Man it would be awesome,but we all know jerry jones would never allow for that to happen....

Not going to happen for decades upon decades,OKC just doesnt have The population base to support The NFL or the base to fill up an NFL stadium and then fill up OU's stadium all in one weekend!

Be happy with the NBA and the amazing college schools we have here. The more people try to make us like a major city, the more this city will become like a major city with all the "fun" extras. Thankfully for those that want to live in a city with several major league teams can take a 2-3 hour drive south and move to Dallas.

Never happen. Too few people/companies with enough money to make it a going operation.

OKC cannot support an NFL team but can pack 85,000 plus for decades in Norman ??? Right, OKC could easily support an NFL team and would !!!

OKC cannot support an NFL team but can pack 85,000 plus for decades in Norman ??? Right, OKC could easily support an NFL team and would !!!

That's hardly on the same economic level. It doesn't equate. Filling a stadium is not all that it takes for an NFL team to be successful.

OKC cannot support an NFL team but can pack 85,000 plus for decades in Norman ??? Right, OKC could easily support an NFL team and would !!!

Not even apples and oranges. The cost structure is TOTALLY different. Kinda like making the mistake of comparing state fairgrounds dirt track racing and NASCAR. No legitimate comparision.

Ok, Green Bay can support an NFL team and not OKC, I believe not...NFL would be a huge success in OKC despite the doubting Thomas's...

Ok, Green Bay can support an NFL team and not OKC, I believe not...NFL would be a huge success in OKC despite the doubting Thomas's...

Do you even know the background about the Packers? I would suggest researching how that community manages their team compared to other NFL cities. It is a completely different operation up there when compared to other NFL cities.

NFL would be a huge success at the expense of everything else. It is great to want big things for our community, but enough is enough. The minute we start adding additional professional sports team, is the minute they start eating into each others income.

Exactely the point venture79. Soonerus the number of dollars to support the NFL and other things is pretty finite and fixed. It is not unlimited. When you look at Green Bay they have the packers and NOT MUCH ELSE of a civic/cultural nature. They have all their eggs in ONE basket. Again you are making the mistake of comparing two things that are not even similiar. Apples vs Oranges. That is a stupid way for OKC to do business.

Green Bay is supported by all of Wisconsin and Milwaukee, they are also pretty much one of the founding members of the NFL and therefore hold a special place in the league. The fact that it is a community owned team (and the only one allowed to be by league rules) keeps them in Green Bay and was incorporated that way in 1923 and grandfathered into the NFL as the only team not majority owned by a single individual. If they had been owned in the conventional way more than likely they would have relocated in the 70-80's when they were bad, in any other market attendance would've probably declined to the point where they would have moved. In fact their games were split between Green Bay and Milwaukee until Miller Park was built to replace the old Milwaukee Stadium in 1995.

Green Bay and Buffalo would never have a chance to get an expansion franchise or relocation in the modern NFL, the only reason why they have them is because of the time they got teams. The Packers have been there since 1921 (my grandfather played for them in the 40') and Buffalo was one of the original AFL franchises. At the time (1959) Buffalo was a major industrial city and one of the more populous cities in the country (ranked 20th).

The NFL is driven by television money and the desire is to locate in the largest TV markets to maximize ad revenue even though it is truly a national sport now that goes well beyond MSA/TV market boundaries. The NFL has never hidden that fact and the main reason why they want a team in LA, the second largest television market. The other league owners would probably block a team moving to OKC because of television market size. The sad fact is that many advertisers only look at those numbers, not a "catchment" area which would move OKC up a little on the list after some of the other areas that are relatively closed to each other would be combined. There also isn't the corporate infrastructure in OKC to be able to support two major league franchises, especially one with the expenses of NFL football. Many multi-team markets are struggling to support the teams they do have, KC struggles some with both the Chiefs and Royals because of corporate defections over the years. Look into ticket and suite price differences between the Dallas Cowboys (pretty much at the high end of the NFL) and what OU tickets/suites cost. The per ticket cost at OU is a fraction of Dallas and when you add up the difference between 6-7 home games versus 10 home games (8 regular season, 2 preseason) PLUS the personal seat licenses that are required at most stadiums the cost differential is staggering. Even a lower cost ticket like KC offers is about the cost of a comparable OU ticket and donation.

