I'm going to jump in here and ignore the string of ad hominems in the last few posts. I have a very good feeling about the NW 10th and Robinson site, perhaps the best site, but that's the one that I've mostly been thinking over at this point.

Any other thoughts on that?

As a neighbor in the Mason Bldg, we're at raking capacity. 10th/Broadway can't be developed the way the would like to due to the parking issue.

It might go a long way to enabling further development in the area and along 9th. Streetcar "Park N' Ride" would definitely be possible.

If it were the Bricktown site, perhaps it could be integrated into our transit hub monies/planning.

I would think that doing the transit hub parking garage NOW with this opportunity would be a way of getting to that sooner than expected (or easier than expected).

Lauri, as for who would park in it, I think there are way more offices in Mid-town than we realize. Not to mention restaurants and a budding retail scene. These tenants can't afford to secure parking of their own, except for the heavy hitters like Plaza Court--if we had a public parking solution for Mid-town then developers could develop without having to worry about parking, which right now is a major concern in Mid-town (ie., as Jeff says is hindering the development at a few major intersections). I think it would also have the park-n-ride deal too.

I would think that doing the transit hub parking garage NOW with this opportunity would be a way of getting to that sooner than expected (or easier than expected).

Lauri, as for who would park in it, I think there are way more offices in Mid-town than we realize. Not to mention restaurants and a budding retail scene. These tenants can't afford to secure parking of their own, except for the heavy hitters like Plaza Court--if we had a public parking solution for Mid-town then developers could develop without having to worry about parking, which right now is a major concern in Mid-town (ie., as Jeff says is hindering the development at a few major intersections). I think it would also have the park-n-ride deal too.

I see where you're coming from, Spartan. I guess my tunnel vision regarding CBD frustrations interfered. I rarely go to Mid-Town, but that is partly because of lack of parking options. When we go that way for lunch we take the early shift at 11 AM, where there is no lack of parking!

My office looks out on this lot and I hope it is not chosen for selfish reasons. Right now I am watching the renovations on the Packard building, the Cline and Frontline Church. I don't think I would like to see a multi story parking garage as my main view every day.

My office looks out on this lot and I hope it is not chosen for selfish reasons. Right now I am watching the renovations on the Packard building, the Cline and Frontline Church. I don't think I would like to see a multi story parking garage as my main view every day.

I can understand that. I used to be able to see the Myriad Gardens before this monstrous tower was built. ;)

With the city selling off their parking garages to private companies I do think that parking in downtown proper, not midtown, not AA not Bricktown but downtown is what they need to be looking at. They wouldn't be in such a bind if they hadn't sold off so much parking to private companies.

Yes, if they are going to continue selling public garages for private use then there seems to be a responsibility to replace them.

And in turn, this process seems to be working: 1) build a garage with public money; 2) makes easier for everyone downtown, including new employers; 3) sell when someone is large enough to need if for their own use; 4) repeat.

Parking is always the biggest issue of anyone looking to locate downtown, so the more your can minimize it the more successful we'll be in getting companies to move/grow there.

My office looks out on this lot and I hope it is not chosen for selfish reasons. Right now I am watching the renovations on the Packard building, the Cline and Frontline Church. I don't think I would like to see a multi story parking garage as my main view every day.

That's why any of these garages should be "wrapped" in some other use. Right now that site is a giant surface parking lot. To me, that is of no aesthetic improvement. Particularly when nary a tree exists either.

Jeff, do you think 10th and Robinson stands a chance to be picked over Bricktown, or a site that could accomplish the coveted goal of tearing down buildings?

Here are the various sites the city are kicking around:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtparking1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite1a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite4.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite6.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite7.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite8.jpg

What do they mean by "future development" in that first picture?

They just mean empty space to be filled.

Nothing we didn't already know about a long time ago.

Is downtown site 3 a new superblock? or do the arrows going north through it mean traffic will still flow on Lee?

Is downtown site 3 a new superblock? or do the arrows going north through it mean traffic will still flow on Lee?

Lee would be closed... The arrows just depict garage ingress/egress.

Lee would be closed... The arrows just depict garage ingress/egress.

It looks like the floor plan seems to indicate a tunnel.

