development
|category1=Central Business District
|category2=Transportation
|category3=
|category4=
|
|project=
|address=Central Business District
|status=complete
|owner=
|cost=
|architect=Elliott & Associates
|start=
|finish=
|contractor=
|height=
|sq. feet=
|acerage=
|other=
|
|image=http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/underground1.jpg
|

Information & Latest News
Links
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_Underground)
List of Buildings Connected to The Underground (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Category:Undergound)
Gallery

Since their have been major renovations and an expansion in the last decade it is possible but I have not seen any proposals for it, it is really depend on what is going to happen at the Cox Center site if it even could tie into the existing network. If the building is kept then a connection(s) to the Hub, Arena, CC, CC hotel & Courtyard hotel at least could be fairly strait forward (if desired and funding identified), however if it is replaced it may not be wanted by the whoever builds their.

I was in the Underground when I went in for Jury Duty a while back and was really disappointed with it. Had heard there were all of these shops and restaurants and I only found one restaurant (that was only open for lunch). Walked for a ways (but not the full length of it, as I didn't see anything to encourage it. There needs to be a map or something showing what is down there (if anything). The only items of interest were the couple of historical photo displays. Its main purpose just seemed to be a way to get from some DT buildings to another without having to go into the elements.

I'm pretty sure there are no plans to extend the Underground -- that hasn't happened for decades. For example, the OKC Arena was not connected to the system even though they could have tapped into the Myriad section pretty easily.

I know Devon said they want to connect but I'm still not sure how that is going to happen. May just build an enclosed, elevated walkway to connect to the existing skywalks at Oklahoma and Corporate Towers.


When the Underground was most recently renovated, there were quite of few downtown advocates the didn't support it's extension or adding more access points at street level. Originally, the plans called for a new entrance in the plaza of Chase Tower, but the owners rejected it.

The general idea was that downtown needed more foot traffic and diverting it underground contributed to the dead atmosphere.

Pete is right; though there was a significant effort during the renovation to see whether the city should complete a tunnel under Hudson to the art museum. The tunnel is there - I've been in it. It would need an entrance on the Art Museum side, ventilation, lighting, finish-out inside. Gary Marrs was very interested in making it happen. But the art museum under the late Carolyn Hill was less enthused, and the overall leadership of downtown OKC seemed content with letting it go.
Devon sealed off a never opened tunnel under Sheridan Avenue between the gardens and their new headquarters. Another segment is sealed on both ends under Hudson between Stage Center and the gardens. Yet another tunnel between the convention center and the arena was converted into a causeway of sorts for piping related to the two facilities' heating and cooling operation.
So yes, the system was originally built to accommodate the very sort of expansion inquired about in this thread. But Pete is right -downtown leadership is not interested in creating more opportunities to kill off street life.

Wow. I think I said "pete is right" at least a dozen times in that comment....

Steve, great information as always.

Do you know how Devon plans to connect to the system? Larry Nichols was quoted as saying it was a priority.

Steve, great information as always.

Do you know how Devon plans to connect to the system? Larry Nichols was quoted as saying it was a priority.

Pete, I think they connect through the skywalks at Oklahoma Tower somehow, but that's pretty much it.

I'm pretty sure there are no plans to extend the Underground -- that hasn't happened for decades.

The connection between the Santa Fe parking garage, Renascence hotel and the Cox Center was built in 2002. I don't remember who it was that said it but a while back it was stated elevated skywalks were favored over tunnels if new extensions were done.

Yes, I should have said the Underground itself has not been expanded in decades but there have been a few skywalks added.

The Leadership Square / Oklahoma Tower / Corporate Tower / FNC skybridges were added in the mid-80's.

While 'The Concourse' was not exactly the most catchy name, renaming all of it five years ago 'The Underground' is a misnomer when almost half is skywalks or hallways of the buildings it connects.

Snowman, it was actually spelled "Conncourse". Don't know if I agree with all of it but this from Wiki:


Originally named the Conncourse, in honor of Oklahoma City banker Jack Conn[2], it was renamed the Underground after an extensive facelift conducted by architect Rand Elliott.[3] With the 2006 facelift, Rand Elliott has turned what had become a somewhat dated appearance of the old tunnels into a "walk-in work of art".[4]

I prefer to see escalators installed and the underground used for parking lots. Sure it is an expensive and ambitious plan, but after P180 is done, I hope we all will agree (including city officials) that we want all that wonderful new urban space to be along businesses, and not parking lots. The underground is unique and could be a great segue into such a program.

