation proposed and how it hasn't affected economic growth there. What they don't see is though other states have their problems and embarrassments, there are things that other states do right that Oklahoma does not. It's important to realize that criticism of Oklahoma's politics doesn't center around one specific issue but many issues combined. These are also the people that tend to be apathetic when it comes to voting, which makes them a part of the problem. Note that this isn't all progressive-minded people here, but from my personal experience, I've noticed this trend.

3) Progressive minded people who recognize the extent of the problem and either have left or talk about leaving because of it. They realize that the state leans so right-wing they believe there comes a time to just stop pushing against the tide and move to a place that is a closer match to their political and cultural sensibilities. I don't blame them for that. After all, we only get one life and if a person will be happier moving elsewhere then they should do what makes them happy. However, if progressive minded people leave the state in droves, then the problems here will only get worse.

You left out:
4) Other people, perhaps as much as the majority, are just apathetic and don't give a damn one way or the other.

I've lived in Kansas and Texas for the last five years and the legislatures are very similar, which is also ridiculous. Oklahomans have this false sense that this stuff is only happening in Oklahoma and it's not true at all. Again, having said that, it's still absurd and ridiculous. People need to get involved.

To expand on this, consider the following regarding Texas politics, specifically how it relates to social issues:

-Lt Gov Dan Patrick has already indicated that he will push for a NC-style "bathroom bill" and is willing to risk his reelection on it. In TX, the Lt Governor has the power to shape legislation far more than the actual Governor.

-Houston became one of the few large cities last year to vote down an anti-discrimination ordinance.

-In Dallas, there have been 15 beatings of gay men since this fall, largely in Oak Lawn. It took a large media outcry for the police and mayor to really even make an effort to investigate these crimes. They are still unsolved.

-Ted Cruz...enough said.

Many more that I cannot remember. Now that I think about it, Texas can be an incredibly hostile place for certain groups, possibly moreso than Oklahoma. I think Okies are just far more self-aware than Texans. We are a small state and a bit of a blank slate to most of the nation. I think most educated people here are very sensitive to our image and how we present ourselves to the world. It can branch out into self-loathing but ultimately I do think it is a good thing.

Don't forget that Mary Lou Bruner -- a woman who seems to be completely disconnected from reality and reliant on Facebook political gossip for her primary source of information -- could be elected to the Texas State Board of Education: http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/mary-lou-bruner/

Strange days indeed.

Every bit of legislation impacts someone and nobody said anything about these things not doing so.

The point is people are trying to argue that young people are looking to leave the state over these things and that perhaps all this is affecting our growth rate. How do square this will all the crazy crap continuously coming out of Texas, while they are completely booming and have been for decades?

I just don't believe people are leaving the state in droves because of some wacky proposed bill about transgendered bathroom laws. (And I assure you, I have known many more transgendered people in my life than probably anyone here; I directly manged several at work).


I merely think if you sit around and stew that IT'S ALL GOING TO HELL AND NOW LOOK AT THIS you can find plenty of things to make you unhappy and discontented.

And try moving to California or Oregon or New York where many of these issues are better addressed. There are absolutely crushing tax rates and plenty of other things to make people want to leave, especially once you start looking at things negatively and seek reinforcement of those feelings.

Absolutely correct. The grass is always greener on the other side. It took me 2 months in Portland to realize it was a terrible place to live. The tax rate is soul crushing. The homeless problem and high crime in Portland wa startling, the traffic was terrible (2-3 hours in the car each day). Taking the light rail to work was a crapshoot on whether or not you would be late to work because of a homicide at a MAX station, or an unlicensed driver crossing the tracks and hitting a train and shutting the system down for several hours. The people are incredibly rude too.

Denver is as close to home as I could get, and I started work in Denver a few weeks ago. I'm biweekly commuting from Portland to Denver right now, and moving my things when my lease expires in Portland at the end of next month. And I can honestly say, I will never voluntarily step foot in Portland again after June 30. I cannot wait to end my association with that city.

My point of that soapbox rant is: Oklahoma has so much going for it that Oklahomans take for granted, including myself before I moved. You get all of the east/west coast amenities if you live downtown, at a fraction of the price.

As embarassing as our lawmakers are, you can still live in a comfortable bubble of your own choosing in OKC. If you want space there's plenty to go around, if you want the urban scene. Downtown OKC is the best you'll get in the country at the price point.

Personally, after living in the super dense land of Portland. I would be fine living in the suburbs and having my own yard and private space. I can't talk on the phone because my neighbor can hear the whole thing, and vice versa. Just feels like there's always someone listening or watching.

There's just too many good things to say about Oklahoma City now that I have the outside perspective, the rest of it is just static. The positives outweigh the negatives and I would come back in a heart beat.

Sorry to drag on and if it seems to jump around, I am having a difficult time getting my phone to scroll through the text box (not a site issue, my screen is bugging out)