The other sports are more dependent upon that and their regional sports network contracts, especially baseball with limited revenue sharing through the player payroll luxury tax. There is a reason why teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have the payrolls they do, in the case of the Yankees and Red Sox they own the RSN's that broadcast their games so they receive all ad revenues from those networks. The Phillies and Giants have very lucrative contracts with their RSN's which allow them to be in the upper echelon of payrolls.

I think it could be successful in terms of attendance, I don't think it could be very successful in the "other revenues" that the teams actually live on. The premium items are what makes the difference in a successful franchise and I don't think that OKC has enough of the types of buyers willing to pay for the premium level of everything that the teams need to survive. not a knock on OKC, I don't think San Antonio or Austin could support an NFL team much better even though DKR is over 100,000 seats. As MustangGT posted, they are completely different cost structures and really business worlds.

Same ole nay-sayer crap I heard on the boards all the time--"Oklahoma will never get an NFL team." In the early 1990s, the NBA would never come to Oklahoma. THUNDER! THUNDER! THUNDER!

Wake up people, get your feet out the sand and quit sitting on your own face; you might accidentally expell gas!

What's Jerry Jones got to do with it? The same was said about Mark Cuban.

Have a facility plan or a facility in place and your chances of getting an NFL franchise just might increase.

Look at Indianapolis, Nashville & Jacksonville; they either had a facility or a planned facility in place. Oklahoma City has bigger advantages than those cities as far as facilities are concerned--we're on a MAPS roll. 2017 MAPS IV will include some king of stadium; do we think BIG or small?

You want an NFL franchise(?); or do you want to keep supporting Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver or Houston's teams and their economies.

The NBA is NOT the NFL,let's set that straight!Indy and Nashville have more of a population base to draw from not only in their metro's but in their regions,and both these metro's have a much higher GDP than OKC and would help for corporate sponsers,now Jacksonville is the odd ball out and while it has a larger city and metro population it is closer to OKC's,but Jacksonvilles decline in attendance and low media market is hurting it and may ultimately end up in LA.I say that "never" is too strong of a word but I think OKC could support an NFL franchise in about 20-30 years,then our population and media markets will be much larger but for now OKC cannot support an NFL franchise.Let's just focus on the one we allready have!

It would be awsome to have an NFL team in Oklahoma, Im sure it will happen in like 3 decades from now or when ever, everybody knows Oklahomans love football. I think we can sell out every game night, just think of OU and OSU combined, The entire State would support it. Thats why Nebraska's college stadium is the way it is because the entire state loves them huskers.

The NFL in OKC will have all the excitement and drama of the NFL in Atlanta. Both are college football cities and it doesn't matter how many millions of people you have. Atlanta has 3 kinds of sports fans: Georgia, Gerogia Tech, and Braves - in that order. OKC has OU, Thunder, and OSU - and probably in that order.

I'm stunned at the number of people who don't understand some basic facts about economics and population.

Let's get the basics out of the way. Oklahoma City cannot support an NFL franchise. Period. Why?

First, the underlying costs for establishing/transferring/getting (fill in your favorite word) an NFL franchise are on the order of $1 billion. We have some very nice emerging industrial/corporate presence in this city, and they're great for supporting the NBA, but don't have that kind of scratch.

Second, population is ABSOLUTELY a vital element of the equation, because that's your fan base. You have to do the math that estimates how much discretionary income people have to spend on things like football tickets - and, mind you, not just six or seven home games a year, but a minimum of ten, not including playoffs. Eight regular season games, plus (generally) two home pre-season games which virtually every franchise in the league forces you to purchase as part of a season ticket package. Given that the average NFL ticket price is around $100-$125, that means a pair of season tickets is going to run right at $2500 - to say nothing of parking, and then concessions that will be priced at a level to make OU home games look like fast-food prices.

Third, we have no facility. An NFL-caliber facility hosting a minimum of 60-65K people plus luxury suites is going to be - again - a venture on the order of $1 billion, and guess who's going to get hit up to finance it - OKC taxpayers. Most people here don't realize we got the current arena on the drastically cheap, and the fact that it's completely paid for is a huge advantage in landing our NBA team. But there's no way on earth anyone can front that kind of money when Jerry World is three hours away. You think OKC folks are prime for a MAPS 4, 5, or 6 to pay for an NFL football stadium? Not hardly. And, no, we can't use OU or OSU's stadiums because you can't sell beer at either location, and the NFL and beer are married like white on a polar bear.

There was a story a few weeks ago about a city that sold bonds and raised various taxes to build a new stadium, and the project has turned sour for the city with huge debt and the slow economy drying up revenues. It was a model of what not to do. In a word, it was a mess.

