http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-113199-10445-1-debt-in-america-most-and-least-indebted-states?hp=true?ywaad=ad0035&nc

I thought this was interesting. Oklahomans have the lowest debt in the nation.

If this is the wrong area, could the mods move it?

Great Article!

Before anybody starts hailing the moral superiority of Oklahomans, the debt amount is tied to overall prosperity. Look at the bottom five--all five fighting for first in the worst things.

The more important number is how fast people are paying thier debts. In this aspect, California beats us and the rest of the nation is about where we are.

California and Hawaii may have higher amounts of individual debt, but they beat us in almost ever other quality of life measurement.

Before anybody starts hailing the moral superiority of Oklahomans, the debt amount is tied to overall prosperity. Look at the bottom five--all five fighting for first in the worst things.

The more important number is how fast people are paying thier debts. In this aspect, California beats us and the rest of the nation is about where we are.

California and Hawaii may have higher amounts of individual debt, but they beat us in almost ever other quality of life measurement.

Moral superiority? Huh. WHO KNEW, this would be used as an opportunity to trash Oklahomans! Never let an opportunity pass, I guess.

Moral superiority? Huh. WHO KNEW, this would be used as an opportunity to trash Oklahomans! Never let an opportunity pass, I guess.

Aren't we already having a discussion about comments and attitudes like these, and immediately get a "sour grapes" responses.

The article itself already pointed out that the numbers needed to be used carefully. Oklahomans may have the least debt, but that could also mean we have the least qualified group of people able to borrow.


Residents of California and Hawaii are the most indebted individuals in America, but they're also among a group that are making the most progress in paying down the amount they owe.

So it is all relative. Obviously areas that cost more to live are going to have people with high debt amounts. So these numbers could just be taken as a way to show how cheap it is to live here and people don't need as much debt as they do out west. They can also show that although our debt is low, they also show we don't pay off our portion of debt as fast as other states.

When you compare wealth (via median income)...7 out of the 10 in the most indebted states are among the top 10 richest in the US. When looking at those with the least debt, about half are the poorest in the US. It is all relative and we need to keep that in mind. (reference: http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Americas_wealthiest_states/index.htm)

Do default, bankruptcy, and foreclosure count as "paying down debt"? They do in this survey because it looks at change in total debt on avergae, not how the debt was relieved. Of course, paying off all this debt and not taking on new debt is what is actually causing the economy not to recover because we have a debt-based monetary system and it only works if total debt increases. As debt is paid off the money supply decreases.

I don't beleive I said anything trashy nor did I make any personal references.

This article contains info which seems obvious, not interesting to me. Anytime Oklahoma is in the same catagory as West Virginia, Arkansas, Mississippi, it isn't going to be anything to be proud of.

Here's a question:

What tangible, quantifiable things do we have along with our breathren in WV, AR, MS, & LA which are desirable quality of life indicators?
College Football doesn't count.

Many developing nations (a/k/a LDCs and third world countries) are almost always the fastest growing, outpacing the US and European countries. But would you want to change places with them?

So when Californians are paying their vast debts down faster than Oklahomans, it doesn't make me want to move there.

Moral superiority? Huh. WHO KNEW, this would be used as an opportunity to trash Oklahomans! Never let an opportunity pass, I guess.

the Oklahoma inferiority complex is alive and well!

Moral superiority? Huh. WHO KNEW, this would be used as an opportunity to trash Oklahomans! Never let an opportunity pass, I guess.

You're not defensive at all (as usual)..

You're not defensive at all (as usual)..

I think going to "moral superiority" was an oddball response. Don't you?

Do default, bankruptcy, and foreclosure count as "paying down debt"? They do in this survey because it looks at change in total debt on avergae, not how the debt was relieved. Of course, paying off all this debt and not taking on new debt is what is actually causing the economy not to recover because we have a debt-based monetary system and it only works if total debt increases. As debt is paid off the money supply decreases.
That doesn't make it morally correct that we have a debt based system, that's why Keynesian economics only work for so long, as we are finding out.

I love Oklahoma. That does not make me blind to how far we have to go.

Long before many of the carpetbaggers decided to come back here because we're so naive and therefore a conservative paradise and everything that is better than the liberal east or west coast, had been making great strides to improve. OKC continues to be a great example of how a city can turn a slum into a real gem. I drove down Walker from I-40 to 10th then east to I-35 and it is amazing how much has changed during the time that many on this forum were living elsewhere.

I voted for and paid for this with my tax dollars along with the others who made this happen. God Bless Ron Norick and Mick Cornet for being progressive enough to pull us out of the drearyness we live with for so long.

I have no resentment that we get to share it with new comers and cranky retirees.

However, until we no longer compete with WV, AR, LA, MS, and others for the worst of the worst, I'll not start beleiving we have anything to feel smug and superior about.

I don't see how anyone could take the original post as smug or superior. It was simply a dose of good news. I think you are just looking for an argument.

It was news, but good news? If you consider low income and poverty a positive then we rock!

I wasn't characterizing anything as smug and superior other than Oklahomans' odd tendency to feel smug and superior about what some folks like me think of as negative.

