You are going to drive a 1.5 miles? You can walk it in 17 minutes, and that is if you take your time. Ride a bike and you can be there faster than you can drive and park.

Sounds nice, Kerry, but not always practical. Remember he is talking about Denver weather, not Jacksonville weather. And if I had to ride a bike or walk 1 1/2 miles each day before I went to work, I would need another shower and change of clothes after I got there no matter what the weather was. LOL

Sounds nice, Kerry, but not always practical. Remember he is talking about Denver weather, not Jacksonville weather. And if I had to ride a bike or walk 1 1/2 miles each day before I went to work, I would need another shower and change of clothes after I got there no matter what the weather was. LOL

Obviously there are times when walking would be inconvenient but driving to the 'park and ride' train station should be the last option. When I first started riding the bike a few months ago I would be pretty hot and sweaty after just a mile or so - not to mention tired. I now ride the bike as much as I can for daily errands and even after a 6 mile ride (to chick-fil-a of all places) I am neither tired nor sweaty. The Human body will adjust quickly and losing 25 pounds has made the riding even easier.

Walking a mile or two isn't practical or desirable for everybody and certainly not in the extreme weather we see here in OKC. And, those in their 50's and 60s are less likely to go work out to fit the ideal than someone younger. In more metropolitan and dense environments they usually either have good consistent bus, taxi and/or subway lines so people don't actually have to walk that far.

If I was wearing casual clothes and not carrying a larger laptop, then I would probably walk some, it definitely is better weather than six months of Austin summer to walk in. That area (I-225 & Parker Road) is not as pedestrian friendly as many other areas, it is a "Park-N-Ride" after all and not a TOD. Also my mailbox is about a half mile from there and I will swing by there on the way home and do other errands at that time. Better than the 40 mile daily commute across Downtown Austin that I have had the past 4 years. There is a large park and school a block away from the condo, I will go over to the track there and get my walking in (I try to average 3-4 miles 4 or 5 days a week) when I am dressed for it instead of slacks and dress shoes. They "dress up" a bit more there than they do here in Austin where jeans and a knit was my normal work day clothing...of course they don't have 90 days over 100 degree summers up there either.

As for the weather, they are expecting a half a foot of snow today, of course it was in the 80's when we were up there Sunday and Monday and will be gone by the time I get back up there on Sunday.


Sounds nice, Kerry, but not always practical. Remember he is talking about Denver weather, not Jacksonville weather. And if I had to ride a bike or walk 1 1/2 miles each day before I went to work, I would need another shower and change of clothes after I got there no matter what the weather was. LOL
Kind of the same for me, I am very hot natured and can work up a good sweat in 40 degree weather by just walking a good distance. I always have been even when I was in much better shape and was working outside, it has to do with thyroid issues that I have had since I was diagnosed with those at six years old. That is why the summers down here have just been miserable and getting out of the car even with A/C going full blast the back of my shirts are soaked is not exactly what I like when wearing a dress shirt and slacks. The Play-Dry type of knit shirts were great down here and what I wore most of the time.

Anyone can ride a bike in a suit.

http://dreamingbegins.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/suit1.jpg

http://thecandidadiaries.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/bike-to-work-in-a-suit.jpg

unless your...

http://blog.rounds.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/chicken-suit-bike.jpg

Anyone can ride a bike in a suit.
...but I don't care to do that.

My bicycle is here in Austin right now and hasn't been on the road for 10 years, it is a Cannondale road bike and I have thought of making it into a crossover type of bike but just haven't got around to it, not that I would ride it for commuting to work either. The motorcycle is up there now and my friend commutes on his most of the time (77,000 miles on it) but his job is in the DTC and not downtown. I am a "car guy", I like my cars and plan to add a pickup and a race car to my garage in the future but just feel that taking the light rail to work would be better than putting the miles on my car. I bought my 2003 BMW Z4 Roadster in 2009 with 45,000 miles on it, I already have 87,000 miles on it now and driving 40 miles a day really racked up the miles, I am looking to keep the miles off that and a 3-4 mile a day commute will help that. For me commuting on a bicycle is a non-starter completely. If you had to commute on it everyday for work in Jax instead of just running errands on it you might have a different opinion but I had co-workers here who did, especially in our old office building which did have showers, when we moved to The Domain they commuted on their bikes less because we didn't have the same facilities. My opinion is that if it works for someone that is great, it just isn't the thing for me.

In a year if we buy a place closer to downtown, I may revisit how I commute but for now I will drive or commute by rail depending upon if I need a car or not that day.