Believe me, the notion of the NFL in OKC is a fun and dreamy prospect. I don't like to shoot down the idea. But I'm also compelled to view such a project with reality, and the reality is that our fandom for OU and OSU at the college level does not, in any way, shape, or form, translate into NFL-caliber financial support. It just isn't going to happen.

Fantasy and wishful thinking sometimes cloud judgement and hard realities of something as loft as this. Oklahoma is just not that big of a state or that rich of a state.

I think it would fly! Would take a lot of infrastructure changes to build a stadium, etc., however, think about places like Kansas City (which has two pro franchises) or Buffalo (which is a dying rust belt city). KC is not far off in its demographic from OKC and Buffalo, in my opinion, is way behind OKC. OKC has the benefit of a close proximity to Tulsa & Wichita that it could draw off of for attendance & fan support also. Dallas, of course, would have major opposition to this as it would cut into their fan base.

Green Bay is supported by all of Wisconsin and Milwaukee, they are also pretty much one of the founding members of the NFL and therefore hold a special place in the league. The fact that it is a community owned team (and the only one allowed to be by league rules) keeps them in Green Bay and was incorporated that way in 1923 and grandfathered into the NFL as the only team not majority owned by a single individual. If they had been owned in the conventional way more than likely they would have relocated in the 70-80's when they were bad, in any other market attendance would've probably declined to the point where they would have moved. In fact their games were split between Green Bay and Milwaukee until Miller Park was built to replace the old Milwaukee Stadium in 1995.

Green Bay and Buffalo would never have a chance to get an expansion franchise or relocation in the modern NFL, the only reason why they have them is because of the time they got teams. The Packers have been there since 1921 (my grandfather played for them in the 40') and Buffalo was one of the original AFL franchises. At the time (1959) Buffalo was a major industrial city and one of the more populous cities in the country (ranked 20th).

The NFL is driven by television money and the desire is to locate in the largest TV markets to maximize ad revenue even though it is truly a national sport now that goes well beyond MSA/TV market boundaries. The NFL has never hidden that fact and the main reason why they want a team in LA, the second largest television market. The other league owners would probably block a team moving to OKC because of television market size. The sad fact is that many advertisers only look at those numbers, not a "catchment" area which would move OKC up a little on the list after some of the other areas that are relatively closed to each other would be combined. There also isn't the corporate infrastructure in OKC to be able to support two major league franchises, especially one with the expenses of NFL football. Many multi-team markets are struggling to support the teams they do have, KC struggles some with both the Chiefs and Royals because of corporate defections over the years. Look into ticket and suite price differences between the Dallas Cowboys (pretty much at the high end of the NFL) and what OU tickets/suites cost. The per ticket cost at OU is a fraction of Dallas and when you add up the difference between 6-7 home games versus 10 home games (8 regular season, 2 preseason) PLUS the personal seat licenses that are required at most stadiums the cost differential is staggering. Even a lower cost ticket like KC offers is about the cost of a comparable OU ticket and donation.

The other sports are more dependent upon that and their regional sports network contracts, especially baseball with limited revenue sharing through the player payroll luxury tax. There is a reason why teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have the payrolls they do, in the case of the Yankees and Red Sox they own the RSN's that broadcast their games so they receive all ad revenues from those networks. The Phillies and Giants have very lucrative contracts with their RSN's which allow them to be in the upper echelon of payrolls.

I think it could be successful in terms of attendance, I don't think it could be very successful in the "other revenues" that the teams actually live on. The premium items are what makes the difference in a successful franchise and I don't think that OKC has enough of the types of buyers willing to pay for the premium level of everything that the teams need to survive. not a knock on OKC, I don't think San Antonio or Austin could support an NFL team much better even though DKR is over 100,000 seats. As MustangGT posted, they are completely different cost structures and really business worlds.

Revenue sharing in the NFL is far better than the NBA, and the television contract is far more lucrative. That's why smaller cities can support the NFL. While I see your point, I don't see any of them as insurmountable obstacles, although I'm not sure who lives here who would spend the money to buy a team. What I do, however, see as an obstacle is the fact that there are bigger cities than OKC without NFL teams. Los Angeles and Portland are two of them, San Antonio/Austin is another direct competitor. Unless there were at least four teams looking to move, I don't think it will happen. And I am quite sure expansion is over for the forseeable future.