I think we're still in the top 5 for infant mortality, illiteracy, cancer, obesity, smoking, heart disease, teen pregnancy, VD, and all those other causes for celebration.

On top of all that great stuff, we don't have any of those educated people, liberals, oceans, beaches, tropical beauty or any of that other horrible stuff California and Hawaii have.

Again, for all the stuff I love about Oklahoma, I can't ignore how far we have to go.

Sorry I intruded on your questionable reasons to celebrate party. Carry on. I'll butt out now. Have fun.

I just thought it was an interesting article and didn't put NEAR the thought you did when you read it. I assumed the lower debt was primarily because housing is lower. I didn't see any type of moral question involved and it never occurred to me to celebrate.

It was news, but good news? If you consider low income and poverty a positive then we rock!

I wasn't characterizing anything as smug and superior other than Oklahomans' odd tendency to feel smug and superior about what some folks like me think of as negative.

I think we're still in the top 5 for infant mortality, illiteracy, cancer, obesity, smoking, heart disease, teen pregnancy, VD, and all those other causes for celebration.

On top of all that great stuff, we don't have any of those educated people, liberals, oceans, beaches, tropical beauty or any of that other horrible stuff California and Hawaii have.

Again, for all the stuff I love about Oklahoma, I can't ignore how far we have to go.

Sorry I intruded on your questionable reasons to celebrate party. Carry on. I'll butt out now. Have fun.
*Edit*
You know what? Forget it. I'll just let you wallow in your negativity.

It was news, but good news? If you consider low income and poverty a positive then we rock!

I wasn't characterizing anything as smug and superior other than Oklahomans' odd tendency to feel smug and superior about what some folks like me think of as negative.

I think we're still in the top 5 for infant mortality, illiteracy, cancer, obesity, smoking, heart disease, teen pregnancy, VD, and all those other causes for celebration.

On top of all that great stuff, we don't have any of those educated people, liberals, oceans, beaches, tropical beauty or any of that other horrible stuff California and Hawaii have.

Again, for all the stuff I love about Oklahoma, I can't ignore how far we have to go.

Sorry I intruded on your questionable reasons to celebrate party. Carry on. I'll butt out now. Have fun.

You must be so miserable, poor EO has to wake up every morning and realize that he's still in OK, why you don't move and get out of this hell hole is beyond me.

Moving past the direct attacks, I can attempt to see what EO was talking about. Yes low debt on the surface looks like good news, but it could also be related to other factors that could be more negative that otherwise hold it down. Also numbers for states with high debt could have positive factors that make it higher. Then of course you could find the reverse to be true for both based on another set of data.

Either way, we still have more work to do to get better overall - but what state doesn't right now? This is just another part of a bigger picture of the health of our state.

You must be so miserable, poor EO has to wake up every morning and realize that he's still in OK, why you don't move and get out of this hell hole is beyond me.

Coming from a guy who would rather not see business come to OKC so he could visit the Dallas area to spend his money. Speaking of moving, why don't you move to Dallas?

Moving past the direct attacks, I can attempt to see what EO was talking about. Yes low debt on the surface looks like good news, but it could also be related to other factors that could be more negative that otherwise hold it down. Also numbers for states with high debt could have positive factors that make it higher. Then of course you could find the reverse to be true for both based on another set of data.

Either way, we still have more work to do to get better overall - but what state doesn't right now? This is just another part of a bigger picture of the health of our state.

I think we all get that and it would be a legitimate and pertinent observation. The surprising part was the comment about moral superiority - kind of out of left field as if he just wanted to be insulting.

http://stage.nodiamonds.com/eabas/collegebaseballtoday/files/2009/06/asu-dogpile.jpg

Typical.

DE to the rescue.

ugh... can we get back to topic people? -M

Coming from a guy who would rather not see business come to OKC so he could visit the Dallas area to spend his money. Speaking of moving, why don't you move to Dallas?

Too much traffic to put up with on a daily basis, besides, I love living at Lake Tenkiller. Any more questions?

Here's a question:

What tangible, quantifiable things do we have along with our breathren in WV, AR, MS, & LA which are desirable quality of life indicators?
College Football doesn't count.

I didn't reference anybody specifically so there's no personal attack coming from me. If anybody took it personally, then perhaps there is a sore spot I hit by interrupting a "let us know look at the morally superior Okies." While I would definately agree that no place on earth is without flaw, Oklahoma has more needs for improvement than most.

While the pulling guard was busy attacking me personally, nobody seemed to bother considering my question about what Oklahoma does better.

I have one which is a good news/bad news thing. Our cost of living is lower even after factoring in income differences. The dollar does actually go about 6% farther--last cost of living estimate I read--than the Average. High income areas tend to have about the inverse effect. However, that 6% difference is generally exceeded by the difference in income far above 6%. These are averages so figuring out what they really mean isn't easy or obvious.

We have lots of undeveloped land. I like how no matter where you are, you can get to nowhere pretty fast. I like being able to drive into "the country" in no more than 10-15 minutes from the most populated areas. This is cool.

I can find quantifiable QOL advantages of Oklahoma.

Can anybody else?