I say let's get the MAPS3 park built! I can see a lot of high rise apartments going in around that..

Amazon.com plans for 3 new skyscrapers in downtown Seattle, totaling 3 million square feet! Wow! I'm jealous!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-16/amazon-s-plans-for-new-towers-may-swell-seattle-market-by-7-.html

Me and HOT ROD can provide pictures. :P

yea, that would be nice, forgot you were in Seattle now...lucky you

Do you live close to the proposed skyscrapers?

Nice, periodic updates and pics re this project would be nice. Looks like this is the biggest office development to hit downtown Seattle in decades...

Amazon.com plans for 3 new skyscrapers in downtown Seattle, totaling 3 million square feet! Wow! I'm jealous!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-16/amazon-s-plans-for-new-towers-may-swell-seattle-market-by-7-.html

All 3 buildings within a block of the South Lake Union Streetcar.

What I find amazing in that Bloomberg article is that even without Amazon, 17 million square feet of office space is in the planning stages in Downtown Seattle. Think about that - that's the equivalent of 10+ Devon Towers. Before Amazon's 3 million square feet is even accounted for.

I've been to Seattle twice and have been very impressed with their downtown. But I have to admit, I really thought NYC and Chicago were about the only American cities capable of that degree of downtown development all at once.

Well Sid, I agree. But whether it's 17 million square feet in 10 tall towers or 17 million square feet in 100 5-story buildings, the simple fact is that there is obviously demand for a lot of space in Seattle.

I've been to Seattle twice and have been very impressed with their downtown. But I have to admit, I really thought NYC and Chicago were about the only American cities capable of that degree of downtown development all at once.

Keep in mind... "planning stages" is a very loose term. It seems highly unlikely that a majority of that 17 million square feet would actually go forward anywhere near the same time frame.

Austin just doesn't stop! WOW!

$500 Million Development Proposed for Downtown Austin

Two 30 Story Residential High Rises
17 Story Hotel
28 Story Office Tower

http://www.statesman.com/business/developers-lay-out-500-million-vision-for-old-2255598.html

Wow! Go Austin!

For fun, replace Austin with Oklahoma City in the article as you read it.

For fun, replace Austin with Oklahoma City in the article as you read it.

If I did that it would mean they would have to find a new location for the convention center because land costs would break the bank.


The developer would pay the city $42.4 million for the 4.4-acre site,

Looks like Victory Park in Dallas may be picking up steam with new office tower and apartments, with this being the first development in 5 years, good deal.

http://www.greenbuildingnews.com/articles/2012/04/11/victory-park-dallas-see-new-office-building

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/commercial-real-estate/headlines/20120215-new-office-tower-apartment-projects-in-works-at-dallas-victory-park.ece

Why do they feel they have to surround every building with landscaping making it a monolithic tower in a park?

Why do they feel they have to surround every building with landscaping making it a monolithic tower in a park?
The landscape reviewer at the city needs to get his two cents in also.....

If I did that it would mean they would have to find a new location for the convention center because land costs would break the bank.

I was just about to say that. This looks like exactly the kind of development that I was anticipating after the big announcement from Fred Hall. Instead, we're getting a convention center.

We traded this:
http://www.statesman.com/multimedia/dynamic/01406/032312_green_1406677c.jpg

For this:
http://npaper-wehaa.com/pub-files/1218117144489afe1821058/pub/Oklahoma-Gazette-05-16-2011/lib/13055919754dd1c0a7cbe2c.jpg

How are you guys not as livid as I am?

I was just about to say that. This looks like exactly the kind of development that I was anticipating after the big announcement from Fred Hall. Instead, we're getting a convention center.

We traded this:
http://www.statesman.com/multimedia/dynamic/01406/032312_green_1406677c.jpg

For this:
http://npaper-wehaa.com/pub-files/1218117144489afe1821058/pub/Oklahoma-Gazette-05-16-2011/lib/13055919754dd1c0a7cbe2c.jpg

How are you guys not as livid as I am?

I am merely very disappointed - no sense being livid about something you cannot change. I agree 100% with you as far as what I had envisioned for that site. I even got the idea from the city's own Core to Shore concept. There is no way the Ford site is better for a CC than putting it across the boulevard from the arena and adjacent to Shields and the BNSF viaduct.

Just shows consistency in settling for adequate when we have the opportunity to be great. Reminds me of the boulevard / viaduct / Market Circle debate......I think the value of the extra effort (and expense) of more thoughtful redevelopment will be very apparent in 15 - 20 years if we are stuck with what it seems we are getting.