I think it would fly! Would take a lot of infrastructure changes to build a stadium, etc., however, think about places like Kansas City (which has two pro franchises) or Buffalo (which is a dying rust belt city). KC is not far off in its demographic from OKC and Buffalo, in my opinion, is way behind OKC. OKC has the benefit of a close proximity to Tulsa & Wichita that it could draw off of for attendance & fan support also. Dallas, of course, would have major opposition to this as it would cut into their fan base.

Buffalo is one of those old-timer franchises that would simply not exist were it granted under contemporary terms. Kansas City's core population is approx 485,000, with a greater metropolitan count of 2.1 million. Oklahoma City's core population is slightly higher (580,000), but its core metropolitan population is barely half that of KC at 1.2 million. That gives KC a huge built-in advantage for the support of one or more pro sports franchises.

I read somewhere in a discussion about growing cities that those who would aspire to have professional sports can generally estimate that they can support one pro franchise per 1 million in area population - that lines up perfectly with KC and OKC; KC at 2 million with 2 franchises, OKC at just over 1 million with 1 franchise.

Again, even if we had a franchise, we have no place to put them. How do we pay for a $1B stadium?

OKC does not have the income base at this time to support an NFL team. That is not a knock, a lack of support, nor pride in OKC rather a case of cold hard reality.

A recent study shows that an income base of 36.7 billion dollars is need to support a NFL team and currently OKC has an available base of a little over 15 billion.

Here is a link to that study: http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/08/los-angeles-is-the-clear-choice.html?appSession=105978846367462&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=&cpipage=1&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

Very interesting study. With the doldrums in LV I highly doubt they are even thinking NFL. With the cities love of MAPS and its continuation there is no way a 1+Billion stadium is in the future. How many past votes, turning it down, does it take to convince anybody that a domed stadium aka NFL facility here in OKC is a non-starter from the beginning.

...
Again, even if we had a franchise, we have no place to put them. How do we pay for a $1B stadium?

That's the easy part. You simply have the legislizards pass a state question that changes the necessary booze laws and let them play in Norman for the first decade. So easy, even cavemen conservs could do it.

HO HO HAHA HAHA HARDE HAR HAR
ACK! where's my dang pills?!?! I hates when I gets this way. No you don't. Yes, I do. Shad up you.

That's the easy part. You simply have the legislizards pass a state question that changes the necessary booze laws and let them play in Norman for the first decade. So easy, even cavemen conservs could do it.

HO HO HAHA HAHA HARDE HAR HAR
ACK! where's my dang pills?!?! I hates when I gets this way. No you don't. Yes, I do. Shad up you.

I'm going to ignore the silliness of suggesting that the NFL would even sanction the move of a franchise to a city with no stadium for a decade.

Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that happens (even though you and I know it never will, and at a college venue, never should). Then who pays for the rental and upkeep of Oklahoma Memorial Stadium? The new NFL franchise owners? Guess what - that'll get rolled into the part the city gets the privilege of paying for - to say nothing of the sheer headache of enduring back-to-back days of churning 85K people through Norman on a weekend with an OU game on Saturday, and this pipe-smoke notion of an NFL team on a Sunday?

Beyond that, How about training facilities? Is OU going to share the Everest center with an NFL team? Practice facilities? Workout and training sites?

Again, its the difference between the novelty of playing a single NFL exhibition game in Norman versus making it a regular home site. It ain't gonna happen.

And, with a tip of the hat to Venture, when you change the laws to allow them to sell beer at OMS all for the sake of the almighty NFL, you take a step in precisely the direction he warned of - that the NFL would succeed at the expense of everything else. I, for one, have no interest in seeing beer sold at OU home games. Mind you, its been tried; rumors were that Budweiser came in with a proposal to subsidize some new construction at OMS some time ago if they'd be given beer concessions, and the offer was politely but flatly rejected. And I was delighted.

All this is to get off the point that you can't just point to an existing stadium and say "We'll play there!!" and make it happen. Its a novel idea, but impossible as a practical matter and, I suspect, undesirable to OU for myriad other reasons.

The idea of the NFL in OKC is an interesting thought. We might be able to support a team in 10-20 years from now as others have suggested, but I personally just don't see us being able to right now. I know I'm officially in the Nay-Sayers group but we're still a good 15 or so years off, which is more then I coulda said 15 years ago. Although I would love to see it happen, and believe it is a possibility in the not-so-distant future, I'm not gonna hold my breath very long. Just out of curiousity, what would the name for an NFL team in OKC be? Sorry if this is off topic.