Sid, I see absolutely no way any part of the underground concourse could ever be used for parking.

Sid, I see absolutely no way any part of the underground concourse could ever be used for parking.

Yeah, it's simply not large enough. It's just an underground tunnel.

I could be wrong, but I think what Sid is trying to say is that downtown parking lots should mostly be below ground, and the Underground should be used to access those parking lots.

Regardless, thank you everyone for the quick and very informative answers to my questions.

I was one of the advocates to close the underground about 3 years ago. It makes downtown look dead, but others saw it as a asset.

Not sure how dead it makes it look. I was done there during the week, daytime (after lunch) and I ran across 1 other person the 30 min or so I was down there. May be an isolated instance and not the norm. Am sure it gets used more in inclement weather (in which case who would be on the streets anyway if they didn't have to be)?

I think it could be an asset if it was what it was even half of what it was hyped as being.

Yes, thanks Shawn. I assumed ljbab728's post was in jest and even after Patrick's post I am still not quite sure they are not just being silly. : )

Anyway, yes... the parking should not be in the tunnels but should be in lots built underground and connected to the tunnels. Escalators built within sidewalk ROW should service them.

Sid, no my post was not in jest. Your intent was not obvious from your original statement.

Underground projects like this also serve as a barrier to later development....you have to plan around them. Not to mention the fun they can cause for utility work. It's an obstacle (that's struggled it's entire life). It wasn't really ever done properly, otherwise it could have been very successful. It wasn't built out large enough to make it a real viable transport mechanism. They should have taken an example of the MMAC's tunnel out at the airport. That sucker is more than twice as wide and just about that much taller inside as well....you can drive a car in it. So you don't feel so squeezed in. It also serves as a backbone for telecomm and all sorts of things on the campus. It even evolved it's usefulness. Rather than spend several millions on running new networking lines in trenches at street level, they reused the old lamson tubes (bank air tubes) for the entire project. So having the tunnel also saved you millions of tax dollars on infrastructure work...which will also save you millions in another 15 years when it's time to upgrade the lines again....and again....and again.

Oh, and Mr Cotter Ranch's great wisdom on why he didn't want a new entrance at Chase Plaza...."the new design wouldn't match the current building's design". Because we all should stick to 70's ers international style shoe boxes and it's fugly arches. Heaven forbid we have progress in design.

Today, a building permit was issued for $600,000 to create a pedestrian walkway at 100 N. Harvey (address of east Galleria parking garage -- the one not owned by Devon).

I just talked to the architect that is handling this and he said that the walkway will actually be inside that east garage on the 3rd floor. They are taking some parking spaces and creating a link from the Devon complex through the structure and tying it into the skybridge that connects the east garage with Oklahoma Tower (pictured below):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/devonskybridge.jpg

I'm not a big fan of the Underground because it diverts from street life but there are two good things about it: 1) It provides linkage between almost all the major parking facilities and office buildings and 2) it's a place people can go walk when the weather is lousy.

I think it's fine in it's current form and could even see SandRidge wanting to connect it's campus to the lots it owns north of there on Broadway. But that would just serve as a protected walkway to and from parking, not some type of subterranean alternative to shops and restaurants on the street level.

I was one of the advocates to close the underground about 3 years ago. It makes downtown look dead, but others saw it as a asset.

Well as someone who works downtown, I would perfer not to be forced to walk the two blocks from my parking garage to my building in the rain just to keep traffic on the street during lousy weather. It is a farther walk to take the tunnels so don't fear. My co-workers and I only use it in wet or icy weather. Plus my building doesn't connect (darn it) so no matter what I have to surface to cross one street.

So do you all think it would be good to extend the underground tunnels?

I think the tunnels are good for linking parking garages to office buildings.

Beyond that, I think they should be minimized.

I think before expanding them, improve the existing ones. I haven't been through all of it but was down there 1 day for a while (think the color of the tunnels changed 2 or 3 times) and only came across 1 business (that was already closed for the day). This was about 3pm. I was expecting from what i had heard that there was all sorts of retail & eating etc. i did enjoy the couple of places with historical photos. I think they could be a great asset/attraction, but from what I saw, they are nothing more than connecting tunnels that can be used during inclement weather.