Downtown Raleigh keeps pushing:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/22/2153749/luxury-high-rise-apartment-project.html

1869

Why do they feel they have to surround every building with landscaping making it a monolithic tower in a park?
The landscape reviewer at the city needs to get his two cents in also.....

Now that I know what Radian Cites and Radiant Towers are I answered my question. What depresses me the most is that every failed international architecture/planning style seems to find a home in downtown OKC. Why do we keep buying into this crap?

Just shows consistency in settling for adequate when we have the opportunity to be great. Reminds me of the boulevard / viaduct / Market Circle debate......I think the value of the extra effort (and expense) of more thoughtful redevelopment will be very apparent in 15 - 20 years if we are stuck with what it seems we are getting.

It's just frustrating, because it's systemic. Our planners and leaders are just burnt out and don't seem to care anymore.

It's just frustrating, because it's systemic. Our planners and leaders are just burnt out and don't seem to care anymore.

just because our planners and leaders have different ideas/opinions than you do does NOT mean that they are burnt out/don't care

I think it is systemic, but for different reasons. I'll bet the recent letter writing campaing that OKC Talk has got going re: the boulevard is just what they want and need to hear. They're the horse and we're driving the carriage. Without our input, they plod along letting the ruts lead them.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying that there aren't burnt out ones that don't care and I'm not saying that there aren't great ones out there with a vision. I'm just sure that it's great to hear from your constituents about something meaningful that can be accomplished ... other than mud in Gaillardia or train whistles.

Downtown KC 23 floor apartment tower proposal.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/20/3668134/cordish-plans-70-million-downtown.html

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/06/20/22/55/175P8C.Em.81.jpeg

My favorite part is the tiny plot of land it will take. Great use of a small parking lot.
http://goo.gl/maps/silU

I simply do not understand why Oklahoma City never seems to get residential proposals of this quality/size/scope...?

True, but it's also a very positive thing that we have a critical mass coming around 4-5 floors, with a handful of 10+ floor projects. You really don't need much taller to build a great city.


just because our planners and leaders have different ideas/opinions than you do does NOT mean that they are burnt out/don't care

I would argue they're burnt out for reasons other than disagreeing with me. For instance, has Mick checked out of the hotel already? How did the engineers regain control over everything? How understaffed is Planning? How many great folks has the City lost lately? They've gotten burn out, and now we try and excoriate them for every little mistake downtown, which doesn't help I'm sure. Police is getting 20 new positions and in line for another 200 next year, but what about 20 new planners? Maybe even a few civil engineers, too.

I was just about to say that. This looks like exactly the kind of development that I was anticipating after the big announcement from Fred Hall. Instead, we're getting a convention center.

We traded this:
http://www.statesman.com/multimedia/dynamic/01406/032312_green_1406677c.jpg

For this:
http://npaper-wehaa.com/pub-files/1218117144489afe1821058/pub/Oklahoma-Gazette-05-16-2011/lib/13055919754dd1c0a7cbe2c.jpg

How are you guys not as livid as I am?

I agree. My heart aches when I think about that space being used for a convention center. I still shake my head and wonder.

I simply do not understand why Oklahoma City never seems to get residential proposals of this quality/size/scope...?

I don't understand it either, even cities smaller than OKC have modern residential towers going up, cities like Raleigh, Salt Lake City, and even Omaha had one proposed at one point (Wall Street Tower). Even Little Rock, AR has River Market Tower, www.rivermarkettower.com, and I am like really, we can't get one? I am not saying anything like the Museum Tower in Dallas, or The Austonian in Austin, but something like 15-20 stories would be nice.

I don't understand it either, even cities smaller than OKC have modern residential towers going up, cities like Raleigh, Salt Lake City, and even Omaha had one proposed at one point (Wall Street Tower). Even Little Rock, AR has River Market Tower, www.rivermarkettower.com, and I am like really, we can't get one? I am not saying anything like the Museum Tower in Dallas, or The Austonian in Austin, but something like 15-20 stories would be nice.

Land is too cheap.

Those cities have smaller, condensed downtowns. Also probably have less surface lots. Making available surface area smaller, which drives development vertical. OKC has a huge downtown. Very spread out.

Downtown Omaha and Little Rock condensed? I don't think they are no more condensed than OKC?

UrbanNebraska whatever happened to Wall Street Tower? That would have been a fine building for downtown Omaha, 32 Story residential condominium:

1879

Don't confuse condensed with urban density, necessarily. Perhaps compact would be a better word; the total land area of what would be considered downtown is much smaller and focused. In OKC you have many square miles of downtown proper. Most of it underutilized.