And here I was thinking the notion of it being easy to change our alcohol laws was the sillier part of my post.

You want an NFL franchise(?); or do you want to keep supporting Dallas, Kansas City, St. Louis, Denver or Houston's teams and their economies.

I don't support any of them now, so what's your point?

If Jacksonville can support an NFL team then OKC can support an NFL team. The problem is Jax can't support an NFL team.

Get Tulsa in on this by building a billion dollar stadium half way between OKC and Tulsa near Stroud and run high speed rail to it from both cities. Maybe the rail could be placed along side the Turner Turnpike. Get both Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to fund the project by raising county sales taxes through a vote of the people. Or build the stadium in Stillwater, so the rail could serve OKC and Tulsa people wanting to go to sports at OSU. To make the rail useful year round, probably a high rise gambling complex would be built near the stadium.

We are always going to have nay-sayers on the forum who don't really know what we have here in Oklahoma to support what. The same nay-sayers who said that OKC would never be able to support an NHL or NBA franchise. Well, when 2020 rolls around we should be ready. We have all the mechanisms in place that no other city has--MAPS! Let's start thinking BIG!


If Jacksonville can support an NFL team then OKC can support an NFL team. The problem is Jax can't support an NFL team.

An NFL city that closely mirrors OKC would be New Orleans. The demographics which determine an NFL franchise are Market (Population & Media), Stadium and Ownership. Oklahoma City mirrors New Orleans in Market. We are bigger than New Orleans in metro and central city population and more TV households:

1. Market
2. Stadium
3. Ownerhip Group

NFL requires that there be at least 2 million people living in a 100 mile radius. There are more than 3 million within a 100-miles radius of Oklahoma City.

MSA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

44 Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,252,987
46 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner, LA MSA 1,167,764

Central City: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

31 Oklahoma City Oklahoma 579,999
52 New Orleans Louisiana 343,829

Market Media TV Households: http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

45 Oklahoma City . . . 704,670
52 New Orleans . . . . 635,860

Stadium

Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium 82,000 - 85,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Family_Oklahoma_Memorial_Stadium
New Orleans Superdome 76,400 - 82.000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Superdome

New Orelans has only one Fortune 500 company
Oklahoma City has two-three Fortune 500 companies.


Yes, New Orleans has NFL and NBA for now. I don't know how long they will be able to sustain that kind of support.

Oklahoma City won't be ready for the NFL until around 2020. Stadium wouldn't be a problem; OU is willing to let the NFL use Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium as a temporary home provided OKC has an NFL stadium ready for finance and construction. A state ownership group wouldn't be a problem.

MAPS I had an NHL-NBA arena on its ballot.
MAPS IV (2017) will have some type of stadium; hopefully something big time which could support NFL if we decided to go that route.

The New Orleans Saints are owned by Dr. Benson of San Antonio, TX.

I don't believe that ownership would be a problem in Oklahoma.

New Orleans doesn't have the college football base competition that an NFL Oklahoma team would have. Tulsa is as close to OKC (106) as Baton Rouge is to New Orleans (81). You would definitely have to be on board with making an NFL franchise a state supported team.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

Yeah, after efforts to legalize gambling went down in defeat in Oklahoma in the 1990s, lots of people must have said lotteries and casinos would never come to Oklahoma. But less then 10 years later they came in. Probably all the casinos in Oklahoma are worth over a billion dollars.

We are always going to have nay-sayers on the forum who don't really know what we have here in Oklahoma to support what. The same nay-sayers who said that OKC would never be able to support an NHL or NBA franchise. Well, when 2020 rolls around we should be ready. We have all the mechanisms in place that no other city has--MAPS! Let's start thinking BIG!

You would be in better position to support your position if you chose a city that wasn't completely devastated by a natural disaster and hasn't recovered to levels before that. Don't forget, there were some indications that the owners of the Saints were thinking about staying in San Antonio...but decided to go back to NOLA. If the former owner of the Hornets had his way, we would be cheering for them still...not the Thunder. Luckily that didn't happen. :-)

Yeah, after efforts to legalize gambling went down in defeat in Oklahoma in the 1990s, lots of people must have said lotteries and casinos would never come to Oklahoma. But less then 10 years later they came in. Probably all the casinos in Oklahoma are worth over a billion dollars.

Bunty are ALL games available in LV possible at the Indian Casinos in OK???

I'm stunned at the number of people who don't understand some basic facts about economics and population.