This one gets the JTF 5-star rating for location. It provides parking for people doing business with the City, will provide foot traffic for nearby businesses, parking for Civic Center events, will be on the streetcar line, and does not create a superblock.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dtsite1a.jpg

The placement of the three possible garages on the west side of the CBD is a further indication that something big is going to happen on the Preftakes block.

I think the 4th and Broadway site is probably big enough to incorporate a large parking structure.

The placement of the three possible garages on the west side of the CBD is a further indication that something big is going to happen on the Preftakes block.

Those would also serve the new convention center on it's proposed site.

Word has it the City Hall and the old YMCA site (5th/Robinson) are at the top of the list to start.

I like the City Hall site. A lot.

The 10th and robinson site needs to be at the SW corner as that is vacant.

I am not a big fan of putting a parking garage on a corner. They should be mid-block.

What's the projected vertical on the DT site 1? Would it be in keeping with other heights in the vicinity or would there be more height involved.

Ar 86 spaces per floor I am guessing it would be 8 to 10 floors. If the Preftakes property across the street is factored in it could to twice that height. I could see it being as tall as the Hightower building and the City building.

I believe that site needs some great development obviously, I just don't think we need a parking garage towering over the last remnants of our historic Main Street storefronts, WHICH Preftakes is going to have some headaches if he wants to tear them down.

If Preftakes is going to build a tower in its place you are going to have one lonely fight.

http://newsok.com/no-vacancy-at-downtown-oklahoma-city-garages-thunder-suite-holders-face-uncertain-parking-future/article/3653016

I'm hoping this doesn't occur and we can plan for a better use of this space.


The Century Center Garage at Robinson and Sheridan avenues may offer the most immediate opportunity for expansion. Holtzclaw said engineers are looking at adding two stories to the public garage, a move that would provide an additional 350 spaces, but work couldn't begin for months.

If the City Hall garage is 500 spaces then that would make it 7 stories assuming there is no parking on the ground floor.

The City hall site is by far the best option. Many of the other sites wouldn't really alleviate problem because they are too far out from the current source. Not surprising that the city hall site is the best, since the city thought that it made sense to build up the city west garage (before they thought it made sense to sell it at a loss). People visiting City Hall, the library, the county courthouse, county offices, the museum and many other locations would benefit greatly from that location.

500 spaces at the City Hall site is not very many and that is still at least 1.5 years out.

Why not turn the future convention center land into surface lots for the time being?

... Why not turn the future convention center land into surface lots for the time being?

Or even longer. Kind of sad there's even a problem. Given all the delays in completing the new 40, and knowing all along the spaces under the now old 40 would have to yeild to demo and the new blvd., seems like substitute parking could have been arranged well in advance of any hurry up oh no whut to do now mode having any chance of setting in. Shame on them.

or even longer. Kind of sad there's even a problem. Given all the delays in completing the new 40, and knowing all along the spaces under the now old 40 would have to yeild to demo and the new blvd., seems like substitute parking could have been arranged well in advance of any hurry up oh no whut to do now mode having any chance of setting in. Shame on them.
amen!

Plus, the City sold the Broadway/Kerr garage to SandRidge just recently, fully aware of this problem.

I'm all for what SandRidge is doing but they have also demolished a bunch of parking around their tower, are in the process of demolishing a bunch more in the old Globe Life structure and already own several surface lots near their campus. So now we can't bring in more businesses because they chose to tear down parking they already had and don't want to develop their surface lots?

I'm sure part of the strategy is to create this capacity problem so it's easier to use eminent domain to gain control of key properties.

I s this a common problem in other cities or is this just pOOOOOOOOOOr planning?

I s this a common problem in other cities or is this just pOOOOOOOOOOr planning?

I wouldn't say that its been all POOR planning.. They City knew we were getting the NBA team in 2008. They knew Devon was building a tower in 2009, and believe it or not they knew about Continental in advance, but its just hard to get things moving including funding and putting out bids for city projects.

Also I was told by someone in the "know" that its going to cost in the range of $20,000 PER space added to make new floors in the Century Center garage, thus basically making it too expensive to expand that structure.