I had a friend in Atlanta that put one of those little electric motors on his bike. The first day he tried it he wrecked and came to work bloody. The second day his battery died half-way to work - and again half way home. On the third day he put the electric motor for sale on E-bay.

Granted, biking is not for everyone. I can kick myself for not trying biking earlier myself. For 2 years I worked 1.5 miles from the house and not once did I ride the bike. I used the same reasoning you did - I didn't want to sweat, what if it rained, it's too windy, I like my car, it's too humid, etc...

Now I put my bike (or rip-stick) in the back of the pickup and when I go to sprawling shopping centers I ride from store to store and to neighboring shopping centers. I am now a park-once person as much as I can be. I have a lockable basket/trailer on my Christmas Wish List.

Nice article today from Steve about the city getting involved in future parking structures.

With the impending sale of the Broadway/Kerr garage to Sandridge and the Century Center structure also being sold, that only leaves three city-owned parking structures.

My opinion is that it's time to build a could more and it's far easier for the city to do that than private developers, as they have all kinds of staff, expertise and even the right to use eminent domain to make these things happen.

Seems like the downtown garages are almost full and if we want to continue to attract new business, they've got to have their employees park somewhere.

http://newsok.com/could-changes-be-in-store-for-the-citys-involvement-in-downtown-parking-garages/article/3631497?custom_click=rss

A lot of us who pay for parking on our own dime are getting concerned about finding safe and relatively close parking. The people who run the Century Center garage still swear nothing is happening - Steve - do you have additional information? COTPA pulled this crap on us last time when we were booted from the West City Center - no information up front.
GSA insists that federal employees need a downtown presence, but no provisions are made for parking or park and ride. (Ok, I'll quit griping now and hope I can make it to January 2013 retirement!)

So far Sandridge hasn't kicked anyone out of the Broadway Kerr garage. In fact I got a nice surprise this week to see that they re-painted the parking spots along the inner walls and made them bigger. Thank God! Sandridge is now my favorite company. Until they decide to give us lowly non-Sandridge employees the boot that is.

Nice article today from Steve about the city getting involved in future parking structures.

With the impending sale of the Broadway/Kerr garage to Sandridge and the Century Center structure also being sold, that only leaves three city-owned parking structures.

My opinion is that it's time to build a could more and it's far easier for the city to do that than private developers, as they have all kinds of staff, expertise and even the right to use eminent domain to make these things happen.

Seems like the downtown garages are almost full and if we want to continue to attract new business, they've got to have their employees park somewhere.

http://newsok.com/could-changes-be-in-store-for-the-citys-involvement-in-downtown-parking-garages/article/3631497?custom_click=rss

The city should have some spaces so that a new business could come into downtown and there will be available parking. There should not just be enough parking...there should be more than enough.

A lot of us who pay for parking on our own dime are getting concerned about finding safe and relatively close parking. The people who run the Century Center garage still swear nothing is happening - Steve - do you have additional information? COTPA pulled this crap on us last time when we were booted from the West City Center - no information up front.
GSA insists that federal employees need a downtown presence, but no provisions are made for parking or park and ride. (Ok, I'll quit griping now and hope I can make it to January 2013 retirement!)

I don't believe the deal being contemplated would necessarily spell the end of you parking at the garage. At the very least I suspect either way you'll make it just fine through your retirement. I will also add things are about to get better, not worse for you and others like you.

I don't believe the deal being contemplated would necessarily spell the end of you parking at the garage. At the very least I suspect either way you'll make it just fine through your retirement. I will also add things are about to get better, not worse for you and others like you.

Steve - thanks for the ray of hope - I needed that! This construction is getting everyone down. Just stepping over the sleeping homeless people to get into the office is an adventure.

Construction isn't getting me down, it's getting me more excited. I also don't think there is a parking problem downtown.

^^agreed,I live downtown and NEVER have a problem finding a parking space,sometimes that space may be 1 or maybe even 2 blocks away from where I need to be but thats why I have these two things that have feet that are attached to my body!

Keep in mind as I say this that I was warning about this pain early on. So keep the faith... we're more than halfway there. I expect the worst of the pain will be done by the end of 2012.

Keep in mind as I say this that I was warning about this pain early on. So keep the faith... we're more than halfway there. I expect the worst of the pain will be done by the end of 2012.

I have to say, sometimes I wonder if a day will come that I will get off work and discover that there is no way out of downtown. : )

http://newsok.com/new-oklahoma-city-downtown-parking-garages-being-eyed-by-city/article/3631819

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-has-affordable-financing-options-for-parking-garages/article/3631798

I have to say, sometimes I wonder if a day will come that I will get off work and discover that there is no way out of downtown. : )

LOL @ OSUMom - I have that same fear!