Let's get the basics out of the way. Oklahoma City cannot support an NFL franchise. Period. Why?

First, the underlying costs for establishing/transferring/getting (fill in your favorite word) an NFL franchise are on the order of $1 billion. We have some very nice emerging industrial/corporate presence in this city, and they're great for supporting the NBA, but don't have that kind of scratch.

Second, population is ABSOLUTELY a vital element of the equation, because that's your fan base. You have to do the math that estimates how much discretionary income people have to spend on things like football tickets - and, mind you, not just six or seven home games a year, but a minimum of ten, not including playoffs. Eight regular season games, plus (generally) two home pre-season games which virtually every franchise in the league forces you to purchase as part of a season ticket package. Given that the average NFL ticket price is around $100-$125, that means a pair of season tickets is going to run right at $2500 - to say nothing of parking, and then concessions that will be priced at a level to make OU home games look like fast-food prices.

Third, we have no facility. An NFL-caliber facility hosting a minimum of 60-65K people plus luxury suites is going to be - again - a venture on the order of $1 billion, and guess who's going to get hit up to finance it - OKC taxpayers. Most people here don't realize we got the current arena on the drastically cheap, and the fact that it's completely paid for is a huge advantage in landing our NBA team. But there's no way on earth anyone can front that kind of money when Jerry World is three hours away. You think OKC folks are prime for a MAPS 4, 5, or 6 to pay for an NFL football stadium? Not hardly. And, no, we can't use OU or OSU's stadiums because you can't sell beer at either location, and the NFL and beer are married like white on a polar bear.

There was a story a few weeks ago about a city that sold bonds and raised various taxes to build a new stadium, and the project has turned sour for the city with huge debt and the slow economy drying up revenues. It was a model of what not to do. In a word, it was a mess.

Believe me, the notion of the NFL in OKC is a fun and dreamy prospect. I don't like to shoot down the idea. But I'm also compelled to view such a project with reality, and the reality is that our fandom for OU and OSU at the college level does not, in any way, shape, or form, translate into NFL-caliber financial support. It just isn't going to happen.


Good point, Sooner Dave.

SoonerDave all the proponents of this NFL dribble need to read your post as they are ignorant of the truth and reality. Thank you for educating the ignorant/indolent.

Get Tulsa in on this by building a billion dollar stadium half way between OKC and Tulsa near Stroud and run high speed rail to it from both cities. Maybe the rail could be placed along side the Turner Turnpike. Get both Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to fund the project by raising county sales taxes through a vote of the people. Or build the stadium in Stillwater, so the rail could serve OKC and Tulsa people wanting to go to sports at OSU. To make the rail useful year round, probably a high rise gambling complex would be built near the stadium.

Have had the same thoughts in regards to a NASCAR track.

This is never going to happen at least not in the next 10 years or so. I cant see OKC or Tulsa putting 60,000 people in seats for 8 weeks outta the year plus any preseason or playoff games. For one person your looking at 80-100 bucks for low end ticket plus 30-50 bucks to park and then whatever concessions you want.
Keep dreaming.......Were not big league yet regardless of what mayor mick feeds us.

This is never going to happen at least not in the next 10 years or so. I cant see OKC or Tulsa putting 60,000 people in seats for 8 weeks outta the year plus any preseason or playoff games. For one person your looking at 80-100 bucks for low end ticket plus 30-50 bucks to park and then whatever concessions you want.
Keep dreaming.......Were not big league yet regardless of what mayor mick feeds us.

Well, maybe when and if OSU can fill it's stadium with every football game every year like OU does with theirs.

Well, maybe when and if OSU can fill it's stadium with every football game every year like OU does with theirs.

One thing a lot of people keep missing is that NCAA football fans are not necessarily the same thing as NFL fans. They're almost different sports.

If wishes were horses beggars would ride. Maybe one day in the dark distance future but the reality is not in the next 10 years. That is not a naysayer that is REALITY. Think about BILLION dollar stadium. NOT going to happen anytime soon in OK. Like Just the facts posted JAX cannot and we cannot at this time.

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

One thing a lot of people keep missing is that NCAA football fans are not necessarily the same thing as NFL fans. They're almost different sports.



Agree, studies have shown that there is not a lot of overlapping.

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.
When it comes to construction, not really. I have found in doing projects all over Oklahoma and Texas that material and labor prices in this region are pretty consistent, no matter where the construction happens. The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.

When it comes to construction, not really. I have found in doing projects all over Oklahoma and Texas that material and labor prices in this region are pretty consistent, no matter where the construction happens. The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.