EDIT: and we are about to grow that even more with Core to Shore.

I simply do not understand why Oklahoma City never seems to get residential proposals of this quality/size/scope...?

We still have a lot of empty lots and half utilized buildings here that need to (and are) be redeveloped before new spec construction can begin. Quality over quantity.

Plus, do not underestimate the so/so record of high end for-sale housing in downtown. Even though high end rentals are doing better post-real estate crash, there is simply not a long track record to base financing off. Its not a coincidence that Level and the Edge are being developed by local-only companies.

Wallstreet Tower fell victim to the recession, the city wanting a bigger tower, and IMO a pretty poor development team. The developers had never built from scratch, only rehabs in Omaha and KC. The city traded a lot across the street for UP to build a new HQ on and then the city tore down UP's old HQ on the tax payers dime THEN sold the entire city block to the developer for a buck. All to insure it got done. The developers couldn't secure the amount of units the banks wanted it pre-sold before they would sign the dotted line since it was a first for new construction for the developer. So their idea was cut the units in half, then it will be pre-sold enough!
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd24/joeshawphotos/Picture10.png

They did that literally right before the bubble burst in 2008 and people started pulling out of their pre sales and it was doomed. With everything the city gave up for the property it really is a sore subject, and the lot is a HUGE eyesore and is for sale now.

The one tiny redeeming light from the entire mess was the Hyatt Place that was supposed to be in the skyscraper took their fate in their own hands and recently had a ground breaking for an 11 floor hotel smack in the middle of the Old Market.

Stings to miss on what would of been the 3rd tallest in the city, though. Especially when the city turned down a more modest proposal that had funding lined up.

... Especially when the city turned down a more modest proposal that had funding lined up.

That sounds familiar. I wish more people understood the "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" phrase. Which by the way means there is only a 33% chance of being better off.

I don't understand it either, even cities smaller than OKC have modern residential towers going up, cities like Raleigh, Salt Lake City, and even Omaha had one proposed at one point (Wall Street Tower). Even Little Rock, AR has River Market Tower, www.rivermarkettower.com, and I am like really, we can't get one? I am not saying anything like the Museum Tower in Dallas, or The Austonian in Austin, but something like 15-20 stories would be nice.

Rick Dowell will be your savior, I understand he is going to build something in that range along Walker once he finishes renovating the Dowell Center - but that project is going to take a couple more years. I have also heard rumors of a few more significant mid-rise hotels, and a tall residential project sometime before Dowell's (so possibly an announcement soon).

Downtown Oakland starting to come to life, couple 20 story towers, and then a larger one in the works, good deal.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-Making-Big-Changes-Highrise-office-2709668.php

Rick Dowell will be your savior, I understand he is going to build something in that range along Walker once he finishes renovating the Dowell Center - but that project is going to take a couple more years. I have also heard rumors of a few more significant mid-rise hotels, and a tall residential project sometime before Dowell's (so possibly an announcement soon).

Spartan, any clue as to where the possible residential project before Dowell's might be located?

This is a little odd to ask on an OKC forum, but does anyone happen to know if the 5 Allen Center in Houston is still on schedule to be built soon?

This is a little odd to ask on an OKC forum, but does anyone happen to know if the 5 Allen Center in Houston is still on schedule to be built soon?

I think its currently on hold.

However, I know Hines had announced they are going to build a new skyscraper on a current parking lot next to their BG Group Place, but wanted to secure tenant first, before they start turning dirt and ordering cranes...

Houston has been focused on a lot of high rise development outside of the urban core, and residential. BG Group Place was just completed last year, and what its first major skyscraper constructed downtown in a while, but I think things are starting to heat up in downtown Houston...

MDot,

If you are interested in following urban development in some new, fresh cities that will keep you interested, besides Austin and Charlotte. I suggest you follow Nashville and Raleigh, they are about to have a boom!

Downtown Oakland starting to come to life, couple 20 story towers, and then a larger one in the works, good deal.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-Making-Big-Changes-Highrise-office-2709668.php

That article is a little dated - the Mayor Jerry Brown is now governor (again).

I think its currently on hold.

However, I know Hines had announced they are going to build a new skyscraper on a current parking lot next to their BG Group Place, but wanted to secure tenant first, before they start turning dirt and ordering cranes...

I heard about that. Some have speculated that's the 5 Allen Center, but no one can say that for sure.

MDot,

If you are interested in following urban development in some new, fresh cities that will keep you interested, besides Austin and Charlotte. I suggest you follow Nashville and Raleigh, they are about to have a boom!

