Let's face it - parking garage spaces are expensive. Figure the square footage of both the parking space and the access, you're looking at $30-40,000 to provide parking for one person's personal vehicle. That doesn't even consider the cost of the interstates and streets to allow that vehicle to get from the owner's driveway to the parking garage. But in a city that simply refuses to make a significant investment in commuter rail, that's the tax that's forced on everyone. There's a significant segment of the population that just has no desire to come downtown if their only means of doing so is driving their car and parking it. It's much easier to drive to the local Wal-Mart and park for free.

But the reality is that, for downtown Oklahoma City to continue to grow, there has to be a better way to get people into and out of downtown. High population density simply does not coexist with an additional $30-40,000 cost of providing a parking space for each downtown resident - in addition to comparable spaces for visitors/shoppers/guests. In a metropolitan area where it's much less expensive to buy raw land on the edge of the metro and build, what's the incentive to move downtown? The only thing the city can do is spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build infrastructure in the hopes of luring people to a downtown park, near the Thunder, near Bricktown, near the Olympic rowing venue - near something they like enough to tip that decision.

The city really needs to get serious about commuter rail. I'm much more likely to come downtown if I can get where I want to go - a Thunder game, the courthouse, the civic center, etc. - and back at a nominal cost without having to drag my vehicle along with me.

Agree 100%. Until I can move downtown, commuter rail is one thing that would get me down there more often.

Good news for parking in the AA and Midtown area. Also good new for the Hotel Marion building.


http://newsok.com/garage-is-proposed-for-oklahoma-citys-midtown-and-automobile-alley/article/3693311?custom_click=pod_headline_financial-news

I would agree CaptDave, but how do you make it work in a city so spread out like ours, with such little density? The problem has been, and for the foreseeable future, will continue to be that lack of density. It means you have to spend more on getting the lines out further, so your cost-per-rider goes up. You either have to eat that cost, or pass it on to the rider.

Like any other commuter line, you'll have to provide parking at the station for the person that's riding. In situations like that, you HAVE to make the ride on the train faster, more convenient, and at least as cheap as it would be to take you take your own car in. Again, given our density, that simply won't happen today. Given that you can get from driveway to parking spot in <30 pretty much no matter where in the city you go defeats it...today. With rail, there will be multiple stops, probably a train change, and because it's a static line you will have a limited number of places that are within the average person's walking limit. Remember if it's not < 1/4 mile from the station, people aren't going to use it...and that's probably giving them more credit than they deserve.

So parking is an aspect of all things. It is directly connected to commuter rail. Take something like the D.C. lines as a good example of how to do it right. BUT, there are a LOT more people in the same amount of space. That density is what does it for you. Take a look at their map http://www.wmata.com/rail/docs/colormap_lettersize.pdf? No you find me a way to make OKC work in a similar fashion, and i'll be on board and will say screws to downtown parking alltogether. You've got transfer stations, multimodal, continued growth....

Good news for parking in the AA and Midtown area. Also good new for the Hotel Marion building.


http://newsok.com/garage-is-proposed-for-oklahoma-citys-midtown-and-automobile-alley/article/3693311?custom_click=pod_headline_financial-news

Holy crap - how did that sneak by us with no comments? That is huge news. It must be being discussed in another thread.

I asked the question over in the article but what is a "forgivable loan"? Does that mean we are just giving away $2 million???

I asked the question over in the article but what is a "forgivable loan"? Does that mean we are just giving away $2 million???

Probably more like $3.00 a person...lol

I asked the question over in the article but what is a "forgivable loan"? Does that mean we are just giving away $2 million???

Not exactly. That would be a gift. Think of it as a conditional gift, with a few strings attached. If you do the appropriate tightrope walk along the strings, then the loan will be forgiven. Sometimes that happens in stages, sometimes at the end.

oh like the Dell deal, where the City forgave the loan even though they didn't quite live up to the promises...

oh like the Dell deal, where the City forgave the loan even though they didn't quite live up to the promises...

Your optimism knows no bounds. :)

Your optimism knows no bounds. :)

*Like

Very optimistic that the same thing will happen...especially when they say it upfront...LOL

Ove rthe years, they supposedly have put safeguards in place, then don't enforce the safeguards.