Devon (I think) used to have one hallway dedicated to student artwork. The lights are still there, pointing to the bare walls. It used to be somewhat interesting because they would change it out from time to time. Sometimes paintings, sometimes photographs. Usually from high schools or maybe even colleges. I was disappointed when they stopped putting the art up.

I really have a love-hate with the Underground. On one hand it's really cool (sometimes literally), and has tons of potential. But I think until there are 2-3 times as many people downtown it will always rob the street of life and momentum.

Larry, quite a bit was spent on improving the tunnels within the past few years, including the colored lighting you mention. The problem is that they pretty much only do function as connectors, with the added liability of robbing the street of life. I think the remodel was well done, but I'd hate to see much more done to develop them. We need to work more on improving things topside.

To expand the tunnels wouldn't you have to dig up the new project 180 streets to do so?

Popsy: good observation, was thinking along the same thing myself.

Urbanized: What was remodeled? From what I saw, maybe a fresh coat of paint, new carpeting and wrap-around color sleeves for the lighting? We had similar sleeves around the regular fluorescents in our light sensitive Plate room (yellow light) that cost $10/each. How much was spent to do the remoel? Wasn't Rand Elliott involved (or am I thinking of something else)? I had heard there was all of this underground retail and eating places (essentailly an underground mall) and like I said, only came across a single restaurant that was already closed for the day. No empty store fronts or anything to indicate that there ever had been or would be anything like I had heard existed there. That being the case, how much do largely vacant tunnels rob the street life? I encountered 1 other person when I was down there (mid afternoon on a weekday). While I can certainly imagine it being utilized in inclement weather, who would want to be on the streets then anyway?

If there are more places than the one I ran across, what & where are they? Is there a list somewhere? The color pamphlets that were available wasn't a directory at all.

I think the tunnels are good for linking parking garages to office buildings.

Beyond that, I think they should be minimized.

I would agree with that Pete. The whole concept of trying to make the tunnels a place people "want to go" is strange. I walk through there now and it feels like some kind of propaganda tunnel with the weird lighting and constant tv's playing that no one watches. I do wish they had done an underground connection of sorts to the library when it was build. Since no parking was built for the library and Devon has now bought the closest available parking, it isn't a place that is real easy to visit.

... I do wish they had done an underground connection of sorts to the library when it was build. Since no parking was built for the library and Devon has now bought the closest available parking, it isn't a place that is real easy to visit.

I don't visit the DT library often, but when I use it and I'm not in down via the Sooner Express, I park in the garage immediately north of the county bldg. It's a very short walk.

I don't visit the DT library often, but when I use it and I'm not in down via the Sooner Express, I park in the garage immediately north of the county bldg. It's a very short walk.

You obviously don't go on Mondays (Jury selection day) - at times there is no parking available at that location. There is also no daily parking there on the weekend.

Larry, the remodel was in 2007. It was around $2 million. I believe most of the funding came from the Business Improvement District (BID) funding through Downtown OKC. Rand did indeed oversee the design. You're right that most of the renovation was cosmetic; much of the old Conncourse was decrepit, including stained carpeting, bad lighting and paint jobs from the seventies.

There was a ton of lighting added; it wasn't a simple addition of colored tubing around existing fluorescents. The lighting was "themed" so that users could know at a glance which tunnel they were in simply by color. Some of the tunnels changed more dramatically than others. Some are privately owned, and so in some cases the owners chose to go along with the theme and in some they did not. The use of simple but dramatic colored lighting is a signature of Rand's and typical of many of his projects (see Red Prime Steak, for instance).

Additionally, the remodel included substantial wayfinding above and below ground, plus a number of flat panel televisions which now stream news programming (purchased when flat panels were pricey -- whoops!).

Here's a DOKC page on the remodel (http://www.downtownokc.com/Default.aspx?tabid=58), and here's a map of The Underground (http://www.downtownokc.com/Portals/0/PDF/UnderGround%20brochure%202010.pdf).