I can probably agree with most of that; I can say that I haven't done a lot of research in this area (land acquisition Texas-Oklahoma), however, based on the $16 million we spent on MAPS I, land acquisition in downtown Oklahoma City which included Bricktown Ballpark, Bricktown Canal, Riverfront Development and Indoor Sports Arena land was cheaper in Oklahoma City than Dallas-Ft. Worth. We built the Sports Arena at an initial investment of $97 million; this did not include all the bells & whistles which went into the Dallas America Airlines Center ($420 million); we've probably put an additional $100 million (MAPs for HOOPS) into the indoor sports arena (Chesapeake Energy Arena) costing rougy $200 million to date; less than half of what Dallas paid for the American Airline Arena. In all fairness to Dallas, there were some side developments in the AA Center which may or may not have been hidden into the development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Center

JerryWorld could probably be constructed here for around than $700 million and probably cheaper if built at Fair Park where land acquisition and most infrastructure development is already there. One of our local OKC steel companies had the contract for the construction of the stadium in Arlington. I'm sure we would want to place a stadium in Bricktown area near the Riverfront as opposed to Fair Pair.

In Febrary of 1967, the Oklahoman carried an article ("Huge City Stadium Asked.") about building an outdoor 75,000 - 100,000-seat stadium at Fair Park which would have cost us $5 to $7 million. Man, we need to get a stadium built while we can afford one because they are getting more expensive to build the longer we wait.

A billion dollars will buy a lot more in metro-OKC than in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

You think so? I don't. We're not talking about houses. I believe Jerry-World would have cost as much in OKC as it did in Arlington.

The only variable in a project of that size is land cost, I am not sure how the land acquisition for Jerryworld was handled, if that was done by the City of Arlington or by the Cowboys themselves but that land in Arlington wasn't exactly prime, top dollar land in the DFW Metroplex.

It was acquired by "Eminent Domain".

I know there was a lot of expense for environmental remediation of the land where the American Airlines Center sits. It was a nasty brownfield site with a large amount of contamination. I am not sure where those costs were accounted for, whether it was prior to the funding for the AAC or if they were included in the total.

The land costs and site prep are always the huge variable in any large project, I was mainly trying to state that material/labor costs are very similar in this market. We don't have a situation like a NYC or Washington DC market where there are innumerable of costs and taxes/fees on top of higher priced material and labor costs that exponentially make construction more expensive in those places.

I know there was a lot of expense for environmental remediation of the land where the American Airlines Center sits. It was a nasty brownfield site with a large amount of contamination. I am not sure where those costs were accounted for, whether it was prior to the funding for the AAC or if they were included in the total.

The land costs and site prep are always the huge variable in any large project, I was mainly trying to state that material/labor costs are very similar in this market. We don't have a situation like a NYC or Washington DC market where there are innumerable of costs and taxes/fees on top of higher priced material and labor costs that exponentially make construction more expensive in those places.

Labor cost are similar in both markets. I'm not knowledgeable about the bidding on projects here in Oklahoma; however, I do recall that the downtown indoor sports arena was grossly underbidded. I believe that once you win a bid, you are allowed a certain percentage you can go over that bid. I remember something like $66 million was the initial bid on the downtown indoor sports area. Someway, somehow it ended up costing us $89 - $97 million.

Flintco miscalculated the bid and was given the opportunity to forfeit their bid bond and be released from the project, they neglected to do that and proceeded with the project. Our project managers were afraid they were going to go into change order artist mode to try and make up the difference but they were pleasantly surprised that Flintco did not do that and worked with our people on potential cost issues very well. The large bid was the main building contract, other items like furnishings (seats, suites, etc.), scoreboards and other items involved in the finish out were bid in later packages and contributed to the final cost number.

Ok, Green Bay can support an NFL team and not OKC, I believe not...NFL would be a huge success in OKC despite the doubting Thomas's...

So true, continue to believe, everybody thinks that the NFL couldn't survive in OKC. It's surviving in New Orleans where the per capita income is slightly higher; yet comparable to that in OKC in demographics where OKC is larger in Population, TV Households and could find ownership investors. Oklahoma City has more Fortune 500 companies than New Orleans. The NFL is surviving in Jacksonville, FL.