The new meters are in, and I went downtown today for the first time. I couldn't understand how they work, was unable to insert change, was ticketed ($15.00), and then couldn't even find a meter reader to explain them to me. Shouldn't a parking meter be as simple as a Coke machine? 1) Insert change or a credit/debit card. 2) Receive ticket. 3) Place ticket on windshield. Couldn't get past step 1.

I inserted four quarters, pressed the green button marked "Print Receipt" and the display said "Insufficient Amount." I pressed the red button marked "Cancel." In the coin return was $1.50 (I'm obviously not the only one having problems with the meters). When I attempted to insert change a second time, the coin slot was blocked.

I won't fight this in court and I won't write a letter to Cornett, Couch or council, but I'll say here that they're not intuitive. Downtown merchants will be the ones that suffer.

If Coke made their machines this difficult to use, they would have gone out of business years ago.

Worked fine for me. Push the center button to go up in increments of time then put your receipt on your dash.

OKCtalker: I agree that fighting it in court would probably be a waste of time and money because you are probably going to lose, just easier to pay the fine rather than go thru the hassle of taking off work etc. Also, this is probably not a matter for the Mayor or Council (at this stage), I would suggest maybe talking/emailing whomever it is in the City that is responsible with the meters on a daily basis. Explain it to them. Then if you don't get an appropriate resolution, then take it on up the ladder.

The new meters are in, and I went downtown today for the first time. I couldn't understand how they work, was unable to insert change, was ticketed ($15.00), and then couldn't even find a meter reader to explain them to me. Shouldn't a parking meter be as simple as a Coke machine? 1) Insert change or a credit/debit card. 2) Receive ticket. 3) Place ticket on windshield. Couldn't get past step 1.

I inserted four quarters, pressed the green button marked "Print Receipt" and the display said "Insufficient Amount." I pressed the red button marked "Cancel." In the coin return was $1.50 (I'm obviously not the only one having problems with the meters). When I attempted to insert change a second time, the coin slot was blocked.

I won't fight this in court and I won't write a letter to Cornett, Couch or council, but I'll say here that they're not intuitive. Downtown merchants will be the ones that suffer.

If Coke made their machines this difficult to use, they would have gone out of business years ago.

I agree. I used one about a week ago. There were NO instructions, not even on the machine. Had I not been so familiar with downtown and knowing these were coming, I'd definitely had missed it and be clueless. Another blunder at the city. I also noticed they have new smart cars to patrol the meters. Guess they have to pay for those new smart cars somehow (increased traffic parking tickets due to lack of instruction or promotion).

I agree. I used one about a week ago. There were NO instructions, not even on the machine. Had I not been so familiar with downtown and knowing these were coming, I'd definitely had missed it and be clueless. Another blunder at the city. I also noticed they have new smart cars to patrol the meters. Guess they have to pay for those new smart cars somehow (increased traffic parking tickets due to lack of instruction or promotion).

They said the increase was largely to offset the credit card transactions fees, which the minimum charges do cover most of the change, though it seems like that should not also be passed on to the people paying with coins

I agree. I used one about a week ago. There were NO instructions, not even on the machine. Had I not been so familiar with downtown and knowing these were coming, I'd definitely had missed it and be clueless. Another blunder at the city. I also noticed they have new smart cars to patrol the meters. Guess they have to pay for those new smart cars somehow (increased traffic parking tickets due to lack of instruction or promotion).

Woah easy there. I think you downgrade legitimate concern over actual issues when you try and manufacture a controversy where there is none just to serve your own ego. To criticize the city for any little thing, especially when there is no evidence of foul play, is reckless and irresponsible to people fighting for significant progress on the actual urban issues.

It's like complaining loudly about parking in Bricktown. Come off it. The new smart meters are a breeze to use, I personally much prefer this to the traditional meters, as someone who uses street parking a lot.

Plans proceed for new downtown Oklahoma City parking garage
By Steve Lackmeyer | Published: August 16, 2012

Plans will proceed for a 750-space downtown garage south of city hall that will include 20,000-square feet of street-level retail and multiple floors on top for housing.