And for those of you with two feet that can walk - congrats. Before my RA set in, I did also. When it's cold/wet, I hurt more. I rarely complain about it, but it just irritates the crap out of me when people judge others who are less abled than they are.

There is no accessible parking for handicapped employees or visitors to our building. I've seen an elderly man pushing his little wife in a wheelchair over rocks and bumpy asphalt in order to bring a box of tax records in to get assistance. We do not meet ADA or any other standards of accessibility right now - probably true of most buildings in CBD.

^^Lauri,I should have pointed out that if you are able,then it is easy to get around downtown.My Mother has Lupus and when She visits me downtown sometimes She has trouble parking close.I wasnt trying to be insensitive,and its a shame that the disabled get overlooked so much!

Hopefully changes that are part of project 180 will make it easier for everyone to get around downtown.

^^Lauri,I should have pointed out that if you are able,then it is easy to get around downtown.My Mother has Lupus and when She visits me downtown sometimes She has trouble parking close.I wasnt trying to be insensitive,and its a shame that the disabled get overlooked so much!

Sorry dmoor - I'm a bit sensitive - I used to be able to walk the entire tunnel at lunch every day. Until you're facing it or have a loved one who does, you don't know what it's like to be unable to get over a curb or leap a puddle.

There simply is no good reason for our agency to be located downtown - it's harder on the employees and especially difficult on the poor taxpayers where insult is added to injury by not only coming in for an audit, but also having to lug boxes of records for several block. That is, however, a rant for a different thread someday.

I think there is something to be said for the point that, generally speaking of course, urbanism is a significantly healthier environment.

There is no accessible parking for handicapped employees or visitors to our building. I've seen an elderly man pushing his little wife in a wheelchair over rocks and bumpy asphalt in order to bring a box of tax records in to get assistance. We do not meet ADA or any other standards of accessibility right now - probably true of most buildings in CBD.
The ADA has been in effect for 20 years now, there is no legitimate reason why a commercial building cannot meet ADA at this point. There has been more than enough time to spread the costs out over that period of time. I guess a DOJ lawsuit is the only think that will motivate some building owners.

I do agree that most agencies who deal with the general public should be better located away from pay lots and long walks. I think the Social Security office being located at Shepherd Mall is one of the better locations, it is somewhat centrally located near downtown, on a bus line and has plenty of free, accessible parking.

The ADA has been in effect for 20 years now, there is no legitimate reason why a commercial building cannot meet ADA at this point. There has been more than enough time to spread the costs out over that period of time. I guess a DOJ lawsuit is the only think that will motivate some building owners.

I do agree that most agencies who deal with the general public should be better located away from pay lots and long walks. I think the Social Security office being located at Shepherd Mall is one of the better locations, it is somewhat centrally located near downtown, on a bus line and has plenty of free, accessible parking.

I think she works in a government building which is exempted from ADA laws.

Wow, I was in the paper today!!! I guess they want to put a garage on my property and put another business out after 40 years..

Not necessarily. I'll be at Peacock for lunch tomorrow. Long story short - of all the POSSIBLE sites, most folks I talk to say your corner is the least likely to be chosen.

Not necessarily. I'll be at Peacock for lunch tomorrow. Long story short - of all the POSSIBLE sites, most folks I talk to say your corner is the least likely to be chosen.


Hopefully I will catch you tomorrow.. I will be in and out!!!

I have a couple questions I need to ask and maybe get verified..

I think she works in a government building which is exempted from ADA laws.

Government buildings are NOT exempt.

Government buildings are NOT exempt.

Strangely enough, there are some regulations in place that make a government-owned building exempt - but our building is leased space and has private business as well as three government agencies. The building owners blame the city or anyone else they can find.
Bottom line - handicapped employees and visitors to the building have to park two blocks away. If you are in a wheelchair or use a walker, you would have to have some major assistance to navigate from the parking to the building.
Walk the streets of the CBD now and imagine yourself in a wheelchair as you do. I'd love to see someone with the stones and the bread take on the cause.

Government buildings are NOT exempt.

Yes they are. They fall into an exclusion group classified as "under other regulations". I know this because I read it right before I made the post to be sure it was accurate. Even some leased buildings are exempt

Hopefully I will catch you tomorrow.. I will be in and out!!!

I have a couple questions I need to ask and maybe get verified..

I'll be there at noon.

Not necessarily. I'll be at Peacock for lunch tomorrow. Long story short - of all the POSSIBLE sites, most folks I talk to say your corner is the least likely to be chosen.