If you only saw a single restaurant, you obviously did not make it through the entirety of "The Underground." I can think of probably a couple dozen places that are "connected." Much of the system is above ground, and a regular user would view all of it as the same system, and would include restaurants in building basements as being a part of that system. There are also a number of banks, at least one barber shop, and several convenience-type stores. There are significant closed storefronts, but many of them have been sheetrocked over or otherwise obscured and you wouldn't necessarily know they are there.

Regarding people using it, if you include the whole tunnel system and go through it around lunch time or at the beginning or end of the business day, you will get an idea of the number of people it takes off the street. It is not an inconsequential number.

Urbanized: Thanks for the info. As i stated I have only been down there the one time (on a Monday, after I was dismissed from Jury Duty around 3 pm) and decided to check it out. Starting with the Courthouse tunnel (think it was Red, walked along for a while and think I encountered Green & Blue tunnels? After walking however far it was and only finding the one closed business, it was disappointing. Then turned around and went back to my starting point.

I did notice your statement that much of the "Underground" system is "above ground". What? Well no wonder, I was looking in the wrong place. LOL

On edit: Also appreciate the links. Looking at the map, I clearly didn't make it all the way from one end to another. Is there a map showing what businesses are in the tunnels? Without that info, there didn't seem much reason to continue walking without a destination in mind, with no real hope of finding anything else. The map shows what the tunnels connect to above ground, but my interest lied in what was in the, you know, "Underground"

Well there aren't really a lot of businesses underground. There are still only a handful of restaurants down there, and most of them close after lunch since they focus on the business b'fast/lunch crowd (think Jimmy's Egg). So don't expect to see a large number of places on each side...there are really only a few here and there, and they really aren't uh...fancy. They're more of the mom and pop white and red checkered table clothe or weird chineese food kind of places....think bad small mall food court. But good luck getting anyone else in there though. I really feel like a Camille's type of place would be a good fit. Minimal footprint for the shop, not much in the way of needs for the kitchen, easily made to-go, etc.

Elliot is a minimalist too. So when you look at one of his projects, you can't expect a huge amount of stuff in there. But besides that, you're sort of limited in what you can do to renevate a concrete tube. This renovation could have easily been on TLC....say Trading Spaces "change everything...for $1K". But if you had ever been in there before, it's a VAST improvement. Pre-renovation, it was nasty in there. The carpet was missing in chunks or was falling apart. There was a weird smell...probably from the carpet. The walls were gross too. Parts of it were really dark. It just wasn't a good place to be...and they thought about just closing the whole thing. One thing the colored lighting does it mask some of the bad concrete work so it melds together in the flushed lighting. It's cosmetic, but as mentioned before, it also serves to designate each leg of the tunnel.

I regularly encountered a large number of people interested in the Underground when I worked downtown. Unfortunately, the Underground suffers from the single worst map Downtown OKC offers... which also happens to be the best map of the Underground... sigh.

Even with the map, downtown visitors easily get lost. Larry OKC, asked if there was a map with businesses... nope. Although there are only a handful of restaurants... there are several other handy services for downtown visitors including barbershops, shoeshines, banks, a post office, and at least a half dozen vacant spots. But to explain to a guest how to get there... forget it.

The whole redevelopment would have been at least 50% more successful had they had a decent map first... and maybe limit the EIGHT COLOR color-coded way-finding theory!!!! I mean really? I originally imagined 3 colors... Cox to Kerr...Broadway to Harvey...Kerr to the Memorial... if color-coded at all. That makes sense. Currently, when the colored lights change with every slight jog down there your perception of space and time are seriously affected! LOL I still and never COMPLETELY sure which direction I'm headed!

And besides the obvious missed-opportunity with the subway-like entrance at Park/Broadway... had the the First National Arcade and the lobby of Leadership Square been better integrated into how the whole thing flowed... we could have had a very nice little pedestrian circuit for the heat... or cold... or heat... or ice... or wind... or HEAT!!!

Personally, I've found that some downtown visitors really enjoy the idea (completely made-up story) that it serves as a shared tornado shelter for downtowners. I've honestly told that to more than one frightened business traveler during storm season... to their relief.

actually platemaker Urban Neighbors has talked with DOKC and has an agreement that the underground will remain open later to be used as a tornado shelter on those horrible weather days

This thread is kind of fortuitous. I have been wondering how many people think we ought to put in a true "entrance" to the Underground from sidewalk level at a streetcar stop. With Sandridge demolishing two buildings that had direct connections in their basements to the tunnels, it would not be hard to put a direct entrance to this thing on the new plaza on both the Northbound Robinson and Southbound Broadway streetcar lines.