Read more: http://newsok.com/plans-proceed-for-new-downtown-oklahoma-city-parking-garage/article/3701198#ixzz23i8Hiqvf

I had issues with a meter downtown not taking my debit card. Got a ticket. Called the number on the ticket to report a faulty meter. They sent someone to check it. It was faulty. Ticket forgiven.

Plans proceed for new downtown Oklahoma City parking garage
By Steve Lackmeyer | Published: August 16, 2012

Plans will proceed for a 750-space downtown garage south of city hall that will include 20,000-square feet of street-level retail and multiple floors on top for housing.


Read more: http://newsok.com/plans-proceed-for-new-downtown-oklahoma-city-parking-garage/article/3701198#ixzz23i8Hiqvf

What would be the height of a building to meet these specifications? Especially with the multiple floors for housing.

One floor for retail, then I would guess 6-8 for parking then perhaps 3-4 for housing.

Perhaps about 12 levels all together?


The Hightower building due east is 10 floors.

Nice addition and infill.

Great urban mixed-use project for downtown, let's hope its done right, this could be a model for future mixed use projects for downtown. This is basically knocking out 3 birds with one stone. Hoping for first level retail, 7 levels for parking, and 5 levels for housing, putting it at 13 levels. I wonder if they have room for some office?

Once again, I moved several off-topic posts to here:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=24698&page=15

Woah easy there. I think you downgrade legitimate concern over actual issues when you try and manufacture a controversy where there is none just to serve your own ego. To criticize the city for any little thing, especially when there is no evidence of foul play, is reckless and irresponsible to people fighting for significant progress on the actual urban issues.

It's like complaining loudly about parking in Bricktown. Come off it. The new smart meters are a breeze to use, I personally much prefer this to the traditional meters, as someone who uses street parking a lot.

Lol, this coming from the guy who criticizes everything and everybody, ala Sandridge. Apparently I'm not the only one who felt that way as I was echoing a previous posters experience.

Metro, you're delirious. You were against SR as well. And I don't understand what that could possibly have to do with this thread, besides you're obsession with me.


Great urban mixed-use project for downtown, let's hope its done right, this could be a model for future mixed use projects for downtown. This is basically knocking out 3 birds with one stone. Hoping for first level retail, 7 levels for parking, and 5 levels for housing, putting it at 13 levels. I wonder if they have room for some office?

I really think the city ought to consider a new office building and prepare to sell the 420 Bldg to Preftakes. The 420 Bldg would be so much better as housing... this new development will be adjacent to the grey/blue city building.

Recent report by COPTA showing how dire downtown parking has become.

They actually way over sell available spaces; every garage is 100% or higher.

And note the sole garage "only" at 100% is Sheridan/Walker, and this is before the new downtown elementary school has even opened.


Besides the new Main Street Garage and expansion of the Century Center, I sure hope they are getting busy lining up more projects because downtown growth is already being constrained.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownparking9413.jpg

Yet, COPTA loses money every year.

COPTA loses money but they also are responsible for the bus system. I would guess the parking garages make money. I am not sure about that though.

If a RTA is ever developed, will OKC Parking get absorbed into that? Will COPTA go away? What does the best possible big picture look like if we EVER get an RTA going?

If a RTA is ever developed, will OKC Parking get absorbed into that? Will COPTA go away? What does the best possible big picture look like if we EVER get an RTA going?

i would bet the the bus/transit park of copta goes to the RTA and copta becomes just a parking authority

From the chat today:

Gary T - 10:25 a.m. With parking garages at more than 100% of capicity, what is the city/COPTA doing (besides the obvious building of the new parking garage on Main street) to make this better? I would be willing to bet with the building of the Mystery Tower, there will be a parking garage attached, but what about the new businesses that move downtown with no where to park? Could this be a hinderance to future development?

Steve Lackmeyer - 10:31 a.m. The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority and City Hall are all scrambling to figure out an answer. Don Karchmer is still trying to figure out how to build a garage on Main Street in Bricktown that would connect to The Underground and yet might somehow address concerns of rail transit advocates who believe the city will someday have a shot at high speed rail which would need a track on that same property. Yes, this capacity issue is already a problem and it's getting worse.

And this was pretty shocking to me:

Gary T - 11:06 a.m. Is the city doing anything to get the owners of parking lots to develop them in DT/BT/Midtown as far as the threat of increasing taxes or something of that nature?