I remember the year we were awarded the Olympic Festival in 1989. We orginially were trying to land a World's Fair. Oklahomans were so misinformed; they thought that our current 400 acres at Fair Park wasn't big enough to host an event of that magnitude. Knoxville, TN's World's Fair was held on 66 acres. Had we hosted the World's Fair in 1989, it would have been held on the largest acerage for any World's Fair. We assume that Oklahoma is too small for anything big without doing some research. We are our own worst enemies when it comes to selling and promoting our city and state.

Many thought that Oklahoma City would never get an NBA or NHL franchise and if we did--we couldn't support. Those days are the kind we need to put behind us. It's not a pipedream--it can become reality with a chance of materializing in seven to ten years if we have a facility financed or in place.

Think big, plan for the next level.

I said this on several forums in 1996 that OKC would get an NHL or NBA franchise with in the next decade and I was hearing these same ole stale comments then, that I am hearing now...

I love the enthusiasm, but OKC is just not ready or deserving of a second pro franchise yet. There are a ton of cities with way more people and money to spend. Again, while optimistic, this whole idea is very naive at this point. Sorry.

I said this on several forums in 1996 that OKC would get an NHL or NBA franchise with in the next decade and I was hearing these same ole stale comments then, that I am hearing now...

An NBA or NHL franchise is much easier to support than an NFL team. Apples and oranges. Why is it so hard to understand that? Yes it would be amazing to get a large franchise like that...but OKC has tons of growing up to do first.

As previously stated, Green Bay would have no chance to land an NFL team the way the league is currently structured. It is one of the founding members of the NFL and in fact has special conditions which allows them to remain in the league. Using Green Bay as a comparison as to how a small market team is able to compete is ludicrous, it mainly draws from Milwaukee and since they have been around since the inception of the league and one of its cornerstones they have developed a huge following of people who have never stepped foot in the entire state of Wisconsin let alone the City of Milwaukee or the Village of Green Bay. They are a special case and cannot really be used in any kind of comparison. Jacksonville is the closest comparison to OKC and everyone knows they are having issues, they also don't have 80 or so years of a fan base built up like a Green Bay and OKC wouldn't either. Some of the same things apply to the Buffalo Bills, they would never land a team in today's NFL. The only reason why the Saints are not in San Antonio is because the NFL told Tom Benson he couldn't move the team, he wanted to even before Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans but the NFL didn't want the stigma of "taking away New Orleans team" after the hurricane and Benson got help from the league to keep the team there. You think the backlash of the Sonics becoming the Thunder was/is bad, you could not imagine what the public reaction would have been if the Saints would have successfully moved to San Antonio after Katrina.

I have no doubt there are enough football fans in OKC that would like a team, but NFL teams don't make their money off the "Average Joe Fan". The AJF isn't going to spend double what OU season tickets cost and then an additional $5-25,000 in personal seat licenses for the opportunity to buy season tickets. They also aren't going to fill the luxury suites which is the major cash cow for the teams, let alone the television market size of OKC/Tulsa isn't going to bring a huge amount of money in terms of the national television contracts which is the primary money maker for the NFL and its teams. Check out what NFL season tickets cost (most of the teams have the info on their websites) and tell me that you can find 40,000 seats worth in OKC to pay what the league average is and then another 15-20,000 seats worth of suite and club level season ticket/PSL buyers. I get emails from the KC Chiefs about season tickets every year, theirs are downright affordable (in comparison to other NFL teams) because the Chiefs have been bad in recent years and they haven't been able to sell enough season tickets. KC is a larger market than OKC and has only one other of the Big 4 franchises (the Royals, they do have MLS as well) and are 50 year old or so franchise with a Superbowl title but yet they are still having problems as the KC market has been losing headquarters and major employers. To make the NFL work you have to have those corporations which are willing to spend "stupid money" on the luxury items like suites. If you don't have that, that is when teams relocate if they aren't tied to a city by a local owner who is willing to take a loss by not having the right facility and/or market. The NFL would never approve of a relocation or an expansion team to a market like OKC because 99.9% of what they care about is television market size and OKC isn't in the top 30 markets.

As much as I would be thrilled to see OKC with a team I don't want one there just to have it fail because the economics of the NFL are unlike any other professional sport outside of the English Premier League in terms of the cost of doing business at the local level.

An NBA or NHL franchise is much easier to support than an NFL team. Apples and oranges. Why is it so hard to understand that? Yes it would be amazing to get a large franchise like that...but OKC has tons of growing up to do first.

What is so difficult for you to understand about 2017-2020(?):
Time will tell! I'm not taking this personal; I gave my opinion and you gave yours! Thank you!