Thanks for the heads up, G. I'll start looking at them.

Anyone else seen that downtown Boise is booming?

New tallest for the city, 352 feet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/boisebro/8thmainrend1.png

And JUMP Boise, a huge completely public space downtown with meeting space, studios for classes like dance and cooking ect, and amphitheater and a new park. Really impressive space.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/7446081246_09e1092d3c_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8162/7446080912_401c1aff2a_c.jpg

Gee what does that JUMP thing remind me of... :rolleyes:

Spartan, any clue as to where the possible residential project before Dowell's might be located?

Along the dead patch of Walker between Arts District and Plaza Court. We are probably talking 5 years out though, and that's with good market conditions.

edit: Oh, you meant a potential announcement before Dowell. I have no idea if it's a legit development at this point so I don't think blabbing about it will help.

Anyone else seen that downtown Boise is booming?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7251/7446081246_09e1092d3c_c.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8162/7446080912_401c1aff2a_c.jpg

Now, if our Stage Center looked like that, we'd have a whole other story on our hands!

Now, if our Stage Center looked like that, we'd have a whole other story on our hands!

That is what I was thinking.

I heard about that. Some have speculated that's the 5 Allen Center, but no one can say that for sure.

I can say for sure that the Hines building is NOT 5 Allen Center. ;-) Allen Center is owned by Brookfield. If/when 5 Allen Center is built, it will be built by Brookfield. The Hines site and expected upcoming tower is on Main Street, far removed from Allen Center.

I can say for sure that the Hines building is NOT 5 Allen Center. ;-) Allen Center is owned by Brookfield. If/when 5 Allen Center is built, it will be built by Brookfield. The Hines site and expected upcoming tower is on Main Street, far removed from Allen Center.

Thanks for the correction/information. I was skeptical about that, but had no idea who owned the Allen Centers. I was also hoping 5 Allen Center and the upcoming tower were separate buildings.

Now, if our Stage Center looked like that, we'd have a whole other story on our hands!

Still, you have to admit that seeing such a modern replica, and a modern example of what could be, is absolutely sensational. Tracey Zeeck should throw away those crappy renderings that Rees did and just adopt this Boise thing lol.

Still, you have to admit that seeing such a modern replica, and a modern example of what could be, is absolutely sensational. Tracey Zeeck should throw away those crappy renderings that Rees did and just adopt this Boise thing lol.

I second this.

Also, how does Boise develop a nice headquarters for a bank and we still can't get MidFirst to move downtown into something similar? Just boggles the mind.

I second this.

Also, how does Boise develop a nice headquarters for a bank and we still can't get MidFirst to move downtown into something similar? Just boggles the mind.

What boggles the mind is how anyone in Oklahoma City could sit in the shadow of the most spectacular recently-constructed office building in America and be jealous of Boise's 16-story bank building (which, incidentally, will be the tallest building to be built in Boise since 1978 and will at long last fill in the "Boise Hole".) The building will be a great addition to Boise, but OKC has no reason to be jealous or frustrated.

It's not jealousy because a bank built a headquarters in Boise, it's wondering why OKC's development doesn't seem to be as infectious as it appears to be in many other smaller cities, ala Boise, Omaha, Des Moines.

Downtown is seen by most suburbanites and country folks as an entertainment place only, and where you go to court to pay your traffic tickets. Until downtown is recognized in mass as a community, and starts to function like one, you won't have a lot of large, nice projects. Not to say we don't have any or haven't had any. Ours just seem watered down relative to other developments in smaller cities.

We are almost at the tipping point, but I don't think we have reached it quite yet.

It's not jealousy because a bank built a headquarters in Boise, it's wondering why OKC's development doesn't seem to be as infectious as it appears to be in many other smaller cities, ala Boise, Omaha, Des Moines.

Seriously? Take a look around Oklahoma City. You apparently are not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's not jealousy because a bank built a headquarters in Boise, it's wondering why OKC's development doesn't seem to be as infectious as it appears to be in many other smaller cities, ala Boise, Omaha, Des Moines.

OKC is considerably ahead of these cities in terms of current urban development. Even leaving out Devon, OKC has residential projects like Level, Edge, The Hill. The NBA is huge. Larger convention space than any of those cities, much more high rise momentum with many very likely vertical additions. As well as much closer to the street car.

Cities always look more impressive from the outside. I would be beside myself if Omaha was on OKC's development level right now. You guys have lots of complaints to make sure it gets done right, and rightfully so do it right the first time so there doesn't need to be another "urban renewal" in 25 years. But there is no denying the sheer scale of projects in OKC right now.