Steve Lackmeyer - 11:06 a.m. Actually, the renewed Business Improvement District ordinance approved a couple of years ago incentivizes surface parking lot owners not to seek denser development.

Steve Lackmeyer - 11:07 a.m. It's cheaper in the BID to own a surface parking lot than to have a building on the same property.

From the chat today:

Gary T - 10:25 a.m. With parking garages at more than 100% of capicity, what is the city/COPTA doing (besides the obvious building of the new parking garage on Main street) to make this better? I would be willing to bet with the building of the Mystery Tower, there will be a parking garage attached, but what about the new businesses that move downtown with no where to park? Could this be a hinderance to future development?

Steve Lackmeyer - 10:31 a.m. The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority and City Hall are all scrambling to figure out an answer. Don Karchmer is still trying to figure out how to build a garage on Main Street in Bricktown that would connect to The Underground and yet might somehow address concerns of rail transit advocates who believe the city will someday have a shot at high speed rail which would need a track on that same property. Yes, this capacity issue is already a problem and it's getting worse.

Steve....not "high speed rail". Commuter rail to Midwest City, Tinker AFB, and the NE part of Oklahoma City and the Adventure District would use that spur. I imagine regular train service to Tulsa would also use that. Not some pie in the sky dream high speed rail which may or may not ever happen.

Steve's update on the downtown parking situation.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5124647?embargo=1


Mark Beffort, perhaps the most respected and influential player in the downtown office market, is looking forward to some relief in the parking shortage as 1,800 new spaces open up from the Arts District to Midtown.



“If you were to have talked to me this time last year, all of us in the real estate business downtown were a bit stressed about parking,” Beffort said. “Now, where we sit today, we’re all breathing a bit easier. But we still have tremendous pressure as more and more people look to move their offices downtown in addition to the residential activity we are seeing.”

Steve's update on the downtown parking situation.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5124647?embargo=1


Mark Beffort, perhaps the most respected and influential player in the downtown office market, is looking forward to some relief in the parking shortage as 1,800 new spaces open up from the Arts District to Midtown.



“If you were to have talked to me this time last year, all of us in the real estate business downtown were a bit stressed about parking,” Beffort said. “Now, where we sit today, we’re all breathing a bit easier. But we still have tremendous pressure as more and more people look to move their offices downtown in addition to the residential activity we are seeing.”

I sincerely doubt that the additional residential activity is going to lead to a need for more parking spaces. Initially, maybe yes, especially before the street car is in, but in 5 years, I think the residential activity will be a net help on the parking situation.

I sincerely doubt that the additional residential activity is going to lead to a need for more parking spaces. Initially, maybe yes, especially before the street car is in, but in 5 years, I think the residential activity will be a net help on the parking situation.

I think the comment was more in regard to the short term situation and that makes it fairly accurate.

But even that…It's hard for me to see another time period where the additional residential activity will bring in extraneous vehicles except for after work hours when non-downtown people are visiting friends. Construction workers, maybe?

Retail / restaurants / bars have much bigger impact on parking than residents.

Imagine when Fassler Hall & Dust Bowl opens, along with Bleu Garten, Broadway 10 and everything else that is happening along 10th.

And we are getting to the point in Deep Deuce where we have a real critical mass of bars and restaurants with at least a couple more to come, and at the same time most the vacant lots are being developed.

But there are a few residential projects that use existing structured parking: Park Harvey and The Montgomery leap to mind. But I'm not aware of any of the residential projects underway or planned that aren't providing their own parking.

One of the things not mentioned in that article is that the Oklahoman moving into the Century Center will displace hundreds of current parkers there, as they negotiated a deal that guaranteed them spots when the garage was already full.

And even though Crowe & Dunlevy are moving to the SandRidge garage, Continental will fill the space they are vacating instantly and also take the same number of spaces at Santa Fe.

I appreciate Beffort's efforts in getting downtown office space leased, but why hasn't he pursued any parking garage construction of his own other than the expansion of the City Center East Garage? If it is effecting his ability to lease office space, why hasn't he grouped together with other investors to construct his own garage instead of relying on the city-funded arts district garage?