Is there a map of these sites and what do you think the top 3 or 4 are?

Is there a map of these sites and what do you think the top 3 or 4 are?

This reminds me of the CC site selection process.

Remember what happened to those top 3 or 4 sites? haha

I just hope wherever we o this we actually "wrap" the thing with something useful at ground level. There is interest on our streetcar committee on the whole "Park N' Ride" scenario thus the question.

Also, long with Reno/Walker fighting his site, I would suspect Dowelling would have a problem with his as well. Lol

Maybe the city snatching up lots for parking garages will get the squaters moving.

Wanted to paste this from Steve's article for future reference, as links are often broken over time.


Sites proposed were:
• Compress Avenue and Reno Avenue just west of the U-Haul building in Lower Bricktown.
• The block at the northwest intersection of Reno and Walker avenues (currently home to the Peacock restaurant).
• A long narrow block bordered by Dewey Avenue, Main Street and Shartel Avenue.
• The surface parking lot immediately south of City Hall.
• The corner of NW 10 and Robinson Avenue
• Mostly vacant land between Dewey Avenue, NW 5 and Walker Avenue.
• The corner of Hudson Avenue and Park Place.
• The Oklahoma City National Memorial surface parking lot at NW 5 and Robinson.
• NW 9 east of Broadway (across from the Iguana Mexican Grill).


Read more: http://newsok.com/new-oklahoma-city-downtown-parking-garages-being-eyed-by-city/article/3631819#ixzz1gcy08ha7

Is the site across from the Iguana where S&B is going in or west of that?

They are probably talking about the property that is between S&B and the RR tracks.

[QUOTE=Just the facts;491129]Maybe the city snatching up lots for parking garages will get the squaters moving.[/QUparking it should. First, the squatters may realize thE city could get their properties at lower appraised value. It takes inventory of lots off the market and reduces supply (raising prices and encouraging sale or development), and raises the value by increasing people traffic in the immediate area. Win for all, potentially.

Yes they are. They fall into an exclusion group classified as "under other regulations". I know this because I read it right before I made the post to be sure it was accurate. Even some leased buildings are exempt

Having worked for the government 29 years, I promise your wrong, but believe what you wish.

Having worked for the government 29 years, I promise your wrong, but believe what you wish.

From the ADA website run by the federal government.

http://www.ada.gov/q&aeng02.htm

The executive branch of the US federal government is exempt. Go down to 'miscellaneous' at the bottom.

From the ADA website run by the federal government.

http://www.ada.gov/q&aeng02.htm

The executive branch of the US federal government is exempt. Go down to 'miscellaneous' at the bottom.

Good thing the parking lot's / garages were talking about are City and Not Federal !!

But isn't JTF talking about the employer's responsibility to provide ADA acessible parking/sidewalks, not who owns the garage?

Having worked for the government 29 years, I promise your wrong, but believe what you wish.

All I can speak for is my 33 years of federal service and the fact that, when IRS decided to not fund handicapped parking for employees or taxpayers, I took it to arbitration and experienced the worst a$$-kicking of my union career.

At that time, we were leasing the entire building and no private companies were located there. T

The Rehab Act of 1974 does still apply to federal space, leased and owned, but the Americans with Disability Act does NOT apply in most instances where federal employees are the main tenant. The leased space considered "common use" (lobby, restrooms) are still subject to ADA rules, but someone has to complain.

Don't try to make this a logical set of rules. When you are dealing with GSA as a landlord, there's no such thing as logic.
Disclaimer - I can only speak to what I know personally in my IRS work. Can't speak to how other agencies deal.

Government buildings are NOT exempt.


Yes they are. They fall into an exclusion group classified as "under other regulations". I know this because I read it right before I made the post to be sure it was accurate. Even some leased buildings are exempt
Most of the government buildings and lease space that I have worked on for the past 20 years have had to be ANSI/ADA or TAS (Texas Accessibility Standards) compliant, most office type buildings are not exempt. There are a few specialized military buildings that had parts of them that were exempt but the majority of spaces where a person with disabilities needed to have access were accessible. We were required to design to local building codes. The days of most governmental entities excluding buildings from codes or standards because they want to has pretty much been long over.

The new OKC Federal Building is ADA compliant, the new IRS auditor offices in Austin to replace the one that was hit by the airplane are TAS complaint, we had to have a TDLR review by a RAS to get a building permit from the City of Austin.

