Shadid emphasized three of the major problems that result from sprawl: the city’s climbing obesity rates, thanks to a lack of walkability, the taxpayer burden of providing infrastructure to outlying areas and rising energy costs.


We need to find a way to get that message to the street. Any ideas? Are radio spots and billboards an option? How about Jeff Foxworthy saying, "If you drive your car to the gym, you might be part of the problem." or "If you spend more money on gasoline than you do on your car payment, you might be part of the problem." or "If you spend more time in your car than you do with your kids, you might be part of the problem."

How about billboards along I-35 and Broadway extension that say, "If you lived in the urban core you would have been home 45 minutes ago."

While looking up some info on the OKC Chamber site I cam across this little bit of info.

http://www.okcchamber.com/index.php?submenu=Transportation&src=gendocs&ref=Transportation&category=OklahomaCity


In the City of Oklahoma City alone there are 12,647 miles of streets; a distance equal to driving from Oklahoma City to Valdez, Alaska.

OKC to Valdez, AK is only about 2500 miles. 12,647 would get you to Perth, Austrialia - with 2,000 miles left over.

We need to find a way to get that message to the street. Any ideas? Are radio spots and billboards an option? How about Jeff Foxworthy saying, "If you drive your car to the gym, you might be part of the problem." or "If you spend more money on gasoline than you do on your car payment, you might be part of the problem." or "If you spend more time in your car than you do with your kids, you might be part of the problem."

How about billboards along I-35 and Broadway extension that say, "If you lived in the urban core you would have been home 45 minutes ago."

Urban settings have positives & negatives, the number one reason people are in the suburbs now are the schools, some have other reasons why they are unlikely to move. Walkability in my book is still at least third in climbing obesity rates; poor diet is #1 and lack of exercise is #2 (I do not count since the walking to/from mass transit stops as exercise since for the majority of people it is nowhere as any good exercise routine for cardio or strength), if you look at New York and Chicago have two of the bester mass transit systems and urban design in the US and still are not strikingly better than the rest of the country and obesity rates are rising their as well. Outside of an accident it rarely will ever take 45 minutes for the majority of people to get to the opposite edge of the city, let alone a normal commute or shopping. If you want to market to someone: first you better bring accurate facts, second an ad campaign insinuations they are stupid will accomplish nothing.

How are these for facts?



The Census Bureau numbers back that up. The mean commute time for workers in the Oklahoma City metro area was 21.6 minutes in 2010, with 3.3 percent of commuters needing more than an hour to get to work

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-transit-reform-is-stalled-in-the-slow-lane/article/3609757#ixzz1ZgEGhuok

50% of the people in OKC spend more than 21.6 minutes commuting. While that is still short of 45 minutes, my idea was to target people who have the most to gain by living in the urban core. You can't market to everyone - you have to market to people who are most likely to buy what you are selling. In this case, the people who spend 45 minutes commuting, which at a minimum is 3.3% of commuters.

Did my suggestions above pinpoint you as maybe being part of the problem? Don't feel bad, my wife drives to the gym also and it is only 1.5 miles from the house (actually it is only 600 feet as the crow flys but we live in a stupid subdivision that prevents her from taking the shortest route between two points).

On a related note, about 3 months ago I started biking with the kids for the exercise and fun. Now that I can cover 6 miles without breaking a sweat I stopped riding for fun and I now ride for errands and shopping. I need to get a small trailer to pull behind the bike so I can buy more than few items while I am out. Every time I ride the bike instead of turning on the engine it brings a smile to my face, and my wallet. I should have been doing this a long time ago.

Even my oldest son is catching on. He wants to ride to stores that are even further away. He is giddy at the idea that he can ride his bike to the store (and to a small degree - so am I). It never occurred to him that a bike could be used as transportation. He just thought it was a toy.

50% of the people in OKC spend more than 21.6 minutes commuting. While that is still short of 45 minutes, my idea was to target people who have the most to gain by living in the urban core. You can't market to everyone - you have to market to people who are most likely to buy what you are selling. In this case, the people who spend 45 minutes commuting, which at a minimum is 3.3% of commuters.


I mistook the phrasing of the previous comment as the 45 minutes being the total distance of the drive they are just completing instead of the round trip millage of the commute.


Did my suggestions above pinpoint you as maybe being part of the problem?

It is more of meeting and thread seem to somewhat gloss over any negatives of the urban core and any positives of the suburbs. I have concerns with the current approach at best it could become a place for those interested in developing an urban spaces to meet and work on ideas, we then might get a few additional areas of well designed growth to happen while most of the growth continues as sprawl.