One of the things not mentioned in that article is that the Oklahoman moving into the Century Center will displace hundreds of current parkers there, as they negotiated a deal that guaranteed them spots when the garage was already full.

And even though Crowe & Dunlevy are moving to the SandRidge garage, Continental will fill the space they are vacating instantly and also take the same number of spaces at Santa Fe.

When the deal was signed, it provided The Oklahoman with about half of the spaces needed - spaces that were being moved to the new garage space, and the other half of the spaces were to be remote parking south of the Myriad Gardens. With the pending departure of the IRS and other federal agencies from the building across the street and shift of Crowe Dunlevy to the Broadway Kerr garage, I do not know if the remote spaces will still be necessary or not. The Karchmer garage, as I understand it, will include spaces for Continental's growing workforce.

The IRS will not be gone before the Oklahoman and other tenants move into the Century Center. The IRS hasn't even found a new location, let alone negotiated, had the space built-out etc. I know this first hand. And anyway, their space will be immediately snapped up so there won't be any change in parking demand.

I wonder if SandRidge has any more capacity in their garage after Crow & Dunlevy move in? Otherwise, I don't know were tenants at the Parkside are going to park.

If you take into consideration all the garages under construction vs. all the office space soon to be filled (like Dowell Center and First National) there is still going to be a net increase in parking demand vs. supply.

Plus, we've got the convention center parking completely unresolved.

The IRS will not be gone before the Oklahoman and other tenants move into the Century Center. The IRS hasn't even found a new location, let alone negotiated, had the space built-out etc. I know this first hand. And anyway, their space will be immediately snapped up so there won't be any change in parking demand.

I wonder if SandRidge has any more capacity in their garage after Crow & Dunlevy move in? Otherwise, I don't know were tenants at the Parkside are going to park.

If you take into consideration all the garages under construction vs. all the office space soon to be filled (like Dowell Center and First National) there is still going to be a net increase in parking demand vs. supply.

Plus, we've got the convention center parking completely unresolved.

Pete, I'm just providing what I know - that The Oklahoman was and may still be having to park a significant number of its employees south of the Myriad Gardens until the extra garage space is finished and spaces are shifted around. I'm not looking to get into a debate with you.

^

Didn't mean to debate at all -- sorry if it came across that way.

Just providing info. at my disposal.

^

Didn't mean to debate at all -- sorry if it came across that way.

Just providing info. at my disposal.

Nor am I wishing to get into a debate. I just wanted to clarify that The Oklahoman was not getting to park all of its employees at Century Center until spaces were made available through the relocation of people from other buildings to the expanded City Center garage and new Arts District garage. Your original post indicated I had left out of my story that hundreds were being displaced to make way for Oklahoman employees so they could all park at Century Center garage.
I understand there is a lot of confusion out there, so I went ahead and posted what I know.

Retail / restaurants / bars have much bigger impact on parking than residents.

Imagine when Fassler Hall & Dust Bowl opens, along with Bleu Garten, Broadway 10 and everything else that is happening along 10th.

And we are getting to the point in Deep Deuce where we have a real critical mass of bars and restaurants with at least a couple more to come, and at the same time most the vacant lots are being developed.

But there are a few residential projects that use existing structured parking: Park Harvey and The Montgomery leap to mind. But I'm not aware of any of the residential projects underway or planned that aren't providing their own parking.

But isn't the vast majority of the Retail/Restaurant/Bar inflow going to happen after most of the DT workforce has already vacated?

To be honest, I doubt downtown is ever going to have TOO much parking. I just wonder that if we overstate the immediate need of something, whether or not we might hastily build out infrastructure that is not essential at the cost of something that could immediately be far more beneficial than making parking easier.

I really don't know all the parking garages in the CBD, which is clearly the main concern…I don't think we should yet be too terribly worried about parking in the other districts until we have a better grasp of how the new housing/mixed-use developments affects the situation. I think in the CBD there are like 10 garages with a total capacity upward of 7500. I think a push toward 10,000 would be good.

I'd really really really like to see the city push for a rather massive garage in West Bricktown, in addition to the Kachmer. I'd like to see a push for a 1,500 to 2,500 space garage for the SW corner of Reno and Oklahoma. That's essentially right by the transit station, would aid in the retooling of Lower Bricktown, and most importantly, would free up the need to rebuild massive amounts of parking when we redo the Cox site (Would love to see the parking on that super block at least halved if not completely gone).