I don't know how recall it, but Rand Elliot had designed a pretty cool above ground entrance enclosed in a "glass box." In speaking with Sandridge representatives, they are intrigued by all this idea although I am unsure as to where it is all going.

I totally agree with the "love-hate" relationship that people describe with the tunnels. I have it myself. But there are people who use it regularly and it does not seem as if it is going away. The most comprehensive connection to this "transit spine" we are creating from the Underground is by using the First National to perhaps reach stops on both streets from the tunnel while minimizing how far would have to walk during inclement weather.

IMO. the only thing the "tunnel" should be used for is access to parking garages in inclement weather.

RC, And from what limited part I saw and what others have posted, that is what it is...not some sort of Underground mall or attraction

If you are ever in the area of Kerr Broadway during the day when the tunnel would be open go down into the tunnel entrance there. The city, in an attempt to bring attention to that entrance (or so we were told by the artist) put that white big creature thing right there. But what's kinda neat, in a creepy way, are the tenticles coming off it and going down the stairway into the tunnel. It's neat to see once, if you are in the area.

That was done by Stan Carroll, one of three people commissioned by Downtown OKC (I think) to make art projects in an effort to get people interested in the newly renovated underground.

The one section where they were hanging art was/is called the Invited Artist Gallery and was designed for and used to hang art for more than just students. Sorry to hear it isn't being used now if that is the case. Like the tunnels in general, the gallery is somewhat of an odd space, hard to get to if you don't frequent the buildings and don't know where it is. It is also not that secure for art IMO, even with the full time roaming guards.

I knew of several art openings there when the tunnels first opened, but never attended any, for the reasons listed above mostly. Then I quit hearing about them so perhaps it was given up by whomever was curating them, OVAC, IIRC.

Location: http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/view-place-1287-invited-artists-gallery-oklahoma-city-underground.html

And note it also suffers from what any business located down there suffers from, it's closed on evenings and weekends.

It's closed so that homeless folks don't try to live down there again. Trust me, although we sort of complain now, we forget how much we complained BEFORE the early hours were placed on the thing. You want it closed. The businesses that operator down there aren't targetting anyone but daytime workers, so why would they even want to be open later anyway....hence why they close hours before the tunnel closes. It's not like they are open until the tunnel closes or anything.

It's an unsupervised area with plenty places to "camp out" if you wanted to. It's not something you want to have happen folks.

I've never been in the concourse before. Does it have anything other than hallways in it?

While this will surely be one of those dreams that don't come true, I had an interesting dream last night, that was cool as heck.

So I went into this concourse below OKC, it was carpeted and such. However it had like meeting rooms and a movie auditorium, where one could watch a movie. I had my daughter with me, and I kept thinking "man this is so awesome. All of this underneath a city." Just when I thought it couldn't get any cooler, there was a flight of steps that went even further below ground level. Before I could reach the steps to go down, I woke up. :(

Again, I am not saying this is one of those dreams that would come true, as I seriously doubt that. However, for some reason, I have been fascinated about what kinds of things are built underground.

I would love to know if our city has anything underground, other than a wealth of tunnels, or if any other city does? Any pics?

It would have been so awesome, if someone designed an underground shopping complex and or movie theatre, just because it would be different.

At one time OKC's own Chinatown was underneath part of downtown. Been several stories over the years about this that I found interesting. And this is fact.

I would love to know if our city has anything underground, other than a wealth of tunnels, or if any other city does? Any pics?

It would have been so awesome, if someone designed an underground shopping complex and or movie theatre, just because it would be different.

It's been a while since I've been to the underground concourse, but it does have several eating establishments. Can't remember what all was down there, but I do remember a couple of chinese restaurants.

Also, if you go to to certain foreign countries like Japan or China, they have giant underground concourses that have tons of eating and shopping establishments. They're mainly built in conjunction with the subway systems however. Can't remember if there was underground shopping directly below their central business districts.

Lots of U.S. cities have tunnel systems and subterranean shopping arcades (Atlanta, Los Angeles) but they have all struggled, including the one in OKC. Most of these were hatched in the 60's and 70's and were ill-conceived. Apart from subways where you don't have much choice, it turns out people don't like to spend much time underground in dark places.