For the love of Pete:

http://www.ada.gov/q&aeng02.htm


U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division

Americans with Disabilities Act
Questions and Answers

Q. Is the Federal government covered by the ADA?

A. The ADA does not cover the executive branch of the Federal government. The executive branch continues to be covered by title V of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibits discrimination in services and employment on the basis of handicap and which is a model for the requirements of the ADA. The ADA, however, does cover Congress and other entities in the legislative branch of the Federal government.

Now I can tell you first hand I work a lot with Sarbanes Oxley law and know for a fact that people who claim to be experts tell me all kinds of stuff I know not to be true (because I actually read Sarbanes-Oxley myself). They usually tell me that because either A) They don't want to do something, or B) They want to be paid extra for doing something that isn't actually required. I suspect the same thing is true in the construction industry with regards to ADA. The IRS, which is the subject of this sub-plot is a part of the Excutive branch - and thus - is not subject to ADA.

So, you are an accountant? Not an urbanist planner?

Not an account - just a New Urbanism Activist.

During my time with the City of OKC, anytime we did a remodel or new construction of a City owned building, it had to meet Federal ADA Guidelines.

Whether technically required or not, I don't remember working on a Fed building in the last few years that didn't require us to provide ADA compliant equipment.

During my time with the City of OKC, anytime we did a remodel or new construction of a City owned building, it had to meet Federal ADA Guidelines.

Fair enough - local and state governments are required to comply with ADA.

For the love of Pete:

http://www.ada.gov/q&aeng02.htm



Now I can tell you first hand I work a lot with Sarbanes Oxley law and know for a fact that people who claim to be experts tell me all kinds of stuff I know not to be true (because I actually read Sarbanes-Oxley myself). They usually tell me that because either A) They don't want to do something, or B) They want to be paid extra for doing something that isn't actually required. I suspect the same thing is true in the construction industry with regards to ADA. The IRS, which is the subject of this sub-plot is a part of the Excutive branch - and thus - is not subject to ADA.

This!
Thank you!

Accessible parking is not required adjacent to a building unless there is parking required by code. For most downtown office buildings, they don't have parking tied to a building so the only requirement is for whatever remote lot to be accessible and on an "accessible route" to the building. Most suburban office buildings have accessible parking because the parking is required by code, so it must be provided at a ratio determined by building, land use or zoning codes.

Like Rover stated, most federal buildings including the IRS are compliant, the only reason why I can think that the IRS building in OKC is not compliant is because I think it was built before 1991 when the ADA went into effect. Even though the IRS may be are technically excluded per the ADA statutes the city still has to grant a building permit for work done inside the building and most cities (and I know the State of Texas) would press for a reasonable accommodation and expects anything new or remodeled these days to meet ADA/TAS. The agency requesting exemption would have to demonstrate a need to not comply, I don't think most would request that anymore.

It is also one more reason why I think the ADA should be codified and enforced by code officials instead of all complaints having to go through the Department of Justice or the TDLR in Texas.

Believe me, between what I do and who I am married to (a public advocate for people with disabilities) I know more about the ADA than I really ever cared to know.

Yawn Yawn

Yawn Yawn

Not sure I understand. Do you find the idea of properly respecting and serving the disabled boring?

An additional comment -Enforcing ADA compliance can be done either through law enforcement or simple economics when it comes to private business. I.E. - if a business is non-compliant, pleople can choose not to do business with them.

With public buildings, "customers" don't always have a choice. Try getting off the IRS mailing list and see how that works for you.

And yes - the building was finished before ADA enactment. The owners of the building have made some areas accessible, but not all. We have one employee who is temporarily in a wheelchair and allowed to work at home for now. There is no way possible she could navigate Project 180 construction. We don't, however, allow a taxpayer the same reasonable accommodation.

Bottom line - parking downtown for those with disabilities is a nightmare. An entire segment of the population is being ignored and disrespected.

Not sure I understand. Do you find the idea of properly respecting and serving the disabled boring?

? nice one rover..

I'm going to jump in here and ignore the string of ad hominems in the last few posts. I have a very good feeling about the NW 10th and Robinson site, perhaps the best site, but that's the one that I've mostly been thinking over at this point.

Any other thoughts on that?

I'm going to jump in here and ignore the string of ad hominems in the last few posts. I have a very good feeling about the NW 10th and Robinson site, perhaps the best site, but that's the one that I've mostly been thinking over at this point.

Any other thoughts on that?

After trying to remember what was there, I finally gave up and drove by the 10th and Robinson area on my way to McBride today. Who would park there? What would constitute the customer base/users in that area? It seems so remote, unless I'm missing something major. Now - if it were a park and ride - hell, yeah!