I'd guess it'd be about 10 to 15 stories…put residential on top of THAT building and it would sell like hot-cakes.

Parking was awful Saturday evening. The Michael Buble concert and the Redhawks game were both going on, and there wasn't a spot to be had anywhere. People were parking on the grass in Deep Deuce. As more things happen downtown on the same nights, we'll have this problem more and more. From one perspective, it's a good problem to have. But we need either more parking or we need to get mass transit operational soon.

Imagine if we had a concert, a Redhawks game, a big convention, and a Wolf Creek Lodge as well. We want the kind of city where our downtown is bustling with activity almost every night. We just don't have the transportation infrastructure to support everything right now. The Bass Pro parking lot should be turned into a giant garage. It's on the edge of Bricktown, and so would limit traffic that was coming through the district. People could come in and out from Lincoln and Reno to the east. They wouldn't have to drive through Bricktown and so they could get in and out faster. A garage on the SW corner of Reno and Oklahoma (right in front of the U-Haul building) could provide parking for downtown employees, but Bricktown visitors would be funnelled through a busier part of the city where people are frequently walking.

Ive always said the north and south lots at bass pro should be converted into retail, parking garage, and maybe housing on top. but keep the stream/river flowing through it. or just extend the canal. if done right could be nice.

I made the mistake of saying.. Oh lets go eat in bricktown Sat night. well I quickly retreated.. the parking was horrible people were even parking south of Harkins in the dirt where old I40 once was. there were 3 lines of parking in that grassy/Dirt area. considering Michael Buble was a small concert only using 1/2 the arena and sold right at 8 thousand tickets so it could have been even worse.

You forgot about Reggae Fest.

Also I noticed Sunday night (during the free park concert) people took to parallel parking along Sheridan even though there are no parking signs...

It will get worse before it gets better since the East Crosstown is coming along and that grassy area on private property/ROW won't continue to exist for parking purposes before there is an alternative...

Saturday was a night I was particularly glad to have walked to Bricktown from home...

It's kind of a long Walk from Crestwood. but I said to my partner.. SEE This is where a streetcar into Bricktown would help out!

I ate up at Vast on Saturday night and it looked like a parking nightmare from up there. but it was cool to see bricktown and downtown packed full of people

The walk is long, but the biking is not...

I went to Redhawks game on Saturday. I parked on the street over by La Luna. Wasn't bad at all of you don't mind walking (I don't)

I went to Redhawks game on Saturday. I parked on the street over by La Luna. Wasn't bad at all of you don't mind walking (I don't)


This. There is parking available on the skirts of activity. It is the inconvenience factor that is the issue. People want to walk a block or less. Only way to break this greedy mindset is to have nights like Saturday.

Sometimes the only way to show people the problem.... is to hand them a mirror.

Agree, catch, was referring to the walk from Crestwood though... my walk and/or ride to anywhere downtown is always pleasant and manageable.

Yeah, I hope that a handful of nights, or even a few months worth of nights are not going to spring us into trying to build parking we only rarely get use out of.

The worst way to use land in the history of the world has been to give adequate parking such that the only time it is at 100%+ occupancy is 5 days for christmas shopping. Ever counted how many spaces are at the average Walgreens and CVS and thought "Why the hell are there 35 spaces for this building?"

The street car will legitimately alleviate some of those issues, but more so than that, We can't be building things downtown that will be fully utilized a handful of days out of the year. That's why massive garage in West Bricktown make more sense than anything: It can serve the CBD during the day and Bricktown at night.

Especially, people need to learn that it's okay to park a bit of a ways away and walk 5 to 10 blocks.

I disagree Teo. People need to not just know it's okay, but that it is expected of them to participate in the street life.

If you want to go downtown, be prepared for the fact that you will walk 5-10 blocks. Of you score a closer spot. Win. But don't go with the expectation.

I usually park in the same area (Film Row area) and usually can walk to Bricktown faster than someone circling a parking lot in Lower Bricktown for 10 minutes. Plus I get to see a lot of cool things and pretty people on the walk over.