Round trip vs. one way commuting; you bring up a good point. I assumed the numbers from the paper were one-way times. If you live in Norman and work in Oklahoma City there is no way you are going round trip in less than 45 minutes. You might be able to make it to the Norman city limits that fast but not to your driveway.

Your last sentence is a little unclear to me. Are you suggesting that the next meeting needs to be more about solutions and less about identifying the problems? I am not saying all people aren't educated on the subject but based on the reader comments in the Oklahoman a little urban education would go a long ways for some people. From my own personal experience, I have learned a lot just in the last 3 weeks. Some of the self-education validated what I already thought but a lot of it has been brand new knowledge. In that light, I would like to see the next few meetings be an education in the new urbanism. If we are going to heard cats, let's at least used trained cats. Once the population has a basic knowledge base, finding solutions will be much easier.

fwiw, from central Norman driveway to parked and out walking in downtown OKC is typically under 22 minutes one way by car, about 25-28 if I ride the Sooner Express. Also about 22 minutes if going direct to the capitol or close by it. By personal vehicle I routinely used to run about 28-30 minutes from central Norman to being parked and out just off NW 64rd & May, barring someone jamming an off ramp with a wreck or a flat.

Of course, I don't time my trips to depart during game traffic on my end, nor do I set my morning departures to coincide with the masses. It's not terribly difficult to avoid the peaks, simply because so few bother to try.

Kevin - are you making that drive in rush hour or is that a 'no traffic' time? Anyone living in Norman that works downtown willing to put a stop watch on their morning and afternoon commute?

Kevin - are you making that drive in rush hour or is that a 'no traffic' time? Anyone living in Norman that works downtown willing to put a stop watch on their morning and afternoon commute?

As I noted - "It's not terribly difficult to avoid the peaks, simply because so few bother to try." I don't pop out the driveway at 7:38 and expect to be sipping a soda at the Subway across from the courthouse and DT library at straight up 8:00.

However, the total time frame that I-35 will resemble a narrow parking lot is fairly short lived. It doesn't take a lot of effort, am or pm, to avoid that hassle. Some, but not a lot, and again, that's because so few bother to try, bless their hearts.

Just drove downtown from Moore to OKC and back in "rush hour." 25 minutes going including total stops on I-35. Quite a bit of that time was inside downtown though. Probably be better when the streets are finished. About 20 minutes on the return.

Used to spend more time than that on the entrance ramp to I-35 near where I lived in Dallas area.

Flinty, what time where you on 35 NB between 240 and 40?

Flinty, what time where you on 35 NB between 240 and 40?Maybe 7:15 or so -- not sure exactly. Southbound was about 8:15 or 8:20 maybe.

Yeah, that sounds about right for that driving time then. It gets a bit worse the closer you get to 8.

Yeah, that sounds about right for that driving time then. It gets a bit worse the closer you get to 8.Yes and I understand that there was a gravel truck at Tecumseh that delayed northbound traffic sometime this morning. Stuff like that happens. Sometimes I will take Shields though just to have lighter traffic. Takes about the same amount of time usually.

Oklahoma City traffic still seems pretty good to me by comparison to where I lived in Dallas and Kansas City.

That likely explains what I noticed on Robinson between 35 and Flood Ave earlier while getting gas and chatting with a friend. Folks diverting to Flood/77 to bypass Tecumseh makes sense. It was definitely not the normal Robinson vehicle mix.

There was also what looked like a 3-car fender bender sitting in the middle lane just south of the 35/235/40 interchange this morning, at least when I went through around 6:50-ish. Didn't cause me too much of a problem, but I felt a little sorry for the folks trying to come through later, it was starting to get backed up.

Since this thread is discussing various commute times I will also offer that my home to office commute is about 6 miles and usually takes 15 minutes. I have another frequent commute out west that's about 8 or 9 miles that takes about 15 minutes. I have a frequent trip out near Mercy that's about a 20 to 25 minute trip and another to a couple of places in Edmond that's in the 20 to 25 minute range.

From Moore to Norman to eat lunch at Cajun King or Misals or even somewhere in UNP is about 15 to 20 minutes for me. East Norman or Campus Corner is a lot longer though.

Several years ago there weren't many places to go for lunch around my office in the Moore area so we always left. Now there are more choices so we don't leave the area as much. Funny how we've come to think that places we used to frequently drive or so far away now.

Added:
And we chose the location of our home to be as central as possible to the main places we often traveled.

I think that's pretty much what people do anywhere whether in an urban, suburban, or rural setting.

Blair Humphreys continues the sprawl discussion:

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-13187-shaping-a-better-city.html