The City hall site is by far the best option. Many of the other sites wouldn't really alleviate problem because they are too far out from the current source. Not surprising that the city hall site is the best, since the city thought that it made sense to build up the city west garage (before they thought it made sense to sell it at a loss). People visiting City Hall, the library, the county courthouse, county offices, the museum and many other locations would benefit greatly from that location.

However, if a new skyscraper is built across the street, this garage will be filled up pretty quickly, unle:ss the occupant of new skyscraper builds their own on Preftakes site.

The City is really dragging their feet on public projects like Project 90, parking, and railroad quiet zone, that is hindering future private development.

Any new skyscraper will build their own parking - just like Devon did by adding floors to the garage they bought. Also, the city doesn't own the Ford site yet and I think the price just went up. I for one don't want anyone building a surface parking lot - especially the City. I don't care if it is temporary or not.

The CC site doesn't need to have a surface lot built... It was a car dealership and has tons of paved areas for cars.

Seems silly for it to sit empty directly across from the arena where there is a specific, immediate need.

The lot immediately west of the CHK Arena was bulldozed. So it would need to be repaved.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/arenaparking.jpg

Ah, shows how much I park my car there. Lol.

I s this a common problem in other cities or is this just pOOOOOOOOOOr planning?

Most popular cities have this problem. But most of them also have transportation alternatives that mitigate the need for parking. The bigger problem is that parking is 100% required for access to downtown. As long as this is true, prime real estate will continue to be used for parking, making it harder to ultimately develop a dense, mixed use downtown that many want. They could build garages with street front retail to preserve downtown's appeal, but I would be SHOCKED if the city did that. I'm pretty sure it will all be stopgap airport style parking garages plopped onto prime spots.

All 3 lots west of the arena is full during the Thunder games, except for the closest one, which is 20 bucks, and it gets close to full. The next is $ 10 and the farthest is $5... and they fill up pretty fast.

century center parking garage .. can add 2 new garage levels and copta is discussing that from todays city council meeting

city owns the 2 basements floors .. private owner middle 2 (retail/office) city owns top 2 parking .. and has 40 feet of air rights..

I'll repeat what I previously posted in that the DowntownOKC Inc. people told a group of us that its going to cost in the range of $20,000 PER space added to make new floors in the Century Center garage, thus basically making it too expensive to expand that structure..

Unless something changed.. Then that's a really expensive expansion.

I'll repeat what I previously posted in that the DowntownOKC Inc. people told a group of us that its going to cost in the range of $20,000 PER space added to make new floors in the Century Center garage, thus basically making it too expensive to expand that structure..

Unless something changed.. Then that's a really expensive expansion.

brand new costs 12k per space or more

Here's what the final parking study being presented to City Council today says about the Century Center:


The scenarios that exist for the Century Center garage are to expand vertically, demolish and rebuild, and leave as is which speaks for itself. The feasibility of the vertical expansion requires the existing foundations to have been designed to accommodate vertical expansion. A structural analysis of the existing foundation plans can determine if the garage has the ability for additional parking levels. Typically, parking garages are not designed for future expansion as there are greater costs associated with this during construction.

Demolishing and rebuilding the garage is an option to increase supply in the dense downtown core; although this is typically not a feasible option once a financial analysis is performed. Demolishing and rebuild can add an additional 30%-50% increase to the total construction costs. The net gain of spaces is usually limited, which drives up the cost per space significantly. Additionally, with the physical connection to the hotel, increased costs may occur based upon requirements of the building code changes that were not present when it was originally constructed. This option is typically a last resort.

And here's the garage sites being recommended for consideration.

"Future Development" shown in purple also includes vacant space they expect to fill, such as the Century Center.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/parkinggarages41712.jpg

Am I reading correctly that they are proposing 9 new garages or just those are potential sites for garages (like 2 or 3 of them)?

Just potential sites over the long term. The study shows parking in the CBD is almost maxed.


You can also look at where the three downtown garages are proposed and draw your own conclusion about why we would need that many spaces in that particular area.

Here's what the final parking study being presented to City Council today says about the Century Center:

in the council presentation .. rick cain (copta) said that the structural analysis has been completed and that the garage can support 2 levels of expansion

OKC Council eyes downtown parking
By Brian Brus
Journal Record
Posted: 06:35 PM Tuesday, April 17, 2012

OKLAHOMA CITY – City officials are considering the possibility of adding two levels to the Century Center parking garage in light of the latest study that projects a shortage of parking space downtown soon.