One exception in North America is Toronto and their PATH system, which is 17 miles long and thriving:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(Toronto)


Montreal has a huge system as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City,_Montreal)

OKC would be well advised to close their system down and stop adding to it. We need to put people on the sidewalk and not in long elevated/underground hallways. The only places I have seen them 'work' is where they are connected to subway stations.

In addition to Montreal and Toronto, Philadelphia has a very extensive system.

At one time OKC's own Chinatown was underneath part of downtown. Been several stories over the years about this that I found interesting. And this is fact.

Wow, very interesting indeed! I have never heard this until you mentioned it. Here are a couple of links that tell a little more about it:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/vintage/1.chinatown.htm

http://webinfo2.mls.lib.ok.us/okimages/okimages.asp?WCI=ViewEssay&WCU=000000071

You have to hit the refresh button for the second link. It'll bring up a pretty good story on the history of the Chinese underground.

There were lots of people against the last modest renovations but if the system is going to be there, might as well paint it and replace the carpet from 30 years ago.

Recently, SanRidge said they would be reopening the section that connects to their tower. And of course, Project 180 is paying to connect Devon Tower with an enclosed walkway through the City Center East parking garage.

Part of the renovation was to have included more access points from the street, with signage.

But that was largely nixed because a lot of people felt it was a bad idea to encourage foot traffic to head underground rather than stay at street level. There was to be a prominent entrance on Broadway adjacent to Chase Tower, for example.

I actually used the system quite a bit when I worked downtown in the 80's. It protects you from the elements and also allows you to circumvent street lights.

The heart of the system is the First National Arcade which is more of less the center of it all. For a while, the arcade was really thriving with Harold's, Orbach's and other nice mall-quality stores. That seemed to feed the entire network as there were many more restaurants and even shops down below in the 70's and 80's.

I remember Liberty Bank had operations down there when they occupied what is now Chase Tower; perhaps even teller windows?

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6100/6247937991_ac5a497f1f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45334555@N07/6247937991/)
OKC Conncourse Late 1970's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/45334555@N07/6247937991/) by tikitonite (http://www.flickr.com/people/45334555@N07/), on Flickr

I prefer signage right in the walkway so pedestrians can see them easily. Many cities actually put street names inside the concrete in brass letters to make it easy for pedestrians to see where they are.

Not to change the subject but here are the pedestrian oriented street signs in downtown Jax. And that grey area in the middle of the interesection is pretty rough which slows down traffic.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/IMAG0114.jpg

I can easily agree with the desire to see more street traffic. But until it is filled with sand, I want to see it easier to find.

Filled with sand or not - I hope no one finds it. It is not part of symbiotic relationship with the sidewalk. It is actually killing the host. Sandridge spends untold millions on a new corporate plaza - and then connects to the underground.

...I remember Liberty Bank had operations down there when they occupied what is now Chase Tower; perhaps even teller windows?
Still there; now they're Chase teller windows. Also a couple of glass-front offices with lending/customer service staff. Of course, teller windows are not used nearly as much now so most windows are unmanned. Bancfirst also has teller windows in the Underground, BOK if I remember right (I don't make it to that part often).

Removing the underground to add to street traffic is not logical, is unreasonable, and easy to say if you don't work downtown or even live in OKC. Really its almost selfish to vie for that if you dont work down here. It is a very nice luxury to have when conditions outside are inclement. I'm sorry but I and likely most of downtown would much rather walk underground when it's raining or temperatures are too low or high (wearing a suit to work everyday gets painful when it's 110 with 80% humidity). If it wasn't already there, I wouldn't suggest building one but as long as it is, it would be stupid to stop using it.

Boom goes the dynamite!

Yep - it never gets hot, humid, or rains here in Jacksonville. I guess that is why we manage to live without an underground.

Like I said, there is a difference between not ever having a tunnel system and some hardcore urban design proponents deciding it's a good idea to close one that is already in place and heavily used just for the sake of improving street traffic.

That's great that you don't have a tunnel system in Jacksonville but we do and many people enjoy using it. if you like walking outside during extreme heat, humidity, and rain, that is your perogative, but it is very convienient to have the option to avoid it.

Again, it's very easy to condem something you never use from afar, but those that use it probably disagree with you.