However, not all council members agree that the Oklahoma City municipal government should be involved in the parking space business.

“I’m sorry if I missed the point somewhere along the line, but when did the City Council make a policy decision that we would provide parking downtown?” Councilman Pat Ryan asked at the weekly council meeting Tuesday. “I know we’ve done it in the past and we’ve had some success from an economic development standpoint. But I think that’s one of those areas that we should have reviewed, maybe, before we spent the money to decide whether we’re going to spend money to add two floors to this garage.”

Rick Cain, director of the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority Trust, said it is unlikely that the current downtown parking in the Midtown, Automobile Alley, Bricktown and business districts will continue to meet growing demand. Parking congestion is expected to increase as Oklahoma City continues to grow, attracting residents and tourists for events and attractions in the heart of the city. However, stakeholders do not currently see a parking shortage crisis, according to a study by Walker Parking Consultants commissioned by City Hall. The study cost about $58,000.

The Walker study looked at about 26,000 garage and open lot parking spaces bound generally by NW 13th Street, Centennial Expressway, Reno Avenue and Dewey Avenue. The overall off-street occupancy is currently about 60 percent, the study found, and on-street occupancy is about 50 percent.

Walker consultants adjusted expected parking demand to account for absorption of office and retail space in the downtown area, and assumed that 2 million square feet of space planned for the study area will be occupied in phases over the next 10 years.

At a medium growth rate of 6 percent, after five years the downtown area will just barely meet parking demand with 700 spaces left over, the study concluded; increased traffic or longer passage of time will lead to insufficiencies.

Consultants considered several alternatives to address core growth, with one site in particular catching their interest: the Century Center garage at 100 W. Main St. The garage has 800 spaces for public parking and is adjacent to the Sheraton Hotel, which currently owns two retail floors sandwiched in the garage’s middle levels.

The garage’s foundation will allow vertical expansion, Cain said. Refurbishing the space is preferable to demolishing and rebuilding at the same site, which can add 30 percent to 50 percent to the total project costs.

“Now it’s up to the board to make a determination as to whether it makes financial sense,” Cain told council members.

Ryan and others said the council should reconsider how much parking the government should shoulder. He said other cities require private ventures to take up some or all of that responsibility. If the primary justification for government involvement is economic development, then perhaps bond money might be available for the project, he said.

Council members for decades have zoned the downtown business district to allow for skyscrapers that dramatically increase population density in a relatively small area. Elsewhere in the city, street-level lots or curbside parking is generally sufficient to support zoned development; downtown is unique.

Council members also discussed the viability of developing parking space farther away from the business district, but agreed that the local culture makes that difficult because people are not accustomed to walking or taking a secondary form of transit to reach their destinations.

The bad thing about adding two more levels of parking at the Century Center is that it will make it much less likely to ever be demolished.

In other words, we'd likely be stuck with that place for a very long time.

But what if it is transformed into something you won't mind being stuck with?

To bring this garage up to urban standards they could do the following in addition to making it taller.

1) Expand the footprint so that it is adjacent to the sidewalk on three sides. This would allow for an extra row of parking on what would be 6 levels. That would be about 360 extra parking spaces.
2) Change the retail configuration so that individual stores open to the sidewalk and not into an interior walkway.
3) Add an exterior balcony around the whole complex for second floor retail and restaurant tenants.
4) Trim the building in LED lights.

But what if it is transformed into something you won't mind being stuck with?

That's hard to imagine but I hope it turns out to be the case.

To bring this garage up to urban standards they could do the following in addition to making it taller.

1) Expand the footprint so that it is adjacent to the sidewalk on three sides. This would allow for an extra row of parking on what would be 6 levels. That would be about 360 extra parking spaces.
2) Change the retail configuration so that individual stores open to the sidewalk and not into an interior walkway.
3) Add an exterior balcony around the whole complex for second floor retail and restaurant tenants.
4) Trim the building in LED lights.

All of that makes sense.. which is why it wont happen

Let me add a possible #5 - convert the 2nd floor retail space to apartments.